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I provided some references about the origin of Losha.They said he was Albanian.Then someone deleted them .Now there is a reference that says that Albanians consider him Albanian.In fact Albanian scholars aren't the only who "consider" him Albanian.So my references need to be restored. Rolandi+ ( talk) 08:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Good work Zouapan!Elsie says "One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha...".Then he says "According to Albanian writer Ekrem bey Vlora (1885-1964), Losha stemmed from a leading Albanian family that led some 10,000 Albanians to the plains to Thessaly between 1220-1235" .Obviously Elsie cites the albanian writer when says that his family led 10000 Albanians.Elsie said that Losha was Albania before he started citing Vlora. Also,you can see these : [1] [2]If you want more,please tell me.And my other reference,why did you delete it? Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:10, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
References
If the modern scholars want to say that Malakasi were vlachs,they say Vlachs (without demonym).If the modern scholars want to say that Losha were vlachs,they say Vlachs (without demonym) as your source does.So if they say that Losha were Albanian,it means Albanian and not Vlachs.You are working with two standarts.The claim that Losha was an Albanian tribe will be added.The claim that they were Albanians will be added.And stop deleting all my edits and working with two standarts.
Rolandi+ (
talk)
09:22, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
The tribe of Malakasi, an Aromunian village in the Great Vlachia 16°, played a considerable role in the history of Epirus in the 14th century
There are no standards, but guidelines and policies, which you don't respect.-- Zoupan 10:53, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This is what I'm saying.If a modern scholar (Hammond,Pipa,Fine etc) refer to Malakasi,Losha,Spata etc as Vlachs ,they use the word "Vlachs"(they are not using demonyms).So if they say Losha was Albanian,it means that they are refering to him as Albanian.When refering to Malakasi,they don't use the demonym "Albanian".When refering to Losha,Magderu uses the word "Vlach" and not "Albanian" as a demonym.It means that if a modern scholar refers to Losha as Albanian,it means that the scholar says that Losha was Albanian and it's not a demonym.It's clear!So the Albanian hypothesis will be added!And the next time try staying neutral! Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Firstly,don't tell me what
demonym means.The reference says "the first Albanian..." and it means that he was Albanian.Obviously,the scholars who think that he was Vlach,refer to him as Vlach."Albanian tribe " means that Losha was an Albanian ethnic family.According to you,"Vlach" means Vlach,while "Albanian" means Vlach or Albanian.So the Albanian hypothesis will be added!
Rolandi+ (
talk)
17:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This is what I am saying,there are not demonyms here!So everything is solved finally!Both Albanian and Vlach hypothesis will be included,not just the Vlach hypothesis. Rolandi+ ( talk) 08:48, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes ,because when refering to ethnic Vlachs these modern scholars use the term "Vlach"..Finally solved! Rolandi+ ( talk) 14:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
"No doubt you know that many Albanians are of Vlach or Greek or of some other ethnicity".And what does this mean??? Don't try involving your personal views here!These modern scholars have used the term "Vlach" when referring to people of Vlach ethnicity. Rolandi+ ( talk) 06:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
The article says "Albanian historians consider him Albanian" which looks like that only Albanian historians consider him Albanian (origin). Elsie says that "Epirus was a mix of Albanians,Greeks and Vlachs.One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha". [1] Also Sakellariou says "Arta and Rogoi were assigned to another Albanian, Peter Losha". [2] Also Fine ("The Late Medieval Balkans",pp.351) includes Losha (Liosha) at Albanian tribes. The idea is to change the part that says "Albanian historians consider him Albanian".There are many non-Albanian scholars who says that Losha were of Albanian origin. Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:12, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
References
"Albanian historians consider him Albanian" is well mentioned,while the fact that Madgearu is Aromanian isn't mentioned.If you look at that book,the authors clearly tries gloryfing the Vlachs,especially Aromanians.That book clearly lacks neutrality,but this fact isn't important to you! As I said,Elsie says that "Epirus was a mix of Albanians,Greeks and Vlachs.One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha". [1] Elsie clearly separates Vlachs from Albanians in Epirus.There have been Greek,Venetian etc rulers in Epirus,while Losha was the first Albanian. Rolandi+ ( talk) 09:07, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Someone who is of Albanian origin and lives/emigrates from Albania is called "Albanian".Scholars refer to him as "Albanian" and not "Albanian origin". However,we have to be realistic and neutral.The "Albanian" and "Vlach" hypothesis need to be deleted,unless other references will be provided.All provided references are clearly based in nationalistic sentiments.Albanian scholars are Albanians,Madgearu is A/Romanian,Destani and Jasini (co-writers with Elsie) are Albanians.In fact,the Croatian Sufflay is the only really neutral source here.So the "Albanian" and "Vlach" hypothesis need to be deleted! Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The problem here isn't "my refusal to get the point",but those nationalistic based references.The problem isn't me here,but your desire to use POV references as reliable ones!Oh,go to ANI and report me,this is all you can do,Zoupan!Madgearu tries glorifing Vlachs around the Balkans and that reference lacks neutrality!If you believe that Losha was Vlach,just go and find some non-Romanian sources.If you find them,it will be OK! Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
@ TU-nor:Yes I'm serious.However,since Madgearu isn't sure that Losha was Vlach,I'm trying to believe it.
Madgearu is a Romanian,so the text will be:"Many historians say he was of Albanian origin, while a Vlach (Aromanian) origin has also been given by historians".If you have sth against talk to me. Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:07, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Get over it.-- Zoupan 10:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
No, because you actually do, in the majority of cases, including this one.-- Zoupan 10:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I provided some references about the origin of Losha.They said he was Albanian.Then someone deleted them .Now there is a reference that says that Albanians consider him Albanian.In fact Albanian scholars aren't the only who "consider" him Albanian.So my references need to be restored. Rolandi+ ( talk) 08:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Good work Zouapan!Elsie says "One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha...".Then he says "According to Albanian writer Ekrem bey Vlora (1885-1964), Losha stemmed from a leading Albanian family that led some 10,000 Albanians to the plains to Thessaly between 1220-1235" .Obviously Elsie cites the albanian writer when says that his family led 10000 Albanians.Elsie said that Losha was Albania before he started citing Vlora. Also,you can see these : [1] [2]If you want more,please tell me.And my other reference,why did you delete it? Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:10, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
References
If the modern scholars want to say that Malakasi were vlachs,they say Vlachs (without demonym).If the modern scholars want to say that Losha were vlachs,they say Vlachs (without demonym) as your source does.So if they say that Losha were Albanian,it means Albanian and not Vlachs.You are working with two standarts.The claim that Losha was an Albanian tribe will be added.The claim that they were Albanians will be added.And stop deleting all my edits and working with two standarts.
Rolandi+ (
talk)
09:22, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
The tribe of Malakasi, an Aromunian village in the Great Vlachia 16°, played a considerable role in the history of Epirus in the 14th century
There are no standards, but guidelines and policies, which you don't respect.-- Zoupan 10:53, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This is what I'm saying.If a modern scholar (Hammond,Pipa,Fine etc) refer to Malakasi,Losha,Spata etc as Vlachs ,they use the word "Vlachs"(they are not using demonyms).So if they say Losha was Albanian,it means that they are refering to him as Albanian.When refering to Malakasi,they don't use the demonym "Albanian".When refering to Losha,Magderu uses the word "Vlach" and not "Albanian" as a demonym.It means that if a modern scholar refers to Losha as Albanian,it means that the scholar says that Losha was Albanian and it's not a demonym.It's clear!So the Albanian hypothesis will be added!And the next time try staying neutral! Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Firstly,don't tell me what
demonym means.The reference says "the first Albanian..." and it means that he was Albanian.Obviously,the scholars who think that he was Vlach,refer to him as Vlach."Albanian tribe " means that Losha was an Albanian ethnic family.According to you,"Vlach" means Vlach,while "Albanian" means Vlach or Albanian.So the Albanian hypothesis will be added!
Rolandi+ (
talk)
17:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This is what I am saying,there are not demonyms here!So everything is solved finally!Both Albanian and Vlach hypothesis will be included,not just the Vlach hypothesis. Rolandi+ ( talk) 08:48, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes ,because when refering to ethnic Vlachs these modern scholars use the term "Vlach"..Finally solved! Rolandi+ ( talk) 14:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
"No doubt you know that many Albanians are of Vlach or Greek or of some other ethnicity".And what does this mean??? Don't try involving your personal views here!These modern scholars have used the term "Vlach" when referring to people of Vlach ethnicity. Rolandi+ ( talk) 06:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
The article says "Albanian historians consider him Albanian" which looks like that only Albanian historians consider him Albanian (origin). Elsie says that "Epirus was a mix of Albanians,Greeks and Vlachs.One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha". [1] Also Sakellariou says "Arta and Rogoi were assigned to another Albanian, Peter Losha". [2] Also Fine ("The Late Medieval Balkans",pp.351) includes Losha (Liosha) at Albanian tribes. The idea is to change the part that says "Albanian historians consider him Albanian".There are many non-Albanian scholars who says that Losha were of Albanian origin. Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:12, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
References
"Albanian historians consider him Albanian" is well mentioned,while the fact that Madgearu is Aromanian isn't mentioned.If you look at that book,the authors clearly tries gloryfing the Vlachs,especially Aromanians.That book clearly lacks neutrality,but this fact isn't important to you! As I said,Elsie says that "Epirus was a mix of Albanians,Greeks and Vlachs.One early Albanian ruler of the region was Peter Losha". [1] Elsie clearly separates Vlachs from Albanians in Epirus.There have been Greek,Venetian etc rulers in Epirus,while Losha was the first Albanian. Rolandi+ ( talk) 09:07, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Someone who is of Albanian origin and lives/emigrates from Albania is called "Albanian".Scholars refer to him as "Albanian" and not "Albanian origin". However,we have to be realistic and neutral.The "Albanian" and "Vlach" hypothesis need to be deleted,unless other references will be provided.All provided references are clearly based in nationalistic sentiments.Albanian scholars are Albanians,Madgearu is A/Romanian,Destani and Jasini (co-writers with Elsie) are Albanians.In fact,the Croatian Sufflay is the only really neutral source here.So the "Albanian" and "Vlach" hypothesis need to be deleted! Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The problem here isn't "my refusal to get the point",but those nationalistic based references.The problem isn't me here,but your desire to use POV references as reliable ones!Oh,go to ANI and report me,this is all you can do,Zoupan!Madgearu tries glorifing Vlachs around the Balkans and that reference lacks neutrality!If you believe that Losha was Vlach,just go and find some non-Romanian sources.If you find them,it will be OK! Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
@ TU-nor:Yes I'm serious.However,since Madgearu isn't sure that Losha was Vlach,I'm trying to believe it.
Madgearu is a Romanian,so the text will be:"Many historians say he was of Albanian origin, while a Vlach (Aromanian) origin has also been given by historians".If you have sth against talk to me. Rolandi+ ( talk) 16:07, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Get over it.-- Zoupan 10:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
No, because you actually do, in the majority of cases, including this one.-- Zoupan 10:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)