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This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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This article has no info what happened to her after she surrendered or about her later election to parliament in India. Someone knowledgeable on the subject should add such info. -- Cab88 01:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Being nominated for the Peace Prize is an honor, but it is not official or even prestigious. Any national legislator or about a third of the university professors in the world can make a nomination, and there have been as many as 140 some years. Nominators are requested to keep their nominations secret, so it's only those wishing publicity who make announcements, and more often it is impossible to verify. Further, in this case we only have the subject's own word in the matter. I see no reason to keep it. No offense to the subject, this is a general Nobel Peace Prize "nominees" issue. - Will Beback · † · 07:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
First of all, this article is informative and well written grammatically. My only problem is that much of it reads like a plot synopsis from a movie. I`m not going to try and fix it, without having any knowledge on the subject beyond what is presented in the article, but if the original author (or any else who is knowledeable) is around maybe they could take a look at that. Thanks. Random89 19:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
(I suppose the fact that it came from an individual half way around the world has no meaning?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.27.12.200 ( talk) 16:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
This article may be somewhat informative but it's NOT well written in any way. I came to the page hoping to learn a little more. I learned a little more and that was it. Very few references are given. The article is biased and is clearly not in favor of the subject (the references to her sharp tongue, how the "cops gave her a sound thrashing" etc.) What I did take away from it is that basically a used, abused girl found the courage of a lion and roared......quite loudly. Nobody liked it (no they certainly did not) and proceeded to try to undo her in anyway possible. That may not be correct, but neither is this interpretation of her life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 ( talk) 06:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I want to agree here that this article is blatantly biased in a sexist way, the most shocking section being PD's early life: "Although her father acknowledged that there was some sense to this act, and agreed to it with mild protest, the 11-year-old Phoolan confronted her much older cousin. She taunted him, publicly called him a thief and attacked him physically." Consider here that we are talking about an 11-year-old child while her cousin was a grown man. The article implicitly blames the girl of actually abusing and taunting a supposedly helpless man, which does not sound very convincing. It takes the cousin's side in the land dispute, without providing any evidence, even though it would seem reasonable that both families should share the land, while cutting someone else's tree is not a very nice thing to do. Consequently, it makes the young child sound like an anti-social maniac. It then gets worse. "Phoolan's uncle arranged to have her married to a man named Putti Lal, who lived several hundred miles away and was 20 years older than she ... Phoolan Devi's husband tried to discipline her and make her behave in a more docile and compliant manner, which was agonizing for her to endure, given that she was of fractious and quarrelsome disposition even within her own family..." Here we have a case of socially-approved pedophilia and child abuse, and the article, again, takes the side of the social norms that allow this to happen. The child who protests this is of a "fractious and quarrelsome disposition". It is also implied that marrying an 11-year-old girl to a 31-year-old man is an appropriate response to such a "quarrelsome" child. I suggest all the understatements and value judgements such as "disciplining", "quarrelsome and fractious" as well as opinions about the land dispute are removed from the article. Timegoesbackwards ( talk) 15:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Comment: The first version is taken from a Bollywood film and is far more exciting and stereotyped. So people like it more. The second version is called 'mythical' though Phoolan says that is what happened, possibly because it is so dull and not at all exotic.
Comment: According to Phoolan Devi herself, the land dispute was among her family members and this was the motivation behind her first public protest. The courts decided against her father, and she made the unheard of gesture of protesting to authorities about the decision when he would not. She said that leaving this part of her life out of the film Bandit Queen was enough to make it "not about my life". She said they did not even mention her uncle, whom she believed to be behind most of the horrors of her young life, including the ill-fated first marriage, after this confrontation. As usual, Wiki has only a few of the facts, and glosses over some pretty important ones. There are enough facts on record about this person that they could easily have made a movie about them and it would have been just as stunning. Devi's comments about her multiple rapes are quite interesting. For starters, read the Mary Anne Weaver articles, noted at the end of the entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mau4 ( talk • contribs) 16:06, 21 Aug 2007 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned it is not true that men were killed in Behmai. Phoolan Devi wanted to take revenge for what they had done to her and other girls and women of lower castes, and decided that cutting off their penisses would be analogous to rape. elisaz 13:02, 18 March 2008
This article contains stupefyingly little referencing of any sort. Most of the so called information disseminated in it, appears not to have any supporting evidence. Long and drawn out episodes characterise her relationship with her husbands' "Second wife", without any references cited.
This article is ungrammatical, poorly spelt, and contains numerous errors of ommission and commission. It reads like a penny potboiler, and does not qualify at all as unbiased, containing as it does unquantifiable gems such as "her family was very poor, but not poorest in village" (sic).
Please edit this article, or proclaim it a candidate for speedy deletion. It does not contribute to a meaningful or even indisputably correct understanding of the subject at hand.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspuar ( talk • contribs) 19:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Yea I agree, this article is atrocious, it doesn't even have any paragraphs, it's just a bunch of sentences with line breaks. Not to mention stuff like this: "The experience broke her body but ignited her hatred for men who routinely denigrated women.", it just sounds like poorly-written propaganda. I think she needs an article, but can we PLEASE do some work on it? 128.223.184.235 ( talk) 13:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)AOEU
i think every unverifiable sentence in this article should be deleted. i am happy to do this work, but as i am a noob i'm not sure if its OK for just one user like myself to edit it in such an extreme way.. is it? PlasticShark ( talk) 22:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Please delete this Bio of Phoolan Devi! It reeks of animosity, and lacks clarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4301:BA90:D1D:4856:6BE6:8601 ( talk) 10:07, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Anyone able to verify that photo Devi_surrender.jpg in any convincing manner? -- Itu ( talk) 11:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
This is an incredibly biased article. Why is forty-eight italicized? Why is the marital rape by the husband never mentioned? Why is the fact that she killed men because they would not tell her where the rapists are not mentioned? Why are biased words such as "simply" included? I don't feel I can trust any information in this article, as the wording is so clearly biased against this person. 103.14.125.195 ( talk) 18:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
I was sad to check this article and see that deceased MP Phoolan Devi (AKA Bandit Queen) has such an under-maintained presence on Wikipedia. The article is written in non-standard English (colloquialisms abound); the tone is not what would be expected from an encyclopedia; the article lacks citations in important areas; citations that do exist contain errors in the links; too much extraneous information is given on Phoolan Devi's early life (in-laws and childhood family) without attribution; insufficient attention is given to Phoolan's later life as an Indian MP.
This article really requires some love and care from an SME. I'm not one, otherwise I'd pitch in. (Everyone's a critic--I know!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skunkhaus ( talk • contribs) 17:43, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
A "moll" is the female companion of a male professional criminal. This is therefore not a proper description of Phoolan Devi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.149.20 ( talk) 13:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Has the case for "Moll" as in "Vikram Mallah's moll" been made? SukiKF ( talk) 22:25, 4 November 2014 (UTC) SukiKF 22.24, 04 Nov 2014 (GMT)
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I'm not sure, but it seems that the word caste is being used where the word jāti should be? Caste equals Varna (Shudra, Vaishya, Kshatriya, Brahmin, and Dalit), jāti equals endogamous groups of similar profession, such as 'boatman' or 'perfume seller'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.73.154 ( talk) 02:14, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes weren't supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Consider re-submitting with content based on media, books and scholarly works. |
In 2017, Iranian director Hossein Martin Fazeli announced the production of PHOOLAN, a documentary film about Phoolan’s life. It hasn't finished production yet but is set to be released sometime in 2018. Could someone add this information under the section Movie and autobiography? Sources: [2]; [3] (Note: I have disclosed a conflict of interest with Roads & Kingdoms. I am not paid for my contributions.) WillA98 ( talk) 18:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Notes
This article is ridiculously biased and is founded upon a lack of cited sources. Please rewrite or delete this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.196.83.254 ( talk) 14:40, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
I think people should read and compare the two versions and judge for themselves. The other version seems to have an agenda to simply damn India, its society, its family culture, and above all, its religion. It is a page of apologetics for a bandit who murdered many people and looted many others. Poverty is pervasive in India and we all live in the same "dirty" country; how many of us become bandits? It surely cannot be right to blame all and sundry for crimes committed by one very damaged personality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.20.116 ( talk) 15:52, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please rewrite this entire article ? Wikipedia primary purpose is to disseminate information,not tell stories.The article can be trimmed by getting rid of minor or unnecessary details. Prav001 ( talk) 05:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Phoolan is mentioned a few times in the Satanic Verses, indeed the fact that I’m reading it is the only reason I looked her up on WP. Could we have a section devoted to media depictions of her? Then we could mention both the film about her and the Satanic Verses in that section. Overlordnat1 ( talk) 17:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Larataguera ( talk · contribs) 23:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
I will review this article and post an initial review in the next few days. Larataguera ( talk) 23:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
Early life
Mallahs were a subcaste of Shudrapossibly excessive detail, especially since many readers won't know what Shudra is. Clarify and link, or delete.
successfully plotted to steal-> stole. Also delete
They forced Devidin to relinquish the land. (This is implied if the land is stolen).
They continued to harass...pronoun ambiguous
Back in Gorha Ka Purwa...-> "When she returned home..." or "When she returned to Gorha Ka Purwa..." would be clearer. And then
the second son of the village leader-> "The village leader's son..."
Bandit Queen
For reasons that Devi has explained in multiple ways...This says almost nothing. Delete.I
...came to seize her...-> When did this happen? Can we start this section with a date? There may be too much detail about the kidnapping. (Especially since the Atlantic says,
Phoolan's own accounts have varied significantly.The first sentences could just say: "On [date], a gang of bandits led by Babu Gujjar kidnapped Devi and took her away into the ravines."
After 72 hours
Speaking through a loudhailer, she demanded that the villagers hand over Shri Ram and Lalla Ram, then her gang went from house to house looting valuablesis a comma splice. Use a semicolon. ("...Lalla Ram; then ...")
Whilst Devi was on the run, her mother was held for five months in Kalpi prison. Maybe not needed. If it is, it shouldn't be the first sentence of this paragraph, which should have a more general topic sentence
Political career
Popular culture
Devi's autobiography I, Phoolan Devi was dictated by her onto tape and then edited into a book which was published first in French and then other...-> "Devi dictated her autobiography, I, Phoolan Devi and it was published in 1996, first in French, and then other..."
Moxham reported that she then renounced Buddhism.redundant from previous sentence. Delete.
In his autobiography (published in 2021), Farrukh Dhondy, the commissioning editor at Channel 4, described how he rushed to Delhi to sign a cheque to get Umed Singh to persuade Devi to drop her complaint. Moxham writes that when Devi discovered Singh had taken this payment, they became estranged, before later reconciling again.Excessive detail?
Legacy
Media theorist Sandra Ponzanesi sees Devi's life as an exemplary case of a postcolonial subject attempting to preserve their agency in the face of an Orientalist gaze.What's that mean exactly? Is it possible to say this simpler language?
Media theorist Sandra Ponzanesi takes Devi as an example of a Third World postcolonial subject who is well aware of the racist and patronising attitudes First World analysts can have of her.
Lisa Ray was reported to be the main voice artist...-> "Lisa Ray was the main voice artist". Or, is Lisa Ray's involvement excessive detail? "In 2019 Hossein Martin Fazeli produced a documentary..."
Lead:
The Behmai massacre was a controversial event which she claimed not to have organised.only makes sense if we've established that other people claimed that she did command it. Her imprisonment, later legal troubles, and eventual assassination seem to revolve around this event. Larataguera ( talk) 21:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The 1981 Behmai massacre was a controversial event in which twenty Thakur men were executedbe rephrased to clarify how the massacre is related to Phoolan Devi? Maybe "Phoolan Devi faced murder charges for the 1981 Behmai massacre in which twenty Thakur men were executed"? Or "Phoolan Devi allegedly ordered the 1981 Behmai massacre in which..." Larataguera ( talk) 02:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Scholar Tatiana Szurlej notes that the facts presented in these biographies often contradict each other, despite coming from interviews with Devi herself.in the lead. Larataguera ( talk) 01:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Devi campaigned with limited success for the rights of women and to provide better amenities for the poor. She told Roy Moxham "I want to bring hospitals, schools, electricity and clean water to the poor in the villages. To stop child marriage and to improve life for women.The rest of that section is actually about her murder charges.
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
Hello Phoolan Devi:
WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long
Good Article Editathon event in June 2023!
Running from June 1 to 30, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) editathon event – Wildcard Edition! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to any and all women and women's works during the event period. Want to improve an article about a Bollywood actress? Go for it. A pioneering female climate scientist? Absolutely. An award-winning book or film by a woman? Yes! GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to receive a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.
We hope to see you there!
Mujinga ( talk) 16:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)In the Legacy section, the article states that Shirish Korde's opera Phoolan Devi: The Bandit Queen had its premiere at the University of Boston. This is incorrect. While some careless Boston reviewers (like the source currently cited in the article) mistakenly claimed that the performance in Boston on April 23 was the premiere, the work (which should be credited to both Korde and Lynn Kremer, who co-wrote the libretto and designed and directed the 2010 production) actually had its first performance at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, on April 15, 2010. Both Korde and Kremer are on the faculty of the College of the Holy Cross, and apart from the lead singers the cast in both Worcester and Boston consisted largely of Holy Cross students. There were several performances in Worcester before the production moved to Boston the following weekend. This was correctly reported in the Boston Globe: see Matthew Guerrieri, "'Bandit Queen' Chronicles a Complicated Heroine," Boston Globe, 26 April 2010, page G5 ( archived from Boston.com on 25 Oct 2012); as well as at Stanford University's Opening Nights database of opera and oratorio premieres. Photos from the Holy Cross performances are online at the web site of the HC Theater Dept. (Full disclosure: I am unaffiliated with the college myself, but my wife teaches there, although not in the theater or music departments. I attended one of those first performances, and it was fantastic.) – Choliamb ( talk) 14:22, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
@ Nikkimaria the FAC got closed, slightly prematurely perhaps since we were still discussing FN33, but hopefully it doesn't need read re-opening because I'd argue The Economic Times (used twice) is not covered by WP:TOI. Yes they are both owned by The Times Group, but that's like New Scientist being owned by the Daily Mail and General Trust, which also publishes the Daily Mail. Mujinga ( talk) 10:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @ Tayi Arajakate, I reverted your recent edits and would if it's OK with you like to discuss them here. The article has been made a featured article after helpful comments at GA and PR, so I would say a consensus on for example caste and OBC has at least roughly been established already. I don't doubt that you know more than me about India in pretty much every way since I know very little, but I have read all the sources I've been able to get my hands on regarding Phoolan Devi.
"as news of Phoolan Devi's exploits spread, she became popular with the Other Backward Classes, who called her Dasyu Sundari (Beautiful Bandit) and celebrated her as a Robin Hood figure, who robbed from the rich to give to the poor"use the term "lower caste" rather than OBC, and they are not inter-changeable. OBC is an official categorisation that was introduced for caste related affirmative action for those groups who didn't fall under the SC (used for Dalits) or ST (used for Adivasis) categorisation but were identified to be marginalised, now there is controversy around who should or shouldn't be in each of these categories, using it doesn't make sense in this context. Lower caste is the relevant sociological term that bypasses all these categorisation problems to simply refer to anyone that is and feels marginalised.
As far as I can see we have five discussion points open. I will take them one by one and hopefully we can find solutions.
1 Use of India Today @ Tayi Arajakate questions the use of IT, AryKun says it's ok, I don't see a problem with it.
2 Lower castes versus OBC in lead - seems like we all agree to use "lower castes".
As news of Phoolan Devi's exploits spread, she became popular with the Other Backward Classes, who called her Dasyu Sundari (Beautiful Bandit) and celebrated her as a Robin Hood figure, who robbed from the rich to give to the poor
3 Dalits / OBC
She was celebrated among Dalits (people at the bottom of the caste system) for fighting back against her abuse by men of a higher caste and when she eluded capture by the authorities her fame grew
Mallah people were happy to have someone of their caste representing them in parliament for the first time and she was generally popular among Other Backward Classes
Other sources:
Not currently in article:
4 - The note on caste. This currently reads Indian society is divided into four castes or social classes. From top to bottom these are: Brahmin (priests), Kshatriya (warriors), Vaishya (traders) and Shudra (labourers).[5]: 194 Underneath these four classes are the Dalits, also known as the untouchables.[6]
.
5 rupees - correct sums in article?
OK so moving forward withb the suggestions:
The lead in this article is a mess. The murder she was accused of are being labelled 'executions,' a cult status is being labelled 'heroine.' Blatant WP:NPOV and WP:PUFF violations. LΞVIXIUS 💬 16:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
For TFA, 1461 characters, no fair-use foto:
Phoolan Devi (1963–2001), popularly known as the Bandit Queen, was an Indian dacoit (bandit) who later became a politician. She was a woman of the Mallah subcaste who grew up in poverty in the state of Uttar Pradesh, where her parents lost a land dispute. After being married off at the age of eleven and being sexually abused by various people, she joined a gang of dacoits which robbed higher-caste villages and held up trains and vehicles. When she became its leader, she punished her rapists and evaded capture by the authorities, making her a heroine for the Other Backward Classes. She was charged in absentia for the 1981 Behmai massacre, in which twenty Thakur men were executed, allegedly on her command. After this event, the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh resigned, and calls to apprehend her were amplified. She surrendered two years later and spent eleven years in Gwalior prison awaiting trial, then was released in 1994 after her charges were set aside. She was subsequently elected as a member of parliament for the Samajwadi Party in 1996. She lost her seat in 1998 and regained it the following year; she was the incumbent in 2001, when she was assassinated outside her home in New Delhi. Her worldwide fame had grown after the release of the controversial 1994 film Bandit Queen, which she did not approve of. There are varying accounts of her life because she told differing versions to suit her changing circumstances. (Full article...) Mujinga ( talk) 23:57, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
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Phoolan Devi is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||
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This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
This article has no info what happened to her after she surrendered or about her later election to parliament in India. Someone knowledgeable on the subject should add such info. -- Cab88 01:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Being nominated for the Peace Prize is an honor, but it is not official or even prestigious. Any national legislator or about a third of the university professors in the world can make a nomination, and there have been as many as 140 some years. Nominators are requested to keep their nominations secret, so it's only those wishing publicity who make announcements, and more often it is impossible to verify. Further, in this case we only have the subject's own word in the matter. I see no reason to keep it. No offense to the subject, this is a general Nobel Peace Prize "nominees" issue. - Will Beback · † · 07:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
First of all, this article is informative and well written grammatically. My only problem is that much of it reads like a plot synopsis from a movie. I`m not going to try and fix it, without having any knowledge on the subject beyond what is presented in the article, but if the original author (or any else who is knowledeable) is around maybe they could take a look at that. Thanks. Random89 19:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
(I suppose the fact that it came from an individual half way around the world has no meaning?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.27.12.200 ( talk) 16:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
This article may be somewhat informative but it's NOT well written in any way. I came to the page hoping to learn a little more. I learned a little more and that was it. Very few references are given. The article is biased and is clearly not in favor of the subject (the references to her sharp tongue, how the "cops gave her a sound thrashing" etc.) What I did take away from it is that basically a used, abused girl found the courage of a lion and roared......quite loudly. Nobody liked it (no they certainly did not) and proceeded to try to undo her in anyway possible. That may not be correct, but neither is this interpretation of her life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 ( talk) 06:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I want to agree here that this article is blatantly biased in a sexist way, the most shocking section being PD's early life: "Although her father acknowledged that there was some sense to this act, and agreed to it with mild protest, the 11-year-old Phoolan confronted her much older cousin. She taunted him, publicly called him a thief and attacked him physically." Consider here that we are talking about an 11-year-old child while her cousin was a grown man. The article implicitly blames the girl of actually abusing and taunting a supposedly helpless man, which does not sound very convincing. It takes the cousin's side in the land dispute, without providing any evidence, even though it would seem reasonable that both families should share the land, while cutting someone else's tree is not a very nice thing to do. Consequently, it makes the young child sound like an anti-social maniac. It then gets worse. "Phoolan's uncle arranged to have her married to a man named Putti Lal, who lived several hundred miles away and was 20 years older than she ... Phoolan Devi's husband tried to discipline her and make her behave in a more docile and compliant manner, which was agonizing for her to endure, given that she was of fractious and quarrelsome disposition even within her own family..." Here we have a case of socially-approved pedophilia and child abuse, and the article, again, takes the side of the social norms that allow this to happen. The child who protests this is of a "fractious and quarrelsome disposition". It is also implied that marrying an 11-year-old girl to a 31-year-old man is an appropriate response to such a "quarrelsome" child. I suggest all the understatements and value judgements such as "disciplining", "quarrelsome and fractious" as well as opinions about the land dispute are removed from the article. Timegoesbackwards ( talk) 15:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Comment: The first version is taken from a Bollywood film and is far more exciting and stereotyped. So people like it more. The second version is called 'mythical' though Phoolan says that is what happened, possibly because it is so dull and not at all exotic.
Comment: According to Phoolan Devi herself, the land dispute was among her family members and this was the motivation behind her first public protest. The courts decided against her father, and she made the unheard of gesture of protesting to authorities about the decision when he would not. She said that leaving this part of her life out of the film Bandit Queen was enough to make it "not about my life". She said they did not even mention her uncle, whom she believed to be behind most of the horrors of her young life, including the ill-fated first marriage, after this confrontation. As usual, Wiki has only a few of the facts, and glosses over some pretty important ones. There are enough facts on record about this person that they could easily have made a movie about them and it would have been just as stunning. Devi's comments about her multiple rapes are quite interesting. For starters, read the Mary Anne Weaver articles, noted at the end of the entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mau4 ( talk • contribs) 16:06, 21 Aug 2007 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned it is not true that men were killed in Behmai. Phoolan Devi wanted to take revenge for what they had done to her and other girls and women of lower castes, and decided that cutting off their penisses would be analogous to rape. elisaz 13:02, 18 March 2008
This article contains stupefyingly little referencing of any sort. Most of the so called information disseminated in it, appears not to have any supporting evidence. Long and drawn out episodes characterise her relationship with her husbands' "Second wife", without any references cited.
This article is ungrammatical, poorly spelt, and contains numerous errors of ommission and commission. It reads like a penny potboiler, and does not qualify at all as unbiased, containing as it does unquantifiable gems such as "her family was very poor, but not poorest in village" (sic).
Please edit this article, or proclaim it a candidate for speedy deletion. It does not contribute to a meaningful or even indisputably correct understanding of the subject at hand.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspuar ( talk • contribs) 19:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Yea I agree, this article is atrocious, it doesn't even have any paragraphs, it's just a bunch of sentences with line breaks. Not to mention stuff like this: "The experience broke her body but ignited her hatred for men who routinely denigrated women.", it just sounds like poorly-written propaganda. I think she needs an article, but can we PLEASE do some work on it? 128.223.184.235 ( talk) 13:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)AOEU
i think every unverifiable sentence in this article should be deleted. i am happy to do this work, but as i am a noob i'm not sure if its OK for just one user like myself to edit it in such an extreme way.. is it? PlasticShark ( talk) 22:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Please delete this Bio of Phoolan Devi! It reeks of animosity, and lacks clarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4301:BA90:D1D:4856:6BE6:8601 ( talk) 10:07, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Anyone able to verify that photo Devi_surrender.jpg in any convincing manner? -- Itu ( talk) 11:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
This is an incredibly biased article. Why is forty-eight italicized? Why is the marital rape by the husband never mentioned? Why is the fact that she killed men because they would not tell her where the rapists are not mentioned? Why are biased words such as "simply" included? I don't feel I can trust any information in this article, as the wording is so clearly biased against this person. 103.14.125.195 ( talk) 18:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
I was sad to check this article and see that deceased MP Phoolan Devi (AKA Bandit Queen) has such an under-maintained presence on Wikipedia. The article is written in non-standard English (colloquialisms abound); the tone is not what would be expected from an encyclopedia; the article lacks citations in important areas; citations that do exist contain errors in the links; too much extraneous information is given on Phoolan Devi's early life (in-laws and childhood family) without attribution; insufficient attention is given to Phoolan's later life as an Indian MP.
This article really requires some love and care from an SME. I'm not one, otherwise I'd pitch in. (Everyone's a critic--I know!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skunkhaus ( talk • contribs) 17:43, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
A "moll" is the female companion of a male professional criminal. This is therefore not a proper description of Phoolan Devi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.149.20 ( talk) 13:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Has the case for "Moll" as in "Vikram Mallah's moll" been made? SukiKF ( talk) 22:25, 4 November 2014 (UTC) SukiKF 22.24, 04 Nov 2014 (GMT)
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I'm not sure, but it seems that the word caste is being used where the word jāti should be? Caste equals Varna (Shudra, Vaishya, Kshatriya, Brahmin, and Dalit), jāti equals endogamous groups of similar profession, such as 'boatman' or 'perfume seller'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.73.154 ( talk) 02:14, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes weren't supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Consider re-submitting with content based on media, books and scholarly works. |
In 2017, Iranian director Hossein Martin Fazeli announced the production of PHOOLAN, a documentary film about Phoolan’s life. It hasn't finished production yet but is set to be released sometime in 2018. Could someone add this information under the section Movie and autobiography? Sources: [2]; [3] (Note: I have disclosed a conflict of interest with Roads & Kingdoms. I am not paid for my contributions.) WillA98 ( talk) 18:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Notes
This article is ridiculously biased and is founded upon a lack of cited sources. Please rewrite or delete this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.196.83.254 ( talk) 14:40, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
I think people should read and compare the two versions and judge for themselves. The other version seems to have an agenda to simply damn India, its society, its family culture, and above all, its religion. It is a page of apologetics for a bandit who murdered many people and looted many others. Poverty is pervasive in India and we all live in the same "dirty" country; how many of us become bandits? It surely cannot be right to blame all and sundry for crimes committed by one very damaged personality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.20.116 ( talk) 15:52, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please rewrite this entire article ? Wikipedia primary purpose is to disseminate information,not tell stories.The article can be trimmed by getting rid of minor or unnecessary details. Prav001 ( talk) 05:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Phoolan is mentioned a few times in the Satanic Verses, indeed the fact that I’m reading it is the only reason I looked her up on WP. Could we have a section devoted to media depictions of her? Then we could mention both the film about her and the Satanic Verses in that section. Overlordnat1 ( talk) 17:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Larataguera ( talk · contribs) 23:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
I will review this article and post an initial review in the next few days. Larataguera ( talk) 23:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
Early life
Mallahs were a subcaste of Shudrapossibly excessive detail, especially since many readers won't know what Shudra is. Clarify and link, or delete.
successfully plotted to steal-> stole. Also delete
They forced Devidin to relinquish the land. (This is implied if the land is stolen).
They continued to harass...pronoun ambiguous
Back in Gorha Ka Purwa...-> "When she returned home..." or "When she returned to Gorha Ka Purwa..." would be clearer. And then
the second son of the village leader-> "The village leader's son..."
Bandit Queen
For reasons that Devi has explained in multiple ways...This says almost nothing. Delete.I
...came to seize her...-> When did this happen? Can we start this section with a date? There may be too much detail about the kidnapping. (Especially since the Atlantic says,
Phoolan's own accounts have varied significantly.The first sentences could just say: "On [date], a gang of bandits led by Babu Gujjar kidnapped Devi and took her away into the ravines."
After 72 hours
Speaking through a loudhailer, she demanded that the villagers hand over Shri Ram and Lalla Ram, then her gang went from house to house looting valuablesis a comma splice. Use a semicolon. ("...Lalla Ram; then ...")
Whilst Devi was on the run, her mother was held for five months in Kalpi prison. Maybe not needed. If it is, it shouldn't be the first sentence of this paragraph, which should have a more general topic sentence
Political career
Popular culture
Devi's autobiography I, Phoolan Devi was dictated by her onto tape and then edited into a book which was published first in French and then other...-> "Devi dictated her autobiography, I, Phoolan Devi and it was published in 1996, first in French, and then other..."
Moxham reported that she then renounced Buddhism.redundant from previous sentence. Delete.
In his autobiography (published in 2021), Farrukh Dhondy, the commissioning editor at Channel 4, described how he rushed to Delhi to sign a cheque to get Umed Singh to persuade Devi to drop her complaint. Moxham writes that when Devi discovered Singh had taken this payment, they became estranged, before later reconciling again.Excessive detail?
Legacy
Media theorist Sandra Ponzanesi sees Devi's life as an exemplary case of a postcolonial subject attempting to preserve their agency in the face of an Orientalist gaze.What's that mean exactly? Is it possible to say this simpler language?
Media theorist Sandra Ponzanesi takes Devi as an example of a Third World postcolonial subject who is well aware of the racist and patronising attitudes First World analysts can have of her.
Lisa Ray was reported to be the main voice artist...-> "Lisa Ray was the main voice artist". Or, is Lisa Ray's involvement excessive detail? "In 2019 Hossein Martin Fazeli produced a documentary..."
Lead:
The Behmai massacre was a controversial event which she claimed not to have organised.only makes sense if we've established that other people claimed that she did command it. Her imprisonment, later legal troubles, and eventual assassination seem to revolve around this event. Larataguera ( talk) 21:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The 1981 Behmai massacre was a controversial event in which twenty Thakur men were executedbe rephrased to clarify how the massacre is related to Phoolan Devi? Maybe "Phoolan Devi faced murder charges for the 1981 Behmai massacre in which twenty Thakur men were executed"? Or "Phoolan Devi allegedly ordered the 1981 Behmai massacre in which..." Larataguera ( talk) 02:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Scholar Tatiana Szurlej notes that the facts presented in these biographies often contradict each other, despite coming from interviews with Devi herself.in the lead. Larataguera ( talk) 01:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Devi campaigned with limited success for the rights of women and to provide better amenities for the poor. She told Roy Moxham "I want to bring hospitals, schools, electricity and clean water to the poor in the villages. To stop child marriage and to improve life for women.The rest of that section is actually about her murder charges.
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
Hello Phoolan Devi:
WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long
Good Article Editathon event in June 2023!
Running from June 1 to 30, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) editathon event – Wildcard Edition! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to any and all women and women's works during the event period. Want to improve an article about a Bollywood actress? Go for it. A pioneering female climate scientist? Absolutely. An award-winning book or film by a woman? Yes! GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to receive a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.
We hope to see you there!
Mujinga ( talk) 16:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)In the Legacy section, the article states that Shirish Korde's opera Phoolan Devi: The Bandit Queen had its premiere at the University of Boston. This is incorrect. While some careless Boston reviewers (like the source currently cited in the article) mistakenly claimed that the performance in Boston on April 23 was the premiere, the work (which should be credited to both Korde and Lynn Kremer, who co-wrote the libretto and designed and directed the 2010 production) actually had its first performance at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, on April 15, 2010. Both Korde and Kremer are on the faculty of the College of the Holy Cross, and apart from the lead singers the cast in both Worcester and Boston consisted largely of Holy Cross students. There were several performances in Worcester before the production moved to Boston the following weekend. This was correctly reported in the Boston Globe: see Matthew Guerrieri, "'Bandit Queen' Chronicles a Complicated Heroine," Boston Globe, 26 April 2010, page G5 ( archived from Boston.com on 25 Oct 2012); as well as at Stanford University's Opening Nights database of opera and oratorio premieres. Photos from the Holy Cross performances are online at the web site of the HC Theater Dept. (Full disclosure: I am unaffiliated with the college myself, but my wife teaches there, although not in the theater or music departments. I attended one of those first performances, and it was fantastic.) – Choliamb ( talk) 14:22, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
@ Nikkimaria the FAC got closed, slightly prematurely perhaps since we were still discussing FN33, but hopefully it doesn't need read re-opening because I'd argue The Economic Times (used twice) is not covered by WP:TOI. Yes they are both owned by The Times Group, but that's like New Scientist being owned by the Daily Mail and General Trust, which also publishes the Daily Mail. Mujinga ( talk) 10:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @ Tayi Arajakate, I reverted your recent edits and would if it's OK with you like to discuss them here. The article has been made a featured article after helpful comments at GA and PR, so I would say a consensus on for example caste and OBC has at least roughly been established already. I don't doubt that you know more than me about India in pretty much every way since I know very little, but I have read all the sources I've been able to get my hands on regarding Phoolan Devi.
"as news of Phoolan Devi's exploits spread, she became popular with the Other Backward Classes, who called her Dasyu Sundari (Beautiful Bandit) and celebrated her as a Robin Hood figure, who robbed from the rich to give to the poor"use the term "lower caste" rather than OBC, and they are not inter-changeable. OBC is an official categorisation that was introduced for caste related affirmative action for those groups who didn't fall under the SC (used for Dalits) or ST (used for Adivasis) categorisation but were identified to be marginalised, now there is controversy around who should or shouldn't be in each of these categories, using it doesn't make sense in this context. Lower caste is the relevant sociological term that bypasses all these categorisation problems to simply refer to anyone that is and feels marginalised.
As far as I can see we have five discussion points open. I will take them one by one and hopefully we can find solutions.
1 Use of India Today @ Tayi Arajakate questions the use of IT, AryKun says it's ok, I don't see a problem with it.
2 Lower castes versus OBC in lead - seems like we all agree to use "lower castes".
As news of Phoolan Devi's exploits spread, she became popular with the Other Backward Classes, who called her Dasyu Sundari (Beautiful Bandit) and celebrated her as a Robin Hood figure, who robbed from the rich to give to the poor
3 Dalits / OBC
She was celebrated among Dalits (people at the bottom of the caste system) for fighting back against her abuse by men of a higher caste and when she eluded capture by the authorities her fame grew
Mallah people were happy to have someone of their caste representing them in parliament for the first time and she was generally popular among Other Backward Classes
Other sources:
Not currently in article:
4 - The note on caste. This currently reads Indian society is divided into four castes or social classes. From top to bottom these are: Brahmin (priests), Kshatriya (warriors), Vaishya (traders) and Shudra (labourers).[5]: 194 Underneath these four classes are the Dalits, also known as the untouchables.[6]
.
5 rupees - correct sums in article?
OK so moving forward withb the suggestions:
The lead in this article is a mess. The murder she was accused of are being labelled 'executions,' a cult status is being labelled 'heroine.' Blatant WP:NPOV and WP:PUFF violations. LΞVIXIUS 💬 16:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
For TFA, 1461 characters, no fair-use foto:
Phoolan Devi (1963–2001), popularly known as the Bandit Queen, was an Indian dacoit (bandit) who later became a politician. She was a woman of the Mallah subcaste who grew up in poverty in the state of Uttar Pradesh, where her parents lost a land dispute. After being married off at the age of eleven and being sexually abused by various people, she joined a gang of dacoits which robbed higher-caste villages and held up trains and vehicles. When she became its leader, she punished her rapists and evaded capture by the authorities, making her a heroine for the Other Backward Classes. She was charged in absentia for the 1981 Behmai massacre, in which twenty Thakur men were executed, allegedly on her command. After this event, the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh resigned, and calls to apprehend her were amplified. She surrendered two years later and spent eleven years in Gwalior prison awaiting trial, then was released in 1994 after her charges were set aside. She was subsequently elected as a member of parliament for the Samajwadi Party in 1996. She lost her seat in 1998 and regained it the following year; she was the incumbent in 2001, when she was assassinated outside her home in New Delhi. Her worldwide fame had grown after the release of the controversial 1994 film Bandit Queen, which she did not approve of. There are varying accounts of her life because she told differing versions to suit her changing circumstances. (Full article...) Mujinga ( talk) 23:57, 3 April 2024 (UTC)