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This area will need some work, but has the potential to become very problematic in terms of maintaining a neutral point of view. It would be interesting to see some diverse approaches discussed, ranging from Grameen Bank and microcredit solutions, to proposals such as those of Robert Shiller (The New Financial Order) and Hernando de Soto (The Mystery of Capital). These could be set against the wider backdrop of macroeconomic stresses like structural adjustment and currency crises, and struggles over ideology. It would also be good to have some discussion of the variability in producer prices, and limitations on trade policy, along with attempts to remedy those factors with initiatives like the Lome Conventions and AGOA.
I was looking for something on author Stephen Pollan. Not finding any, I went to "request article," only to see "personal finance" was not listed among the categories of "Business and Economics"!
I think the lead sentence should include a link to financial economics. I also removed this paragraph by User:Chuck Marean as it appears to be WP:OR and of little encyclopedic value [1]. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 11:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Chuck, please discuss these changes here rather than waging an edit war. In response to your recent changes:
I am reverting these changes, and ask that you don't insert them again without providing justification and making an attempt to arrive at consensus. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 23:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Much of the article seems to be written as if copied from a book or something, and seem much more about financial planning than personal finance. Particularly, the "Question of Time" subsection appears to be WP:OR, or perhaps even copied from some other text. I'm questioning its value overall. Cleanup is necessary. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 12:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I clicked the link to financial economics in the first sentence. I read the article. It's about stocks and bonds. It makes the first sentence mean that personal finance is mainly about stocks and bonds, which it is not. Personal finance has very little to do with stocks and bonds for most people. In order to buy stocks, you need and extra $5,000 to open a account at a brokerage firm. Personal finance, according to Oxford dictionary is short for personal finances. In accounting, you're supposed to keep you personal finances separate from those of you business. That in my opinion is the most comprehensive--the most encyclopedic--meaning of personal finance. Personal finance is your household financial records. If you own a business, you're supposed to keep them separate. I really don't get why anyone would think personal finance has to do with stocks and bonds. Maybe the writer of the sentence meant financial economy or thrift rather than economics. However, I think it's appropriate to point out that personal finance means a person's finances, and that those are supposed to be kept separate from the person's business records.-- Chuck Marean 02:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I found this article. I'm reading a book not journals to improve it, so am not using footnotes. My notes aren't longer, and I don't use a thesaurus, because I have other things to do. Also, what I've read on writing says just write the way you write. -- Chuck Marean 15:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Rather than just adding sections on Income, Stock Market, etc as you proceed to read your book about personal finance (as you note here [6]), I am just going to create a section on "Components of personal finance" that should cover each of the major parts. We don't need paragraphs, like this one [7], that explains how each of these works. They already have their own articles (many of which are already linked to in the See Also section) -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 11:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The article says "set goals," but that doesn't explain how to get money, etc. Since the article hasn't helped me, I'm reading a book on the subject and plan on posting my notes. If an expert worked on this article, it would probably be more informative of how to stay alive.-- Chuck Marean 16:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Budget section is needed because it's a part of Personal finance.
-- Chuck Marean 19:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with MichaelZimmer, the link to personal budget is sufficient. The current definition is clearly wrong: "A budget is a spending plan. Its first page lists income sources. Its second page lists expenditures including savings. Its third page lists what's being saved for. It's to prevent running our of money." First even in the context of personal finances a budget is not just a spending plan, its also an accounting of income. Second a budget can have more or fewer than three pages and their content varies. Its not credible to describe one specific budget and claim that all budgets are laid out that way. Finally the goal of a budget is not as simple as "to prevent running out of money". It may be to promote saving, for example. I've removed the section. Please do not replace it until you have at least a source Gwernol 21:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I've also removed the majority of the other "Components" since they are clearly original research. Gwernol 21:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm reading a book on the topic of this article, since it didn't tell me how to make money. I'll post my notes on this page too. Hopefully we'll find some answers, since I notice there are plenty of people with plenty of money.
Personal Income Personal income is the basis of personal finances and does not include borrowed money in any form. Where personal income should come from has been controversial since money was first invented. Some feel personal income should be earned; others conclude that would be impossible. As a result, modern nations are to a greater or lesser degree welfare states.
Budget A budget is a spending plan. Its first page lists income sources. Its second page lists expenditures including savings. Its third page lists what's being saved for. It's to prevent running our of money.
The Stock Market Some people budget a certain amount of their income to buy stocks with every month. Shares of stock are bought with money the investor is willing to risk losing. Corporations sell shares of stock to raise money. People buy those stocks from stock brokers. If the company is earning money, people who keep informed about the company buy its stock. If it isn't earning money, some people get worried and sell its stock before it goes out of business. This causes the price of shares to change. Other people buy because the price has gone down. They are willing to risk the money to sell if the price goes up.
Taxes Income gets taxed in the United States. The federal government taxes income and the state governments do also. Anyone with an income pays the taxes four times a year. On April 15 taxpayers file yearly income reports called tax returns also. If it turns out a taxpayer qualifies for tax deductions allowed that year, the taxpayer might get some money back. Taxpayers are sometimes audited. They have to bring their financial records to the tax office to prove they've been telling the truth. Taxpayers or their employers budget a percentage of their incomes to pay the income taxes.
I don't already know what they are, so you're not communicating here. It seems more like something you should say in a conclusion, after you've explained well what they are. Reading the words "principles of finance" without already knowing what they are is not impressive; it's just boring. -- Chuck Marean 04:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The statement "Personal finance is the application of the principles of finance" is simply without meaning. Defining the word finance by the word finance is boring. The reader should be told what the word means. Instead, it basically says "well, finance means finance." Does anywhere else in the paragraph tell me what finance means. No. There's no place in the paragraph where it say "finance is..." Also, it doesn't tell what the "principles of finance" are either. Therefore, I'm editing out the "application of the principles of finance" part of the sentence, because that part of the sentence is boring enough to quit reading the article.-- Chuck Marean 12:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I re-wrote the section on Financial Planning to avoid the second person and general cleanup for brevity & clarity, although I'm not fully comfortable with its current form. I'm also worried that it is borderline original research. If you have suggestions on how to improve it, please offer them here. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 13:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I would like to know how to finance my life. I'm using the word, finance, in the sense of "get enough income for." According to my original research, "get a job" is not the answer. I would like to know what is the answer. I think there's people who could answer, because there's plenty of people who own houses with yards. People who build apartment builds probably don't know the answer, so it would be appropriate information for an encyclopedia. It would help stop the building of the rental property that clutters our cities. -- Chuck Marean 15:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Do these really need to be here? Shouldn't they be linked to WP articles about those blogs not to the blogs themselves? Smells like spam to me... -- clpo13 04:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
This text, particularly the five numbered paragraphs, seems to copy directly from a blog. Unless we can determine that this text is allowed to be here it should be removed - forthwith. See Desicritics personal finance blog.-- Gregalton 14:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The popular tools section contains only software downloads. There are a number of free finance applications now available (mint.com, wesabe, geezeo, etc) online. Should these be added here? 05runner ( talk) 08:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, this whole article is pretty short for a fairly broad topic. Should consider expanding. -- 05runner ( talk) 08:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Added three of the more popular free online personal finance applications: Mint.com, Geezeo, and Wesabe. The later two do not have wikipedia entries created. -- 05runner ( talk) 08:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
It was what I'd hoped to find on entering the article. Does anyone know of existing resources detailing how the personal finances of individuals have varied across time and culture? -Casey M- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.29.30.11 ( talk) 18:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The 'Comparison of Accounting Software' page mixes business and personal finance pages to the detriment of both. Both areas, Accounting Software and Personal Finance Software have a lot of competitors with little clarity on their relative merits.
I would like to work on such a page, but I don't see how to start a new page.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This area will need some work, but has the potential to become very problematic in terms of maintaining a neutral point of view. It would be interesting to see some diverse approaches discussed, ranging from Grameen Bank and microcredit solutions, to proposals such as those of Robert Shiller (The New Financial Order) and Hernando de Soto (The Mystery of Capital). These could be set against the wider backdrop of macroeconomic stresses like structural adjustment and currency crises, and struggles over ideology. It would also be good to have some discussion of the variability in producer prices, and limitations on trade policy, along with attempts to remedy those factors with initiatives like the Lome Conventions and AGOA.
I was looking for something on author Stephen Pollan. Not finding any, I went to "request article," only to see "personal finance" was not listed among the categories of "Business and Economics"!
I think the lead sentence should include a link to financial economics. I also removed this paragraph by User:Chuck Marean as it appears to be WP:OR and of little encyclopedic value [1]. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 11:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Chuck, please discuss these changes here rather than waging an edit war. In response to your recent changes:
I am reverting these changes, and ask that you don't insert them again without providing justification and making an attempt to arrive at consensus. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 23:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Much of the article seems to be written as if copied from a book or something, and seem much more about financial planning than personal finance. Particularly, the "Question of Time" subsection appears to be WP:OR, or perhaps even copied from some other text. I'm questioning its value overall. Cleanup is necessary. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 12:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I clicked the link to financial economics in the first sentence. I read the article. It's about stocks and bonds. It makes the first sentence mean that personal finance is mainly about stocks and bonds, which it is not. Personal finance has very little to do with stocks and bonds for most people. In order to buy stocks, you need and extra $5,000 to open a account at a brokerage firm. Personal finance, according to Oxford dictionary is short for personal finances. In accounting, you're supposed to keep you personal finances separate from those of you business. That in my opinion is the most comprehensive--the most encyclopedic--meaning of personal finance. Personal finance is your household financial records. If you own a business, you're supposed to keep them separate. I really don't get why anyone would think personal finance has to do with stocks and bonds. Maybe the writer of the sentence meant financial economy or thrift rather than economics. However, I think it's appropriate to point out that personal finance means a person's finances, and that those are supposed to be kept separate from the person's business records.-- Chuck Marean 02:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I found this article. I'm reading a book not journals to improve it, so am not using footnotes. My notes aren't longer, and I don't use a thesaurus, because I have other things to do. Also, what I've read on writing says just write the way you write. -- Chuck Marean 15:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Rather than just adding sections on Income, Stock Market, etc as you proceed to read your book about personal finance (as you note here [6]), I am just going to create a section on "Components of personal finance" that should cover each of the major parts. We don't need paragraphs, like this one [7], that explains how each of these works. They already have their own articles (many of which are already linked to in the See Also section) -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 11:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The article says "set goals," but that doesn't explain how to get money, etc. Since the article hasn't helped me, I'm reading a book on the subject and plan on posting my notes. If an expert worked on this article, it would probably be more informative of how to stay alive.-- Chuck Marean 16:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Budget section is needed because it's a part of Personal finance.
-- Chuck Marean 19:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with MichaelZimmer, the link to personal budget is sufficient. The current definition is clearly wrong: "A budget is a spending plan. Its first page lists income sources. Its second page lists expenditures including savings. Its third page lists what's being saved for. It's to prevent running our of money." First even in the context of personal finances a budget is not just a spending plan, its also an accounting of income. Second a budget can have more or fewer than three pages and their content varies. Its not credible to describe one specific budget and claim that all budgets are laid out that way. Finally the goal of a budget is not as simple as "to prevent running out of money". It may be to promote saving, for example. I've removed the section. Please do not replace it until you have at least a source Gwernol 21:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I've also removed the majority of the other "Components" since they are clearly original research. Gwernol 21:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm reading a book on the topic of this article, since it didn't tell me how to make money. I'll post my notes on this page too. Hopefully we'll find some answers, since I notice there are plenty of people with plenty of money.
Personal Income Personal income is the basis of personal finances and does not include borrowed money in any form. Where personal income should come from has been controversial since money was first invented. Some feel personal income should be earned; others conclude that would be impossible. As a result, modern nations are to a greater or lesser degree welfare states.
Budget A budget is a spending plan. Its first page lists income sources. Its second page lists expenditures including savings. Its third page lists what's being saved for. It's to prevent running our of money.
The Stock Market Some people budget a certain amount of their income to buy stocks with every month. Shares of stock are bought with money the investor is willing to risk losing. Corporations sell shares of stock to raise money. People buy those stocks from stock brokers. If the company is earning money, people who keep informed about the company buy its stock. If it isn't earning money, some people get worried and sell its stock before it goes out of business. This causes the price of shares to change. Other people buy because the price has gone down. They are willing to risk the money to sell if the price goes up.
Taxes Income gets taxed in the United States. The federal government taxes income and the state governments do also. Anyone with an income pays the taxes four times a year. On April 15 taxpayers file yearly income reports called tax returns also. If it turns out a taxpayer qualifies for tax deductions allowed that year, the taxpayer might get some money back. Taxpayers are sometimes audited. They have to bring their financial records to the tax office to prove they've been telling the truth. Taxpayers or their employers budget a percentage of their incomes to pay the income taxes.
I don't already know what they are, so you're not communicating here. It seems more like something you should say in a conclusion, after you've explained well what they are. Reading the words "principles of finance" without already knowing what they are is not impressive; it's just boring. -- Chuck Marean 04:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The statement "Personal finance is the application of the principles of finance" is simply without meaning. Defining the word finance by the word finance is boring. The reader should be told what the word means. Instead, it basically says "well, finance means finance." Does anywhere else in the paragraph tell me what finance means. No. There's no place in the paragraph where it say "finance is..." Also, it doesn't tell what the "principles of finance" are either. Therefore, I'm editing out the "application of the principles of finance" part of the sentence, because that part of the sentence is boring enough to quit reading the article.-- Chuck Marean 12:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I re-wrote the section on Financial Planning to avoid the second person and general cleanup for brevity & clarity, although I'm not fully comfortable with its current form. I'm also worried that it is borderline original research. If you have suggestions on how to improve it, please offer them here. -- MichaelZimmer ( talk) 13:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I would like to know how to finance my life. I'm using the word, finance, in the sense of "get enough income for." According to my original research, "get a job" is not the answer. I would like to know what is the answer. I think there's people who could answer, because there's plenty of people who own houses with yards. People who build apartment builds probably don't know the answer, so it would be appropriate information for an encyclopedia. It would help stop the building of the rental property that clutters our cities. -- Chuck Marean 15:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Do these really need to be here? Shouldn't they be linked to WP articles about those blogs not to the blogs themselves? Smells like spam to me... -- clpo13 04:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
This text, particularly the five numbered paragraphs, seems to copy directly from a blog. Unless we can determine that this text is allowed to be here it should be removed - forthwith. See Desicritics personal finance blog.-- Gregalton 14:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The popular tools section contains only software downloads. There are a number of free finance applications now available (mint.com, wesabe, geezeo, etc) online. Should these be added here? 05runner ( talk) 08:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, this whole article is pretty short for a fairly broad topic. Should consider expanding. -- 05runner ( talk) 08:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Added three of the more popular free online personal finance applications: Mint.com, Geezeo, and Wesabe. The later two do not have wikipedia entries created. -- 05runner ( talk) 08:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
It was what I'd hoped to find on entering the article. Does anyone know of existing resources detailing how the personal finances of individuals have varied across time and culture? -Casey M- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.29.30.11 ( talk) 18:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The 'Comparison of Accounting Software' page mixes business and personal finance pages to the detriment of both. Both areas, Accounting Software and Personal Finance Software have a lot of competitors with little clarity on their relative merits.
I would like to work on such a page, but I don't see how to start a new page.