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Archive 1 |
I didnt remember last time i saw Peru with a sky blue sash, its back to red now :) -- Nasdaq 01:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
The article has greatly improved since it was first rated due to the help it has been getting by various people. Now, we need to further plan out how to make the article even better. Make some suggestions here (Which is the purpose of the discussion page, I suppose) so that others understand what you're planning to do or what you would want for the article to have. I myself would like if somebody with a greater knowledge on the subject to expand on how the Peruvian team has done in the Copa America (As a preview, like the section previous to the "World Cup and Qualifiers"). Perhaps also somehow mention more about Peru in other tournaments like in the Kirin Cup, Gold Cup, and Olimpics. I will also keep contributing to the article. But, are there any other ideas you might have? MarshalN20 22:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
~The article is looking more and more impressive, a far cry from its previous status. Selecciones de la Vida 05:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
As suggested by the peer review, the stuff on the World Cup and Copa America (not the records, though) should be merged into History. When you first enter the article page, there are several titles which kind of distract the reader. I think it would be best that there should be subtitles under History used instead of various new titles. -- MicroX 23:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the Interesting Facts section because:
I also moved the citation for the chalaca move into the article. -- MicroX 23:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
~I would like to first begin by thanking you, MicroX, for taking the time to want to discuss this article. Now that you have openly stated your ideas, I can see what you want to do.
Now, back on subject, yes, it was a good idea for you to delete the trivia-like section of the article. Yet, I disagree that the World Cup History and the Copa America history should be merged in with the "General History" of the Peruvian team. The reasons to this are that: World Cup History and Copa America history are specific sections of the article that specifically discuss those subjects; and it would be highly illogical to truncate these sections that have been hardly worked on. I read your ideas in the bottom part of this discussion section, I'll continue this discussion on that part. MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
==Last and next games==
==History==
→La Blanquirroja in the FIFA World Cup
→Copa America
→Records
→La Blanquirroja in other tournaments
==Home stadium==
==Noted players==
==Recent matches==
==Current squad==
==Managers==
==Kit evolution==
==Football rivalries==
==Under 17 team==
==See also==
==References==
==External links==
-- MicroX 19:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
~That's perfect. I'll make the "Alternate Stadiums" sub-section. MarshalN20 ( talk) 23:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I did some major editing to the article, including the re-arranging of various parts and deletion of the U-17 section (since there's a whole article for it already, there's no need for it in the Peru national team article). The format I based this re-arranging on was a Wikipedia structure for football articles, and the above suggestion by MicroX. Some things I did not do was mixing the individual histories of the tournaments Peru participated into the main "history" section of the article as I still think that the main history should be an overview while the individual sections for the tournaments should be more in-depth to the actual participation of Peru. It was also suggested, by Victor12, that the format of the article get somewhat closer to the Scotland national football team article, so I tried imitating some of the things in that article, but did not completely follow their structure such as (at least the way I see it) their first history section which looked as if somebody had simply got a bunch of information and stuck it in there for the heck of it (and put a bunch of sources along with it). Adding to it that I don't think it would be deserving for this article to be a complete imitation of the Scottish team article. On the overall, I really think this article should get a GA rating. I know more references are needed, there are some POV problems, and some grammar mistakes, but that only means the article is still not ready to be an FA class article, it does not mean that the rating cannot go up into a GA, for the least.--~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarshalN20 ( talk • contribs) 16:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
This article's nomination on Good Article Candidates has been failed due to a lack of references. Facts which could potentially be questioned by a sceptical reader should be attributed to a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Citing sources for more details. YouTube videos should not generally be used as references. Oldelpaso 17:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
For further improvement and suggestions you might want to submit the article for peer review at Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru/Peer review. You'll be sure to get some useful reviews. Greetings, -- Victor12 17:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I did a small peer review and these are the suggestions it gave me. The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. I think we need to work on deciding if the article should be American English or British English and reducing the size of the article because it is very long. Thanks, MicroX 23:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
~The idea of the recent and previous games for the article was very good. Yet, I would not like for the section showing all the games the team has recently played to be erased. It is not long, and it really is necessary to show the team's results. Perhaps once that section gets long, it can be made into a new article (specifically for the purpose of seeing the records of the recent matches of the Peruvian national team).
-Make a page called "History of the Peruvian National Football Team," and there send the long information in the sections of the World Cup (Qualifiers and Participations), the Copa America (Participations), and summarize the "General History" and add the long section currently in this article into the new article.
Well, that's all I've got to write for now. I can tell that your editing, MicroX, will greatly improve this article. Just please take into consideration some of the things I've pointed out. If you need any help with the article, don't doubt to contact me (I'll try my best to help). MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I've got two tickets right now that are for a Peruvian FIFA World Cup Qualifier. Would it be a copyright violation if I scanned them and uploaded them onto Wikipedia for this article? -- MicroX 19:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
-If you've bought the tickets, then I see no reason as to why you wouldn't be able to post them. Yet, the only problem I would see with this is in the case the ticket has some trademarks in it. If you can, after you scan the picture try to make those trademarks blurry as to there won't be a problem with the company. Other than that, since you bought the ticket, you have the right to do whatever you want with it. MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
-That's a terrible trend with Peruvian companies, but nonetheless (for courtesy), it would be best to simply respect their "trademark" (even if they really haven't registered the logo). It's better to simply stay away from that kind of trouble. Also, something I was thinking about, if you're going to go to the game; perhaps you could try to take some pictures of the game so that you can later upload one photo for the article? I know it's hard to bring in cameras into the Peruvian stadium (Especially with the risk of it getting stolen), but the article would greatly benefit from a picture of the team actually playing. MarshalN20 ( talk) 06:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
The traditional stadium of Peru is the Estadio Nacional. But the Estadio Monumental "U" is used now by the team. I think it would be logical to include something on the Monumental in the Home Stadium section. -- MicroX 02:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
-Technically speaking, the Monumental is not really the "Home Stadium." You're completely correct, though, in stating that the team has recently been using the Monumental (I've read several papers stating that the coach has said he preffers to use that stadium due to controversies with the synthetic field) as the stadium. I think a sub-section within the Home Stadium section called: "Alternative Stadiums" would come in handy. Sometimes the team has also used the Alejandro Villanueva stadium, I think if I remember well, and also the Cusco stadium. So on that "Alternative Stadiums" sub-section there can be a mention of all the alternative stadiums used by the team (the current one at the top, of course). MarshalN20 ( talk) 06:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
"Silva said the decision on the location of the Oct 13 clash with Paraguay would be taken soon and that three stadium's are under consideration: Cusco's Garcilaso de la Vega Stadium, which is also 3,400 metres above sea level, and the Monumental Stadium.
Both stadiums are included in the FIFA list, alongside Lima's National Stadium and Alejandro Villanueva Stadium, even though the world football governing body is opposed to official games being played at more than 3,000 metres above sea level."
Even if Peru has not actually played in the stadium, they are part of the list of alternate stadiums the team planned to use. Though, unless somebody really knows, it should not be stated in the article that Peru has or has not played at that venue. MarshalN20 ( talk) 18:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Here are some images that I took during the game. Unfortunately, I didn't take many because I was so caught up with the game. And to make matters worse, one of the pictures that was of the team warming up before the game was erased when I accidently stepped on my camera. The sun was very bright that day, which made one of the pictures come out badly.
Image:PeruBrazil final.JPG
Image:Monumental Sur Camiseta.JPG
Image:PeruBrazilanthems.JPG
Image:Monumental U Occidente.JPG
I plan on going to the next home game. The next home 2010 World Cup Qualifier is in June but there are three FIFA-fixed-date friendlies in February, March, and August. So there could possibly be a home game on one of those days. Finally, we should try to place these pics in appropriate places in the article. -- MicroX 00:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
~Second and Fourth are the best. I think I know where I can add them in the article... MarshalN20 ( talk) 23:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
In the article, while I was fixing citations, I found this one. What is it suppose to be?
<ref>Allan Pedersen, "Kroghs oprejsning", ''[[Ekstra Bladet]]'', 20 January 1997</ref>
I need to know so that I can use it in the appropriate template. -- MicroX 03:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone know if the Estadio Nacional is open during the week to the public. I thought of going there to take a good picture of the stadium. There aren't many good or whole free images on Commons or the web. A good picture of the Nacional would be great. I don't think the Monumental will be national team's ground for very long and as soon as someone removes the artificial turf, everyone's going to want to go back. So it'd be best to have a good picture ready. -- MicroX 21:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The new year has started so I will remove all of last years games, except for the four World Cup Qualifiers and start putting the games for this year. -- MicroX 22:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
About the Estadio Nacional, the article currently states that inaugurated on October 27, 1952, it is Peru's main stadium and has hosted all four Copa América's football competitions held in Peru between 1927 and 1957. This is a clear contradiction, how can a stadium inaugurated in 1952 host tournaments held before that year? -- Victor12 ( talk) 18:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm still interested in making this article become FA some day, but at the moment seek to for the least make it to GA. Yet, the section of Noted Players, with its long list of players and no sources to verify such claims, will certainly not serve well in this first step. Hence, I will be trying to find articles validating several of the players from the list. Nonetheless, help from other members interested would also come in quite handy.-- MarshalN20 ( talk) 05:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I was looking around for some links to the "Notable Players" (Used to be "Noted Players," but "Notable" sounds better and makes more sense), and suddenly discovered that Peru the peruvian team had participated and won a series of games known as the "Bolivarian Games." Moreover, I found that this games are backed by the Olympic Comittee and even has judges from the United States as a means of showing the validity of these games. Not only that, and rather surprisingly, the Peruvian delegations had won a series of medals in these games and had even reached top in the medal count, with a historic third place in the competition. The more relevant news for this article come from the apparent fact that the Peruvian football team had won gold in a series of these tournaments...which means that (considering teams from other nations participate) Peru has more than just 4 international titles, and the first international title for Peru did not come during the Copa America of 1939, but rather during the Bolivarian games of 1938! The Bolivarian Games are apparently still played, so any news, links, or whatnot relevant to this article that can be found would be welcomed.-- MarshalN20 ( talk) 15:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I think this is an issue to be improved: it has the appropriate attention but not enough precision. The match was a violent one and had many irregularities that should be stated, primely the match's own termination (with the unclear circumstances surrounding the decisive goals). Some of these irregularities (and, of course, the fact that they lost) led the Austrians protests when the match was declared finished. Another important statistical fact is that the original result (4:2) was declared null, hence it isn't recognized neither by IOC or FIFA. For the official records, Austria had a "win over" Peru when the Peruvians retired themselves from the competition (after rejecting the IOC's resolution on the conflict). All this can be checked within the official IOC reports of the competition. See for instance http://www.la84foundation.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1936/1936v2sum.pdf (pages 1050-1054). I post this here and not in the main article because I want to prevent any controverse. If it's ok to you, in a couple of days I'll insert some of this in the article. Suggestions? Opinions? Ipsumesse ( talk) 19:22, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Peru FA.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 07:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, it has taken nearly 2 years for the article to be once again nominated. This time, however, it seems to me that is by far stronger and much better than the prior attempt. The article is by no means ready to be a Featured Article, but it is on its way. Perhaps, I could have been more ambitious and nominated it for an "A" class status, but for the moment would like for the article to get a step-by-step approval that will (hopefully) come with more improvement suggestions. The main, and perhaps the only problem, at this point and time are the references. Several of them are simple and basic, and need improvement. However, the links all work and the references are factual; in other words, this should not be a determining factor for a GA status.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 22:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that the content of Peru national football team squads is merged into this article. It is currently a content fork and should be covered in appropriate sections in this article in the same way that the current squad and recent call-ups and the previous squads are covered more concisely in the England national football team article. King of the North East 20:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Per WP:RGA#First things to look for, here's a quick assessment of the page to ensure it doesn't warrant an "instant fail", before I review it in depth
So everything's fine here. I'll have a closer look at it over the next couple of hours, but may possibly reserve commenting until later this evening, as my home PC allows me greater flexibility to look at layouts etc in different browsers and at different resolutions. -- DeLarge ( talk) 12:24, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay—had a wee problem with my PC, and I've had to revert to using my laptop for now. In advance, I should disclose that I'll occasionally refer to Scotland national football team for comparison, since it's FA-class. That's not to say I think this page should follow that article slavishly, but it's a good point of comparison.
And even though I'm Scottish, I won't hold 1978 against you... ;)
1. Well written?: Done
2. Factually accurate and
verifiable?: Done
Other referencing issues which I won't mark you down for, but which FA reviewers will require to be fixed:
3. Broad in coverage?: Done
4. Reflects a
neutral point of view?: Done
5. Reasonably stable? Done
6. Illustrated by
images, when possible and appropriate?: Done
That should get you started for now. There might be more to get through, since the problems with my PC tonight forced me to rush this review a little. I'll give it a much closer look over the weekend, covering all the prose in depth and checking all the references. Also, I'll try and do a quick copyedit sometime tomorrow, to fix small grammatical errors. Rather than detailing everything here, it's probably quicker to do those myself.
Overall though, an enjoyable read. I especially like the early history sections, since many Wikipedia articles are guilty of " recentism" and overlook how compelling the past can be.
Overall:
Wow. Thank you for your comments. Before I submited the article to the GA list, I was also attempting to model the article to that of the Scotland national football team. I'll do my best to fix all of the things that you have suggested, but it won't be an easy task since it's just me working with this relatively large article. However, I've been working on it alone for the most part. I'm most worried about the "original research" thing. Since, like I mentioned, it's been mainly just me working with the article, I do not know if what I have done in the article has any original research. In other words, if there's anything in there that constitutes original research, it really was by no means my intention to do that. As of now, I have included the FPF's logo (for the images), deleted the flags from the World Cup section, and deleted the flag from Jose del Solar's name.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Concerning the story of the red sash of Peru, I truly have no idea. However, I've heard three hypothesis from people (probably not factual): 1. The team was trying to copy River Plate's shirt design. 2. The team copied the design of the Uruguay national football team of 1901-1910. 3. The Peruvians simply got it that way because the person designing the shirt wanted to give the team a more "presidential" look (since the President of Peru, and other countries in the planet, tend to like wearing sashes around their chest).-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"The Peruvian teams are often said to play with much technique and elegance, making them one of the finest exponents of South American football." lol. I really like that statement. You're right in saying that it is a tad POV. I judged that since it was the CONMEBOL's website, then it could be counted as verifiable; but I'll move it down. I think it would fit in nicely with the "Notable Players" section.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"Remember that you can use multiple {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help) templates within a single <ref> tag." I'm not sure how to do that. I've done an attempt in citation n. 13. Yet, I'm not sure if that is correct. Could you please show me an example?--
[|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] (
talk)
12:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
(<-- outdent) I've copyedited the article to try and catch all the remaining diacritics, so I'll score that out as done. I also came across one or two instances of links to disambiguation pages, so fixed them too. Finally, I standardized every reference to Valdir Pereira, so it look the same in every instance (I was slightly confused by his nickname not being used in the photo caption, and didn't realise it was a picture of Didi).
I've left the italics as is, except for the reference to Combinado del Pacifico. It's complicated by the fact that as far as I can tell, Copa América is rarely italicized on Wikipedia. Also, re-reading the GA review criteria, I think it's unnecessary to nitpick over MoS issues. That's a job for the FA reviewers. Still, in the long term, I think you'll have to decide whether or not to italicize all the stadia, tournaments, etc which have Spanish names.
I'll start going through the references just now, and also start listing any POV language. I might not get finished tonight, though—it's a long article! Regards, -- DeLarge ( talk) 21:42, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
First, there's a few times that you begin a sentence with "However". For most style guides this isn't wrong (the strictest exception is, I believe, Strunk & White's The Elements of Style), but you might want to change a few instances to "Nevertheless", just for variety.
Second, there's a lot of times where you mention the city where a match took place, especially in the 1970s and 80s. For this, I think the correct term would be <team> in <city>, not "at". Conversely, if you mention the stadium then "at" would be correct, e.g. "...Scotland in Glasgow", but "...Scotland at Hampden Park". However, I'm not convinced that mentioning the city is relevant.
Sorry about hitting you with a big pile like that, but as I said they're all small tweaks
Yup, that looks like all my remarks have been covered. Happy to give this a pass after all your work, so congratulations. It was an enjoyable read, especially the stuff about the early history, the dispute over the bicycle kick's origins, and the Olympics in 1936; the Time magazine reference was a great source for that. Over here we all know about Jesse Owens' achievements, but it was interesting to read up on these "less publicized" events. -- DeLarge ( talk) 18:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The Peruvian team has a series of different nicknames that I have heard throughout its history. Among these are "la Rojiblanca," "los Incas," "El equipo andino," "el equipo de los Andes," "El equipo de la franja," etc.
However, the only constant one that has been used throughout its history is "la Blanquirroja." In Spanish, that means the white-and-red. Now, there is also the similar name of "la Rojiblanca," which in Spanish means the red-and-white. You may ask what the difference is. Well, the first mention on the color in Spanish symbolizes the majority of the color throughout the kit. In the case of the white-and-red (blanquirroja), it serves to say that Peru's kit is more white than red (which is the original case). However, the red-and-white (rojiblanca) states that Peru's kit is more red than white (which serves with the alternate or second kits). I hope this did not sound too confusing.
Either way, I would not mind using both nicknames, or maybe even adding the third nickname of "los Incas" into the jumble. However, having too many nicknames within the article would make it highly unprofessional and confusing to the reader. For instance, if I did not know about the Peruvian football team, I'd be extremely confused if I saw that the article refered to the team as "la blanquirroja," "Peru," "Los Incas," "La rojiblanca," for I would have to associate all of those names to simply the Peru national football team.
I'd like to discuss this so that there will not be any problems in the future. So, what are your opinions on the matter?-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 11:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Como peruano quiero opinar que
La Blanquiroja y La Rojiblanca(por los colores de la camiseta) son los nicknames oficiales de la selección peruana de futbol.
http://www.conmebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=60321&slangab=S
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=873920.html
http://www.conmebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=58707&slangab=S
Y todos los otros nicknames ..
.. son parte del folclore del futbol peruano y de la creatividad de la prensa deportiva. Saludos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.42.59.113 ( talk) 06:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
even Marshall20 said "The Peruvian teams are often said to play with much technique and elegance, making them one of the finest exponents of South American football." lol. I really like that statement. You're right in saying that it is a tad POV. I judged that since it was the CONMEBOL's website, then it could be counted as verifiable; but I'll move it down". moving it down isn't exactly a solution. this is an encyclopaedia not a posting of opinions. if someone read this and knew nothing about Peruvian football they would think it is one of best sides in South America. really it is not just the last year they have struggled. LibStar ( talk) 14:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
the change is fine now. the statement could easily have the word, Brazilian, Argentinian, uruguayuan etc. Please avoid saying statements like "big childish deal about it" that is considered a personal attack. LibStar ( talk) 03:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
CONMEBOL's statement comes under a statement of opinion NOT a fact as defined here "Some sources may be considered reliable for statements as to their author's opinion, but not for statements of fact. A prime example of this are Op-ed columns that are published in mainstream newspapers. When discussing what is said in such sources, it is important to directly attribute the material to its author, and to do so in the main text of the Wikipedia article so readers know that we are discussing someone's opinion". Wikipedia:RS#Statements_of_opinion. LibStar ( talk) 04:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
As I said, this discussion is done. However, I do recommend you to read this: Wikipedia:Recentism.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 04:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
WP:CHILL given the amount of text you have written here you are obviously passionate about defending this statement of opinion. end of discussion as you said... LibStar ( talk) 04:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Whoever nominated the article for reassessment seriously needs to learn to look at things before nominating.
1. The GA review is easily located the in the archive of the Peru national football team, at the top of the list. Since certain people apparently are inexperienced at looking at archives, I have now posted the link to the review at this page.
2. The only problems noted at the FA review were: Improve the writing of the article to meet FA standards, check a few sources that do not have access dates on them, and check the verifiability of a few sources (Which was a completely opinionated request, with the exception of the request to identify Mr. Pulgar-Vidal Otalora's credentials, as the GA review had found them to be acceptable).-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I've contacted Mr. Pulgar Vidal Otalora in order to try to get his credentials as a historian and journalist. Hopefully he will provide us with his credentials.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Mensage para el señor Pulgar Vidal Otalora: Señor Jaime, para proveer sus credenciales por favor aprete el boton "edit" de esta seccion, y simplemente escriba (o copie y pegue los links que tenga para demostrar su calidad como historiador y periodista). Una vez mas le recuerdo que por favor no ponga nada personal, esto es solamente para verificar su estatus como profesional. Gracias por su colaboracion.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
JAIME FRANCISCO PULGAR VIDAL OTÁLORA
ESTUDIOS REALIZADOS
SUPERIORES: Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos Facultad de Ciencias Sociales Carrera de Historia Grado: Bachiller
Maestría en curso Especialidad Historia de América Latina Pontificia Universidad Católica del Perú Lima
EXPERIENCIA LABORAL INSTITUTO SAN IGNACIO DE LOYOLA: Docente curso Historia del Deporte. 2009 CABLE MÁGICO DEPORTES: Programa Partido Aparte. Reportajes de investigación sobre fútbol. 2008 a la actualidad CABLE MÁGICO DEPORTES: Investigación y redacción de guiones del Programa sobre historia del fútbol “Crónicas de balón” 2004- 2007 UNMSM: Jefe de práctica. Cursos: Historia de América 2. Historia de América 3. 2007 FRECUENCIA LATINA: Programa El Equipo. Jefe de Prensa. 2001 – 2003 ANDINA DE RADIODIFUSIÓN: Programa El Equipo. Jefe de Prensa. 1997 – 2001 PROGRAMA LA CLAVE CON CÉSAR HILDEBRANDT: Comentarista de Noticias Deportivas 1996 GLOBAL TELEVISIÓN:Programa Deportivo Acción. Reportero. Comentarista. Jefe de Prensa.1992 – 1997 REVISTA LA COPA Y LOS MEJORES: Jefe de Redacción. 1993 DIARIO LA TERCERA:Editor de Deportes. 1992 RADIO MIRAFLORES:Programa Hablemos de Deporte. Comentarista. 1991 DIARIO PÁGINA LIBRE: Sub Editor de Deportes.1990 REVISTA TODO FÚTBOL: Reportero. Coordinador periodístico. 1988 - 1989
PUBLICACIONES COMO HISTORIADOR
• “El padrino: los vínculos de Augusto B. Leguía con el mundo del fútbol”. En: Ciencias Sociales. Revista de Estudiantes de Ciencias Sociales; Lima, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Fondo Editorial de la Facultad de Ciencias Sociales, Nº 1, mayo de 2007, pp. 99- 113.
• “La teoría de la dependencia y la historia política”. En: Uku Pacha. Revista de Investigaciones Históricas, Año 6, Nº 11, julio de 2007, pp. 147- 152.
• “A bastonazo limpio: la historia del primer clásico del fútbol peruano”. En: Aldo Panfichi, editor; Ese gol existe. Lima, Fondo Editorial de la Pontificia Universidad Católica del Perú, julio de 2008, pp. 111-134.
• “Discriminación en blanco y negro”. En: Frank Huamaní y María Aguirre, editores; Lima a través de la prensa. Lima, julio de 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.234.59.84 ( talk) 00:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Curious as to why the image of the three managers was removed from the article. Everything seems to be in order. AniRaptor2001 18:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
User:Fasach Nua posted a maintenance tag of the article possibly containing too many non-free images. He did not make an argument as to why he posted that, but he did provide the rules as to why there might be too many non-free images. Since no argument was provided from his part, I will provide a defensive argument.
1. All of the images are properly referenced (in their respective image pages) and have an appropiate non-free use rational.
2. There are only 6 non-free images. It's not an excessive amount of non-free images, and each convey a particular topic of interest that is necessary for the article.
3. Here is the Peru national football team rational for each of the images:
-The image depicting the 1930s Golden Generation is necessary because it depicts Peru's first "great" team. It is the team that participated in the 1936 Berlin Olympics, won Peru's first Copa America, and participated in the first FIFA world cup. It is also essentially one of Peru's earlier teams, and thus is necessary in order to depict the history of the team. There is no possible way for a free image to appear of this team (probabilities are too minimal). The only way this image will become "free" is when 100 years have passed (as I recall that's one of the rules for free images) in the year 2030.
-The image depicting Juan Seminario scoring a goal against England is the only action picture of the article. Moreover, it is one of the better results of the Peruvian team and is historically important. There is also no possible way for a free image to replace this one as the game itself is rather "forgotten" by many Peruvian fans and English fans alike. The "forgotten" part of it is what makes it that much more important to have it in an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia.
-The image of the 1970s Golden Generation basically has the same criteria as that of the 1930s generation.
-The picture of Teofilo Cubillas, who is still alive, will not be available for free use until he dies. He is widely considered to be the best Peruvian player of all times, received several important international awards, and deserves to have his image in the team's article as he is essentially an icon of the Peru national football team.
-The FIFA Fair Play Trophy award is an important and memorable award that Peru received in the 1970s. It is one of the most important awards given to the national team as FIFA, the maximum authority of international football, awarded it to Peru. There is no free content that can replace this image.
-The memorable games picture, which does hold a reasonable rational for its appearance in the article, does not hold as much strength as the other images. I'll remove this one as it could be replaced with a free image.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Later than promised, some post-FAC comments on possible improvements.
More to follow, give me a poke on my talk page if I forget. Oldelpaso ( talk) 09:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
AND, the final thing would be another copy-edit. The peer reviewer gave a good one, and I tried to fix a couple of things also. However, there are still things that could be improved. I'm sure this article will reach FA status soon.-- $%MarshalN20%$ ( talk) 00:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there anybody who can find who where the managers of Peru during these years? As hard as I've tried to look for some data, nothing comes up.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 21:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I just remember Marcos Calderon for Qualifying World Cup 1966 / Solo recuerdo haber leido que fue Marcos Calderon, en las eliminatorias para Inglaterra '66. (1965). Acabo de editarlo en la lista de Managers, en la version en ibgles. Alguna vez lei una lista mas exacta, pero no recuerdo donde en internet. veo que sale Jaime de Almeyda como Dt en 1963, me imagino que fue para la Copa America de Bolivia (ese equipo era muy aliancista con Bazan,Pitin,Perico, recordar que el Sr De Almeyda entreno ese equipo). Faltaria ver quien fue el tecnico en las eliminatorias de 1961 y creo que ya no habrian mas Managers. Ojo, en 1967 el tecnico aun era Calderon, ya que lei sobre un partido amistoso de mediados del '67 Peru 0 - Uruguay 1, con Alberto Spencer jugando para Uruguay, por ello prefiero poner en la pagina wiki, Marcos Calderon (1965-67) compartiendo esta funcion con la de entrenador de la U, al estilo Guus Hiddink con PSV y Australia hace unos 3 años. Rrvio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 04:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
En realidad, se que Didí asumio entre Abril a Junio de 1968. Es logico que en intervalo entre Calderon (1967) y Didi no hubiera ningun tecnico. De hecho, en 1967 el Peru no asistio a la Copa America, por ello no hubo motivo para tener un seleccionador. Eso si, tuvieron la vision de iniciar el proceso a MExico 70 casi 2 años antes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 00:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Muy interesante tu lista List of managers of the Peru national football team. Mas bien, sobre el DT de 1986, lei el sgte. articulo: http://dechalaca.com/content/view/238/89/ Pienso, por ello, que la "gestion" de Challe solo abarco el periodo entre el Partido Peru 4 vs Venezuela 1 (16/06/85) y el Peru 0 vs Chile 1 (03/11/85). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 20:23, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I see new additions to the "current squad" section. Are we going to base the current squad listing on the last games played, or are we going to do a full list? I'd preffer a shorter last-squad used list; mainly because it lowers the amount of memory in the article. Any opinions?-- MarshalN20 | Talk 18:40, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
It's rather absurd to be working with a "current possible squad" list that people are randomly making up. Here is an article from Peru.com that has a list of the squad of local players that Markarian is using in preparation for the game against Canada: http://www.peru.com/futbol/seleccion20100803/110815/Peru-trabajo-por-segunda-vez-con-Sergio-Markarian-a-la-cabeza Feel free to use the link to use that as a base for the "current squad" section.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 17:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
If anybody would like to add these into the article, please go ahead and do it. We should start the "recent call-ups" section based on this first call-up by Markarian.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
You should add Claudio Pizarro in the Recent callups -- 190.81.168.163 ( talk) 15:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
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I've condensed and clarified the text as far as I can, and I have a few points to mention that perhaps more subject-oriented editors could think about. They're not major point, but if you're going for F.A status might be pertinent:
I hope my edits have improved the article. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 19:10, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
why not integrate the records into the article about the national team like in other cases?-- Severino ( talk) 16:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I honestly do not understand why the templates are being deleted from the article. They help reduce the size of the article while presenting the same information as the navboxes. Please discuss.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 15:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Sawol, are we discussing two templates or more? The 1936 Summer Olympics template is used in two articles (including this one). The merit of players is also outside the discussion, although I have to completely disagree with the assertion that individual players are not notable. Please explain how having the current two templates with sub-templates is wrong or harmful? Calling it an "aberration" does not do much to help me understand why it is wrong. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 14:51, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
User:MarshalN20, visit below
No one make the third template like Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads. So Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads is redundant and will become wrong or harmful. You should not think that Peru national football team is in the possession of you. Explain that Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads is not redundant. Regards. Sawol ( talk) 08:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Is it only me or is the TOC (table of contents) stretched throughout the whole page width? Parutakupiu ( talk) 23:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Per the official FIFA website (see [1]), the 1997 Copa America match between Brazil and Peru took place in Santa Cruz, Bolivia. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Why are we in American English here? This revision seems to be in UK English. When and why was it changed? -- John ( talk) 21:01, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Peru national football team needs attention, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:02, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I find both dmy and mdy date formats in the article. It should be fixed for an FA article.
HandsomeFella ( talk) 15:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I didnt remember last time i saw Peru with a sky blue sash, its back to red now :) -- Nasdaq 01:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
The article has greatly improved since it was first rated due to the help it has been getting by various people. Now, we need to further plan out how to make the article even better. Make some suggestions here (Which is the purpose of the discussion page, I suppose) so that others understand what you're planning to do or what you would want for the article to have. I myself would like if somebody with a greater knowledge on the subject to expand on how the Peruvian team has done in the Copa America (As a preview, like the section previous to the "World Cup and Qualifiers"). Perhaps also somehow mention more about Peru in other tournaments like in the Kirin Cup, Gold Cup, and Olimpics. I will also keep contributing to the article. But, are there any other ideas you might have? MarshalN20 22:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
~The article is looking more and more impressive, a far cry from its previous status. Selecciones de la Vida 05:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
As suggested by the peer review, the stuff on the World Cup and Copa America (not the records, though) should be merged into History. When you first enter the article page, there are several titles which kind of distract the reader. I think it would be best that there should be subtitles under History used instead of various new titles. -- MicroX 23:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the Interesting Facts section because:
I also moved the citation for the chalaca move into the article. -- MicroX 23:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
~I would like to first begin by thanking you, MicroX, for taking the time to want to discuss this article. Now that you have openly stated your ideas, I can see what you want to do.
Now, back on subject, yes, it was a good idea for you to delete the trivia-like section of the article. Yet, I disagree that the World Cup History and the Copa America history should be merged in with the "General History" of the Peruvian team. The reasons to this are that: World Cup History and Copa America history are specific sections of the article that specifically discuss those subjects; and it would be highly illogical to truncate these sections that have been hardly worked on. I read your ideas in the bottom part of this discussion section, I'll continue this discussion on that part. MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
==Last and next games==
==History==
→La Blanquirroja in the FIFA World Cup
→Copa America
→Records
→La Blanquirroja in other tournaments
==Home stadium==
==Noted players==
==Recent matches==
==Current squad==
==Managers==
==Kit evolution==
==Football rivalries==
==Under 17 team==
==See also==
==References==
==External links==
-- MicroX 19:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
~That's perfect. I'll make the "Alternate Stadiums" sub-section. MarshalN20 ( talk) 23:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I did some major editing to the article, including the re-arranging of various parts and deletion of the U-17 section (since there's a whole article for it already, there's no need for it in the Peru national team article). The format I based this re-arranging on was a Wikipedia structure for football articles, and the above suggestion by MicroX. Some things I did not do was mixing the individual histories of the tournaments Peru participated into the main "history" section of the article as I still think that the main history should be an overview while the individual sections for the tournaments should be more in-depth to the actual participation of Peru. It was also suggested, by Victor12, that the format of the article get somewhat closer to the Scotland national football team article, so I tried imitating some of the things in that article, but did not completely follow their structure such as (at least the way I see it) their first history section which looked as if somebody had simply got a bunch of information and stuck it in there for the heck of it (and put a bunch of sources along with it). Adding to it that I don't think it would be deserving for this article to be a complete imitation of the Scottish team article. On the overall, I really think this article should get a GA rating. I know more references are needed, there are some POV problems, and some grammar mistakes, but that only means the article is still not ready to be an FA class article, it does not mean that the rating cannot go up into a GA, for the least.--~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarshalN20 ( talk • contribs) 16:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
This article's nomination on Good Article Candidates has been failed due to a lack of references. Facts which could potentially be questioned by a sceptical reader should be attributed to a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Citing sources for more details. YouTube videos should not generally be used as references. Oldelpaso 17:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
For further improvement and suggestions you might want to submit the article for peer review at Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru/Peer review. You'll be sure to get some useful reviews. Greetings, -- Victor12 17:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I did a small peer review and these are the suggestions it gave me. The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. I think we need to work on deciding if the article should be American English or British English and reducing the size of the article because it is very long. Thanks, MicroX 23:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
~The idea of the recent and previous games for the article was very good. Yet, I would not like for the section showing all the games the team has recently played to be erased. It is not long, and it really is necessary to show the team's results. Perhaps once that section gets long, it can be made into a new article (specifically for the purpose of seeing the records of the recent matches of the Peruvian national team).
-Make a page called "History of the Peruvian National Football Team," and there send the long information in the sections of the World Cup (Qualifiers and Participations), the Copa America (Participations), and summarize the "General History" and add the long section currently in this article into the new article.
Well, that's all I've got to write for now. I can tell that your editing, MicroX, will greatly improve this article. Just please take into consideration some of the things I've pointed out. If you need any help with the article, don't doubt to contact me (I'll try my best to help). MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I've got two tickets right now that are for a Peruvian FIFA World Cup Qualifier. Would it be a copyright violation if I scanned them and uploaded them onto Wikipedia for this article? -- MicroX 19:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
-If you've bought the tickets, then I see no reason as to why you wouldn't be able to post them. Yet, the only problem I would see with this is in the case the ticket has some trademarks in it. If you can, after you scan the picture try to make those trademarks blurry as to there won't be a problem with the company. Other than that, since you bought the ticket, you have the right to do whatever you want with it. MarshalN20 ( talk) 00:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
-That's a terrible trend with Peruvian companies, but nonetheless (for courtesy), it would be best to simply respect their "trademark" (even if they really haven't registered the logo). It's better to simply stay away from that kind of trouble. Also, something I was thinking about, if you're going to go to the game; perhaps you could try to take some pictures of the game so that you can later upload one photo for the article? I know it's hard to bring in cameras into the Peruvian stadium (Especially with the risk of it getting stolen), but the article would greatly benefit from a picture of the team actually playing. MarshalN20 ( talk) 06:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
The traditional stadium of Peru is the Estadio Nacional. But the Estadio Monumental "U" is used now by the team. I think it would be logical to include something on the Monumental in the Home Stadium section. -- MicroX 02:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
-Technically speaking, the Monumental is not really the "Home Stadium." You're completely correct, though, in stating that the team has recently been using the Monumental (I've read several papers stating that the coach has said he preffers to use that stadium due to controversies with the synthetic field) as the stadium. I think a sub-section within the Home Stadium section called: "Alternative Stadiums" would come in handy. Sometimes the team has also used the Alejandro Villanueva stadium, I think if I remember well, and also the Cusco stadium. So on that "Alternative Stadiums" sub-section there can be a mention of all the alternative stadiums used by the team (the current one at the top, of course). MarshalN20 ( talk) 06:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
"Silva said the decision on the location of the Oct 13 clash with Paraguay would be taken soon and that three stadium's are under consideration: Cusco's Garcilaso de la Vega Stadium, which is also 3,400 metres above sea level, and the Monumental Stadium.
Both stadiums are included in the FIFA list, alongside Lima's National Stadium and Alejandro Villanueva Stadium, even though the world football governing body is opposed to official games being played at more than 3,000 metres above sea level."
Even if Peru has not actually played in the stadium, they are part of the list of alternate stadiums the team planned to use. Though, unless somebody really knows, it should not be stated in the article that Peru has or has not played at that venue. MarshalN20 ( talk) 18:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Here are some images that I took during the game. Unfortunately, I didn't take many because I was so caught up with the game. And to make matters worse, one of the pictures that was of the team warming up before the game was erased when I accidently stepped on my camera. The sun was very bright that day, which made one of the pictures come out badly.
Image:PeruBrazil final.JPG
Image:Monumental Sur Camiseta.JPG
Image:PeruBrazilanthems.JPG
Image:Monumental U Occidente.JPG
I plan on going to the next home game. The next home 2010 World Cup Qualifier is in June but there are three FIFA-fixed-date friendlies in February, March, and August. So there could possibly be a home game on one of those days. Finally, we should try to place these pics in appropriate places in the article. -- MicroX 00:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
~Second and Fourth are the best. I think I know where I can add them in the article... MarshalN20 ( talk) 23:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
In the article, while I was fixing citations, I found this one. What is it suppose to be?
<ref>Allan Pedersen, "Kroghs oprejsning", ''[[Ekstra Bladet]]'', 20 January 1997</ref>
I need to know so that I can use it in the appropriate template. -- MicroX 03:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone know if the Estadio Nacional is open during the week to the public. I thought of going there to take a good picture of the stadium. There aren't many good or whole free images on Commons or the web. A good picture of the Nacional would be great. I don't think the Monumental will be national team's ground for very long and as soon as someone removes the artificial turf, everyone's going to want to go back. So it'd be best to have a good picture ready. -- MicroX 21:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The new year has started so I will remove all of last years games, except for the four World Cup Qualifiers and start putting the games for this year. -- MicroX 22:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
About the Estadio Nacional, the article currently states that inaugurated on October 27, 1952, it is Peru's main stadium and has hosted all four Copa América's football competitions held in Peru between 1927 and 1957. This is a clear contradiction, how can a stadium inaugurated in 1952 host tournaments held before that year? -- Victor12 ( talk) 18:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm still interested in making this article become FA some day, but at the moment seek to for the least make it to GA. Yet, the section of Noted Players, with its long list of players and no sources to verify such claims, will certainly not serve well in this first step. Hence, I will be trying to find articles validating several of the players from the list. Nonetheless, help from other members interested would also come in quite handy.-- MarshalN20 ( talk) 05:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I was looking around for some links to the "Notable Players" (Used to be "Noted Players," but "Notable" sounds better and makes more sense), and suddenly discovered that Peru the peruvian team had participated and won a series of games known as the "Bolivarian Games." Moreover, I found that this games are backed by the Olympic Comittee and even has judges from the United States as a means of showing the validity of these games. Not only that, and rather surprisingly, the Peruvian delegations had won a series of medals in these games and had even reached top in the medal count, with a historic third place in the competition. The more relevant news for this article come from the apparent fact that the Peruvian football team had won gold in a series of these tournaments...which means that (considering teams from other nations participate) Peru has more than just 4 international titles, and the first international title for Peru did not come during the Copa America of 1939, but rather during the Bolivarian games of 1938! The Bolivarian Games are apparently still played, so any news, links, or whatnot relevant to this article that can be found would be welcomed.-- MarshalN20 ( talk) 15:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I think this is an issue to be improved: it has the appropriate attention but not enough precision. The match was a violent one and had many irregularities that should be stated, primely the match's own termination (with the unclear circumstances surrounding the decisive goals). Some of these irregularities (and, of course, the fact that they lost) led the Austrians protests when the match was declared finished. Another important statistical fact is that the original result (4:2) was declared null, hence it isn't recognized neither by IOC or FIFA. For the official records, Austria had a "win over" Peru when the Peruvians retired themselves from the competition (after rejecting the IOC's resolution on the conflict). All this can be checked within the official IOC reports of the competition. See for instance http://www.la84foundation.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1936/1936v2sum.pdf (pages 1050-1054). I post this here and not in the main article because I want to prevent any controverse. If it's ok to you, in a couple of days I'll insert some of this in the article. Suggestions? Opinions? Ipsumesse ( talk) 19:22, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
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Well, it has taken nearly 2 years for the article to be once again nominated. This time, however, it seems to me that is by far stronger and much better than the prior attempt. The article is by no means ready to be a Featured Article, but it is on its way. Perhaps, I could have been more ambitious and nominated it for an "A" class status, but for the moment would like for the article to get a step-by-step approval that will (hopefully) come with more improvement suggestions. The main, and perhaps the only problem, at this point and time are the references. Several of them are simple and basic, and need improvement. However, the links all work and the references are factual; in other words, this should not be a determining factor for a GA status.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 22:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that the content of Peru national football team squads is merged into this article. It is currently a content fork and should be covered in appropriate sections in this article in the same way that the current squad and recent call-ups and the previous squads are covered more concisely in the England national football team article. King of the North East 20:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Per WP:RGA#First things to look for, here's a quick assessment of the page to ensure it doesn't warrant an "instant fail", before I review it in depth
So everything's fine here. I'll have a closer look at it over the next couple of hours, but may possibly reserve commenting until later this evening, as my home PC allows me greater flexibility to look at layouts etc in different browsers and at different resolutions. -- DeLarge ( talk) 12:24, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay—had a wee problem with my PC, and I've had to revert to using my laptop for now. In advance, I should disclose that I'll occasionally refer to Scotland national football team for comparison, since it's FA-class. That's not to say I think this page should follow that article slavishly, but it's a good point of comparison.
And even though I'm Scottish, I won't hold 1978 against you... ;)
1. Well written?: Done
2. Factually accurate and
verifiable?: Done
Other referencing issues which I won't mark you down for, but which FA reviewers will require to be fixed:
3. Broad in coverage?: Done
4. Reflects a
neutral point of view?: Done
5. Reasonably stable? Done
6. Illustrated by
images, when possible and appropriate?: Done
That should get you started for now. There might be more to get through, since the problems with my PC tonight forced me to rush this review a little. I'll give it a much closer look over the weekend, covering all the prose in depth and checking all the references. Also, I'll try and do a quick copyedit sometime tomorrow, to fix small grammatical errors. Rather than detailing everything here, it's probably quicker to do those myself.
Overall though, an enjoyable read. I especially like the early history sections, since many Wikipedia articles are guilty of " recentism" and overlook how compelling the past can be.
Overall:
Wow. Thank you for your comments. Before I submited the article to the GA list, I was also attempting to model the article to that of the Scotland national football team. I'll do my best to fix all of the things that you have suggested, but it won't be an easy task since it's just me working with this relatively large article. However, I've been working on it alone for the most part. I'm most worried about the "original research" thing. Since, like I mentioned, it's been mainly just me working with the article, I do not know if what I have done in the article has any original research. In other words, if there's anything in there that constitutes original research, it really was by no means my intention to do that. As of now, I have included the FPF's logo (for the images), deleted the flags from the World Cup section, and deleted the flag from Jose del Solar's name.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Concerning the story of the red sash of Peru, I truly have no idea. However, I've heard three hypothesis from people (probably not factual): 1. The team was trying to copy River Plate's shirt design. 2. The team copied the design of the Uruguay national football team of 1901-1910. 3. The Peruvians simply got it that way because the person designing the shirt wanted to give the team a more "presidential" look (since the President of Peru, and other countries in the planet, tend to like wearing sashes around their chest).-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"The Peruvian teams are often said to play with much technique and elegance, making them one of the finest exponents of South American football." lol. I really like that statement. You're right in saying that it is a tad POV. I judged that since it was the CONMEBOL's website, then it could be counted as verifiable; but I'll move it down. I think it would fit in nicely with the "Notable Players" section.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 00:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"Remember that you can use multiple {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help) templates within a single <ref> tag." I'm not sure how to do that. I've done an attempt in citation n. 13. Yet, I'm not sure if that is correct. Could you please show me an example?--
[|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] (
talk)
12:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
(<-- outdent) I've copyedited the article to try and catch all the remaining diacritics, so I'll score that out as done. I also came across one or two instances of links to disambiguation pages, so fixed them too. Finally, I standardized every reference to Valdir Pereira, so it look the same in every instance (I was slightly confused by his nickname not being used in the photo caption, and didn't realise it was a picture of Didi).
I've left the italics as is, except for the reference to Combinado del Pacifico. It's complicated by the fact that as far as I can tell, Copa América is rarely italicized on Wikipedia. Also, re-reading the GA review criteria, I think it's unnecessary to nitpick over MoS issues. That's a job for the FA reviewers. Still, in the long term, I think you'll have to decide whether or not to italicize all the stadia, tournaments, etc which have Spanish names.
I'll start going through the references just now, and also start listing any POV language. I might not get finished tonight, though—it's a long article! Regards, -- DeLarge ( talk) 21:42, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
First, there's a few times that you begin a sentence with "However". For most style guides this isn't wrong (the strictest exception is, I believe, Strunk & White's The Elements of Style), but you might want to change a few instances to "Nevertheless", just for variety.
Second, there's a lot of times where you mention the city where a match took place, especially in the 1970s and 80s. For this, I think the correct term would be <team> in <city>, not "at". Conversely, if you mention the stadium then "at" would be correct, e.g. "...Scotland in Glasgow", but "...Scotland at Hampden Park". However, I'm not convinced that mentioning the city is relevant.
Sorry about hitting you with a big pile like that, but as I said they're all small tweaks
Yup, that looks like all my remarks have been covered. Happy to give this a pass after all your work, so congratulations. It was an enjoyable read, especially the stuff about the early history, the dispute over the bicycle kick's origins, and the Olympics in 1936; the Time magazine reference was a great source for that. Over here we all know about Jesse Owens' achievements, but it was interesting to read up on these "less publicized" events. -- DeLarge ( talk) 18:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The Peruvian team has a series of different nicknames that I have heard throughout its history. Among these are "la Rojiblanca," "los Incas," "El equipo andino," "el equipo de los Andes," "El equipo de la franja," etc.
However, the only constant one that has been used throughout its history is "la Blanquirroja." In Spanish, that means the white-and-red. Now, there is also the similar name of "la Rojiblanca," which in Spanish means the red-and-white. You may ask what the difference is. Well, the first mention on the color in Spanish symbolizes the majority of the color throughout the kit. In the case of the white-and-red (blanquirroja), it serves to say that Peru's kit is more white than red (which is the original case). However, the red-and-white (rojiblanca) states that Peru's kit is more red than white (which serves with the alternate or second kits). I hope this did not sound too confusing.
Either way, I would not mind using both nicknames, or maybe even adding the third nickname of "los Incas" into the jumble. However, having too many nicknames within the article would make it highly unprofessional and confusing to the reader. For instance, if I did not know about the Peruvian football team, I'd be extremely confused if I saw that the article refered to the team as "la blanquirroja," "Peru," "Los Incas," "La rojiblanca," for I would have to associate all of those names to simply the Peru national football team.
I'd like to discuss this so that there will not be any problems in the future. So, what are your opinions on the matter?-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 11:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Como peruano quiero opinar que
La Blanquiroja y La Rojiblanca(por los colores de la camiseta) son los nicknames oficiales de la selección peruana de futbol.
http://www.conmebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=60321&slangab=S
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=873920.html
http://www.conmebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=58707&slangab=S
Y todos los otros nicknames ..
.. son parte del folclore del futbol peruano y de la creatividad de la prensa deportiva. Saludos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.42.59.113 ( talk) 06:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
even Marshall20 said "The Peruvian teams are often said to play with much technique and elegance, making them one of the finest exponents of South American football." lol. I really like that statement. You're right in saying that it is a tad POV. I judged that since it was the CONMEBOL's website, then it could be counted as verifiable; but I'll move it down". moving it down isn't exactly a solution. this is an encyclopaedia not a posting of opinions. if someone read this and knew nothing about Peruvian football they would think it is one of best sides in South America. really it is not just the last year they have struggled. LibStar ( talk) 14:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
the change is fine now. the statement could easily have the word, Brazilian, Argentinian, uruguayuan etc. Please avoid saying statements like "big childish deal about it" that is considered a personal attack. LibStar ( talk) 03:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
CONMEBOL's statement comes under a statement of opinion NOT a fact as defined here "Some sources may be considered reliable for statements as to their author's opinion, but not for statements of fact. A prime example of this are Op-ed columns that are published in mainstream newspapers. When discussing what is said in such sources, it is important to directly attribute the material to its author, and to do so in the main text of the Wikipedia article so readers know that we are discussing someone's opinion". Wikipedia:RS#Statements_of_opinion. LibStar ( talk) 04:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
As I said, this discussion is done. However, I do recommend you to read this: Wikipedia:Recentism.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 04:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
WP:CHILL given the amount of text you have written here you are obviously passionate about defending this statement of opinion. end of discussion as you said... LibStar ( talk) 04:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Whoever nominated the article for reassessment seriously needs to learn to look at things before nominating.
1. The GA review is easily located the in the archive of the Peru national football team, at the top of the list. Since certain people apparently are inexperienced at looking at archives, I have now posted the link to the review at this page.
2. The only problems noted at the FA review were: Improve the writing of the article to meet FA standards, check a few sources that do not have access dates on them, and check the verifiability of a few sources (Which was a completely opinionated request, with the exception of the request to identify Mr. Pulgar-Vidal Otalora's credentials, as the GA review had found them to be acceptable).-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I've contacted Mr. Pulgar Vidal Otalora in order to try to get his credentials as a historian and journalist. Hopefully he will provide us with his credentials.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Mensage para el señor Pulgar Vidal Otalora: Señor Jaime, para proveer sus credenciales por favor aprete el boton "edit" de esta seccion, y simplemente escriba (o copie y pegue los links que tenga para demostrar su calidad como historiador y periodista). Una vez mas le recuerdo que por favor no ponga nada personal, esto es solamente para verificar su estatus como profesional. Gracias por su colaboracion.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
JAIME FRANCISCO PULGAR VIDAL OTÁLORA
ESTUDIOS REALIZADOS
SUPERIORES: Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos Facultad de Ciencias Sociales Carrera de Historia Grado: Bachiller
Maestría en curso Especialidad Historia de América Latina Pontificia Universidad Católica del Perú Lima
EXPERIENCIA LABORAL INSTITUTO SAN IGNACIO DE LOYOLA: Docente curso Historia del Deporte. 2009 CABLE MÁGICO DEPORTES: Programa Partido Aparte. Reportajes de investigación sobre fútbol. 2008 a la actualidad CABLE MÁGICO DEPORTES: Investigación y redacción de guiones del Programa sobre historia del fútbol “Crónicas de balón” 2004- 2007 UNMSM: Jefe de práctica. Cursos: Historia de América 2. Historia de América 3. 2007 FRECUENCIA LATINA: Programa El Equipo. Jefe de Prensa. 2001 – 2003 ANDINA DE RADIODIFUSIÓN: Programa El Equipo. Jefe de Prensa. 1997 – 2001 PROGRAMA LA CLAVE CON CÉSAR HILDEBRANDT: Comentarista de Noticias Deportivas 1996 GLOBAL TELEVISIÓN:Programa Deportivo Acción. Reportero. Comentarista. Jefe de Prensa.1992 – 1997 REVISTA LA COPA Y LOS MEJORES: Jefe de Redacción. 1993 DIARIO LA TERCERA:Editor de Deportes. 1992 RADIO MIRAFLORES:Programa Hablemos de Deporte. Comentarista. 1991 DIARIO PÁGINA LIBRE: Sub Editor de Deportes.1990 REVISTA TODO FÚTBOL: Reportero. Coordinador periodístico. 1988 - 1989
PUBLICACIONES COMO HISTORIADOR
• “El padrino: los vínculos de Augusto B. Leguía con el mundo del fútbol”. En: Ciencias Sociales. Revista de Estudiantes de Ciencias Sociales; Lima, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Fondo Editorial de la Facultad de Ciencias Sociales, Nº 1, mayo de 2007, pp. 99- 113.
• “La teoría de la dependencia y la historia política”. En: Uku Pacha. Revista de Investigaciones Históricas, Año 6, Nº 11, julio de 2007, pp. 147- 152.
• “A bastonazo limpio: la historia del primer clásico del fútbol peruano”. En: Aldo Panfichi, editor; Ese gol existe. Lima, Fondo Editorial de la Pontificia Universidad Católica del Perú, julio de 2008, pp. 111-134.
• “Discriminación en blanco y negro”. En: Frank Huamaní y María Aguirre, editores; Lima a través de la prensa. Lima, julio de 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.234.59.84 ( talk) 00:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Curious as to why the image of the three managers was removed from the article. Everything seems to be in order. AniRaptor2001 18:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
User:Fasach Nua posted a maintenance tag of the article possibly containing too many non-free images. He did not make an argument as to why he posted that, but he did provide the rules as to why there might be too many non-free images. Since no argument was provided from his part, I will provide a defensive argument.
1. All of the images are properly referenced (in their respective image pages) and have an appropiate non-free use rational.
2. There are only 6 non-free images. It's not an excessive amount of non-free images, and each convey a particular topic of interest that is necessary for the article.
3. Here is the Peru national football team rational for each of the images:
-The image depicting the 1930s Golden Generation is necessary because it depicts Peru's first "great" team. It is the team that participated in the 1936 Berlin Olympics, won Peru's first Copa America, and participated in the first FIFA world cup. It is also essentially one of Peru's earlier teams, and thus is necessary in order to depict the history of the team. There is no possible way for a free image to appear of this team (probabilities are too minimal). The only way this image will become "free" is when 100 years have passed (as I recall that's one of the rules for free images) in the year 2030.
-The image depicting Juan Seminario scoring a goal against England is the only action picture of the article. Moreover, it is one of the better results of the Peruvian team and is historically important. There is also no possible way for a free image to replace this one as the game itself is rather "forgotten" by many Peruvian fans and English fans alike. The "forgotten" part of it is what makes it that much more important to have it in an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia.
-The image of the 1970s Golden Generation basically has the same criteria as that of the 1930s generation.
-The picture of Teofilo Cubillas, who is still alive, will not be available for free use until he dies. He is widely considered to be the best Peruvian player of all times, received several important international awards, and deserves to have his image in the team's article as he is essentially an icon of the Peru national football team.
-The FIFA Fair Play Trophy award is an important and memorable award that Peru received in the 1970s. It is one of the most important awards given to the national team as FIFA, the maximum authority of international football, awarded it to Peru. There is no free content that can replace this image.
-The memorable games picture, which does hold a reasonable rational for its appearance in the article, does not hold as much strength as the other images. I'll remove this one as it could be replaced with a free image.-- [|!*//MarshalN20\\*!|] ( talk) 20:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Later than promised, some post-FAC comments on possible improvements.
More to follow, give me a poke on my talk page if I forget. Oldelpaso ( talk) 09:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
AND, the final thing would be another copy-edit. The peer reviewer gave a good one, and I tried to fix a couple of things also. However, there are still things that could be improved. I'm sure this article will reach FA status soon.-- $%MarshalN20%$ ( talk) 00:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there anybody who can find who where the managers of Peru during these years? As hard as I've tried to look for some data, nothing comes up.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 21:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I just remember Marcos Calderon for Qualifying World Cup 1966 / Solo recuerdo haber leido que fue Marcos Calderon, en las eliminatorias para Inglaterra '66. (1965). Acabo de editarlo en la lista de Managers, en la version en ibgles. Alguna vez lei una lista mas exacta, pero no recuerdo donde en internet. veo que sale Jaime de Almeyda como Dt en 1963, me imagino que fue para la Copa America de Bolivia (ese equipo era muy aliancista con Bazan,Pitin,Perico, recordar que el Sr De Almeyda entreno ese equipo). Faltaria ver quien fue el tecnico en las eliminatorias de 1961 y creo que ya no habrian mas Managers. Ojo, en 1967 el tecnico aun era Calderon, ya que lei sobre un partido amistoso de mediados del '67 Peru 0 - Uruguay 1, con Alberto Spencer jugando para Uruguay, por ello prefiero poner en la pagina wiki, Marcos Calderon (1965-67) compartiendo esta funcion con la de entrenador de la U, al estilo Guus Hiddink con PSV y Australia hace unos 3 años. Rrvio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 04:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
En realidad, se que Didí asumio entre Abril a Junio de 1968. Es logico que en intervalo entre Calderon (1967) y Didi no hubiera ningun tecnico. De hecho, en 1967 el Peru no asistio a la Copa America, por ello no hubo motivo para tener un seleccionador. Eso si, tuvieron la vision de iniciar el proceso a MExico 70 casi 2 años antes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 00:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Muy interesante tu lista List of managers of the Peru national football team. Mas bien, sobre el DT de 1986, lei el sgte. articulo: http://dechalaca.com/content/view/238/89/ Pienso, por ello, que la "gestion" de Challe solo abarco el periodo entre el Partido Peru 4 vs Venezuela 1 (16/06/85) y el Peru 0 vs Chile 1 (03/11/85). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrvio ( talk • contribs) 20:23, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I see new additions to the "current squad" section. Are we going to base the current squad listing on the last games played, or are we going to do a full list? I'd preffer a shorter last-squad used list; mainly because it lowers the amount of memory in the article. Any opinions?-- MarshalN20 | Talk 18:40, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
It's rather absurd to be working with a "current possible squad" list that people are randomly making up. Here is an article from Peru.com that has a list of the squad of local players that Markarian is using in preparation for the game against Canada: http://www.peru.com/futbol/seleccion20100803/110815/Peru-trabajo-por-segunda-vez-con-Sergio-Markarian-a-la-cabeza Feel free to use the link to use that as a base for the "current squad" section.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 17:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
If anybody would like to add these into the article, please go ahead and do it. We should start the "recent call-ups" section based on this first call-up by Markarian.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
You should add Claudio Pizarro in the Recent callups -- 190.81.168.163 ( talk) 15:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
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I've condensed and clarified the text as far as I can, and I have a few points to mention that perhaps more subject-oriented editors could think about. They're not major point, but if you're going for F.A status might be pertinent:
I hope my edits have improved the article. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 19:10, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
why not integrate the records into the article about the national team like in other cases?-- Severino ( talk) 16:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I honestly do not understand why the templates are being deleted from the article. They help reduce the size of the article while presenting the same information as the navboxes. Please discuss.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 15:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Sawol, are we discussing two templates or more? The 1936 Summer Olympics template is used in two articles (including this one). The merit of players is also outside the discussion, although I have to completely disagree with the assertion that individual players are not notable. Please explain how having the current two templates with sub-templates is wrong or harmful? Calling it an "aberration" does not do much to help me understand why it is wrong. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 14:51, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
User:MarshalN20, visit below
No one make the third template like Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads. So Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads is redundant and will become wrong or harmful. You should not think that Peru national football team is in the possession of you. Explain that Template:Peru FIFA World Cup Squads is not redundant. Regards. Sawol ( talk) 08:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Is it only me or is the TOC (table of contents) stretched throughout the whole page width? Parutakupiu ( talk) 23:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Per the official FIFA website (see [1]), the 1997 Copa America match between Brazil and Peru took place in Santa Cruz, Bolivia. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Why are we in American English here? This revision seems to be in UK English. When and why was it changed? -- John ( talk) 21:01, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Peru national football team needs attention, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:02, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I find both dmy and mdy date formats in the article. It should be fixed for an FA article.
HandsomeFella ( talk) 15:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)