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This article, and several others, have been affected by edit wars for quite some time. However, there is no discussion here as to what the dispute is about. Could someone please explain it? Either here, or at User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment#Petržalka . Thanks, El on ka 12:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
The Hungarian and German names were removed again. It would be too hard to admit that neither Czechoslovakia NOR Slovakia did exist before 1918. It was created by the will of the English and French. But before that, ehm....Slovakia was Hungary. Which means that the history of Hungary is also your history. And it doesn't make one bit of difference whether you admit it or not. It's a fact. A nondisputable fact. CoolKoon ( talk) 18:16, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Based on my review of the previous discussions (see below), it appears that of all currently active editors, the consensus is to include the alternate names in the lead. This is also in accordance with WP:UE#Include alternatives and WP:NCGN#General guidelines. So go ahead and add the alternate names back in. Anyone that removes them, put the names back, link to this discussion in the edit summary, place a warning on the removing user's talkpage which links to this discussion, and potentially bring it up at the Experiment page as well. If anyone wants to change this status quo, it will then be their responsibility to participate at talk and to build a new consensus, per WP:CCC. -- El on ka 18:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
(copied from User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment/Archive 3)
Can someone please explain what the dispute is, at this article? Why is there an edit war? There's nothing at the talkpage, but editors have been pulling the article back and forth for a long time. What is going on? --
El
on
ka
12:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
From here: "has been declared on October 28 in Prague, the leaders of Bratislava (where the majority of the population are Germans or Hungarians, see below) want to prevent Bratislava from becoming part of Czecho-Slovakia and declare the town a free town and rename it Wilsonovo mesto (Wilson City) after US-president Woodrow Wilson." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rembaoud ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I readded the alternative names per User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment/Archive 3#Petržalka, User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment#Petržalka and WP:NCGN (see edit summary too), also added language templates. Squash Racket ( talk) 04:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
While Nmate claims in edit summary he has added very important information to History section, I think it is unbalanced in the current form after addition of 1945 info (besides being formatted not in the best way):
- 1938 – Petžalka was annexed by Nazi Germany on the basis of the Munich agreement, but after World War II was returned to Czechoslovakia.
- 1945 (May 5): Slovak soldiers broke into the flats of Hungarians living in Bratislava. Packaging was allowed in a half past hour. 90% of Hungarian population was transferred to Petržalka having about 20000 people in detention camps between inhuman circumstances.
90 teenage soldiers -came from Csík county- who did not take part in military actions were murdered by Czechoslovakian soldiers with shot in the backs of the neck on the way home in the weeks after the World War II in Petržalka. [1]- 1946 – Petržalka officially became a part of Bratislava.
- 1977 – construction of the housing blocks began.
- 2001 – from its 117,227 inhabitants, 108,600 were Slovak, 4259 Hungarian, 1788 Czech and 219 German.
- 2003 – Pope John Paul II visited Petržalka and celebrated a Sunday Liturgy.
- November 4, 2005 – university student Daniel Tupý was stabbed to death at the bank of the Danube. His violent killing by a group of neonazis became a symbolic act of ethnic and racial and general hatred against others in Slovakia citation needed
Unbalanced - because there are given too much details of acts that were part of wider history, not very specific to Petržalka. Also Pope visit was very important, with many visitors, That is why I dare to rewrite and shorten it into the following form:
As this is very grim part of history, many would like to have a chance to check some reliable source in understandable language, hm? What is the status of referenced page? Otherwise there can be expended tries to remove this information completely - and in my view well grounded tries. -- Ruziklan ( talk) 21:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Being at this, I rewrote also Daniel Tupý part - but this is more history of something else (hatred, murders, ...) than Petržalka itself, if you know, what I mean:
Exceptional claims need exceptional sources, is that right? I do not consider http://www.transindex.ro/ a reliable source. If those things happened as described by Hobartimus and Nmate, I am sure they will be able to find a reliable published source (such as a book on history of Bratislava). Until then, I believe the claim should be removed. I have also a problem with the length of Nmate's addition, which is disproportionately too long. The addition is about what happened in Bratislava, not what happened in Petrzalka. Since this article is about Petrzalka, I shortened a bit Nmate's text. Tankred ( talk) 02:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
What is "recentism"? Is there a policy that after 200X (2004 i guess then) info can not be added??? What is POV in it??? Tupy is well referenced and had big enough impact to be mentioned. See Solingen for similar stuff. Put it back, please, fast. -- Rembaoud ( talk) 23:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Would you answer? Also what is "belitteling Slovak cities"? Where do you get these ideas? :) -- Rembaoud ( talk) 19:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
There is a memorial of him on the bank of the Danube, amongst with the other victims of such crimes. Where have you lived in 2005/2006? -- Rembaoud ( talk) 14:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
References
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cite web}}
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and |date=
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help); Unknown parameter |accessyear=
ignored (|access-date=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |accessyear=
ignored (|access-date=
suggested) (
help)
I feel still somewhat unclear about the status of Slovaks, Hungarians etc. in Petržalka between 1938 and 1945. The current wording does not really seem consistent with outside events (Slovakia and Hungary as German allies) and in itself (they have to stay, but are persecuted?) While I of course can't really rule out it's all true, I tend to think this might also be a problem with the source or with the translation, or with the wording.
Secondly, I'd prefer to use the German name in the context of the labour camp. It was at that time the official name of the village, and it also seems to be the name used in much of the relevant literature (which happens to be of Austrian origin). Yaan ( talk) 11:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Petersilienhain yields 8 (eight) hits on google, which makes me wonder how reliable this info on the German equivalent of Petržalka is. I assume it's not a direct translation (translation of Petersilienhain to english would be "parsley grove") ? Yaan ( talk) 10:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed a little edit clash going on here. Could either of the parties involved provide some sources for their claims, please? Without any referencing I would prefer if the more general statement was used. Wladthemlat ( talk) 17:45, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
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Here's the new official logo of the borough of Petrzalka: https://www.petrzalka.sk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Logo_znak.jpg -- Nvoei ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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This article, and several others, have been affected by edit wars for quite some time. However, there is no discussion here as to what the dispute is about. Could someone please explain it? Either here, or at User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment#Petržalka . Thanks, El on ka 12:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
The Hungarian and German names were removed again. It would be too hard to admit that neither Czechoslovakia NOR Slovakia did exist before 1918. It was created by the will of the English and French. But before that, ehm....Slovakia was Hungary. Which means that the history of Hungary is also your history. And it doesn't make one bit of difference whether you admit it or not. It's a fact. A nondisputable fact. CoolKoon ( talk) 18:16, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Based on my review of the previous discussions (see below), it appears that of all currently active editors, the consensus is to include the alternate names in the lead. This is also in accordance with WP:UE#Include alternatives and WP:NCGN#General guidelines. So go ahead and add the alternate names back in. Anyone that removes them, put the names back, link to this discussion in the edit summary, place a warning on the removing user's talkpage which links to this discussion, and potentially bring it up at the Experiment page as well. If anyone wants to change this status quo, it will then be their responsibility to participate at talk and to build a new consensus, per WP:CCC. -- El on ka 18:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
(copied from User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment/Archive 3)
Can someone please explain what the dispute is, at this article? Why is there an edit war? There's nothing at the talkpage, but editors have been pulling the article back and forth for a long time. What is going on? --
El
on
ka
12:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
From here: "has been declared on October 28 in Prague, the leaders of Bratislava (where the majority of the population are Germans or Hungarians, see below) want to prevent Bratislava from becoming part of Czecho-Slovakia and declare the town a free town and rename it Wilsonovo mesto (Wilson City) after US-president Woodrow Wilson." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rembaoud ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I readded the alternative names per User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment/Archive 3#Petržalka, User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment#Petržalka and WP:NCGN (see edit summary too), also added language templates. Squash Racket ( talk) 04:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
While Nmate claims in edit summary he has added very important information to History section, I think it is unbalanced in the current form after addition of 1945 info (besides being formatted not in the best way):
- 1938 – Petžalka was annexed by Nazi Germany on the basis of the Munich agreement, but after World War II was returned to Czechoslovakia.
- 1945 (May 5): Slovak soldiers broke into the flats of Hungarians living in Bratislava. Packaging was allowed in a half past hour. 90% of Hungarian population was transferred to Petržalka having about 20000 people in detention camps between inhuman circumstances.
90 teenage soldiers -came from Csík county- who did not take part in military actions were murdered by Czechoslovakian soldiers with shot in the backs of the neck on the way home in the weeks after the World War II in Petržalka. [1]- 1946 – Petržalka officially became a part of Bratislava.
- 1977 – construction of the housing blocks began.
- 2001 – from its 117,227 inhabitants, 108,600 were Slovak, 4259 Hungarian, 1788 Czech and 219 German.
- 2003 – Pope John Paul II visited Petržalka and celebrated a Sunday Liturgy.
- November 4, 2005 – university student Daniel Tupý was stabbed to death at the bank of the Danube. His violent killing by a group of neonazis became a symbolic act of ethnic and racial and general hatred against others in Slovakia citation needed
Unbalanced - because there are given too much details of acts that were part of wider history, not very specific to Petržalka. Also Pope visit was very important, with many visitors, That is why I dare to rewrite and shorten it into the following form:
As this is very grim part of history, many would like to have a chance to check some reliable source in understandable language, hm? What is the status of referenced page? Otherwise there can be expended tries to remove this information completely - and in my view well grounded tries. -- Ruziklan ( talk) 21:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Being at this, I rewrote also Daniel Tupý part - but this is more history of something else (hatred, murders, ...) than Petržalka itself, if you know, what I mean:
Exceptional claims need exceptional sources, is that right? I do not consider http://www.transindex.ro/ a reliable source. If those things happened as described by Hobartimus and Nmate, I am sure they will be able to find a reliable published source (such as a book on history of Bratislava). Until then, I believe the claim should be removed. I have also a problem with the length of Nmate's addition, which is disproportionately too long. The addition is about what happened in Bratislava, not what happened in Petrzalka. Since this article is about Petrzalka, I shortened a bit Nmate's text. Tankred ( talk) 02:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
What is "recentism"? Is there a policy that after 200X (2004 i guess then) info can not be added??? What is POV in it??? Tupy is well referenced and had big enough impact to be mentioned. See Solingen for similar stuff. Put it back, please, fast. -- Rembaoud ( talk) 23:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Would you answer? Also what is "belitteling Slovak cities"? Where do you get these ideas? :) -- Rembaoud ( talk) 19:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
There is a memorial of him on the bank of the Danube, amongst with the other victims of such crimes. Where have you lived in 2005/2006? -- Rembaoud ( talk) 14:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |accessyear=
ignored (|access-date=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |accessyear=
ignored (|access-date=
suggested) (
help)
I feel still somewhat unclear about the status of Slovaks, Hungarians etc. in Petržalka between 1938 and 1945. The current wording does not really seem consistent with outside events (Slovakia and Hungary as German allies) and in itself (they have to stay, but are persecuted?) While I of course can't really rule out it's all true, I tend to think this might also be a problem with the source or with the translation, or with the wording.
Secondly, I'd prefer to use the German name in the context of the labour camp. It was at that time the official name of the village, and it also seems to be the name used in much of the relevant literature (which happens to be of Austrian origin). Yaan ( talk) 11:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Petersilienhain yields 8 (eight) hits on google, which makes me wonder how reliable this info on the German equivalent of Petržalka is. I assume it's not a direct translation (translation of Petersilienhain to english would be "parsley grove") ? Yaan ( talk) 10:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed a little edit clash going on here. Could either of the parties involved provide some sources for their claims, please? Without any referencing I would prefer if the more general statement was used. Wladthemlat ( talk) 17:45, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:46, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:35, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
Here's the new official logo of the borough of Petrzalka: https://www.petrzalka.sk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Logo_znak.jpg -- Nvoei ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)