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the only thing i find a little weird is that the trumpet has 4 vaulves instead of 3. My question is it hard to learn to play when you already play the trumpet, ive been playing for four years now but i would like to see the piccolo trumpet and learn to play it but is it harder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.131.2 ( talk • contribs)
It is quite natural to use the fourth valve when playing a low "f" as you will not be able to play the note otherwise!!!! Regards "Scott LaFata"
Well, 70.123.131.2, I haven't had my piccolo for very long yet. But so far, it has been a delight to learn, having played Bb trumpet for many years. Because of the smaller piping, I find I have to blow much harder in the piccolo to produce sound. Having different leadpipes is incredibly useful. Compared to a Bb trumpet, it is definitely harder to play, but well worth it. The fingerings are no problem at all. On a Bb trumpet, the chromatic scale from F# below middle C to high C, is identical to the piccolo's F# below high C to double high C fingering. (Above that is a matter of chops, not fingering.) Going down from F# is a matter of goofing around for a few minutes to figure out which ones work. I haven't figured out how to play middle C in tune yet, on the piccolo. There seems to be a complete octave of "pedal tones" below that (no semi tones?) that sound really awful in terms of tonal quality. Should this page have a range chart similar to the one over on Trumpet? A piccolo fingering chart (like the one on Trumpet might help, too.) -- Connel MacKenzie - wikt 04:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
From main article: "A popular term to emerge among trumpet players is "Hardenberger Range". It generally refers to anything above a C on piccolo trumpet."
The phrase "Hardenberger Range", is not a widely used term amongst trumpet players, due to a recent poll results indicate that 90% have never even heard of the phrase used in this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardenberger ( talk • contribs)
Shouldn't this article have some references other than another Wikipedia article? Otherwise, this is just an extra page with the same information as the main trumpet page. Daduke104 ( talk) 03:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)Daduke104
The Maurice Andre site has some nice pics and video, but is very badly written (indecipherable grammar, gushing fandom). The other site listed is basically advice on shopping for piccolo trumpets. They both have some redeeming value, but there are WP:NOT issues here. - Special-T ( talk) 13:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I still think the Andre site is not that useful, but that and the geocities site that was removed (also questionable) have been re-inserted and I don't care to get involved in an edit war. - Special-T ( talk) 12:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
---
Who never heard about Maurice ANDRE can be forgiven. But who knows him cannot ignore the fact he's the father of the modern piccolo trumpet (as written in his website). If not Maurice ANDRE, who else ? David Mason ? By the way, european people have another vision of History. We do not consider Penny Lane (and the genius David Mason) as a reference in the history of piccolo trumpet repertoire. Viviani, Loeillet, Bach or Telemann are, to our mind, more important than Mr Paul McCartney (who is obviously also a genius). Therefore, it is very difficult - if not impossible - to understand each other. This is a problem of historical references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.238.125.74 ( talk) 18:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The article says, "The smallest of the trumpet family is the piccolo trumpet, pitched one octave higher than the standard B♭ trumpet." Being interested in the piccolo mainly for higher range, I just came from an internet site that stated flatly that one will not be able to play one's piccolo a octave higher than one's regular B flat trumpet. Is this article correct? Or is the other article correct about your pickle? ( EnochBethany ( talk) 04:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC))
( EnochBethany ( talk) 04:29, 1 March 2011 (UTC))
Righto, I've dug out The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Brass Instruments. The range of the "Four-valve piccolo trumpet in B♭" under "Modern instruments" is given as B₃–F₆ in Appendix 2: [1]
It also lists the 19th century 3-valve Bach trumpet separately on p. 45 (initially built in 5′ A, but subsequently in 3½′ D, half the length of the natural trumpet in D that Bach called for), and the appendix supplies the modern trumpet in D, essentially a wrapped version of the straight original, as:
The appendix does not describe a natural trumpet in 7′ D, only 8′ C on p. 490, which describes the range as:
Which supports the idea (and general usage/idiom) that the upper clarino range (above the 7th partial) of the Baroque natural trumpet in 7′ D that Bach wrote for (one tone higher than the natural trumpet in 8′ C), and the ranges of both the 19th century 3-valve Bach trumpet in 3½′ D and the modern 4-valve piccolo trumpet in 2¼′ B♭ (or 2⅜′ A) are much the same, with a tessitura range to around high F₆. Of course, players with great chops can go higher, aided by smaller, shallower mouthpieces, and indeed this is often heard in jazz - very high (colloq. "screaming") trumpet parts, played by jazz players, even on standard (4¾′) B♭ trumpets. Arturo Sandoval for instance often squeals away in the stratosphere, up to and above B♭₆. [2] To reiterate, Adler in his 4th edition of The Study of Orchestration on pp. 363–364 describes in the text that the B♭ piccolo trumpet "has an effective range from B♭₃ to A₅" but then supplies its range as: [3]
So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — Jon ( talk) 00:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
References
1. The second picc picture (purple background) is quite nice but could maybe do with a caption. Also (1a), we've concentrated on the older-fashioned shaped piccs and could maybe do with something newer/taller/longer as well ... more Schilke/Yamaha/new-Bach-looking perhaps? I'm very attached to the original (red background) photo, not only because it has been here since c. 1893 but also because it's quite useful.
2. In an edit summary Special-T asks whether one of the photos is perhaps reversed. Good question but no, I don't think so. There's a lack of standardization in picc layouts that's far more dramatic than you see in (most) big trumpets. The red picture is an old (old I tell you!) Selmer and the purple one could be a more recent Selmer or something but I suspect it might be the late and unlamented (though pretty) Bach 196. (I wish it was in 3D so I could just roll it this way a little to see...) Anyway, they're constructed in different ways - the old Selmer is bell-right-of-valves and the other instrument is bell-left, and ne'er the twain shall meet. So they don't really fulfil the criterion of being images of "both sides" because it doesn't work like that unless you really photograph both sides of one instrument! I suppose I could do that if I were a nice and conscientious person but please don't hold your breath. Also the RH side of the old Selmer is a bit boring, because all the fun happens over on this side! Oh well. Hope this helps; best wishes, DBaK ( talk) 19:05, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Something doesn't add up in this article. It basically says that the piccolo trumpet was invented in order to play Bach works. Well what on earth did they do in Bach's time? Did Bach really write unplayable works, thinking "Well, in a few centuries, someone will invent a trumpet that can play this!" I dearly wish that someone who knows the answer would clarify this in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.126.72 ( talk) 09:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
A B-flat trumpet sounds two semitones lower than scored. But according to the article, a B-flat piccolo trumpet sounds two semitones higher than scored? Hard to believe. Somebody please shed some light. CountMacula ( talk) 19:43, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
References
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the only thing i find a little weird is that the trumpet has 4 vaulves instead of 3. My question is it hard to learn to play when you already play the trumpet, ive been playing for four years now but i would like to see the piccolo trumpet and learn to play it but is it harder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.131.2 ( talk • contribs)
It is quite natural to use the fourth valve when playing a low "f" as you will not be able to play the note otherwise!!!! Regards "Scott LaFata"
Well, 70.123.131.2, I haven't had my piccolo for very long yet. But so far, it has been a delight to learn, having played Bb trumpet for many years. Because of the smaller piping, I find I have to blow much harder in the piccolo to produce sound. Having different leadpipes is incredibly useful. Compared to a Bb trumpet, it is definitely harder to play, but well worth it. The fingerings are no problem at all. On a Bb trumpet, the chromatic scale from F# below middle C to high C, is identical to the piccolo's F# below high C to double high C fingering. (Above that is a matter of chops, not fingering.) Going down from F# is a matter of goofing around for a few minutes to figure out which ones work. I haven't figured out how to play middle C in tune yet, on the piccolo. There seems to be a complete octave of "pedal tones" below that (no semi tones?) that sound really awful in terms of tonal quality. Should this page have a range chart similar to the one over on Trumpet? A piccolo fingering chart (like the one on Trumpet might help, too.) -- Connel MacKenzie - wikt 04:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
From main article: "A popular term to emerge among trumpet players is "Hardenberger Range". It generally refers to anything above a C on piccolo trumpet."
The phrase "Hardenberger Range", is not a widely used term amongst trumpet players, due to a recent poll results indicate that 90% have never even heard of the phrase used in this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardenberger ( talk • contribs)
Shouldn't this article have some references other than another Wikipedia article? Otherwise, this is just an extra page with the same information as the main trumpet page. Daduke104 ( talk) 03:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)Daduke104
The Maurice Andre site has some nice pics and video, but is very badly written (indecipherable grammar, gushing fandom). The other site listed is basically advice on shopping for piccolo trumpets. They both have some redeeming value, but there are WP:NOT issues here. - Special-T ( talk) 13:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I still think the Andre site is not that useful, but that and the geocities site that was removed (also questionable) have been re-inserted and I don't care to get involved in an edit war. - Special-T ( talk) 12:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
---
Who never heard about Maurice ANDRE can be forgiven. But who knows him cannot ignore the fact he's the father of the modern piccolo trumpet (as written in his website). If not Maurice ANDRE, who else ? David Mason ? By the way, european people have another vision of History. We do not consider Penny Lane (and the genius David Mason) as a reference in the history of piccolo trumpet repertoire. Viviani, Loeillet, Bach or Telemann are, to our mind, more important than Mr Paul McCartney (who is obviously also a genius). Therefore, it is very difficult - if not impossible - to understand each other. This is a problem of historical references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.238.125.74 ( talk) 18:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The article says, "The smallest of the trumpet family is the piccolo trumpet, pitched one octave higher than the standard B♭ trumpet." Being interested in the piccolo mainly for higher range, I just came from an internet site that stated flatly that one will not be able to play one's piccolo a octave higher than one's regular B flat trumpet. Is this article correct? Or is the other article correct about your pickle? ( EnochBethany ( talk) 04:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC))
( EnochBethany ( talk) 04:29, 1 March 2011 (UTC))
Righto, I've dug out The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Brass Instruments. The range of the "Four-valve piccolo trumpet in B♭" under "Modern instruments" is given as B₃–F₆ in Appendix 2: [1]
It also lists the 19th century 3-valve Bach trumpet separately on p. 45 (initially built in 5′ A, but subsequently in 3½′ D, half the length of the natural trumpet in D that Bach called for), and the appendix supplies the modern trumpet in D, essentially a wrapped version of the straight original, as:
The appendix does not describe a natural trumpet in 7′ D, only 8′ C on p. 490, which describes the range as:
Which supports the idea (and general usage/idiom) that the upper clarino range (above the 7th partial) of the Baroque natural trumpet in 7′ D that Bach wrote for (one tone higher than the natural trumpet in 8′ C), and the ranges of both the 19th century 3-valve Bach trumpet in 3½′ D and the modern 4-valve piccolo trumpet in 2¼′ B♭ (or 2⅜′ A) are much the same, with a tessitura range to around high F₆. Of course, players with great chops can go higher, aided by smaller, shallower mouthpieces, and indeed this is often heard in jazz - very high (colloq. "screaming") trumpet parts, played by jazz players, even on standard (4¾′) B♭ trumpets. Arturo Sandoval for instance often squeals away in the stratosphere, up to and above B♭₆. [2] To reiterate, Adler in his 4th edition of The Study of Orchestration on pp. 363–364 describes in the text that the B♭ piccolo trumpet "has an effective range from B♭₃ to A₅" but then supplies its range as: [3]
So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — Jon ( talk) 00:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
References
1. The second picc picture (purple background) is quite nice but could maybe do with a caption. Also (1a), we've concentrated on the older-fashioned shaped piccs and could maybe do with something newer/taller/longer as well ... more Schilke/Yamaha/new-Bach-looking perhaps? I'm very attached to the original (red background) photo, not only because it has been here since c. 1893 but also because it's quite useful.
2. In an edit summary Special-T asks whether one of the photos is perhaps reversed. Good question but no, I don't think so. There's a lack of standardization in picc layouts that's far more dramatic than you see in (most) big trumpets. The red picture is an old (old I tell you!) Selmer and the purple one could be a more recent Selmer or something but I suspect it might be the late and unlamented (though pretty) Bach 196. (I wish it was in 3D so I could just roll it this way a little to see...) Anyway, they're constructed in different ways - the old Selmer is bell-right-of-valves and the other instrument is bell-left, and ne'er the twain shall meet. So they don't really fulfil the criterion of being images of "both sides" because it doesn't work like that unless you really photograph both sides of one instrument! I suppose I could do that if I were a nice and conscientious person but please don't hold your breath. Also the RH side of the old Selmer is a bit boring, because all the fun happens over on this side! Oh well. Hope this helps; best wishes, DBaK ( talk) 19:05, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Something doesn't add up in this article. It basically says that the piccolo trumpet was invented in order to play Bach works. Well what on earth did they do in Bach's time? Did Bach really write unplayable works, thinking "Well, in a few centuries, someone will invent a trumpet that can play this!" I dearly wish that someone who knows the answer would clarify this in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.126.72 ( talk) 09:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
A B-flat trumpet sounds two semitones lower than scored. But according to the article, a B-flat piccolo trumpet sounds two semitones higher than scored? Hard to believe. Somebody please shed some light. CountMacula ( talk) 19:43, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
References