![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
I've neutralized "Ideals and Criticism" section quite a bit. I hope people here would be mature enough not to indulge in mercilessly reverting my edits or accuse me of indulging in Brahminism or Aryanism. Please bear in mind that despite the fact that this article has some defects, I have been assuming good faith all along expecting to solve all outstanding issues in the talk page rather than nominate this article for a WP:GAR. I do not wish to indulge in confrontation and I need your cooperation to ensure that such a situation does not arise. Thanks- Ravichandar My coffee shop 17:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I propose that a section on Periyar's activities on the 1957 Ramnad riots be created and expanded.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 04:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I am currently translating this article into French, and find out that there are no pictures of Periyar on Commons !
As I am not conversant with the origin of the different pictures and the attached rights and corresponding issues (and being rather clumsy with Commons), I will not attempt to copy some of them myself. But can't someone put at least a few free pictures of him on Commons ?
More generally speaking, all articles on Tamil people, or even culture, have more or less the same issue : no picture at all available on Commons. A pity reallly, and something which won't help develop a world-wide knowledge of Tamil culture.
Regards. -- Azurfrog ( talk) 10:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the God believer section. This doesnt belong in a biography. It is purely speculative based on a single guestbook entry from 1925, nearly 50 years before his death, during which he wrote reams and reams of atheistic rants. He himself had self contradicted himself in many places (mostly for the sake of being polite and to curry temporary favours). For example, he has remained civil and polite while speaking to brahmin association meetings, praising and not attacking them. -- Sodabottle ( talk) 09:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I know User:Wiki Raja worked hard on this article. dont remember if he thought about FAR and why not. with no shortage for references, we should be able to address all concerns. -- Car Tick 11:00, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm really confused about the exact origin of Thanthai Periyar.Most of the sources mention him as a Balija which is a Telugu speaking Merchant Community of Andhra Pradesh.But a few sources mention him as a Kannadiga.However all sources mention him as knowing both languages in addition to Tamil.In Wiki articles about EVK Sampath and EVKS Elangovan,they are mentioned as Balija Naidus(Telugu) and related to Periyar as his brother's son and grandson.Then how come Periyar became a Kannadiga? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Kindly refer to the following most authentic reference regarding the origin of Periar. Paula Richman in " Many Ramayanas" writes that Ramaswami Naicker was " BORN IN 1879 INTO A FAMILY OF BALIJA NAIDUS, A TELUGU JATI OF TRADERS AND CULTIVATORS, HE GREW UP IN ERODE , A FAIRLY IMPORTANT MERCANTILE TOWN IN THE COIMBATORE DISTRICT OF MADRAS" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.81.121 ( talk) 21:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Since the bone of contention seems to be the language Periar had spoken why not remove the word "Kannada" from Kannada Balija Naicker" in the article ? All Andhras feel that Ramaswami Naicker was cent per cent a Telugu man as he was a Balija Naidu(A Telugu caste).Kannada people want to identify Ramaswami with them as he hailed from karnataka and might relish the word 'Kannada Balija Naicker". Tamilians want to identify Periar with them as Periar was the champion of Dravida cause and lived in Tamil Nadu.Since the regional emotions are ruling the roost the best bet right now is to remove the word "Kannada" from Kannada Balija Naicker and to simply use "Balija Naicker" when reference is made about him in the article.This gives credence to the article without any bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.81.121 ( talk) 18:20, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, not that i have something to say, was jus imagining if periyar himself had read this argument. He fought almost his entire life to abolish caste and religion and this argument about the man by the same "caste priders" periyar hated. Its like fighting over the caste of Ambedkar, its completely ironic. So much could be added more to this article, and these "caste priders"... sheesh, cant imagine ppl like this exist. I appreciate the way sodabottle and others who defended the article. Lotadutt ( talk) 14:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
EVR is mentioned as a Balija Naidu(Telugu)in many articles but in most of his speeches he mentioned himself as a Kannadiga.Probably Periyar's ancestors settled for a long time in the Kannada Country and over many years they primarily spoke Kannada and only rudimentary Telugu as Kumarrao had mentioned.Thus Periyar was a Kannadiga by upbringing but a Telugu by origin.There are many Telugu Families settled for many centuries in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka who primarily speak Tamil/Kannada and only rudimentary Telugu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Vaiko and Vijayakanth are Kammava Naidus(Telugu) but have call themselves as Tamilians many times.Vaiko has even supported LTTE several times in his speeches.But they still remain of Telugu origin and speak rudimentary Telugu at home.Even former Cheif Minister J.Jayalalitha who is a Mandyam Iyengar remains a Tamilian even though her ancestors settled for many centuries in Karnataka.And Balija Naidu is a Telugu Caste.I can show many Telugus settled in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka who refer to Tamil or Kannada as their primary language but speak rudimentary Telugu at home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 13:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Recently I came across a few people who call Periyar a Kamma Naidu,some people call him a Kannada Naicker.Even people in the Tamil Nadu Naidu Sangam are confused whether he is a Telugu Naidu or a Kannada Naicker.Even some sources tell one or the other thing.The only reliable source is the man's words which state he is a Kannadiga.Since the great man hated caste and fought against it all his life,it would be better to call him a Kannadiga instead and remove Kannada Balija Nayakar from the article.
Raghavan2010 (
talk)
03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
this is one of the several well written articles... had a pretty good read. :)-- Onef9day Talk! 09:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Periyar is known as a Balija Naidu in a few circles.Few people call him a Kamma Naidu.Some articles say he is a Kannada Naicker.The great man himself was least interested in his caste and called himself as a Kannadiga in his meetings.So instead of calling him a Balija or a Kamma or a Kannada Naicker or worse still a Kannada Balija Naidu,why not simply call him a Kannadiga instead and remove Kannada Balija Nayakar from the article till we get a proper source confirming whether he is a Telugu or has Telugu ancestry or neither.In any case Thanthai Periyar fought against Caste all his life.So I feel nothing wrong in simply calling him a Kannadiga and deleting all references to his caste in this article.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I understand that Wiki needs reliable sources,no doubting that.But in this case we have different sources with different authors saying different things.Some say Periyar belongs to Telugu Naidu community,some say he is a Kannada Naicker.Even the Tamil Nadu Naidu Sangam is divided over whether he is a Telugu Naidu or a Kannada Naicker.The great man called himself a Kannadiga and that would just be the only reliable source.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Sodabottle,I'm not discounting that Periyar may have been a Balija but since a few sources say Kannada Naicker,Kamma etc,it would be wise to call him a Kannadiga instead.I'm not a Telugu POV pusher and never said that Periyar never spoke Kannada.Just that I saw Balija in a few articles,I had to open the debate of Telugu ancestry.But on seeing sources containing Kannada Naicker,Kamma etc I feel that we would be better off calling him a Kannadiga instead and not mention his caste.If the DK says Kannada Balija its ok to post it here as there are many communities in Karnataka having Balija name who are not related to Balijas at all like Idiga Balija,Surya Balija etc.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 04:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I've already said its ok to post Kannada Balija/Naicker/Naidu here if DK sources say it.Further I've said that there are communities having Balija suffix in Karnataka who are not part of the Telugu Balija Community.So we can rest this issue here.
04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
(I typed this before i saw your reply in case other people have doubts regarding this. I compiled a list of sources)
I would like to add a line here.Balija Naidu caste are from Andhra but Balija also means Merchant.It is a South Indian derivation of the Sanskrit term Vanijya,a curropt form of Vaisya.Vanijya became Balija in South India and Baniya in North India.Those Telugu Warrior groups who came into Trade became Balija Nayaks literally meaning Warrior Merchants.Nayak is a honorary title meaning commander.Over time many Non-Telugu trading communities started calling themselves Balijas and got the Nayak title through employment in the Vijayanagara Army though Telugu Nayaks were a majority there.So,Periyar would have belonged to one of these minority non-Telugu trader communities who called themselves Balija literally meaning trader.The Nayak title is a legacy of Vijayanagara Empire.If Telugu POV pushers are not satisfied with the proofs Sodabottle has given,they can take a look at this.Any trivial edits will be removed.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:51, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
this article seems to be a target of a wide-range of POV pushers, from pro-Telugu, pro-Kannada, pro-Tamil to anti-Tamil. permanent semi-protection can be of help. -- Car Tick 17:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Please give semi-protection to the article.I observed some trivial edits today and removed them now. Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I guess I'm the only editor active right now.So far no acts of vandalism.We can look at improving the artcile by adding some more sources and information.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 04:43, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I recently saw "Marakka Mudiyuma" programme on Kalaignar TV.Tamil Legend NS Krishnan's grandson describes him as a Periyar follower.Also I happened to see an interview of Rajinikanth where he describes Periyar as a real spiritualist on the web but unfortunately the link is blacklisted by Wiki.How do I add a suitable reference now?
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 10:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the link.I've some difficulty in adding it.Can anyone please help with regard to this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 13:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
What about Kaviyarasu Kannadasan?I heard he was a good friend of EVK Sampath who was the nephew of Periyar.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 14:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Here are some issues of concern which need to be addressed:
1) The article is titled "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Naicker" but then, was he not more popularly known as "Periyar" than "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Naicker". I suggest that the article be moved to Periyar (politician). Also, the Tamil transliteration should be for "E. V. Ramasamy Naicker" than "Periyar". And though Periyar was a Balija Naidu of Kannadiga descent, since he was born and brought up in Erode district and spent almost his entire life in Tamil Nadu, I don't think a Kannada transliteration would be necessary. If at all, we had to provide transliterations based on ethnic origins, then people like Vijayakanth and Vaiko should have their names in Telugu script also. This is, obviously, ridicuous.
2) I also find that the article speaks little of his public life between 1947 and the early 1970s. I request people to add more info on the period.
3) This article, definitely, has some NPOV issues as the main editor who expanded the article and nominated it for a GA appears to have ignored published criticisms of Periyar. I request fellow Wikipedians who have been monitoring this article to work on this. I also request them to keep an eye on this article as it has been the target of severe pro- and anti-Periyar POV-pushers who have been fighting out a battle here.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 02:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
(switched bullets to hard coded numbers for easier discussion, I hope you dont mind, if you do please revert) Active Banana ( talk) 03:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In Jayalalitha article,you can find Tamil script though she is a Tamil Brahmin whose family was domiciled in Karnataka for many centuries since the Chola period.So I see nothing wrong in having Kannada script here as Periyar's family were Kannada Merchants domiciled for many years in Tamil Nadu since their migration from Kannada speaking areas in Vijayanagar period or later.2 & 3 definetely need some research and good sources.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I've added EV Ramasamy Naicker in both Tamil and Kannada scripts.That partly takes care of concern no.1. Raghavan2010 ( talk) 07:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Though initially against removing the Kannada script since EVR was a Kannada speaking Balija of Telugu Ancestry who migrated from Vijayanagar and the fact that the Jayalalitha article has script in ethnic language,I finally removed it after some thinking since Ravichander felt otherwise and other editors had no issues with the same.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 01:58, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
2 & 3 have also been addressed somewhat with Veeramani fluff removed from Later Years and Controversies section expanded a bit.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Without getting into Nayakkar/Naidu technical details - in 1929, when he dropped the name, it was certainly used as a caste surname. His speech in the conference, announcing the dropping makes this clear - he was asking others to drop caste based surnames and says he will drop "naicker" to set an example. If we reword to say it was not a caste surname, then the question arises why he dropped it at all. In short, when he dropped it was used a caste name and thus should be referred to as such. The explanation/etymology is not in purview of this article (the Naicker/Naidu article is the place for it)-- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Well,Ok then.If you feel its not required here we can remove it.No issues about that.:)
Raghavan 14:27, 28 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
In my footnote however I mentioned that Naicker is a legacy of Vijayanagara Empire and inherited by the descendants of the commanders of the Vijayanagara Army.So that could be restored.No compulsion though.:)
Raghavan 14:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
I guess a Wiki Link to Nayak would be enough.Actually certain vandals want to make Naicker a caste name.Had a hell of time removing plenty of nonsense from the Nayak and Naidu articles recently.
Raghavan( Talk) 15:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Though its a well-known fact that EVR was a Balija Naidu whose ancestors migrated during the Vijayanagara Period from Kannada speaking areas adopting Kannada as a mother tongue in the process,I still am not able to figure out how they were followers of Vaishavism and not Saivism.Generally speaking,Balija Naidus domiciled in Karnataka are Saivas and identify with the Lingayat(Veerasaiva) Community who are the single largest community in Karnataka at present.
Raghavan( Talk) 13:58, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the info.Since I'm a Tamil domiciled in Karnataka(Living here since birth) and know somewhat about the major castes here I had this doubt lingering for sometime.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
We have an IP editor contesting the removal of the Kannada script now. And accusing other editors of POV. (Funny how editors who won't lift a finger to improve articles get offended at people who actually edit stuff). Any more reversions would mean an edit war again. Let us discuss and try to establish a consensus here. My opinion is neutral. I normally consider adding a native script for transliteration purposes. But i checked other articles and it seems there is a rough consensus for native tongue script adding. -- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:53, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Sodabottle,Actually there was a opinion by Ravichander,one of the senior editors who had developed the article.He has listed it out here in the talk page under Concerns.According to him,even though EVR was a Balija Naidu who spoke Kannada at home there is no need for a native script since many others who had settled in the Tamil Country for ages have no native script in their articles.I initially thought of retaining the Kannada script giving reference to Jayalalitha article,but since this is a GA and a senior editor like you had no issues with removing the Kannada Script,I removed it.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
The fact is that EVR is of Telugu Origin,spoke Kannada at home and considered himself a Tamilian having lived in Erode for centuries.There are several speeches where he spoke regarding this which have been added to the article giving all 3 connections.According to Ravichander,a Kannada script was not necessary to prove he is a Kannada speaker.He gave a valid point:If Wiki gives scripts based on ethnic origin we would have this issue with many articles.However,I removed it when other senior editors said they had no issues.Some troll is unnecessarily vandalizing the article just to prove his point that EVR is a Kannadiga.I've seen similar vandalism in Madurai and Tanjavur Nayak pages where a few IP editors have made the he discussion pages as nonsense by repeating posting caste claims when experienced editors had asked for reliable sources for the same.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:16, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Now we have a senior editor asking for semi-protection.Lets form a consensus for this with other editors.I'm even thinking of alerting Active Banana on this.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:39, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
76.212.15.82 is going on with a futile argument to justify his POV pushing.Senior Editors who developed this article and made it a GA have already said that though EVR is of Telugu origin and spoke Kannada at home,native scripts are not necessary since tomorrow an issue may arise for giving native scripts for other people who have been living for many centuries in TN.None of us are saying that EVR is not a Kannadiga.However we can't provide native scripts due to concerns made by a few senior editors.Please try to understand.
Raghavan( Talk) 01:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
EVR is a Telugu and Kannadiga in equal measure who identified himself with the Tamil Diaspora having settled in the Tamil Country for many years.No disputing this fact.We have added a lot of facts showing all 3 connections like some his speeches saying:I'm a Kannadiga from the Balija Naidu caste.While most of my people won't consider themselves as Tamils,I'm open to calling myself one etc.However,adding scripts for linguistic reasons is not allowed for the reasons I mentioned above.
Raghavan( Talk) 02:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Cartick,That was a nice point by you.Had a great laugh.:D
Raghavan( Talk) 02:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Where Does Wikipedia says that GA articles cannot have appropriate multi-language scripts. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 07:16, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The name in Kannada need to be retained as per original developers of this article since it is based on a strong RS from reputed organization DMK. Removal will be reported to ANI as vandalism. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 07:16, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Vandalism of removing original Kannada script should stop as per Wikipedia norms. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 17:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
You claim to be a Telugu and want all languages EVR is associated with to be given in transliteration based on Reliable Sources.Then what stopped you from posting his name in Telugu?There are Reliable Sources which show that though he spoke Kannada at home,he belonged to Balija Naidu caste,a Telugu group.Even his biography and speeches say the same.Why this sudden affection only towards Kannada then?
Raghavan( Talk) 04:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
The article already has a RS (23) that states "He has declared himself as a Kannadiga in many of his meetings. An excerpt from one of his meetings: "Many people say I am not a Tamilian myself. They are saying this because my mother tongue is Kannada. Many think that I am a Telugu Nayudu.The truth is that I am a Kannadiga from the Balija Nayudu caste. 'Periyar E.V.R's speeches, Dravidar Kazhakam publication, 1990, Chennai' [3]". The Kannada script need to be re-added. Appagaru ( talk) 15:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
You missed the broader picture of that speech.Though he called himself a Kannadiga there,he also said that he belonged to a Telugu caste and some people were not willing to see him as a Tamilian purely coz of his origin though he considered himself one.We added it as a reference to show all 3 connections and prove Telugu POV pushers that while he did belong to a Telugu caste,he himself had explicitly said his primary mother tongue was Kannada among all the 3 connections.
Raghavan( Talk) 16:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Appagaru,Balija Naidu is identified as a Telugu group.It would be better if you check the Balija article instead of discussing about that here.
Raghavan( Talk) 10:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
However,I do not dispute your case that some castes in South India are spread over different languages.I'm a Tamil from Bangalore and seen many such examples like Telugu Iyengars,Kannada Niyogis,Sankethi Iyers,Tamil Reddiars,Marathi Arya Vysyas etc who have adopted a different mother tongue from what their caste normally speak.
Raghavan( Talk) 10:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I've just asked Wiki Raja to address this area of concern.Waiting for his response.In the meantime,if anyone has any small bits of information regarding EVR's activities between 1949 to 1973,notably his association with the then Chief Minister Kamarajar they can post them here.- Raghavan( Talk) 12:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I have rewritten the section to read his views on thirukkural are just that - his views alone. An editor has been adding citation needed tags, but the entire section is sourced to veeramani's book. There is no need to balance out his views with counter claims. It is enough to say he believed X about Y. The balancing/countering has to be done if his views are presented in Thirukkural/Thiruvalluvar article, not here. This is just a biography.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:13, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Very recent scientific genetic study of diversity of Indian lineage, reported in one of the top scientific journal of the world "Nature", the excerpt says "One ancestral lineage — which is genetically similar to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations — was higher in upper-caste individuals and speakers of Indo-European languages such as Hindi, the researchers found. The other lineage was not close to any group outside the subcontinent, and was most common in people indigenous to the Andaman Islands...." web reference: http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090922/full/news.2009.935.html This scientific study indeed strongly support Periyar's view of casteism which is essentially linked to the arrival of Aryan group and such social system was introduced to overpower the well established Dravidian settlement in the Indian subcontinent. 14.139.128.15 ( talk) 09:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Not Done. This is not the article to go into any depth about Aryan/Dravidian racial theories and any interpretation of one specific study as a valdiation of periyar's views on race will be the start of an edit war of people quoting other studies and interpreting them as debunking of periyar's views. Periyar had a wide range of views on subjects, this is not the place to prove and disprove the views. This is merely the place to state all of them.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 10:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I've added information on Periyar's spat with B.Munuswamy Naidu using references from The Justice Party page.Plus I've also categorized controversies.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 10:20, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Since apparently it was not a spat between 2 men but rather a faction fight in the Justice Party with Periyar just an observer who supported the anti-brahmin faction,I have reworded the section a bit and changed the heading.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 01:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Many publications from DK party did denounce principles of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Though I dont have citation at hand, it should not be hard to find.
173.3.39.251 ( talk) 02:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Periyar was a Balija Naidu of Telugu origin whose forefathers migrated from Vijayanagar empire. Over many years of domicile the Naidus/Naickars spoke either Tamil or Kannada but rudimentary Telugu at home. Kumarrao ( talk) 06:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
This kurma rao and in other names he made total wiki pedia as balijapedia. I dont know why people of wikiaccepting his claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.156.166 ( talk) 07:17, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Ramaswami Naicker is a Balija Naidu, which says that he is of Telugu origin as Balija Naidu caste is 100 % Telugu caste. Ramaswami Naiker and his family living in Karnataka or moving into Tamil Nadu state doesn't make them Kannada Balija Naickers or Tamil Balija Naickers respectively.They are still Balija Naickers and Telugu remains their mother tongue no matter where they live.In the same token the great engineer Mokshagundam Visveswaraiah that migrated from Andhra to Karnataka can not be made a Kannada speaking Brahmin and his mother tongue still remains Telugu. Being Telugu man he made all Telugus proud with his contributions to Karnataka.MGR of Malayali ancestry did not become Srilanka Nair or Tamil speaking Nair eventhough he lived in Srilanka and Tamil Nadu respectively.Super star Rajanikanth did not become Kannada speaking Gaekwad or Tamil speaking Gaekwad eventhough he lived in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu respectively and his mother tongue remained Marathi. Then how come Periar, a Balija Naidu(Naicker) of Telugu origin became Kannada speaking Balija Naicker one wonders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.35.157 ( talk) 02:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to remove or reword the sentence "Despite Periyar's views on Anti-Brahminism,several Brahmins today,notably Actor Kamal Hassan[93] are Periyar followers.", as it does not cite any sources showing many brahmins are following EVR, and actor Kamal Hassan (who is anti-brahmin, though born to brahmin parents) may be an exception. 216.239.45.4 ( talk) 00:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Done --
CarTick (
talk)
00:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The second sentence of the fourth (last) paragraph reads "In stone inscriptions frpm 400 or 500 years ago". That word should obviously be "from".
The first sentence is frankly unintelligible to me, and obviously needs repair, but I don't have a specific correction in mind. 71.41.210.146 ( talk) 01:30, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Attempt is being made in this article to show that periyar favored other religions. Dubious sources with link to evangelistic and fundamental organizations have been used to justify this.
Please edit the article which shows favor to any religion.
Periyar was very clear when he said "Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to be Tamizhians." He did not consider those religious followers as Tamils.
In his weekly, he condemned both Christianity and Islam. He did not devote that much to condemning those religions as their followers were few. Periyar is hard core atheist and he did not have any sympathy to any organized religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for answering my question.
But why should Periyar's views on Islam and Christianity be in Controversies section? On more than one occasion, Periyar has critized organized religions including Islam and Christianity. Is'nt Periyar's statement " Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to Tamizhians" correct place the "Religion and Atheism section?
Below two statements which are the author's own conclusion portray Periyar as favoring Christianity and Islam.
Periyar viewed Christianity similar to the monotheistic faith of Islam. He explained that their faith says that there can be only one God which has no name or shape. Periyar took an interest in Rev. Martin Luther, where both he and his followers wanted to liken him and his role to that of the European reformer. Thus, Christian views such as that of Ram Mohan Roy's The Precepts of Jesus has had at least an indirect influence on Periyar.
Anita Diehl.(1977) "Personal View of the author" According to him, the first duty of a government is to run the social organisation efficiently, and that the philosophy of religion was to organise the social system. Periyar pointed out that while Christian and Islamic religions were fulfilling this role, the Hindu religion remained totally unsuitable for social progress.
Saraswathi. Towards Self-Respect
Just like Periyar's role as Dharmakartha of Hindu temples and Periyar's not cooking non-vegeteraian food for over a month for accomodating Marimalai Adigalar cannot be construed as his consideration for Hindu religion, the above two statements which are author's self views should removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 05:30, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for answering my question.
But why should Periyar's views on Islam and Christianity be in Controversies section? On more than one occasion, Periyar has critized organized religions including Islam and Christianity. Is'nt Periyar's statement " Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to Tamizhians" correct place the "Religion and Atheism section?
Below two statements which are the author's own conclusion portray Periyar as favoring Christianity and Islam.
Periyar viewed Christianity similar to the monotheistic faith of Islam. He explained that their faith says that there can be only one God which has no name or shape. Periyar took an interest in Rev. Martin Luther, where both he and his followers wanted to liken him and his role to that of the European reformer. Thus, Christian views such as that of Ram Mohan Roy's The Precepts of Jesus has had at least an indirect influence on Periyar.
Anita Diehl.(1977) "Personal View of the author" According to him, the first duty of a government is to run the social organisation efficiently, and that the philosophy of religion was to organise the social system. Periyar pointed out that while Christian and Islamic religions were fulfilling this role, the Hindu religion remained totally unsuitable for social progress.
Saraswathi. Towards Self-Respect
Just like Periyar's role as Dharmakartha of Hindu temples and Periyar's not cooking non-vegeteraian food for over a month for accomodating Marimalai Adigalar cannot be construed as his consideration for Hindu religion, the above two statements which are author's self views should removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 16:29, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Periyar with Jinnah and Ambedkar.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 18 November 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can you please add this to further reading section. This is peer reviewed paper.
Tkarthi03 ( talk) 04:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Under the section "Comments on Brahmins,Dalits and Religious Minorities" a single quote is misused and misinterpreted to falsely state that Periyar was anti-Muslim and anti-Dalit. Periyar campaigned against Hinduism and defended religious minorities such as Muslims against Hindu fanaticism. Hence it is false to misinterpret a single quote to state a lie in order to defame Periyar as anti-Muslim. Periyar was never anti-Muslim and in fact he was the opposite, he defended Muslims against Hindu fanatics. Similarly, Periyar was never anti-Christian. Periyar preached atheism and sought the destruction of Hinduism because of the Hindu caste system, but he never preached against Islam or Christianity. There are thousands of quotes of Periyar in Tamil language in which he has defended Muslims, and also praised Christians, but these quotes cannot be cited in English. Similarly, Periyar fought against the entirety of the caste system and fought for the liberation of all oppressed by the caste system including Dalits, hence it is false to insinuate that Periyar was anti-Dalit. Periyar was never anti-Dalit, he campaigned for the eradication of caste and liberation of Dalits. There are several statements in this wikipage that falsely states Periyar was against Muslims and Christians, and this is fundamentally false. Periyar's primary goal was not against Islam or Christianity but destruction of Hinduism. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Killivalavan (
talk •
contribs)
17:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
The personality cult of this article has been taken to sickening lengths. Periyar is the name given by his admirers; his name always remaihed E.V.Ramasamy Naicker. Also he was not born as 'Periyar' or joined the Congress Party as 'Periyar' in 1919. Wikipedia is not a platform for a personality cult. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.39.206.138 ( talk) 22:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC) The statement that Periyar belonged to Balija naidu caste is factually wrong. His mother tongue is Tamil and he has quoted this in several of his speeches. His community is also listed as Tamilar in the Backward class list of Tamil Nadu Government. Niranjas ( talk) 18:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kindly add the following passage that corrects the false statements under the section titled “Comments on Brahmins, Dalits and Religious Minorities” in the Wikipedia page of “Periyar E.V.Ramasamy”. I am submitting the following passage of correction to correct the false statements in the aforementioned Wikipedia page that falsely alleges that Periyar was anti-Dalit and not much of a supporter of the minorities by quoting a statement of Periyar out of the socio-political context of that statement (which seems critical of Muslims).
To claim Periyar was not supportive of religious minorities such as Muslims or that he was anti-Dalit are grossly false claims that have been made by misinterpreting and misquoting Periyar out of the socio-political context of his statements. Periyar called on Dalits to summarily convert to Islam and called on all non-Brahmin masses – including the so called Shudras (non-Brahmin intermediate and lower castes – known as “backward castes”) and Dalits to summarily reject Hinduism and embrace atheism or Islam. He also called on backward castes and Dalits to find common cause and solidarity with religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians against Hindu extremist violence. Periyar’s followers are in the fore-front of campaigning against Hindu right wing fascism that violently targets religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians, and in working for camaraderie between Muslims and the masses comprising of backward castes and Dalits. Periyar also worked, wrote and campaigned extensively for the liberation of Dalits and Dalit rights. A collection of his statements regarding his work and views for Dalit liberation and Dalit rights, including his calls for Dalits to convert to Islam and his call for his followers to express solidarity with religious minorities such as Muslims can be read from pages 113 to 334 in the pdf file that can be accessed by clicking on the following link:
http://fs.gallup.unm.edu//Periyar.pdf.
Periyar also wrote a book on the glory of Islam called “Islam ennum inmarunthu” (the sweet medicine called Islam) and used that book as a manifesto to call on Dalits to convert to Islam. Hence it is totally wrong to say that Periyar was not supportive of religious minorities such as Muslims. http://www.radianceweekly.com/168/4074/morally-bankrupt-but-materialistically-rich-the-nation-turns-62/2009-08-23/northeast-newsletter/story-detail/islam-is-the-antidotean-analysis-of-periyars-views-on-is
http://archive.worldhistoria.com/periyar-advocated-conversion-to-islam-to_topic15904_post296322.html
http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Periyar_on_Islam.html?id=nvcQAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y
Iniyan elango ( talk) 01:59, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
A section is tagged as being non-neutral. A quick scan of it does reveal a few phrases that could be a bit peacocky. It was added with this edit [6] over a year ago. This is currently ranked as being a good article, which it can't be with this tag on it. AIRcorn (talk) 12:06, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy died in 1973 now incidents in 2006 and 2013 are being added to the article. Hindu Munnani was founded in 1980 years after he died.This is not part of his biography hence removing it.After going through the biography of Rajaji and various sources found no attempt being made on the life of Rajaji this is a serious accusation can you find a clearly Reliable sourced when and where it took place.I am removing the section. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 02:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Guys, looks like this picture [7] is not Periyar's young picture. In Frontline news, Picture 9 [8] [1] says he is A.Subbarayalu Reddiar of the Justice Party, who was the first Chief Minister of Madras Presidency. Change this picture and put up the other Periyar picture. Icommoner ( talk) 23:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:04, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Periyar E. V. Ramasamy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:56, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.76.99 ( talk) 13:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Please use the ordinary name of the person , in this case, E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker ,. Stop using "Periyar" since that is the title given by worshipful followers of the man. May be in one or two places "Periyar" may be used, to show how some people held him, but referring to the person most of the time by an adulatory title Periyar is against every Wikipedia rule or even decency. It is jarring on the readers. 165.225.76.99 ( talk) 13:45, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
The Dravidian movement started in 1916 with the formation of the Justice Party and was not started by Periyar .Periyar was not even a member of the Justice Party he was Congress party member and only later joined the Justice Party and became its head only in 1937. THE Dravidian movement in Tamil Nadu can be dated to begin from December 1916 when the "Non-Brahmin Manifesto" was released. Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam 's own official website here 1916 Dr. T. M. Nair, and Velludai Vendar alias Sir. P. Theagaraya Chetty established a political party on 20.1.1916. It was named as “South Indian Liberal Federation”. In order to propagate the principles of the party, a daily named “Justice” was started. Dr. Nair was its first editor. At a later stage, the party was called as “Justice Party” after the daily. In Tamil, it was called as “Needhi Katchi.” The historical South Indian Liberal Federation, which was later called as the Justice Party, is the birth of the Dravidian movement. Also Here Further he is commonly referred as Periyar including by the Government of Tamil Nadu with many institutions like Periyar University named after him and most newspapers refer as Periyar which is more common Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Loduku Pandi has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Periyarfraud ( talk) 14:20, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is no proper proof regarding Periyar getting UNESCO award. Only his supporters say that. But his name is not found in the list of UNESCO awardees. I have given the list of UNESCO awardees till 1998 from UNESCO website below. https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000111158?fbclid=IwAR3ccSps4KjbY3tmnsHfv17yhUujZn9kJr27PFs0HRjj_QbQ_zBAJp-yHzk
Thus this detail should be changed. Jag2019 ( talk) 08:32, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Periyar is an Alternative Name given by His Follower. As Alternative name doesn't require any special space on the Article Heading, This article should only be in the Name of E. V. Ramasamy as both Alternative Names Cannot exist in the Title. Explanation for the Periyar Title was alread well mentioned within the Article. Having Alternate Name of a person among supporter along with Official Name will lead to confusion among Reads, So the Page was moved to E. V. Ramasamy Page from Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Page. Please Discuss further Before any Chance to page. Article with correct Name Reference Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NewGen.Kat ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Unfortunately someone (not belongs to his country or his community) removed the award from this page.
Award : Unesco Rumilus ( talk) 13:35, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:06, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The section on Vaikom Satyagraha is poorly structured, temporally inconsistent and repetitive. Anxrn ( talk) 14:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Nayakar has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Manikandaraj Srinivasan ( talk) 13:33, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
E. V. Ramasamy Nayakar Manikandaraj Srinivasan ( talk) 13:35, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Periyar has been centre of many controversies especially with views on Hinduism warrant a separate section, with reference to the recent controversy which incidentally has also gone right to the judiciary- [1] Amitized ( talk) 05:07, 22 January 2020 (UTC)Amitized
References
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Vaikom Satyagraha (1924–1925) the last two paragraphs are already published at the start of the section. "According to the prevalent caste system in Kerala and the rest of India, low-caste Hindus were denied entry into temples. In Kerala, they were denied permission to walk on the roads that led to the temples also. (Kerala state was formed in 1956; earlier it was broadly divided into Malabar (North Kerala), Cochin and Travancore kingdoms). In the Kakinada meet of the Congress Party in 1923, T K Madhavan presented a report citing the discrimination faced by the depressed castes in Kerala. That session decided to promote movements against untouchability.
In Kerala, a committee was formed comprising people of different castes to fight untouchability in the region. The committee chaired by K Kelappan, composed of T K Madhavan, Velayudha Menon, Kurur Neelakantan Namboodiripad and T R Krishnaswami Iyer. In February 1924, they decided to launch a ‘Keralaparyatanam’ to gain temple entry and also the right to use public roads for every Hindu irrespective of caste or creed." Wik sandeep ( talk) 06:49, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Done--
Goldsztajn (
talk)
17:49, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
I've neutralized "Ideals and Criticism" section quite a bit. I hope people here would be mature enough not to indulge in mercilessly reverting my edits or accuse me of indulging in Brahminism or Aryanism. Please bear in mind that despite the fact that this article has some defects, I have been assuming good faith all along expecting to solve all outstanding issues in the talk page rather than nominate this article for a WP:GAR. I do not wish to indulge in confrontation and I need your cooperation to ensure that such a situation does not arise. Thanks- Ravichandar My coffee shop 17:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I propose that a section on Periyar's activities on the 1957 Ramnad riots be created and expanded.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 04:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I am currently translating this article into French, and find out that there are no pictures of Periyar on Commons !
As I am not conversant with the origin of the different pictures and the attached rights and corresponding issues (and being rather clumsy with Commons), I will not attempt to copy some of them myself. But can't someone put at least a few free pictures of him on Commons ?
More generally speaking, all articles on Tamil people, or even culture, have more or less the same issue : no picture at all available on Commons. A pity reallly, and something which won't help develop a world-wide knowledge of Tamil culture.
Regards. -- Azurfrog ( talk) 10:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the God believer section. This doesnt belong in a biography. It is purely speculative based on a single guestbook entry from 1925, nearly 50 years before his death, during which he wrote reams and reams of atheistic rants. He himself had self contradicted himself in many places (mostly for the sake of being polite and to curry temporary favours). For example, he has remained civil and polite while speaking to brahmin association meetings, praising and not attacking them. -- Sodabottle ( talk) 09:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I know User:Wiki Raja worked hard on this article. dont remember if he thought about FAR and why not. with no shortage for references, we should be able to address all concerns. -- Car Tick 11:00, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm really confused about the exact origin of Thanthai Periyar.Most of the sources mention him as a Balija which is a Telugu speaking Merchant Community of Andhra Pradesh.But a few sources mention him as a Kannadiga.However all sources mention him as knowing both languages in addition to Tamil.In Wiki articles about EVK Sampath and EVKS Elangovan,they are mentioned as Balija Naidus(Telugu) and related to Periyar as his brother's son and grandson.Then how come Periyar became a Kannadiga? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Kindly refer to the following most authentic reference regarding the origin of Periar. Paula Richman in " Many Ramayanas" writes that Ramaswami Naicker was " BORN IN 1879 INTO A FAMILY OF BALIJA NAIDUS, A TELUGU JATI OF TRADERS AND CULTIVATORS, HE GREW UP IN ERODE , A FAIRLY IMPORTANT MERCANTILE TOWN IN THE COIMBATORE DISTRICT OF MADRAS" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.81.121 ( talk) 21:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Since the bone of contention seems to be the language Periar had spoken why not remove the word "Kannada" from Kannada Balija Naicker" in the article ? All Andhras feel that Ramaswami Naicker was cent per cent a Telugu man as he was a Balija Naidu(A Telugu caste).Kannada people want to identify Ramaswami with them as he hailed from karnataka and might relish the word 'Kannada Balija Naicker". Tamilians want to identify Periar with them as Periar was the champion of Dravida cause and lived in Tamil Nadu.Since the regional emotions are ruling the roost the best bet right now is to remove the word "Kannada" from Kannada Balija Naicker and to simply use "Balija Naicker" when reference is made about him in the article.This gives credence to the article without any bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.81.121 ( talk) 18:20, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, not that i have something to say, was jus imagining if periyar himself had read this argument. He fought almost his entire life to abolish caste and religion and this argument about the man by the same "caste priders" periyar hated. Its like fighting over the caste of Ambedkar, its completely ironic. So much could be added more to this article, and these "caste priders"... sheesh, cant imagine ppl like this exist. I appreciate the way sodabottle and others who defended the article. Lotadutt ( talk) 14:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
EVR is mentioned as a Balija Naidu(Telugu)in many articles but in most of his speeches he mentioned himself as a Kannadiga.Probably Periyar's ancestors settled for a long time in the Kannada Country and over many years they primarily spoke Kannada and only rudimentary Telugu as Kumarrao had mentioned.Thus Periyar was a Kannadiga by upbringing but a Telugu by origin.There are many Telugu Families settled for many centuries in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka who primarily speak Tamil/Kannada and only rudimentary Telugu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Vaiko and Vijayakanth are Kammava Naidus(Telugu) but have call themselves as Tamilians many times.Vaiko has even supported LTTE several times in his speeches.But they still remain of Telugu origin and speak rudimentary Telugu at home.Even former Cheif Minister J.Jayalalitha who is a Mandyam Iyengar remains a Tamilian even though her ancestors settled for many centuries in Karnataka.And Balija Naidu is a Telugu Caste.I can show many Telugus settled in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka who refer to Tamil or Kannada as their primary language but speak rudimentary Telugu at home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 13:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Recently I came across a few people who call Periyar a Kamma Naidu,some people call him a Kannada Naicker.Even people in the Tamil Nadu Naidu Sangam are confused whether he is a Telugu Naidu or a Kannada Naicker.Even some sources tell one or the other thing.The only reliable source is the man's words which state he is a Kannadiga.Since the great man hated caste and fought against it all his life,it would be better to call him a Kannadiga instead and remove Kannada Balija Nayakar from the article.
Raghavan2010 (
talk)
03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
this is one of the several well written articles... had a pretty good read. :)-- Onef9day Talk! 09:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Periyar is known as a Balija Naidu in a few circles.Few people call him a Kamma Naidu.Some articles say he is a Kannada Naicker.The great man himself was least interested in his caste and called himself as a Kannadiga in his meetings.So instead of calling him a Balija or a Kamma or a Kannada Naicker or worse still a Kannada Balija Naidu,why not simply call him a Kannadiga instead and remove Kannada Balija Nayakar from the article till we get a proper source confirming whether he is a Telugu or has Telugu ancestry or neither.In any case Thanthai Periyar fought against Caste all his life.So I feel nothing wrong in simply calling him a Kannadiga and deleting all references to his caste in this article.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I understand that Wiki needs reliable sources,no doubting that.But in this case we have different sources with different authors saying different things.Some say Periyar belongs to Telugu Naidu community,some say he is a Kannada Naicker.Even the Tamil Nadu Naidu Sangam is divided over whether he is a Telugu Naidu or a Kannada Naicker.The great man called himself a Kannadiga and that would just be the only reliable source.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Sodabottle,I'm not discounting that Periyar may have been a Balija but since a few sources say Kannada Naicker,Kamma etc,it would be wise to call him a Kannadiga instead.I'm not a Telugu POV pusher and never said that Periyar never spoke Kannada.Just that I saw Balija in a few articles,I had to open the debate of Telugu ancestry.But on seeing sources containing Kannada Naicker,Kamma etc I feel that we would be better off calling him a Kannadiga instead and not mention his caste.If the DK says Kannada Balija its ok to post it here as there are many communities in Karnataka having Balija name who are not related to Balijas at all like Idiga Balija,Surya Balija etc.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 04:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I've already said its ok to post Kannada Balija/Naicker/Naidu here if DK sources say it.Further I've said that there are communities having Balija suffix in Karnataka who are not part of the Telugu Balija Community.So we can rest this issue here.
04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)04:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
(I typed this before i saw your reply in case other people have doubts regarding this. I compiled a list of sources)
I would like to add a line here.Balija Naidu caste are from Andhra but Balija also means Merchant.It is a South Indian derivation of the Sanskrit term Vanijya,a curropt form of Vaisya.Vanijya became Balija in South India and Baniya in North India.Those Telugu Warrior groups who came into Trade became Balija Nayaks literally meaning Warrior Merchants.Nayak is a honorary title meaning commander.Over time many Non-Telugu trading communities started calling themselves Balijas and got the Nayak title through employment in the Vijayanagara Army though Telugu Nayaks were a majority there.So,Periyar would have belonged to one of these minority non-Telugu trader communities who called themselves Balija literally meaning trader.The Nayak title is a legacy of Vijayanagara Empire.If Telugu POV pushers are not satisfied with the proofs Sodabottle has given,they can take a look at this.Any trivial edits will be removed.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:51, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
this article seems to be a target of a wide-range of POV pushers, from pro-Telugu, pro-Kannada, pro-Tamil to anti-Tamil. permanent semi-protection can be of help. -- Car Tick 17:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Please give semi-protection to the article.I observed some trivial edits today and removed them now. Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I guess I'm the only editor active right now.So far no acts of vandalism.We can look at improving the artcile by adding some more sources and information.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 04:43, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I recently saw "Marakka Mudiyuma" programme on Kalaignar TV.Tamil Legend NS Krishnan's grandson describes him as a Periyar follower.Also I happened to see an interview of Rajinikanth where he describes Periyar as a real spiritualist on the web but unfortunately the link is blacklisted by Wiki.How do I add a suitable reference now?
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 10:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the link.I've some difficulty in adding it.Can anyone please help with regard to this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 13:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
What about Kaviyarasu Kannadasan?I heard he was a good friend of EVK Sampath who was the nephew of Periyar.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 14:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Here are some issues of concern which need to be addressed:
1) The article is titled "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Naicker" but then, was he not more popularly known as "Periyar" than "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Naicker". I suggest that the article be moved to Periyar (politician). Also, the Tamil transliteration should be for "E. V. Ramasamy Naicker" than "Periyar". And though Periyar was a Balija Naidu of Kannadiga descent, since he was born and brought up in Erode district and spent almost his entire life in Tamil Nadu, I don't think a Kannada transliteration would be necessary. If at all, we had to provide transliterations based on ethnic origins, then people like Vijayakanth and Vaiko should have their names in Telugu script also. This is, obviously, ridicuous.
2) I also find that the article speaks little of his public life between 1947 and the early 1970s. I request people to add more info on the period.
3) This article, definitely, has some NPOV issues as the main editor who expanded the article and nominated it for a GA appears to have ignored published criticisms of Periyar. I request fellow Wikipedians who have been monitoring this article to work on this. I also request them to keep an eye on this article as it has been the target of severe pro- and anti-Periyar POV-pushers who have been fighting out a battle here.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 02:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
(switched bullets to hard coded numbers for easier discussion, I hope you dont mind, if you do please revert) Active Banana ( talk) 03:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In Jayalalitha article,you can find Tamil script though she is a Tamil Brahmin whose family was domiciled in Karnataka for many centuries since the Chola period.So I see nothing wrong in having Kannada script here as Periyar's family were Kannada Merchants domiciled for many years in Tamil Nadu since their migration from Kannada speaking areas in Vijayanagar period or later.2 & 3 definetely need some research and good sources.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 03:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I've added EV Ramasamy Naicker in both Tamil and Kannada scripts.That partly takes care of concern no.1. Raghavan2010 ( talk) 07:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Though initially against removing the Kannada script since EVR was a Kannada speaking Balija of Telugu Ancestry who migrated from Vijayanagar and the fact that the Jayalalitha article has script in ethnic language,I finally removed it after some thinking since Ravichander felt otherwise and other editors had no issues with the same.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 01:58, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
2 & 3 have also been addressed somewhat with Veeramani fluff removed from Later Years and Controversies section expanded a bit.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 02:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Without getting into Nayakkar/Naidu technical details - in 1929, when he dropped the name, it was certainly used as a caste surname. His speech in the conference, announcing the dropping makes this clear - he was asking others to drop caste based surnames and says he will drop "naicker" to set an example. If we reword to say it was not a caste surname, then the question arises why he dropped it at all. In short, when he dropped it was used a caste name and thus should be referred to as such. The explanation/etymology is not in purview of this article (the Naicker/Naidu article is the place for it)-- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Well,Ok then.If you feel its not required here we can remove it.No issues about that.:)
Raghavan 14:27, 28 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
In my footnote however I mentioned that Naicker is a legacy of Vijayanagara Empire and inherited by the descendants of the commanders of the Vijayanagara Army.So that could be restored.No compulsion though.:)
Raghavan 14:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavan2010 ( talk • contribs)
I guess a Wiki Link to Nayak would be enough.Actually certain vandals want to make Naicker a caste name.Had a hell of time removing plenty of nonsense from the Nayak and Naidu articles recently.
Raghavan( Talk) 15:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Though its a well-known fact that EVR was a Balija Naidu whose ancestors migrated during the Vijayanagara Period from Kannada speaking areas adopting Kannada as a mother tongue in the process,I still am not able to figure out how they were followers of Vaishavism and not Saivism.Generally speaking,Balija Naidus domiciled in Karnataka are Saivas and identify with the Lingayat(Veerasaiva) Community who are the single largest community in Karnataka at present.
Raghavan( Talk) 13:58, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the info.Since I'm a Tamil domiciled in Karnataka(Living here since birth) and know somewhat about the major castes here I had this doubt lingering for sometime.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
We have an IP editor contesting the removal of the Kannada script now. And accusing other editors of POV. (Funny how editors who won't lift a finger to improve articles get offended at people who actually edit stuff). Any more reversions would mean an edit war again. Let us discuss and try to establish a consensus here. My opinion is neutral. I normally consider adding a native script for transliteration purposes. But i checked other articles and it seems there is a rough consensus for native tongue script adding. -- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:53, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Sodabottle,Actually there was a opinion by Ravichander,one of the senior editors who had developed the article.He has listed it out here in the talk page under Concerns.According to him,even though EVR was a Balija Naidu who spoke Kannada at home there is no need for a native script since many others who had settled in the Tamil Country for ages have no native script in their articles.I initially thought of retaining the Kannada script giving reference to Jayalalitha article,but since this is a GA and a senior editor like you had no issues with removing the Kannada Script,I removed it.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
The fact is that EVR is of Telugu Origin,spoke Kannada at home and considered himself a Tamilian having lived in Erode for centuries.There are several speeches where he spoke regarding this which have been added to the article giving all 3 connections.According to Ravichander,a Kannada script was not necessary to prove he is a Kannada speaker.He gave a valid point:If Wiki gives scripts based on ethnic origin we would have this issue with many articles.However,I removed it when other senior editors said they had no issues.Some troll is unnecessarily vandalizing the article just to prove his point that EVR is a Kannadiga.I've seen similar vandalism in Madurai and Tanjavur Nayak pages where a few IP editors have made the he discussion pages as nonsense by repeating posting caste claims when experienced editors had asked for reliable sources for the same.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:16, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Now we have a senior editor asking for semi-protection.Lets form a consensus for this with other editors.I'm even thinking of alerting Active Banana on this.
Raghavan( Talk) 14:39, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
76.212.15.82 is going on with a futile argument to justify his POV pushing.Senior Editors who developed this article and made it a GA have already said that though EVR is of Telugu origin and spoke Kannada at home,native scripts are not necessary since tomorrow an issue may arise for giving native scripts for other people who have been living for many centuries in TN.None of us are saying that EVR is not a Kannadiga.However we can't provide native scripts due to concerns made by a few senior editors.Please try to understand.
Raghavan( Talk) 01:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
EVR is a Telugu and Kannadiga in equal measure who identified himself with the Tamil Diaspora having settled in the Tamil Country for many years.No disputing this fact.We have added a lot of facts showing all 3 connections like some his speeches saying:I'm a Kannadiga from the Balija Naidu caste.While most of my people won't consider themselves as Tamils,I'm open to calling myself one etc.However,adding scripts for linguistic reasons is not allowed for the reasons I mentioned above.
Raghavan( Talk) 02:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Cartick,That was a nice point by you.Had a great laugh.:D
Raghavan( Talk) 02:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Where Does Wikipedia says that GA articles cannot have appropriate multi-language scripts. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 07:16, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The name in Kannada need to be retained as per original developers of this article since it is based on a strong RS from reputed organization DMK. Removal will be reported to ANI as vandalism. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 07:16, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Vandalism of removing original Kannada script should stop as per Wikipedia norms. 76.212.15.82 ( talk) 17:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
You claim to be a Telugu and want all languages EVR is associated with to be given in transliteration based on Reliable Sources.Then what stopped you from posting his name in Telugu?There are Reliable Sources which show that though he spoke Kannada at home,he belonged to Balija Naidu caste,a Telugu group.Even his biography and speeches say the same.Why this sudden affection only towards Kannada then?
Raghavan( Talk) 04:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
The article already has a RS (23) that states "He has declared himself as a Kannadiga in many of his meetings. An excerpt from one of his meetings: "Many people say I am not a Tamilian myself. They are saying this because my mother tongue is Kannada. Many think that I am a Telugu Nayudu.The truth is that I am a Kannadiga from the Balija Nayudu caste. 'Periyar E.V.R's speeches, Dravidar Kazhakam publication, 1990, Chennai' [3]". The Kannada script need to be re-added. Appagaru ( talk) 15:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
You missed the broader picture of that speech.Though he called himself a Kannadiga there,he also said that he belonged to a Telugu caste and some people were not willing to see him as a Tamilian purely coz of his origin though he considered himself one.We added it as a reference to show all 3 connections and prove Telugu POV pushers that while he did belong to a Telugu caste,he himself had explicitly said his primary mother tongue was Kannada among all the 3 connections.
Raghavan( Talk) 16:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Appagaru,Balija Naidu is identified as a Telugu group.It would be better if you check the Balija article instead of discussing about that here.
Raghavan( Talk) 10:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
However,I do not dispute your case that some castes in South India are spread over different languages.I'm a Tamil from Bangalore and seen many such examples like Telugu Iyengars,Kannada Niyogis,Sankethi Iyers,Tamil Reddiars,Marathi Arya Vysyas etc who have adopted a different mother tongue from what their caste normally speak.
Raghavan( Talk) 10:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I've just asked Wiki Raja to address this area of concern.Waiting for his response.In the meantime,if anyone has any small bits of information regarding EVR's activities between 1949 to 1973,notably his association with the then Chief Minister Kamarajar they can post them here.- Raghavan( Talk) 12:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I have rewritten the section to read his views on thirukkural are just that - his views alone. An editor has been adding citation needed tags, but the entire section is sourced to veeramani's book. There is no need to balance out his views with counter claims. It is enough to say he believed X about Y. The balancing/countering has to be done if his views are presented in Thirukkural/Thiruvalluvar article, not here. This is just a biography.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 13:13, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Very recent scientific genetic study of diversity of Indian lineage, reported in one of the top scientific journal of the world "Nature", the excerpt says "One ancestral lineage — which is genetically similar to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations — was higher in upper-caste individuals and speakers of Indo-European languages such as Hindi, the researchers found. The other lineage was not close to any group outside the subcontinent, and was most common in people indigenous to the Andaman Islands...." web reference: http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090922/full/news.2009.935.html This scientific study indeed strongly support Periyar's view of casteism which is essentially linked to the arrival of Aryan group and such social system was introduced to overpower the well established Dravidian settlement in the Indian subcontinent. 14.139.128.15 ( talk) 09:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Not Done. This is not the article to go into any depth about Aryan/Dravidian racial theories and any interpretation of one specific study as a valdiation of periyar's views on race will be the start of an edit war of people quoting other studies and interpreting them as debunking of periyar's views. Periyar had a wide range of views on subjects, this is not the place to prove and disprove the views. This is merely the place to state all of them.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 10:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I've added information on Periyar's spat with B.Munuswamy Naidu using references from The Justice Party page.Plus I've also categorized controversies.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 10:20, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Since apparently it was not a spat between 2 men but rather a faction fight in the Justice Party with Periyar just an observer who supported the anti-brahmin faction,I have reworded the section a bit and changed the heading.
Raghavan2010 ( talk) 01:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Many publications from DK party did denounce principles of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Though I dont have citation at hand, it should not be hard to find.
173.3.39.251 ( talk) 02:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Periyar was a Balija Naidu of Telugu origin whose forefathers migrated from Vijayanagar empire. Over many years of domicile the Naidus/Naickars spoke either Tamil or Kannada but rudimentary Telugu at home. Kumarrao ( talk) 06:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
This kurma rao and in other names he made total wiki pedia as balijapedia. I dont know why people of wikiaccepting his claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.156.166 ( talk) 07:17, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Ramaswami Naicker is a Balija Naidu, which says that he is of Telugu origin as Balija Naidu caste is 100 % Telugu caste. Ramaswami Naiker and his family living in Karnataka or moving into Tamil Nadu state doesn't make them Kannada Balija Naickers or Tamil Balija Naickers respectively.They are still Balija Naickers and Telugu remains their mother tongue no matter where they live.In the same token the great engineer Mokshagundam Visveswaraiah that migrated from Andhra to Karnataka can not be made a Kannada speaking Brahmin and his mother tongue still remains Telugu. Being Telugu man he made all Telugus proud with his contributions to Karnataka.MGR of Malayali ancestry did not become Srilanka Nair or Tamil speaking Nair eventhough he lived in Srilanka and Tamil Nadu respectively.Super star Rajanikanth did not become Kannada speaking Gaekwad or Tamil speaking Gaekwad eventhough he lived in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu respectively and his mother tongue remained Marathi. Then how come Periar, a Balija Naidu(Naicker) of Telugu origin became Kannada speaking Balija Naicker one wonders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.35.157 ( talk) 02:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to remove or reword the sentence "Despite Periyar's views on Anti-Brahminism,several Brahmins today,notably Actor Kamal Hassan[93] are Periyar followers.", as it does not cite any sources showing many brahmins are following EVR, and actor Kamal Hassan (who is anti-brahmin, though born to brahmin parents) may be an exception. 216.239.45.4 ( talk) 00:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Done --
CarTick (
talk)
00:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The second sentence of the fourth (last) paragraph reads "In stone inscriptions frpm 400 or 500 years ago". That word should obviously be "from".
The first sentence is frankly unintelligible to me, and obviously needs repair, but I don't have a specific correction in mind. 71.41.210.146 ( talk) 01:30, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Attempt is being made in this article to show that periyar favored other religions. Dubious sources with link to evangelistic and fundamental organizations have been used to justify this.
Please edit the article which shows favor to any religion.
Periyar was very clear when he said "Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to be Tamizhians." He did not consider those religious followers as Tamils.
In his weekly, he condemned both Christianity and Islam. He did not devote that much to condemning those religions as their followers were few. Periyar is hard core atheist and he did not have any sympathy to any organized religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 04:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for answering my question.
But why should Periyar's views on Islam and Christianity be in Controversies section? On more than one occasion, Periyar has critized organized religions including Islam and Christianity. Is'nt Periyar's statement " Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to Tamizhians" correct place the "Religion and Atheism section?
Below two statements which are the author's own conclusion portray Periyar as favoring Christianity and Islam.
Periyar viewed Christianity similar to the monotheistic faith of Islam. He explained that their faith says that there can be only one God which has no name or shape. Periyar took an interest in Rev. Martin Luther, where both he and his followers wanted to liken him and his role to that of the European reformer. Thus, Christian views such as that of Ram Mohan Roy's The Precepts of Jesus has had at least an indirect influence on Periyar.
Anita Diehl.(1977) "Personal View of the author" According to him, the first duty of a government is to run the social organisation efficiently, and that the philosophy of religion was to organise the social system. Periyar pointed out that while Christian and Islamic religions were fulfilling this role, the Hindu religion remained totally unsuitable for social progress.
Saraswathi. Towards Self-Respect
Just like Periyar's role as Dharmakartha of Hindu temples and Periyar's not cooking non-vegeteraian food for over a month for accomodating Marimalai Adigalar cannot be construed as his consideration for Hindu religion, the above two statements which are author's self views should removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 05:30, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for answering my question.
But why should Periyar's views on Islam and Christianity be in Controversies section? On more than one occasion, Periyar has critized organized religions including Islam and Christianity. Is'nt Periyar's statement " Bane of Tamizhians is Brahmins, Muslims and Christians consider themselves to Tamizhians" correct place the "Religion and Atheism section?
Below two statements which are the author's own conclusion portray Periyar as favoring Christianity and Islam.
Periyar viewed Christianity similar to the monotheistic faith of Islam. He explained that their faith says that there can be only one God which has no name or shape. Periyar took an interest in Rev. Martin Luther, where both he and his followers wanted to liken him and his role to that of the European reformer. Thus, Christian views such as that of Ram Mohan Roy's The Precepts of Jesus has had at least an indirect influence on Periyar.
Anita Diehl.(1977) "Personal View of the author" According to him, the first duty of a government is to run the social organisation efficiently, and that the philosophy of religion was to organise the social system. Periyar pointed out that while Christian and Islamic religions were fulfilling this role, the Hindu religion remained totally unsuitable for social progress.
Saraswathi. Towards Self-Respect
Just like Periyar's role as Dharmakartha of Hindu temples and Periyar's not cooking non-vegeteraian food for over a month for accomodating Marimalai Adigalar cannot be construed as his consideration for Hindu religion, the above two statements which are author's self views should removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truetamilan1 ( talk • contribs) 16:29, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Periyar with Jinnah and Ambedkar.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 18 November 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can you please add this to further reading section. This is peer reviewed paper.
Tkarthi03 ( talk) 04:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Under the section "Comments on Brahmins,Dalits and Religious Minorities" a single quote is misused and misinterpreted to falsely state that Periyar was anti-Muslim and anti-Dalit. Periyar campaigned against Hinduism and defended religious minorities such as Muslims against Hindu fanaticism. Hence it is false to misinterpret a single quote to state a lie in order to defame Periyar as anti-Muslim. Periyar was never anti-Muslim and in fact he was the opposite, he defended Muslims against Hindu fanatics. Similarly, Periyar was never anti-Christian. Periyar preached atheism and sought the destruction of Hinduism because of the Hindu caste system, but he never preached against Islam or Christianity. There are thousands of quotes of Periyar in Tamil language in which he has defended Muslims, and also praised Christians, but these quotes cannot be cited in English. Similarly, Periyar fought against the entirety of the caste system and fought for the liberation of all oppressed by the caste system including Dalits, hence it is false to insinuate that Periyar was anti-Dalit. Periyar was never anti-Dalit, he campaigned for the eradication of caste and liberation of Dalits. There are several statements in this wikipage that falsely states Periyar was against Muslims and Christians, and this is fundamentally false. Periyar's primary goal was not against Islam or Christianity but destruction of Hinduism. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Killivalavan (
talk •
contribs)
17:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
The personality cult of this article has been taken to sickening lengths. Periyar is the name given by his admirers; his name always remaihed E.V.Ramasamy Naicker. Also he was not born as 'Periyar' or joined the Congress Party as 'Periyar' in 1919. Wikipedia is not a platform for a personality cult. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.39.206.138 ( talk) 22:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC) The statement that Periyar belonged to Balija naidu caste is factually wrong. His mother tongue is Tamil and he has quoted this in several of his speeches. His community is also listed as Tamilar in the Backward class list of Tamil Nadu Government. Niranjas ( talk) 18:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kindly add the following passage that corrects the false statements under the section titled “Comments on Brahmins, Dalits and Religious Minorities” in the Wikipedia page of “Periyar E.V.Ramasamy”. I am submitting the following passage of correction to correct the false statements in the aforementioned Wikipedia page that falsely alleges that Periyar was anti-Dalit and not much of a supporter of the minorities by quoting a statement of Periyar out of the socio-political context of that statement (which seems critical of Muslims).
To claim Periyar was not supportive of religious minorities such as Muslims or that he was anti-Dalit are grossly false claims that have been made by misinterpreting and misquoting Periyar out of the socio-political context of his statements. Periyar called on Dalits to summarily convert to Islam and called on all non-Brahmin masses – including the so called Shudras (non-Brahmin intermediate and lower castes – known as “backward castes”) and Dalits to summarily reject Hinduism and embrace atheism or Islam. He also called on backward castes and Dalits to find common cause and solidarity with religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians against Hindu extremist violence. Periyar’s followers are in the fore-front of campaigning against Hindu right wing fascism that violently targets religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians, and in working for camaraderie between Muslims and the masses comprising of backward castes and Dalits. Periyar also worked, wrote and campaigned extensively for the liberation of Dalits and Dalit rights. A collection of his statements regarding his work and views for Dalit liberation and Dalit rights, including his calls for Dalits to convert to Islam and his call for his followers to express solidarity with religious minorities such as Muslims can be read from pages 113 to 334 in the pdf file that can be accessed by clicking on the following link:
http://fs.gallup.unm.edu//Periyar.pdf.
Periyar also wrote a book on the glory of Islam called “Islam ennum inmarunthu” (the sweet medicine called Islam) and used that book as a manifesto to call on Dalits to convert to Islam. Hence it is totally wrong to say that Periyar was not supportive of religious minorities such as Muslims. http://www.radianceweekly.com/168/4074/morally-bankrupt-but-materialistically-rich-the-nation-turns-62/2009-08-23/northeast-newsletter/story-detail/islam-is-the-antidotean-analysis-of-periyars-views-on-is
http://archive.worldhistoria.com/periyar-advocated-conversion-to-islam-to_topic15904_post296322.html
http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Periyar_on_Islam.html?id=nvcQAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y
Iniyan elango ( talk) 01:59, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
A section is tagged as being non-neutral. A quick scan of it does reveal a few phrases that could be a bit peacocky. It was added with this edit [6] over a year ago. This is currently ranked as being a good article, which it can't be with this tag on it. AIRcorn (talk) 12:06, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy died in 1973 now incidents in 2006 and 2013 are being added to the article. Hindu Munnani was founded in 1980 years after he died.This is not part of his biography hence removing it.After going through the biography of Rajaji and various sources found no attempt being made on the life of Rajaji this is a serious accusation can you find a clearly Reliable sourced when and where it took place.I am removing the section. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 02:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Guys, looks like this picture [7] is not Periyar's young picture. In Frontline news, Picture 9 [8] [1] says he is A.Subbarayalu Reddiar of the Justice Party, who was the first Chief Minister of Madras Presidency. Change this picture and put up the other Periyar picture. Icommoner ( talk) 23:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:04, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Periyar E. V. Ramasamy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:56, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.76.99 ( talk) 13:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Please use the ordinary name of the person , in this case, E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker ,. Stop using "Periyar" since that is the title given by worshipful followers of the man. May be in one or two places "Periyar" may be used, to show how some people held him, but referring to the person most of the time by an adulatory title Periyar is against every Wikipedia rule or even decency. It is jarring on the readers. 165.225.76.99 ( talk) 13:45, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
The Dravidian movement started in 1916 with the formation of the Justice Party and was not started by Periyar .Periyar was not even a member of the Justice Party he was Congress party member and only later joined the Justice Party and became its head only in 1937. THE Dravidian movement in Tamil Nadu can be dated to begin from December 1916 when the "Non-Brahmin Manifesto" was released. Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam 's own official website here 1916 Dr. T. M. Nair, and Velludai Vendar alias Sir. P. Theagaraya Chetty established a political party on 20.1.1916. It was named as “South Indian Liberal Federation”. In order to propagate the principles of the party, a daily named “Justice” was started. Dr. Nair was its first editor. At a later stage, the party was called as “Justice Party” after the daily. In Tamil, it was called as “Needhi Katchi.” The historical South Indian Liberal Federation, which was later called as the Justice Party, is the birth of the Dravidian movement. Also Here Further he is commonly referred as Periyar including by the Government of Tamil Nadu with many institutions like Periyar University named after him and most newspapers refer as Periyar which is more common Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Loduku Pandi has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Periyarfraud ( talk) 14:20, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is no proper proof regarding Periyar getting UNESCO award. Only his supporters say that. But his name is not found in the list of UNESCO awardees. I have given the list of UNESCO awardees till 1998 from UNESCO website below. https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000111158?fbclid=IwAR3ccSps4KjbY3tmnsHfv17yhUujZn9kJr27PFs0HRjj_QbQ_zBAJp-yHzk
Thus this detail should be changed. Jag2019 ( talk) 08:32, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Periyar is an Alternative Name given by His Follower. As Alternative name doesn't require any special space on the Article Heading, This article should only be in the Name of E. V. Ramasamy as both Alternative Names Cannot exist in the Title. Explanation for the Periyar Title was alread well mentioned within the Article. Having Alternate Name of a person among supporter along with Official Name will lead to confusion among Reads, So the Page was moved to E. V. Ramasamy Page from Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Page. Please Discuss further Before any Chance to page. Article with correct Name Reference Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NewGen.Kat ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Unfortunately someone (not belongs to his country or his community) removed the award from this page.
Award : Unesco Rumilus ( talk) 13:35, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:06, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The section on Vaikom Satyagraha is poorly structured, temporally inconsistent and repetitive. Anxrn ( talk) 14:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy Nayakar has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Manikandaraj Srinivasan ( talk) 13:33, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
E. V. Ramasamy Nayakar Manikandaraj Srinivasan ( talk) 13:35, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Periyar has been centre of many controversies especially with views on Hinduism warrant a separate section, with reference to the recent controversy which incidentally has also gone right to the judiciary- [1] Amitized ( talk) 05:07, 22 January 2020 (UTC)Amitized
References
![]() | This
edit request to
Periyar E. V. Ramasamy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Vaikom Satyagraha (1924–1925) the last two paragraphs are already published at the start of the section. "According to the prevalent caste system in Kerala and the rest of India, low-caste Hindus were denied entry into temples. In Kerala, they were denied permission to walk on the roads that led to the temples also. (Kerala state was formed in 1956; earlier it was broadly divided into Malabar (North Kerala), Cochin and Travancore kingdoms). In the Kakinada meet of the Congress Party in 1923, T K Madhavan presented a report citing the discrimination faced by the depressed castes in Kerala. That session decided to promote movements against untouchability.
In Kerala, a committee was formed comprising people of different castes to fight untouchability in the region. The committee chaired by K Kelappan, composed of T K Madhavan, Velayudha Menon, Kurur Neelakantan Namboodiripad and T R Krishnaswami Iyer. In February 1924, they decided to launch a ‘Keralaparyatanam’ to gain temple entry and also the right to use public roads for every Hindu irrespective of caste or creed." Wik sandeep ( talk) 06:49, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Done--
Goldsztajn (
talk)
17:49, 17 April 2020 (UTC)