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The contents of the Photoshopping page were merged into Photo manipulation. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I don't think you guys should merge this article with photo editing, as this, I think, is a form of pop culture distinct from conventional editing. - Blakegripling_ph
Just dumping some of my ideas here in case anyone wants to flesh them out.
Early examples. Examples before the internet.
only two or three of the best
only sites which feature regular photoshop contest, and are not too narrow in variety (fictional example: automobilephotoshops.com)
There is already a entry for 'photoshop contests', and those links would be suitable there. This entry is for the process of photoshopping itself, and any major site that displays such images, contest or not, should be linked
There currently arn't 100% sure ways to tell if a picture has been photoshoped or not, people can take a good look at the picture itself, and take a good zoom in and, if edge's that shouldn't be blurred, are blurred(Feathered) this could be a big ruiner of the photoshopers secret.
things like ford? digitally removing a black person from a photograph of thier employees - can't remeber the details.
I don't know what you're talking about, but it wouldn't belong here. There should be a page on image manipulation (there's a red link to image editing on this page) that would include serious instances such as that and Stalin's removal of "non-person" former Party members from historical photos, perhaps with a mention of similar manipulation in Orwell's 1984. Putting those sorts of things on the same page as pictures of "great tits" makes light of serious historic, racial, and philosophical issues and would be a poor, inaccurate juxtaposition. -- BDD 16:58, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I should note that the image given is awful...but I guess since it's suppose to serve as to seperate photoshopping from just humorous images, the stark constast makes a good example. Still. Crtrue
I assume someone thought it was humorous to include 'a pair of great tits' as the primary example of photopped images.
What's the deal with the red cross (The flag of England?) on the chests of the photoshopped tits, anyway? O bli ( Talk) 21:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I've just uploaded Image:Argentina_football_2002_handbag_mockup.jpg, for the England and Argentina football rivalry page. Worth adding here? I thought there might be a "photoshopped" category. Jooler 11:19, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure who cleaned up the external links but that person removed actual photoshopping sites. A couple of them were spam, but not all of the ones that were removed.
This is cut from the discussion page of
User: Alkivar :
When an article is so small, and with two perfectly good images in it already, two more images are really unnecessary.
ALKIVAR
™
22:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The term photoshopping should be called what it is, a "misuse" that contributes to the dumbing-down of professional language. Anyone looking up that term should learn that digital photo manipulation is not limited to Adobe Photoshop. Having a separate page will only tempt those who misuse language to explain the technology of digital photo manipulation on this page instead of the page where it belongs. Oicumayberight 03:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Everything about the term, other than the fact that it's an inaccurate trademark infringement, is original research or redundant to a complete article on digital photo manipulation. Night Gyr ( talk/ Oy) 19:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Strongly Agree. I believe this should be merged, because the term "Photoshopping" is a label for digital image manipulation. "Photoshop" is a noun, not a verb, and should not be used as such. You might as well call word processing "Wording", or driving "Chevying". "Kleenex" doesn't redirect to "Facial tissue" because Kleenex is a brand name, which the article talks about. By your logic, "Photoshopping" should redirect to Adobe Photoshop. Semantics aside, this article simply talks about image manipulation under a different name. If nothing else, all the uses of the terms "photoshopping" and "photoshopped" should be changed to something like "manipulated". Bottom line: "Photoshop" asn't a verb. Stop treating it like one.-- bicostp 18:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Merged/redirected to Photoshop, as Photoshopping just means "to use photoshop" -- photoshopping not just generic image editing, that's "image editing". 216.165.158.7 02:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, from the conversation here it looks like there's a consensus to redirect this to either Photoshop or to image editing or an article of that nature. The number of people calling for a redirect here outnumber those who claim it should stay, not to mention keeping it here as a separate article violates several Wikipedia policies, including Wikipedia:Fork files, WP:Neologisms and so forth. That means a redirect is clearly in order. 216.165.158.7 06:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This really should be redirected, or made a small subsection in Image Manipulation, because that's all "Photoshopping" really is. This is merely a duplicate article.-- bicostp 13:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps converting the page to a redirect, blanking the content. If this is what is needed, we should decide that here, or at least get a poll of editors to see what the arguments are. In my opinion, the large number of BOOKS that use the term photoshopping as a generic verb provide plenty of verifiable sources that this a true common neologism, not a fleeting little-used neologism. The policy on neologisms says not unless there are sufficient verifiable and reliable sources, or something to that effect. We're there. Dicklyon 05:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Please indicate your preference(s) on what to do with this article. The repeated anonymous redirect to Adobe Photoshop seems to be outside the space of sensible possibilities, but all the others have some possible logic to them, so let's at least see where we stand. Dicklyon 04:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep, or possibly merge to photo editing if we can say there that photoshopping is a modern term for photo editing, derived by ripping off Adobe's trademark. Dicklyon 04:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep, the article seems to be appropriate. A merge to an article on photo editing, while perhaps a good idea, seems inappropriate to me because the articles to which this would be merged are about topics only tangentially related: detailed technical methods of such editing are discussed in digital image editing, and non-computerized editing in photo editing. This article is largely concerned with social activity regarding photoshopping and the terms involved. A rename is, perhaps, in order if someone can find a term better than the memetically-popularized "Photoshopping". Nihiltres 15:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Neutral: I've expressed most of my reasons above. This article is high maintenance. There isn't much to say about the term except that it's slang. There is no "photoshopping" technique that isn't better described by a more formal and professional term or article. Yet people are tempted to write about techniques on this article as if there are such techniques that can only be described by the slang term. That's misleading to those who don't know better, competes with professional language, and dumbs down the related professions. I'd be fine with seeing it merged with photo editing. But I don't dispute that there may be enough to say about cultural usage of the slang term to warrant it's own article. I'm experiencing worse scrutiny and disruption over an article that isn't slang, so I empathize with the advocates of keeping this article. I only ask that the advocates to keep also help to keep the technique speak out of the article. Oicumayberight 18:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Merge, "Photoshopping" is merely a slang name for digital image manipulation. I believe it should be a subsection of Photo editing, not in its own duplicate article.-- bicostp 17:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep or Merge to digital image editing. Possible trademark violation, even as a redirect (except the incorrect redirect to Photoshop), but that's a matter for the Foundation. I would have suggested a merge to digital image editing, but that seems to be a more technical article, and a non-technical article on the subject seems appropriate for a slang term. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 16:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Delete/redirect to more appropriate term (voting as such instead of merge as for some insane reason people invoting votes on such things like to try to pretend that merge votes were votes for keeping as is, and if this is deleted certainly anything that might be worth saving could be salvaged... probably put on Photoshop contests for what this article currently has, which is different from standard use of the term) redirect either to Adobe Photoshop or photo editing or image editing or one of the other many similar articles. "Photoshopping" is used in the graphics design world to simply mean edit using Adobe Photoshop. Photoshop is also a trademark. A few kewl kiddies misusing the term for a specific kind of entertainment editing is strictly a nonnotable neologism. And the last thing we need are a bunch of wannabe hip kids making up articles about themselves and insisting the rest of the world treat them as special. DreamGuy 11:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Merge or Keep: I really wish I could come up with a better name for this article, but until someone comes up with that name I would suggest merging with photo editing. As mentioned previously, the title photo editing might seem to be targeted at non-computerized photo editing, but I think with a little luck the two could be merged successfully. Personally, I wouldn't mind having this article be kept, but I think a merge may sooth tensions a bit. Metavida 00:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
There may be consensus that the article should be merged somewhere, but that does not mean it can be arbitrarily redirected without merging. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 19:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Content of this article was more in line with Photoshop contest than any encyclopedic article on Photoshopping in it's full or even slang use, so the text from this article was merged there. It may not read smoothly there, and may have more photos than necessary, but I put a cleanup tag there and certainly the minority of people who wanted this page to be able such contests can go there and clean it up to their liking.
I redirected this term to photo manipulation article, as it was more in line with what the term meant (though technically Adobe Photoshop would have made more sense, but we have to go with consensus I guess). It appears someone else just moved photo manipulation elsewhere, so that may have to get cleaned up later.
But, bottomline here is that the Photoshopping article no longer exists, as it was clear from discussion that it never should have in the first place but that a few editors with misplaced motives ignored for a long time and edit warred across several articles over. Kind of sucks that even an admin or two was involved, but then I guess even admins can make mistakes and work in bad faith. 216.165.158.7 18:19, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
As far as the poll is going, I am seeing a general consensus that this article, and perhaps some related articles, should be merged into one longer and hopefully more encyclopedic article. The real question is: to where should we move this content? In my humble opinion, the article clearly deals with what photoshopping has been called, and how it happens in a social context, especially given the "competitive photoshopping" section I merged in earlier. Photoshopping is in and of itself digital manipulation of pixels, whether or not those pixels originally came from a camera or were created from scratch. It is, however, usually based off of images originally taken from some sort of camera, so the "photo manipulation" moniker may be appropriate, if merged well as a subsection of the idea of the culture involved. I'm not - by any means - sure about this, so please, if you have a good suggestion about where this article should be merged, announce it here, and present good reasons for your suggestion. Let's figure out where this content should go, rationally and through consensus - our ultimate goal here is to improve the encyclopedia. A single article dealing with the subject is most likely to be able to cover the subject well, and perhaps if we can agree on something, we can eventually push it to GA or even FA. Ideas? Nihiltres 21:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Mr.7 thinks we need to flush the neologism "photoshopping". My impression based on searching books and things was that it has become a pretty well established term; and my impression was that others here agreed. So we have a different perception of what the consensus is/was on this. So, how about another poll? Flush it, or keep the term photoshopping in some article about photo editing?
OK, lacking any real opposition, I'll assume the current treatment of photoshopping is OK. So we can now redirect photoshopping to photo editing, right? If someone objects, claiming a consensus that nobody is willing to support here as far as I can tell, or removes the photoshopping section from the photo editing article, we can always go back. Dicklyon 06:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem here is that what Dicylon claims is the definition of "Photoshopping" isn't, and the sources he has to support his side do not meet WP:RS guidelines and are majorly contradicted by multiple high quality sites that do meet the reliability guidelines. There's no point in making this be a whole article when the meaning is either "edit using Adobe Photoshop" or a nonstandard WP:NEOLOGISM that it just means photo editing in general (which alreay has an article), and NOT "kids playing around with photos separate from the normal definition of photo editing" like Dickylon wants. We have policies here we have to follow, so we're going to follow them. DreamGuy 00:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
The contents of the Photoshopping page were merged into Photo manipulation. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I don't think you guys should merge this article with photo editing, as this, I think, is a form of pop culture distinct from conventional editing. - Blakegripling_ph
Just dumping some of my ideas here in case anyone wants to flesh them out.
Early examples. Examples before the internet.
only two or three of the best
only sites which feature regular photoshop contest, and are not too narrow in variety (fictional example: automobilephotoshops.com)
There is already a entry for 'photoshop contests', and those links would be suitable there. This entry is for the process of photoshopping itself, and any major site that displays such images, contest or not, should be linked
There currently arn't 100% sure ways to tell if a picture has been photoshoped or not, people can take a good look at the picture itself, and take a good zoom in and, if edge's that shouldn't be blurred, are blurred(Feathered) this could be a big ruiner of the photoshopers secret.
things like ford? digitally removing a black person from a photograph of thier employees - can't remeber the details.
I don't know what you're talking about, but it wouldn't belong here. There should be a page on image manipulation (there's a red link to image editing on this page) that would include serious instances such as that and Stalin's removal of "non-person" former Party members from historical photos, perhaps with a mention of similar manipulation in Orwell's 1984. Putting those sorts of things on the same page as pictures of "great tits" makes light of serious historic, racial, and philosophical issues and would be a poor, inaccurate juxtaposition. -- BDD 16:58, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I should note that the image given is awful...but I guess since it's suppose to serve as to seperate photoshopping from just humorous images, the stark constast makes a good example. Still. Crtrue
I assume someone thought it was humorous to include 'a pair of great tits' as the primary example of photopped images.
What's the deal with the red cross (The flag of England?) on the chests of the photoshopped tits, anyway? O bli ( Talk) 21:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I've just uploaded Image:Argentina_football_2002_handbag_mockup.jpg, for the England and Argentina football rivalry page. Worth adding here? I thought there might be a "photoshopped" category. Jooler 11:19, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure who cleaned up the external links but that person removed actual photoshopping sites. A couple of them were spam, but not all of the ones that were removed.
This is cut from the discussion page of
User: Alkivar :
When an article is so small, and with two perfectly good images in it already, two more images are really unnecessary.
ALKIVAR
™
22:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The term photoshopping should be called what it is, a "misuse" that contributes to the dumbing-down of professional language. Anyone looking up that term should learn that digital photo manipulation is not limited to Adobe Photoshop. Having a separate page will only tempt those who misuse language to explain the technology of digital photo manipulation on this page instead of the page where it belongs. Oicumayberight 03:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Everything about the term, other than the fact that it's an inaccurate trademark infringement, is original research or redundant to a complete article on digital photo manipulation. Night Gyr ( talk/ Oy) 19:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Strongly Agree. I believe this should be merged, because the term "Photoshopping" is a label for digital image manipulation. "Photoshop" is a noun, not a verb, and should not be used as such. You might as well call word processing "Wording", or driving "Chevying". "Kleenex" doesn't redirect to "Facial tissue" because Kleenex is a brand name, which the article talks about. By your logic, "Photoshopping" should redirect to Adobe Photoshop. Semantics aside, this article simply talks about image manipulation under a different name. If nothing else, all the uses of the terms "photoshopping" and "photoshopped" should be changed to something like "manipulated". Bottom line: "Photoshop" asn't a verb. Stop treating it like one.-- bicostp 18:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Merged/redirected to Photoshop, as Photoshopping just means "to use photoshop" -- photoshopping not just generic image editing, that's "image editing". 216.165.158.7 02:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, from the conversation here it looks like there's a consensus to redirect this to either Photoshop or to image editing or an article of that nature. The number of people calling for a redirect here outnumber those who claim it should stay, not to mention keeping it here as a separate article violates several Wikipedia policies, including Wikipedia:Fork files, WP:Neologisms and so forth. That means a redirect is clearly in order. 216.165.158.7 06:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This really should be redirected, or made a small subsection in Image Manipulation, because that's all "Photoshopping" really is. This is merely a duplicate article.-- bicostp 13:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps converting the page to a redirect, blanking the content. If this is what is needed, we should decide that here, or at least get a poll of editors to see what the arguments are. In my opinion, the large number of BOOKS that use the term photoshopping as a generic verb provide plenty of verifiable sources that this a true common neologism, not a fleeting little-used neologism. The policy on neologisms says not unless there are sufficient verifiable and reliable sources, or something to that effect. We're there. Dicklyon 05:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Please indicate your preference(s) on what to do with this article. The repeated anonymous redirect to Adobe Photoshop seems to be outside the space of sensible possibilities, but all the others have some possible logic to them, so let's at least see where we stand. Dicklyon 04:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep, or possibly merge to photo editing if we can say there that photoshopping is a modern term for photo editing, derived by ripping off Adobe's trademark. Dicklyon 04:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep, the article seems to be appropriate. A merge to an article on photo editing, while perhaps a good idea, seems inappropriate to me because the articles to which this would be merged are about topics only tangentially related: detailed technical methods of such editing are discussed in digital image editing, and non-computerized editing in photo editing. This article is largely concerned with social activity regarding photoshopping and the terms involved. A rename is, perhaps, in order if someone can find a term better than the memetically-popularized "Photoshopping". Nihiltres 15:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Neutral: I've expressed most of my reasons above. This article is high maintenance. There isn't much to say about the term except that it's slang. There is no "photoshopping" technique that isn't better described by a more formal and professional term or article. Yet people are tempted to write about techniques on this article as if there are such techniques that can only be described by the slang term. That's misleading to those who don't know better, competes with professional language, and dumbs down the related professions. I'd be fine with seeing it merged with photo editing. But I don't dispute that there may be enough to say about cultural usage of the slang term to warrant it's own article. I'm experiencing worse scrutiny and disruption over an article that isn't slang, so I empathize with the advocates of keeping this article. I only ask that the advocates to keep also help to keep the technique speak out of the article. Oicumayberight 18:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Merge, "Photoshopping" is merely a slang name for digital image manipulation. I believe it should be a subsection of Photo editing, not in its own duplicate article.-- bicostp 17:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Keep or Merge to digital image editing. Possible trademark violation, even as a redirect (except the incorrect redirect to Photoshop), but that's a matter for the Foundation. I would have suggested a merge to digital image editing, but that seems to be a more technical article, and a non-technical article on the subject seems appropriate for a slang term. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 16:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Delete/redirect to more appropriate term (voting as such instead of merge as for some insane reason people invoting votes on such things like to try to pretend that merge votes were votes for keeping as is, and if this is deleted certainly anything that might be worth saving could be salvaged... probably put on Photoshop contests for what this article currently has, which is different from standard use of the term) redirect either to Adobe Photoshop or photo editing or image editing or one of the other many similar articles. "Photoshopping" is used in the graphics design world to simply mean edit using Adobe Photoshop. Photoshop is also a trademark. A few kewl kiddies misusing the term for a specific kind of entertainment editing is strictly a nonnotable neologism. And the last thing we need are a bunch of wannabe hip kids making up articles about themselves and insisting the rest of the world treat them as special. DreamGuy 11:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Merge or Keep: I really wish I could come up with a better name for this article, but until someone comes up with that name I would suggest merging with photo editing. As mentioned previously, the title photo editing might seem to be targeted at non-computerized photo editing, but I think with a little luck the two could be merged successfully. Personally, I wouldn't mind having this article be kept, but I think a merge may sooth tensions a bit. Metavida 00:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
There may be consensus that the article should be merged somewhere, but that does not mean it can be arbitrarily redirected without merging. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 19:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Content of this article was more in line with Photoshop contest than any encyclopedic article on Photoshopping in it's full or even slang use, so the text from this article was merged there. It may not read smoothly there, and may have more photos than necessary, but I put a cleanup tag there and certainly the minority of people who wanted this page to be able such contests can go there and clean it up to their liking.
I redirected this term to photo manipulation article, as it was more in line with what the term meant (though technically Adobe Photoshop would have made more sense, but we have to go with consensus I guess). It appears someone else just moved photo manipulation elsewhere, so that may have to get cleaned up later.
But, bottomline here is that the Photoshopping article no longer exists, as it was clear from discussion that it never should have in the first place but that a few editors with misplaced motives ignored for a long time and edit warred across several articles over. Kind of sucks that even an admin or two was involved, but then I guess even admins can make mistakes and work in bad faith. 216.165.158.7 18:19, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
As far as the poll is going, I am seeing a general consensus that this article, and perhaps some related articles, should be merged into one longer and hopefully more encyclopedic article. The real question is: to where should we move this content? In my humble opinion, the article clearly deals with what photoshopping has been called, and how it happens in a social context, especially given the "competitive photoshopping" section I merged in earlier. Photoshopping is in and of itself digital manipulation of pixels, whether or not those pixels originally came from a camera or were created from scratch. It is, however, usually based off of images originally taken from some sort of camera, so the "photo manipulation" moniker may be appropriate, if merged well as a subsection of the idea of the culture involved. I'm not - by any means - sure about this, so please, if you have a good suggestion about where this article should be merged, announce it here, and present good reasons for your suggestion. Let's figure out where this content should go, rationally and through consensus - our ultimate goal here is to improve the encyclopedia. A single article dealing with the subject is most likely to be able to cover the subject well, and perhaps if we can agree on something, we can eventually push it to GA or even FA. Ideas? Nihiltres 21:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Mr.7 thinks we need to flush the neologism "photoshopping". My impression based on searching books and things was that it has become a pretty well established term; and my impression was that others here agreed. So we have a different perception of what the consensus is/was on this. So, how about another poll? Flush it, or keep the term photoshopping in some article about photo editing?
OK, lacking any real opposition, I'll assume the current treatment of photoshopping is OK. So we can now redirect photoshopping to photo editing, right? If someone objects, claiming a consensus that nobody is willing to support here as far as I can tell, or removes the photoshopping section from the photo editing article, we can always go back. Dicklyon 06:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem here is that what Dicylon claims is the definition of "Photoshopping" isn't, and the sources he has to support his side do not meet WP:RS guidelines and are majorly contradicted by multiple high quality sites that do meet the reliability guidelines. There's no point in making this be a whole article when the meaning is either "edit using Adobe Photoshop" or a nonstandard WP:NEOLOGISM that it just means photo editing in general (which alreay has an article), and NOT "kids playing around with photos separate from the normal definition of photo editing" like Dickylon wants. We have policies here we have to follow, so we're going to follow them. DreamGuy 00:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)