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I read somewhere that near a black hole a circle's circumfrence around the black hole can be different than pi times its diameter. Can someone who understands physics better than I do add something to the article? Pak aran 21:40, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
As was said by William Connelly in the first reply, this occours everywhere. Gravity of any matter turns spacetime into a manifold, so Euclidian geometry does not apply. This is most noticable near a black hole because the gravity there is so immense. As one's distance from a black hole approaches 0, the force of the black hole's gravity is limited by infinity, making it a "second order pole" so to speak, as opposed to the gravity of other objects which are limited by finite values. Because of this infinite gravity, the distortion is most visible there. But converslyif the circle experiences no distortion beforehand (That is, its shape is already a perfect circle when it encounters this situation) and it is centered on the black hole, it will maintain its shape. Because of its perfect shape, the force on any given point is equal, so all points are pulled in at the same speed toward teh same point. Any inward motion would mean that any point would coincide with both points next to it, so it maintains shape. He Who Is 20:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I just wonder, do we really need the subsection Pi#Least accurate approximations in the section about numerical approximation? Seems like a curiosity, and it looks to me that it there is much more worthy material both before and after it. How about removing this, or otherwise making it a section at the very bottom with a better name? Oleg Alexandrov 17:05, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I personally know pi out to 100+ digits, should we display only 70 on the main page? In addition, when talking about "pi to n digits" does n include the 3? IMHO, the statemant on the main page "...to a 70 pdeimal places" is correct; howerver, I (as above) often say that I know 100 digits of pi, althoughi don't include the 3 in that count (3.14159 counts as 5 digits). Are my semantics wrong or are both phrases acceptable?
I would like 70, too. I memorized the first 50 decimal places of pi here on Wikipedia (this should be on the Wikipediholic test!) Evan Robidoux 21:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Pi is a numerical constant always equal to 3.14... except for Halloween when it's made of pumpkin: Pumpkin Pi. You can carve it out and then have a positive and a negative Pumpkin Pi. If you teach math it makes an unexpected treat for your students. Jclerman 19:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
What about the gang of four? I think it's digraceful to make such a mockery of a fantastic example of mathmatical reasoning. Keith
If a river is old enough that is with a rather meandering and stable path it is known that the ratio between the length of the river and the line connecting its mouth and source yields pi. Would somebody kindly put it into the article? -- Dennis Valeev 23:21, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
The mathworld entry on pi ( http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html) lists this, with a reference, but no explanation. It seems clear that this is not an actual definition of pi by any means, but an observation that some property of the motion of rivers over a long period of time tends to force the ratio to approach pi. One of the references given is the popular math book Fermat's Enigma, if anyone has this book maybe they could shed some light, provide statistics or reasoning behind the ratio. -- Monguin61 22:06, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Please use the same symbol for pi, throught. The one used in the formulae and in the figure are OK. The other one, used in the text, looks as a TT. For ergonomic reasons the same symbol everywhere. Jclerman 22:21, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
#content { font-family: "Times New Roman"; }
I Disagree ,the current symbol makes it hard to read ,and in first glance I thought this article was about something else(like the greek letter system) ,All uses of Pi in writing and reading uses the samwe symbol. Load time is neglegable because the same singal symbol will be loaded throughout the article. Big HTML format can fix further readibliy issues ,such as in (<big><math>\pi</math></big>).I just need to go over all it's occurances ,help me not to miss anything.-- Procrastinating@ talk2me 10:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Use letter, not image Tex formulae don't display well in-line. In fact, inline images in general don't render well, especially cross-browser -- it is hard to get baselines to align and character sizes to be consistent with text. What is more, you can't change their size by changing your browser text size (universal usability issue). Tex formulae are especially problematic for a single character, because it will be in Tex's choice of font, rather than a font that is consistent with the rest of the text. Another (more minor) problem is that you can cut and paste text reliably if it has inline images. If the letter π looks ugly or illegible in your browser, you should get better fonts -- after all, it will affect the letter in Greek text, not just math. -- Macrakis 15:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
The nicer tex pi is the ''only correct symbol. The TT pi is a capital pi, and should not be used. The standard symbol for the mathematical constant is lowercase pi, which is the pi used in the TeX sections.
But π is the letter pi in Arial font, which is standard on all Wikipedia's pages. User:Gee Eight 5 August 2006 19.41 UTC
If I start an article on 2pi and describe its fundamentality and utility relative to pi, what will it take to get you, kind reader, to vote keep when it hits AfD? I'd like to know in advance. Melchoir 07:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Woah, woah woah! What are you talking about?!?! π is so much more natural than 2π. For lack of originality, I'm going to call this new number, ρ Sure you get "circumfrence = ρr", and various physics and statistics formulas a little cleaner (though many are based on surface area of spherical functions, so they would still be 2ρ or 4ρ), but you're missing the point. in two dimensions, "circle's area = πr2" there's "the most remarkable formula in mathematics" "eiπ + 1 = 0". This formula wouldn't have recieved the press it's recieved if it looked like "eρi/2 + 1 = 0", and look, it even spells "pi" (almost). I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the fact that 2π is more natural than π. McKay 03:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm with you. But since Wikipedia is not the right place; let's set up an advocacy website elsewhere! Does ρ stand for "revolution"? Fredrik Johansson 20:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
In order to simplify mathematics, the value of PI should be declared to exactly equal (sqrt1+sqrt2). The value of e should be exactly (1+sqrt3). Millions of schoolchildren would benefit from these simplyfications. 195.70.32.136 14:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
You didn't spell simplifications properly. And no, it wouldn't simplify mathematics at all, it'd screw it up. The indefinite integral of e to the x wouldn't be e to the x anymore, it'd be something else. What about ln? Crazy. Deskana 13:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Nowt to mention, sqrt1 = 1. Either way, you can't just "declare" pi and e to be whatever you want. They have specific values, and people don't decide what they are. We only figure out what they are -- He Who Is[ Talk ] 17:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, admittedly this doesn't have anything to do with π per se, but a recent revert by Kungfuadam was done without offering any justification. There doesn't seem to be any previous discussion about the use of formulæ, so why is it being used? The accepted plural of formula is formulas or formulae, not formulæ. [2] [3] [4] Doesn't the advocacy of uncommon and archaic spellings, such as formulæ, come under Wikipedia is not a soapbox? -- 203.173.24.77 07:22, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Odd that there are π x 10^7 seconds in a year. Well at least to 0.38%
-- Geoff Broughton 20:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
As an enlightened encyclopedia ,people should reffer here for many reasons. One of these reasons could be finding out a non common approximation of Pi ,So Although not particularly fashionable ,I wish to extend it to 100 digits. It is very hard to find on the Net ,Unlike the 50 digits version. 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117068
-get a life
[User:Diza|The Procrastinator]] 02:06, 30 December 2005 (UTC) Since 10 days have passed and no further input has been brought upon this issue ,I take it as the community standpoint. please refrein from further revert wars on this subject. The Procrastinator 19:38, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone think creating an article "Digits of Pi", with 10,000 digits or so, is approporiate? Maybe we could also leave 50 digits in the introduction of this article, and adding a section with more digits. -- Meni Rosenfeld 16:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice to know. I think that given the amount of information about pi in this article, there should also be some words (or numerals) regarding what pi really is. Linking to other sites is great, but there should probably be more information within WP. I think I will create such an article unless there is a strong objection. -- Meni Rosenfeld 18:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Object There is really little point in showing large numbers of digits of π anywhere in Wikipedia. What π is, is certain mathematical relations, such as sin(π)=0. The numerical value is less interesting. Fifty digits is much more than enough for any practical application (science, engineering), and no number of digits is enough to resolve any of the deep mathematical issues. Sometimes people use π as a source of pseudo-random digits, but there are better ways to do that nowadays and WP isn't supposed to be a library of mathematical subroutines. Pointing to outside sources is just fine for large numbers of digits. Would you also suggest that WP should have 10,000 digits of e? Of sqrt(2)? Of γ? etc. etc. etc.? -- Macrakis 18:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Object Yes, it's nice to know, but humanity already knows the first few thousand digits of pi, and we've already linked to them. Let's not kid ourselves: the absence of information from Wikipedia does not make it less real, or necessarily any harder to find. In the opposite direction, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. The digits of pi do not demand an article that anyone can edit, and they are not encyclopedic in the sense that the proposed article would forever be a one-sentence substub. The digits of pi don't belong in either half of the Wiki-pedia.
Why do I care? Because the digits of pi don't tell you anything about "what pi really is". That's what this article is for, and if you feel it's insufficient, then it needs more discussion, not more digits. I could create the article "3.14 followed by 10,000 random numbers", and it would be equally enlightening. Melchoir 18:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
For There should be a "More Pi" (or something) section at the bottom of the article that includes several hundred digits. This way the beginning of the article is kept tidy while you still have all of the information. And these digits of pi are important ... if somehow all other works in the world are destroyed along with all computers, but some printout of this page remains, the survivors will need to know the precise value of pi. -- Cyde Weys vote talk 20:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I do hope you are joking -- hard to tell when communicating online, with someone you don't know. -- Macrakis 20:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
For although I admit infint digits do not serve anything ,the external links's digits are diifficult to view ,and this article being So large(and spun off another article) ,we could for the completness of it have a few thousand digits articles
Pi value. unlike e ,whic is used to simplify mathematical calculations and is not really needed, pi's value is of real use. No harm will be done by creating such an article.--
Procrastinating@
talk2me
10:32, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted 10,000 digits from the article. Per this discussion, it seemed like too much. -- Hansnesse 21:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
First of all, let me say that I'm grateful for the anonymous contributions to the history section. I've always thought that Nehemiah misses the point of quoting numbers with limited precision. However, I really think the anons are conflating two separate issues:
I'll revert back to my version. Melchoir 05:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
From the anon: The reason for noting the imprecision of cubits was to counter the argument that one of the measurements should be read as exact. If the cubit *were* defined universally and exactly, one might assume a dimenson was built to that spec, instead of simply measuring approximately that many cubits. (It'd be analogous to a "10-meter diving board", which doesn't simply coincidentally measure approximately 10 meters; it's specifically built to be as close to 10 meters as possible.)
That said, I don't think it's a big enough deal to revert back, as the shorter passage also makes the main point and I haven't seen anyone here actually raise the objection the "not precisely defined" sentence was intended to counter.
-- Anon (JMO from a wireless conn.)
I don't think that the 1 Kings passage and its discussion by Nehemiah belong in the Pi article. At best, they belong in the History of Pi article, but perhaps not even there. Here's why.
The 1 Kings passage itself is not good evidence of knowledge of the value of π. The figures given are round numbers, and I see no reason to expect that they'd be accurate measurements rather than just impressionistic estimates: the specific numbers just tell the reader that it's a very big vat -- a common practice in ancient texts. Applying modern engineering assumptions about "significant figures" is completely anachronistic. For that matter, who says it was precisely circular? Nehemiah's exegesis is tendentious and questionable. The assumptions about the diameter being measured outside the thickness of the vat and the circumference inside its thickness contradict both the text and common sense: it is much more sensible to measure the outside circumference with a rope than to try to measure the inside circumference (how would you even do that?). The analysis also assumes specific values for cubits and hand-breadths which don't correspond to the values documented in cubit and especially not to the ratio of hand-breadths and cubits, which was normally an exact integer (5, 6, or 7). By the time of Nehemiah, π was known rather accurately, so it seems he worked backwards to make the 1 Kings text give the right answer.
So it doesn't make sense to use these numbers either to 'prove' that the Hebrews were terrible mathematicians who thought that π was 3 or fabulous mathematicians who were far ahead of their time and thought it was 355/113). The section does not belong here. -- Macrakis 03:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone pasted in an insane quantity of digits, and on my browser the sequence doesn't even start with 3.14...and also breaks out of its formatting box. With all the links, no reason to clog up the page with thousands of digits, so can someone please cleanup? This is an important article so I'm scared to mess with it myself. Ben Kidwell 18:41, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
or
or
Jclerman 01:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
It appears that I have found a simple way to approximate pi to at least 9 (and likely at least 10) significant digits despite the fact that I am a high school student whose worst subject is math. One day recently, I was curious what my calculator would do if I were to ask it to take .5 factorial. Then, for no particular reason, I had it square the answer and then multiply it by 4. The screen, which shows no more than ten digits of a solution, read 3.141592654. Could someone who knows enough about pi please convince me that 4(.5!)^2 is at least probably not it? I suggest you get right on it as my head is growing at a rate that suggests it may explode at any moment. Ev-Man 18:00, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
The Spanish wikipedia has a pretty nifty little table that depicts various historical approximations of pi. Could someone else take a look and see if it is worth translating into English?
The link for pi to a million places is no more, and it links to a porn site. Frogan 06:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
In other news, I have recently taken a badly-needed chainsaw to the section. Melchoir 07:18, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted an edit to the Prof. Frink quote in the "Fictional references" section. A quick google search seemed to show that the original is correct, but I wanted to throw it open for discussion if others know differently. Thanks, -- Hansnesse 17:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I have a question which someone more informed about math may want to answer in the article. It is obviously not possible to measure the actual ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter to millions of significant digets. Our measuring tools are not that precise. So, how do we know that the mathematically calculated value of pi is actually the ratio that exists in the real world? Even if you decide not to put this information in the main article, I would like to find out the answer to satisfy my own curiosity.
Thanks to all for the quick response to my question. As I understand it from your answers, pi is a mathematical construct derived from a geometrically pefect circle in euclidian space, and is not based upon physical measurements of real objects. My follow up question is "How was the formula for calculating the digits of pi arrived at?" I assume that there must be some sort of mathematical "description" of a perfect circle which is used to derive the formula, but how do you describe a perfect circle in math without using pi? Thanks in advance for your help with this.
OK, we are closing in on the answer now. Macrakis states "you can derive formulae for circumference, area, etc. using the definition of Euclidean distance and calculus." I understand that diameter is 2r, so that part is easy. How do you derive the circumference without using pi, when the only starting data is r? I don't understand how "the definition of Euclidean distance and calculus" gives you this information. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks.
That last explanation is very helpful, and I appreciate it. At the beginning of this topic, I suggested that the answer to my question might be appropriate for inclusion in the article. Sometimes when experts are writing an article, they fail to address issues which they think are too obvious to be addressed, but that a lay reader would appreciate having explained. I leave it up to others to decide whether a section in the article should be written to concisely explain how pi is derived, and why it does not necessarily describe a property of the physical universe.
Perhaps the article Length of an arc should be more widely advertised? The approximation of pi by regular polygons is, IIRC, of historical interest, so that might be expanded upon in this article. Melchoir 03:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way, if you haven't figured it out already, there are ways besides measuring to find the value of pi.
Melchoir, are you sure the link to this book qualifies as spam? I would think an article should refer to books about the subject. Perhaps it should be placed in "References" instead? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 07:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, I happen to have that book. So what you are saying is that it will be a good idea for me to check that the information in the article and in the book match, and if so, include it in the references? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 08:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do. Could take a while though. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Given Wikipedia's rise in popularity since last year, I anticipate an unprecedented rash of vandalism to this article on March 14. It will be tempting to semi-protect the page, but we probably shouldn't. Just saying. Melchoir 19:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
In the trivia section, is there a particular reason why "A9.com" is in bold while "amazon.com" is in italics? Or why the entry should be prefaced by "Corporate pi:" at all? Clark Kent 04:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
How can a program such as Wolfram Mathematica calculate pi to 1*10^7 digits of pi. What formulaass ar ussedd?-- 72.36.198.186
And you don't have to trust mathworld, you can get a very rough estimation of the kth term:
This means that each term is roughly 10^16 times smaller than the one before, so each term gives you roughly 16 additional digits. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 10:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Right. That explains why I got a different result. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 17:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
All the physics equations listed in the article show PI in a product or division with a physical constant, or referring to chosen measuring units. Thus, it's no significative the appereance of PI there. For example, the quantity can be defined as a universal constant itself, and so pi would dissapear. This is more a matter of the units and constants chosen, in all those cases. Probably, there are better equations to write as examples.
From the properties section:
"Because the coordinates of all points that can be constructed with ruler and compass are constructible numbers, it is impossible to square the circle, that is, it is impossible to construct, using ruler and compass alone, a square whose area is equal to the area of a given circle. If you don't know that you are so stupid!"
Just as some random guy looking at the article, that doesn't seem too professional. I'll leave the editing to someone else though.
Edit: didn't realize it was pi appreciation day, was just going through a textbook in preparation for a test and curious as to wikipedia's pi page. Someone probably snuck it on here today.
This article says "As early as the 20th century BC, Babylonian mathematicians were using π=25/8" but in the history of pi article it says that the babylonians started using 25/8 in the 19th century, I didn't want to change anything because I don't know which is right but someone who knows should. William conway bcc 22:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)\
Here's another inconsistency: this article says π stands for περιφέρεια, history of pi says it stands for περιμετρος (sic). -- EJ 23:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
In the properties section, it is written:
pi is an irrational number; that is, it cannot be written as the ratio of two integers, as was proven in 1761 by Johann Heinrich Lambert.
The proof that pi irrational is thousands of years old. The Pythagoreans knew it, and I'm pretty sure it's in Euclid's Elements as well. I edited it but someone keeps reverting it back. Nan Yang 17:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I am not able to spot who put again 1000 digits of pi on this page. I think earlier discussion concluded in that this is of no use on this page.
If s.o. else agrees, please delete this chunk of digits from the section "Numerical approximations".
This section would merit a page on its own. Maybe I'll give it a try.
(The pi page is so huge I don't even dare to edit the preamble with the statement "for more digits, see the links below" which is not really appropriate. The OEIS page cited just before however gives useful links - I would prefer referring to this.) — MFH: Talk 21:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
=> see Talk:History_of_numerical_approximations_of_π
This article is still a mess. Starting from the introduction: Too long, much irrelevant suff (for a "zeroeth section"), many things said twice (Euclidean definition...), others not at all. The "precise" definition should go into a first subsection. A rough approximation (3.14) should be given at the start, etc. etc. — MFH: Talk 16:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I am about 10 years old and need a formula for pi that is as simple as possible. I have been loking for it ever since I learned about pi. Also, I think my IP address is shared with about 10 other people. I had nothing to do with that pi thing. I hardly noticed that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.43.6 ( talk • contribs) 22 March 2006, 02:59 (UTC)
What I mean is something you can do by hand. I want it to be exact to at least hundreds of decimal places. And only kindergaren age kids do that. 64.131.43.6 22:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
The first 103 are available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Numerical_value . What are you using it for? He Who Is 21:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry for a series of subsequent edits to the top section of pi. I think that the several equivalent definitions should go into a separate subsection. It took me about 4 hours to change the formulations in a satisfying way. Unfortunately, when I finally saved it, I had to notice that the table of contents (which I could not see in the previews) interfered with the display of the first two images.
I made some fixes to the problem, but I'm still not very happy with the current state. I would like to have the circle displayed a bit earlier (I initially put it jut before the ==Definition== which looked quite nice, but only without the T.O.C.). To get an idea of what I tried to get, consider the featured article on π on German Wikipedia. — MFH: Talk 18:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Could somebody check the first 1,000,000 digits of pi found on this web site? They were created by Mathematica (Timing[Export["pi1.txt", N[π, 1000000], "List"]]). They are put into nice ,TXT files.
I have made several small revisions to the web site and have moved it to another computer. The site should be currently and permanantly up(I had some small previous problems that have been resolved). How about including it in the article now? In my oppinion the site is very clear and consice. If you have any suggestions on improving it further, please leave a comment here. Otherwise, let's add it...-- BorisFromStockdale 03:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
As a web administrator, I would say that the site must be on a dedicated server that is going to be available and reliable. Otherwise, the linkrot team will eventually notice that it is an unreliable server and they will remove the link. - Corbin Simpson 04:06, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Come to think of it, what in the world is the last item in the current Trivia section talking about? Melchoir 21:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this is a very good article - at the very least it should go on the list of Good Articles. However, would there be any objection to me putting this foward as a featured article candidate? (Has it been already?) CloudNine 18:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I was not able to access this external link: "π available in various lengths, up to 4.2 billion digits" in the main article? --
BorisFromStockdale
06:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Pi is not pronounced with the dipthong "ie" in the english, "pie." The pronunciation of the greek spelling Pi Iota is disputed, but it was with near absolute certainty either the sound represented in the IPA ([ [5]]) as i, "ee," or as I, as the sound in "it" Thanatosimii 04:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
agreed but: In greek, I was taught 'Pee' But of cource math class it is 'Pie' and that is proably what the article implies Minnesota1 04:09, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
following the usual convention for pronunciation of Ancient Greek in English; the Modern Greek pronunciation of π differs.
There is no information about this convention on the page Ancient Greek, and we don't talk about the Modern Greek pronunciation, but about the English pronounciation. (In all other languages (French, German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian....) it is pronounced /pi/ (i.e. pee for those who prefer). (Yes, even in Russian, even though the cyrillic alphabet has the same letter which is not pronounced like this.) — MFH: Talk 21:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
The iamge of the large π was just moved from left to right with the edit summary "Image should not be on the left". This seems brusque; for Heaven;s sake, why not? Septentrionalis 01:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an article that can be reorganised into a featured article. Raising points on discussion: this should be our goal, so where shall we start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natalinasmpf ( talk • contribs) 22:49, 31 March 2006
I endorse anon rm of:
I am unable to verify this plot point via web and have not a copy handy. I will entertain counterargument. John Reid 00:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
64.59.233.88 ( talk · contribs) has added the formula . In my opinion it is a trivial consequence of the formula which appears above, and should be removed. Any objections? If no one objects, I will remove the formula. If we do decide to keep it, then we should also add more important formulae such as . -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 18:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Henning: Yes, it is. Think about it - if you multiply each term by 1/4, you'll be left exactly with the reciprocals of the even squares. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 07:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
While we're at it, how about a comprehensive article "List of formulae involving Pi", including this formula and many others? If not on Wikipedia, is there a sister project where such an article would be appropriate? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 08:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Why battle first, when we can do it later? :) See List of formulae involving Pi and Talk:List of formulae involving Pi. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:25, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I dont understand the purpose of the 'unrolled' subpage. The use of subpages at all is not standard practice on Wikipedia. If it is just about the word 'unrolled' in terms of pi, then maybe it should be moved to Wiktionary? Other information that might be relevant to pi itself should probably be merged into the pi article. Thoughts? Remy B 08:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I have inserted {{
prod}}, which proposes it for deletion. It is out of place, and in error on two points (marked).
Septentrionalis
23:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
.......................................
Please discuss on page
Talk:Pi/Unrolled.
Lambiam
Talk
06:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Lets keep islam out of it. We call 1940's Van Braun rocketry as 'German', not Nazi. Same as Persian. 23:47, 19 April 2006 by 24.1.24.2 ( talk · contribs)
I don't know where to report this, but the Pi page has been vandilized terribly, look into Properties for starters.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
I read somewhere that near a black hole a circle's circumfrence around the black hole can be different than pi times its diameter. Can someone who understands physics better than I do add something to the article? Pak aran 21:40, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
As was said by William Connelly in the first reply, this occours everywhere. Gravity of any matter turns spacetime into a manifold, so Euclidian geometry does not apply. This is most noticable near a black hole because the gravity there is so immense. As one's distance from a black hole approaches 0, the force of the black hole's gravity is limited by infinity, making it a "second order pole" so to speak, as opposed to the gravity of other objects which are limited by finite values. Because of this infinite gravity, the distortion is most visible there. But converslyif the circle experiences no distortion beforehand (That is, its shape is already a perfect circle when it encounters this situation) and it is centered on the black hole, it will maintain its shape. Because of its perfect shape, the force on any given point is equal, so all points are pulled in at the same speed toward teh same point. Any inward motion would mean that any point would coincide with both points next to it, so it maintains shape. He Who Is 20:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I just wonder, do we really need the subsection Pi#Least accurate approximations in the section about numerical approximation? Seems like a curiosity, and it looks to me that it there is much more worthy material both before and after it. How about removing this, or otherwise making it a section at the very bottom with a better name? Oleg Alexandrov 17:05, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I personally know pi out to 100+ digits, should we display only 70 on the main page? In addition, when talking about "pi to n digits" does n include the 3? IMHO, the statemant on the main page "...to a 70 pdeimal places" is correct; howerver, I (as above) often say that I know 100 digits of pi, althoughi don't include the 3 in that count (3.14159 counts as 5 digits). Are my semantics wrong or are both phrases acceptable?
I would like 70, too. I memorized the first 50 decimal places of pi here on Wikipedia (this should be on the Wikipediholic test!) Evan Robidoux 21:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Pi is a numerical constant always equal to 3.14... except for Halloween when it's made of pumpkin: Pumpkin Pi. You can carve it out and then have a positive and a negative Pumpkin Pi. If you teach math it makes an unexpected treat for your students. Jclerman 19:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
What about the gang of four? I think it's digraceful to make such a mockery of a fantastic example of mathmatical reasoning. Keith
If a river is old enough that is with a rather meandering and stable path it is known that the ratio between the length of the river and the line connecting its mouth and source yields pi. Would somebody kindly put it into the article? -- Dennis Valeev 23:21, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
The mathworld entry on pi ( http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html) lists this, with a reference, but no explanation. It seems clear that this is not an actual definition of pi by any means, but an observation that some property of the motion of rivers over a long period of time tends to force the ratio to approach pi. One of the references given is the popular math book Fermat's Enigma, if anyone has this book maybe they could shed some light, provide statistics or reasoning behind the ratio. -- Monguin61 22:06, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Please use the same symbol for pi, throught. The one used in the formulae and in the figure are OK. The other one, used in the text, looks as a TT. For ergonomic reasons the same symbol everywhere. Jclerman 22:21, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
#content { font-family: "Times New Roman"; }
I Disagree ,the current symbol makes it hard to read ,and in first glance I thought this article was about something else(like the greek letter system) ,All uses of Pi in writing and reading uses the samwe symbol. Load time is neglegable because the same singal symbol will be loaded throughout the article. Big HTML format can fix further readibliy issues ,such as in (<big><math>\pi</math></big>).I just need to go over all it's occurances ,help me not to miss anything.-- Procrastinating@ talk2me 10:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Use letter, not image Tex formulae don't display well in-line. In fact, inline images in general don't render well, especially cross-browser -- it is hard to get baselines to align and character sizes to be consistent with text. What is more, you can't change their size by changing your browser text size (universal usability issue). Tex formulae are especially problematic for a single character, because it will be in Tex's choice of font, rather than a font that is consistent with the rest of the text. Another (more minor) problem is that you can cut and paste text reliably if it has inline images. If the letter π looks ugly or illegible in your browser, you should get better fonts -- after all, it will affect the letter in Greek text, not just math. -- Macrakis 15:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
The nicer tex pi is the ''only correct symbol. The TT pi is a capital pi, and should not be used. The standard symbol for the mathematical constant is lowercase pi, which is the pi used in the TeX sections.
But π is the letter pi in Arial font, which is standard on all Wikipedia's pages. User:Gee Eight 5 August 2006 19.41 UTC
If I start an article on 2pi and describe its fundamentality and utility relative to pi, what will it take to get you, kind reader, to vote keep when it hits AfD? I'd like to know in advance. Melchoir 07:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Woah, woah woah! What are you talking about?!?! π is so much more natural than 2π. For lack of originality, I'm going to call this new number, ρ Sure you get "circumfrence = ρr", and various physics and statistics formulas a little cleaner (though many are based on surface area of spherical functions, so they would still be 2ρ or 4ρ), but you're missing the point. in two dimensions, "circle's area = πr2" there's "the most remarkable formula in mathematics" "eiπ + 1 = 0". This formula wouldn't have recieved the press it's recieved if it looked like "eρi/2 + 1 = 0", and look, it even spells "pi" (almost). I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the fact that 2π is more natural than π. McKay 03:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm with you. But since Wikipedia is not the right place; let's set up an advocacy website elsewhere! Does ρ stand for "revolution"? Fredrik Johansson 20:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
In order to simplify mathematics, the value of PI should be declared to exactly equal (sqrt1+sqrt2). The value of e should be exactly (1+sqrt3). Millions of schoolchildren would benefit from these simplyfications. 195.70.32.136 14:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
You didn't spell simplifications properly. And no, it wouldn't simplify mathematics at all, it'd screw it up. The indefinite integral of e to the x wouldn't be e to the x anymore, it'd be something else. What about ln? Crazy. Deskana 13:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Nowt to mention, sqrt1 = 1. Either way, you can't just "declare" pi and e to be whatever you want. They have specific values, and people don't decide what they are. We only figure out what they are -- He Who Is[ Talk ] 17:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, admittedly this doesn't have anything to do with π per se, but a recent revert by Kungfuadam was done without offering any justification. There doesn't seem to be any previous discussion about the use of formulæ, so why is it being used? The accepted plural of formula is formulas or formulae, not formulæ. [2] [3] [4] Doesn't the advocacy of uncommon and archaic spellings, such as formulæ, come under Wikipedia is not a soapbox? -- 203.173.24.77 07:22, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Odd that there are π x 10^7 seconds in a year. Well at least to 0.38%
-- Geoff Broughton 20:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
As an enlightened encyclopedia ,people should reffer here for many reasons. One of these reasons could be finding out a non common approximation of Pi ,So Although not particularly fashionable ,I wish to extend it to 100 digits. It is very hard to find on the Net ,Unlike the 50 digits version. 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117068
-get a life
[User:Diza|The Procrastinator]] 02:06, 30 December 2005 (UTC) Since 10 days have passed and no further input has been brought upon this issue ,I take it as the community standpoint. please refrein from further revert wars on this subject. The Procrastinator 19:38, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone think creating an article "Digits of Pi", with 10,000 digits or so, is approporiate? Maybe we could also leave 50 digits in the introduction of this article, and adding a section with more digits. -- Meni Rosenfeld 16:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice to know. I think that given the amount of information about pi in this article, there should also be some words (or numerals) regarding what pi really is. Linking to other sites is great, but there should probably be more information within WP. I think I will create such an article unless there is a strong objection. -- Meni Rosenfeld 18:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Object There is really little point in showing large numbers of digits of π anywhere in Wikipedia. What π is, is certain mathematical relations, such as sin(π)=0. The numerical value is less interesting. Fifty digits is much more than enough for any practical application (science, engineering), and no number of digits is enough to resolve any of the deep mathematical issues. Sometimes people use π as a source of pseudo-random digits, but there are better ways to do that nowadays and WP isn't supposed to be a library of mathematical subroutines. Pointing to outside sources is just fine for large numbers of digits. Would you also suggest that WP should have 10,000 digits of e? Of sqrt(2)? Of γ? etc. etc. etc.? -- Macrakis 18:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Object Yes, it's nice to know, but humanity already knows the first few thousand digits of pi, and we've already linked to them. Let's not kid ourselves: the absence of information from Wikipedia does not make it less real, or necessarily any harder to find. In the opposite direction, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. The digits of pi do not demand an article that anyone can edit, and they are not encyclopedic in the sense that the proposed article would forever be a one-sentence substub. The digits of pi don't belong in either half of the Wiki-pedia.
Why do I care? Because the digits of pi don't tell you anything about "what pi really is". That's what this article is for, and if you feel it's insufficient, then it needs more discussion, not more digits. I could create the article "3.14 followed by 10,000 random numbers", and it would be equally enlightening. Melchoir 18:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
For There should be a "More Pi" (or something) section at the bottom of the article that includes several hundred digits. This way the beginning of the article is kept tidy while you still have all of the information. And these digits of pi are important ... if somehow all other works in the world are destroyed along with all computers, but some printout of this page remains, the survivors will need to know the precise value of pi. -- Cyde Weys vote talk 20:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I do hope you are joking -- hard to tell when communicating online, with someone you don't know. -- Macrakis 20:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
For although I admit infint digits do not serve anything ,the external links's digits are diifficult to view ,and this article being So large(and spun off another article) ,we could for the completness of it have a few thousand digits articles
Pi value. unlike e ,whic is used to simplify mathematical calculations and is not really needed, pi's value is of real use. No harm will be done by creating such an article.--
Procrastinating@
talk2me
10:32, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted 10,000 digits from the article. Per this discussion, it seemed like too much. -- Hansnesse 21:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
First of all, let me say that I'm grateful for the anonymous contributions to the history section. I've always thought that Nehemiah misses the point of quoting numbers with limited precision. However, I really think the anons are conflating two separate issues:
I'll revert back to my version. Melchoir 05:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
From the anon: The reason for noting the imprecision of cubits was to counter the argument that one of the measurements should be read as exact. If the cubit *were* defined universally and exactly, one might assume a dimenson was built to that spec, instead of simply measuring approximately that many cubits. (It'd be analogous to a "10-meter diving board", which doesn't simply coincidentally measure approximately 10 meters; it's specifically built to be as close to 10 meters as possible.)
That said, I don't think it's a big enough deal to revert back, as the shorter passage also makes the main point and I haven't seen anyone here actually raise the objection the "not precisely defined" sentence was intended to counter.
-- Anon (JMO from a wireless conn.)
I don't think that the 1 Kings passage and its discussion by Nehemiah belong in the Pi article. At best, they belong in the History of Pi article, but perhaps not even there. Here's why.
The 1 Kings passage itself is not good evidence of knowledge of the value of π. The figures given are round numbers, and I see no reason to expect that they'd be accurate measurements rather than just impressionistic estimates: the specific numbers just tell the reader that it's a very big vat -- a common practice in ancient texts. Applying modern engineering assumptions about "significant figures" is completely anachronistic. For that matter, who says it was precisely circular? Nehemiah's exegesis is tendentious and questionable. The assumptions about the diameter being measured outside the thickness of the vat and the circumference inside its thickness contradict both the text and common sense: it is much more sensible to measure the outside circumference with a rope than to try to measure the inside circumference (how would you even do that?). The analysis also assumes specific values for cubits and hand-breadths which don't correspond to the values documented in cubit and especially not to the ratio of hand-breadths and cubits, which was normally an exact integer (5, 6, or 7). By the time of Nehemiah, π was known rather accurately, so it seems he worked backwards to make the 1 Kings text give the right answer.
So it doesn't make sense to use these numbers either to 'prove' that the Hebrews were terrible mathematicians who thought that π was 3 or fabulous mathematicians who were far ahead of their time and thought it was 355/113). The section does not belong here. -- Macrakis 03:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone pasted in an insane quantity of digits, and on my browser the sequence doesn't even start with 3.14...and also breaks out of its formatting box. With all the links, no reason to clog up the page with thousands of digits, so can someone please cleanup? This is an important article so I'm scared to mess with it myself. Ben Kidwell 18:41, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
or
or
Jclerman 01:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
It appears that I have found a simple way to approximate pi to at least 9 (and likely at least 10) significant digits despite the fact that I am a high school student whose worst subject is math. One day recently, I was curious what my calculator would do if I were to ask it to take .5 factorial. Then, for no particular reason, I had it square the answer and then multiply it by 4. The screen, which shows no more than ten digits of a solution, read 3.141592654. Could someone who knows enough about pi please convince me that 4(.5!)^2 is at least probably not it? I suggest you get right on it as my head is growing at a rate that suggests it may explode at any moment. Ev-Man 18:00, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
The Spanish wikipedia has a pretty nifty little table that depicts various historical approximations of pi. Could someone else take a look and see if it is worth translating into English?
The link for pi to a million places is no more, and it links to a porn site. Frogan 06:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
In other news, I have recently taken a badly-needed chainsaw to the section. Melchoir 07:18, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted an edit to the Prof. Frink quote in the "Fictional references" section. A quick google search seemed to show that the original is correct, but I wanted to throw it open for discussion if others know differently. Thanks, -- Hansnesse 17:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I have a question which someone more informed about math may want to answer in the article. It is obviously not possible to measure the actual ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter to millions of significant digets. Our measuring tools are not that precise. So, how do we know that the mathematically calculated value of pi is actually the ratio that exists in the real world? Even if you decide not to put this information in the main article, I would like to find out the answer to satisfy my own curiosity.
Thanks to all for the quick response to my question. As I understand it from your answers, pi is a mathematical construct derived from a geometrically pefect circle in euclidian space, and is not based upon physical measurements of real objects. My follow up question is "How was the formula for calculating the digits of pi arrived at?" I assume that there must be some sort of mathematical "description" of a perfect circle which is used to derive the formula, but how do you describe a perfect circle in math without using pi? Thanks in advance for your help with this.
OK, we are closing in on the answer now. Macrakis states "you can derive formulae for circumference, area, etc. using the definition of Euclidean distance and calculus." I understand that diameter is 2r, so that part is easy. How do you derive the circumference without using pi, when the only starting data is r? I don't understand how "the definition of Euclidean distance and calculus" gives you this information. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks.
That last explanation is very helpful, and I appreciate it. At the beginning of this topic, I suggested that the answer to my question might be appropriate for inclusion in the article. Sometimes when experts are writing an article, they fail to address issues which they think are too obvious to be addressed, but that a lay reader would appreciate having explained. I leave it up to others to decide whether a section in the article should be written to concisely explain how pi is derived, and why it does not necessarily describe a property of the physical universe.
Perhaps the article Length of an arc should be more widely advertised? The approximation of pi by regular polygons is, IIRC, of historical interest, so that might be expanded upon in this article. Melchoir 03:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way, if you haven't figured it out already, there are ways besides measuring to find the value of pi.
Melchoir, are you sure the link to this book qualifies as spam? I would think an article should refer to books about the subject. Perhaps it should be placed in "References" instead? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 07:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, I happen to have that book. So what you are saying is that it will be a good idea for me to check that the information in the article and in the book match, and if so, include it in the references? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 08:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do. Could take a while though. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Given Wikipedia's rise in popularity since last year, I anticipate an unprecedented rash of vandalism to this article on March 14. It will be tempting to semi-protect the page, but we probably shouldn't. Just saying. Melchoir 19:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
In the trivia section, is there a particular reason why "A9.com" is in bold while "amazon.com" is in italics? Or why the entry should be prefaced by "Corporate pi:" at all? Clark Kent 04:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
How can a program such as Wolfram Mathematica calculate pi to 1*10^7 digits of pi. What formulaass ar ussedd?-- 72.36.198.186
And you don't have to trust mathworld, you can get a very rough estimation of the kth term:
This means that each term is roughly 10^16 times smaller than the one before, so each term gives you roughly 16 additional digits. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 10:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Right. That explains why I got a different result. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 17:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
All the physics equations listed in the article show PI in a product or division with a physical constant, or referring to chosen measuring units. Thus, it's no significative the appereance of PI there. For example, the quantity can be defined as a universal constant itself, and so pi would dissapear. This is more a matter of the units and constants chosen, in all those cases. Probably, there are better equations to write as examples.
From the properties section:
"Because the coordinates of all points that can be constructed with ruler and compass are constructible numbers, it is impossible to square the circle, that is, it is impossible to construct, using ruler and compass alone, a square whose area is equal to the area of a given circle. If you don't know that you are so stupid!"
Just as some random guy looking at the article, that doesn't seem too professional. I'll leave the editing to someone else though.
Edit: didn't realize it was pi appreciation day, was just going through a textbook in preparation for a test and curious as to wikipedia's pi page. Someone probably snuck it on here today.
This article says "As early as the 20th century BC, Babylonian mathematicians were using π=25/8" but in the history of pi article it says that the babylonians started using 25/8 in the 19th century, I didn't want to change anything because I don't know which is right but someone who knows should. William conway bcc 22:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)\
Here's another inconsistency: this article says π stands for περιφέρεια, history of pi says it stands for περιμετρος (sic). -- EJ 23:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
In the properties section, it is written:
pi is an irrational number; that is, it cannot be written as the ratio of two integers, as was proven in 1761 by Johann Heinrich Lambert.
The proof that pi irrational is thousands of years old. The Pythagoreans knew it, and I'm pretty sure it's in Euclid's Elements as well. I edited it but someone keeps reverting it back. Nan Yang 17:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I am not able to spot who put again 1000 digits of pi on this page. I think earlier discussion concluded in that this is of no use on this page.
If s.o. else agrees, please delete this chunk of digits from the section "Numerical approximations".
This section would merit a page on its own. Maybe I'll give it a try.
(The pi page is so huge I don't even dare to edit the preamble with the statement "for more digits, see the links below" which is not really appropriate. The OEIS page cited just before however gives useful links - I would prefer referring to this.) — MFH: Talk 21:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
=> see Talk:History_of_numerical_approximations_of_π
This article is still a mess. Starting from the introduction: Too long, much irrelevant suff (for a "zeroeth section"), many things said twice (Euclidean definition...), others not at all. The "precise" definition should go into a first subsection. A rough approximation (3.14) should be given at the start, etc. etc. — MFH: Talk 16:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I am about 10 years old and need a formula for pi that is as simple as possible. I have been loking for it ever since I learned about pi. Also, I think my IP address is shared with about 10 other people. I had nothing to do with that pi thing. I hardly noticed that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.43.6 ( talk • contribs) 22 March 2006, 02:59 (UTC)
What I mean is something you can do by hand. I want it to be exact to at least hundreds of decimal places. And only kindergaren age kids do that. 64.131.43.6 22:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
The first 103 are available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Numerical_value . What are you using it for? He Who Is 21:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry for a series of subsequent edits to the top section of pi. I think that the several equivalent definitions should go into a separate subsection. It took me about 4 hours to change the formulations in a satisfying way. Unfortunately, when I finally saved it, I had to notice that the table of contents (which I could not see in the previews) interfered with the display of the first two images.
I made some fixes to the problem, but I'm still not very happy with the current state. I would like to have the circle displayed a bit earlier (I initially put it jut before the ==Definition== which looked quite nice, but only without the T.O.C.). To get an idea of what I tried to get, consider the featured article on π on German Wikipedia. — MFH: Talk 18:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Could somebody check the first 1,000,000 digits of pi found on this web site? They were created by Mathematica (Timing[Export["pi1.txt", N[π, 1000000], "List"]]). They are put into nice ,TXT files.
I have made several small revisions to the web site and have moved it to another computer. The site should be currently and permanantly up(I had some small previous problems that have been resolved). How about including it in the article now? In my oppinion the site is very clear and consice. If you have any suggestions on improving it further, please leave a comment here. Otherwise, let's add it...-- BorisFromStockdale 03:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
As a web administrator, I would say that the site must be on a dedicated server that is going to be available and reliable. Otherwise, the linkrot team will eventually notice that it is an unreliable server and they will remove the link. - Corbin Simpson 04:06, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Come to think of it, what in the world is the last item in the current Trivia section talking about? Melchoir 21:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this is a very good article - at the very least it should go on the list of Good Articles. However, would there be any objection to me putting this foward as a featured article candidate? (Has it been already?) CloudNine 18:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I was not able to access this external link: "π available in various lengths, up to 4.2 billion digits" in the main article? --
BorisFromStockdale
06:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Pi is not pronounced with the dipthong "ie" in the english, "pie." The pronunciation of the greek spelling Pi Iota is disputed, but it was with near absolute certainty either the sound represented in the IPA ([ [5]]) as i, "ee," or as I, as the sound in "it" Thanatosimii 04:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
agreed but: In greek, I was taught 'Pee' But of cource math class it is 'Pie' and that is proably what the article implies Minnesota1 04:09, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
following the usual convention for pronunciation of Ancient Greek in English; the Modern Greek pronunciation of π differs.
There is no information about this convention on the page Ancient Greek, and we don't talk about the Modern Greek pronunciation, but about the English pronounciation. (In all other languages (French, German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian....) it is pronounced /pi/ (i.e. pee for those who prefer). (Yes, even in Russian, even though the cyrillic alphabet has the same letter which is not pronounced like this.) — MFH: Talk 21:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
The iamge of the large π was just moved from left to right with the edit summary "Image should not be on the left". This seems brusque; for Heaven;s sake, why not? Septentrionalis 01:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an article that can be reorganised into a featured article. Raising points on discussion: this should be our goal, so where shall we start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natalinasmpf ( talk • contribs) 22:49, 31 March 2006
I endorse anon rm of:
I am unable to verify this plot point via web and have not a copy handy. I will entertain counterargument. John Reid 00:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
64.59.233.88 ( talk · contribs) has added the formula . In my opinion it is a trivial consequence of the formula which appears above, and should be removed. Any objections? If no one objects, I will remove the formula. If we do decide to keep it, then we should also add more important formulae such as . -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 18:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Henning: Yes, it is. Think about it - if you multiply each term by 1/4, you'll be left exactly with the reciprocals of the even squares. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 07:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
While we're at it, how about a comprehensive article "List of formulae involving Pi", including this formula and many others? If not on Wikipedia, is there a sister project where such an article would be appropriate? -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 08:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Why battle first, when we can do it later? :) See List of formulae involving Pi and Talk:List of formulae involving Pi. -- Meni Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:25, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I dont understand the purpose of the 'unrolled' subpage. The use of subpages at all is not standard practice on Wikipedia. If it is just about the word 'unrolled' in terms of pi, then maybe it should be moved to Wiktionary? Other information that might be relevant to pi itself should probably be merged into the pi article. Thoughts? Remy B 08:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I have inserted {{
prod}}, which proposes it for deletion. It is out of place, and in error on two points (marked).
Septentrionalis
23:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
.......................................
Please discuss on page
Talk:Pi/Unrolled.
Lambiam
Talk
06:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Lets keep islam out of it. We call 1940's Van Braun rocketry as 'German', not Nazi. Same as Persian. 23:47, 19 April 2006 by 24.1.24.2 ( talk · contribs)
I don't know where to report this, but the Pi page has been vandilized terribly, look into Properties for starters.