This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
This source is helpful re: unicorn, if we're to discuss more than just the slang term to describe some bisexual people:
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
More sources:
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
@ Reywas92: I see you merged content to List of LGBT slang terms. I wish you would start discussions before taking such actions. I understand why you decided to merge, however, this page is not intended to only cover slang terms. If you look at the Unicorn sources above, you'll also see how animals are related to LGBT culture outside slang terms. I'd like time to expand this entry, but if you feel strongly that this content is an inappropriate content fork at this time, I'm open to moving the page to draft space. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:17, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
User:Reywas92 removed "Gym rat" from the list. Pride.com defines a gym rat as "The gay man who spends every waking minute at the gym, talking about how he needs to go to the gym, or how he’s coming from the gym." Thoughts on inclusion? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if there's anything useful here. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Ursula the Sea Witch in the 1989 Disney film The Little Mermaid was inspired by Divine, [1] [2] a drag queen, with queer communities welcoming "her with open arms" despite that fact she was a villain. [3] John Musker, a director of Moana, and co-director of The Little Mermaid, noted that Howard Ashman, a writer of the film, knew Devine and had one of the principal animators, Rob Menkoff, do drawings based on Devine. The other director of Moana (and a co-director of The Little Mermaid), Ron Clements, stated that it "just fit the character," while Musker called Ursula a "little mix of Divine and Joan Collins." [4] Ashman was also, reportedly, a "big fan" of John Waters, and after the film, he got sick, as he was HIV positive, and he died from AIDS before he could accept the Academy Award for the music selection of Beauty and the Beast. Filmmaker Jeffrey Schwarz, who did a documentary on Divine, thought the film was pretty queer, while Sarah Ashman Gillespie, Ashman's sister, called the film "totally subversive." [2] It was also revealed that earlier designs of Ursula were inspired by the singer Patti LaBelle, with Musker saying that in the early development art for the character, and Menkoff adding that they were "trying to get some of Divine's big, campy, overweight diva" into the design, which was incorporated into the final character. [5] She was also described as " Mae West of the deep sea" and the first plus-size icon in a Disney film. [6] Akash Nikolas, a former editor for Zap2It, wrote, in a piece for The Atlantic, pointed to queer subtext and themes in The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Pocahontas, Dumbo, Pinocchio, Aladdin, and Mulan, described Disney films as "both traditional and subversive," echoed by Hugh Ryan in Vice. [7] [8] A writer for The Mary Sue, Mandy Meyers, also argued that the movie's lesson changes if Ariel's journey is seen as a queer coming-of-age story and interpreted through the romantic life of Hans Christian Andersen. [9] In April 2020, animator Mark Scarnander re-imagined and re-animated Ariel as a gay man. [10]
References
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cite web}}
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timestamp mismatch; January 19, 2021 suggested (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: |archive-date=
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timestamp mismatch; April 10, 2021 suggested (
help)
Historyday01 ( talk) 21:40, 22 April 2022 (UTC)Disney also relied on LGBTQ communities to revamp its animated films. Few creators were more central to Disney’s renewed vibrancy than Howard Ashman, an openly gay lyricist and director who the company recruited away from Broadway in 1986. Working with composer Alan Menken, Ashman provided the new musical template for Disney animation, crafting “The Little Mermaid,” “Beauty and the Beast” and “Aladdin,” all of which went on to become Broadway musicals. With “I want” songs that expressed the princess protagonists’ desires, and with all-out showstoppers, Ashman brought theatrical know-how — and a good dose of camp — to Disney’s animated films. In “The Little Mermaid,” Ashman and the animators honored gay culture by taking inspiration from a range of gay icons, including Divine, Bea Arthur and Joan Collins, to bring to life the brassy and voluptuous sea witch, Ursula. Even today, Ursula’s “Poor Unfortunate Souls” solo — an Ashman and Menken original — is a staple for drag performers around the world...Animator Andreas Deja supervised animation for the characters of Gaston in “Beauty and the Beast,” Jafar in “Aladdin” and Scar in “The Lion King.” Scholars and fans alike have often noted the camp value in these characters. As Sean Griffin observes in his landmark study of Disney and the gay community, “Fantasy often walks hand in hand with camp, one of the cornerstones of gay culture.”...Indeed, queerness can be found throughout the Disney canon. While Disney promoted LeFou as its first “openly gay” character in the 2017 live-action remake of “Beauty and the Beast,” audiences have read a range of Disney characters as queer for decades either in their resistance to heterosexual romance, their gender nonconforming performances or their campiness.
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
See Bear_(gay_culture)#Terminology --- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:45, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
These are presentation terms used for butch and femme bisexuals, but I can't find reliable sources for them. Anyone could help? Tazuco ( talk) 17:37, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
..."doe" is used to describe a femme bisexual woman, Montell says. There's also "crow," used to describe a masculine nonbinary person, and "tomcat," which refers to androgynous bisexual women. The list of bi slang goes on from there
Not sure if this source is helpful, but mentions koala bear (Australian):
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
https://books.google.com/books?id=XflyDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false -- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:33, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Reywas92: You seem adamant about having this entry deleted/merged. I'm curious how you feel the animal slang terms should be moved to LGBT slang. Would the entries be kept together to demonstrate the "animal spectrum", or sorted alphabetically and mixed with all the rest? I ask because not all of these terms apply to one section of LGBT slang and separating and sorting the animals would (in my opinion) be less helpful to readers.
As currently presented here, the animal slang section help readers understand how these terms are related and how identity comes into play. I'm asked all the time (especially by straight people) about the "bear/cub/otter" spectrum. I think it'd be better to be able to point people to one section instead of a long list with terms scattered. What do you think? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
A lot of the above discussions were for a previous iteration of this article ( Animals in LGBT culture). Should we archive these now that the page has a different scope? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:57, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
This source is helpful re: unicorn, if we're to discuss more than just the slang term to describe some bisexual people:
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
More sources:
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
@ Reywas92: I see you merged content to List of LGBT slang terms. I wish you would start discussions before taking such actions. I understand why you decided to merge, however, this page is not intended to only cover slang terms. If you look at the Unicorn sources above, you'll also see how animals are related to LGBT culture outside slang terms. I'd like time to expand this entry, but if you feel strongly that this content is an inappropriate content fork at this time, I'm open to moving the page to draft space. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:17, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
User:Reywas92 removed "Gym rat" from the list. Pride.com defines a gym rat as "The gay man who spends every waking minute at the gym, talking about how he needs to go to the gym, or how he’s coming from the gym." Thoughts on inclusion? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if there's anything useful here. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Ursula the Sea Witch in the 1989 Disney film The Little Mermaid was inspired by Divine, [1] [2] a drag queen, with queer communities welcoming "her with open arms" despite that fact she was a villain. [3] John Musker, a director of Moana, and co-director of The Little Mermaid, noted that Howard Ashman, a writer of the film, knew Devine and had one of the principal animators, Rob Menkoff, do drawings based on Devine. The other director of Moana (and a co-director of The Little Mermaid), Ron Clements, stated that it "just fit the character," while Musker called Ursula a "little mix of Divine and Joan Collins." [4] Ashman was also, reportedly, a "big fan" of John Waters, and after the film, he got sick, as he was HIV positive, and he died from AIDS before he could accept the Academy Award for the music selection of Beauty and the Beast. Filmmaker Jeffrey Schwarz, who did a documentary on Divine, thought the film was pretty queer, while Sarah Ashman Gillespie, Ashman's sister, called the film "totally subversive." [2] It was also revealed that earlier designs of Ursula were inspired by the singer Patti LaBelle, with Musker saying that in the early development art for the character, and Menkoff adding that they were "trying to get some of Divine's big, campy, overweight diva" into the design, which was incorporated into the final character. [5] She was also described as " Mae West of the deep sea" and the first plus-size icon in a Disney film. [6] Akash Nikolas, a former editor for Zap2It, wrote, in a piece for The Atlantic, pointed to queer subtext and themes in The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Pocahontas, Dumbo, Pinocchio, Aladdin, and Mulan, described Disney films as "both traditional and subversive," echoed by Hugh Ryan in Vice. [7] [8] A writer for The Mary Sue, Mandy Meyers, also argued that the movie's lesson changes if Ariel's journey is seen as a queer coming-of-age story and interpreted through the romantic life of Hans Christian Andersen. [9] In April 2020, animator Mark Scarnander re-imagined and re-animated Ariel as a gay man. [10]
References
{{
cite web}}
: |archive-date=
/ |archive-url=
timestamp mismatch; January 19, 2021 suggested (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: |archive-date=
/ |archive-url=
timestamp mismatch; April 10, 2021 suggested (
help)
Historyday01 ( talk) 21:40, 22 April 2022 (UTC)Disney also relied on LGBTQ communities to revamp its animated films. Few creators were more central to Disney’s renewed vibrancy than Howard Ashman, an openly gay lyricist and director who the company recruited away from Broadway in 1986. Working with composer Alan Menken, Ashman provided the new musical template for Disney animation, crafting “The Little Mermaid,” “Beauty and the Beast” and “Aladdin,” all of which went on to become Broadway musicals. With “I want” songs that expressed the princess protagonists’ desires, and with all-out showstoppers, Ashman brought theatrical know-how — and a good dose of camp — to Disney’s animated films. In “The Little Mermaid,” Ashman and the animators honored gay culture by taking inspiration from a range of gay icons, including Divine, Bea Arthur and Joan Collins, to bring to life the brassy and voluptuous sea witch, Ursula. Even today, Ursula’s “Poor Unfortunate Souls” solo — an Ashman and Menken original — is a staple for drag performers around the world...Animator Andreas Deja supervised animation for the characters of Gaston in “Beauty and the Beast,” Jafar in “Aladdin” and Scar in “The Lion King.” Scholars and fans alike have often noted the camp value in these characters. As Sean Griffin observes in his landmark study of Disney and the gay community, “Fantasy often walks hand in hand with camp, one of the cornerstones of gay culture.”...Indeed, queerness can be found throughout the Disney canon. While Disney promoted LeFou as its first “openly gay” character in the 2017 live-action remake of “Beauty and the Beast,” audiences have read a range of Disney characters as queer for decades either in their resistance to heterosexual romance, their gender nonconforming performances or their campiness.
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
See Bear_(gay_culture)#Terminology --- Another Believer ( Talk) 21:45, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
These are presentation terms used for butch and femme bisexuals, but I can't find reliable sources for them. Anyone could help? Tazuco ( talk) 17:37, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
..."doe" is used to describe a femme bisexual woman, Montell says. There's also "crow," used to describe a masculine nonbinary person, and "tomcat," which refers to androgynous bisexual women. The list of bi slang goes on from there
Not sure if this source is helpful, but mentions koala bear (Australian):
--- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
https://books.google.com/books?id=XflyDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false -- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:33, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Reywas92: You seem adamant about having this entry deleted/merged. I'm curious how you feel the animal slang terms should be moved to LGBT slang. Would the entries be kept together to demonstrate the "animal spectrum", or sorted alphabetically and mixed with all the rest? I ask because not all of these terms apply to one section of LGBT slang and separating and sorting the animals would (in my opinion) be less helpful to readers.
As currently presented here, the animal slang section help readers understand how these terms are related and how identity comes into play. I'm asked all the time (especially by straight people) about the "bear/cub/otter" spectrum. I think it'd be better to be able to point people to one section instead of a long list with terms scattered. What do you think? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
A lot of the above discussions were for a previous iteration of this article ( Animals in LGBT culture). Should we archive these now that the page has a different scope? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:57, 15 August 2022 (UTC)