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Added 'citation required' notes for a number of blatantly pro-EVR comments which where there in the article without any substantiation. - ramananpi.
The references www.periyar.org and www.tamilnation.org are NOT unbiased or academic sources. Periyar.org is a propaganda page of the Dravidar Kazhagam, and Tamilnation.org is a propaganda site created by a SriLankan activist. These are not sufficient citations.
Most of this article is highly biased towards EVR. The title should be changed from Periyar Ramasami to E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker. That is his real name. Periyar is merely a title that is given by and used by his followers. -- Sekar.
Questions about references need to raised here only citation needed can be raised in the article.Tamil Nadu government after 1967 refers to him as Periyar more so after 1973 hence some users refer him as Periyar while some as EVR it is not by his followers merely but by the Government also.A district Erode was named Periyar district and so on.
Hema Malini is not refered as UMA her real name similarly Jayalaitha not as komanavali her real name as no one would know them.They have not changed there names offically.This is the dispute but we need some neutral to decide on this.
I feel Tamilnation.org is okay .It is a Sri Lankan Tamil site with a lot of information about MGR,Tirukural,Tamil literature,musicians not merely politices one of the best ones and other things.It is may considered neutral in this contest.While Periyar.org i agree with you.Further a sify.com reference was provided there. 125.22.235.226 06:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} The redirect plainly should point to E. V. Ramasami Naicker, not Periyar (disambiguation), regardless of what one thinks about the content. -- Russ (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Max Mueller has been classified as a British Scholor in the section 'Periyar and pseudohistory', while the wikipedia references to Max mueller claim that he is German Philologist and Orientalist.
Max Muller was a German born scholar holding a famous indology chair in Britan. This should remove all doubts about the above mentioned inaccuracies.
Why is there no mention of the Vaikom struggle ? Did some self-proclaimed Aryan remove references to Vaikom ?
—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
MylaiMirasu (
talk •
contribs)
22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC).
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.243.243.251 ( talk) 16:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
As Periyar University,District are named after him.Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar so Periyar 125.22.158.169 09:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The Periyar River, one of the important rivers of South India, predates EVR by thousands of years. Periyar is only a title for EVR given by his followers, and not accepted by others. Because his followers are in power in Tamil Nadu, Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar. He never renounced his given name including the caste name during his lifetime. So Wikipedia should refer to him as E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker - the name he always used for himself. Please rename the title to EVR and use disambiguation.
Why I respect Sree Narayana Guru but not EVR. This article says it much better than many others can: http://www.rediff.com/news/jan/27raj.htm
EVR is the real Periyar. Great Man - Or Thanthai Periyar - Father Dada Great Man.
As such Periyar is really EVR and not the river.
-- Cindy Manu 12:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Periyar River is referred to as Periyar not Periyaru for the last 3000 years.. so you want to rename it for your convenience?? You guys will do anything to get your way won't you..
So you think when someone says "Thanthai Periyar" they mean he is their father ? By your logic, since Gandhiji is called the Father of the nation, he is everyone's father ??? Man, you need help.
periyar was a charlatan and a hoax.
his supporters are busy making up stories about him. one such is his appellation as 'vaikom veerar' or 'vaikom hero', regarding the myth that he was a major player in the vaikom satyagraha on 1924 in kerala.
the fact of the matter is that evr went to kerala. nobody paid the slightest attention to him, because everyone in kerala knew him as a hate-mongering ruffian. he came, he saw, and he was ignored. so instead of 'vaikom veerar', he was 'vaikom visitor' or 'vaikom tourist'. but this 'vaikom veerar' bullshit was part of a speech made by karunanidhi justifying 'dravidian' imperialism over the mullaperiyar dam in kerala just a few weeks ago, so they are still shouting from the rooftops about it.
and why do i feel particularly incensed about this lie? it is because members of my family led the vaikom satyagraha, and they were the ones who were beaten up by the police. this poseur periyar just showed up, got some 'photo ops' and was roundly ignored by all concerned.
this is the kind of 'truth by repeated assertion' that the 'dravidians' and their patrons the christists are very good at. 'dravidianism' is a nihilistic and empty neo-semitic cult, and the cult founders and camp-followers have made out like bandits, just like the fellow-travelers who have benefited from all the other neo-semitic ideologies like marxism, nehruism, ambedkarism, etc.
---so much hatred for a leader of millions? how are you less in "truth by repeated assertion" than that you claim periyar followers to be? It is this arrogance that he fought against till his death. what a pity... the arrogance is still alive!
I have asked for help from India message board. Added NPOV as the point of views are heavily disputed I feel we need someone neutral to adjujrigate on this who is knowledgeable on this. Vaikom issue ,Periyar was asked to lead the agitition because he happened to be the President of the Tamil Nadu congress Committee. Please refer these 2 http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0499/65.html http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990331/iex31073p.html Anyway added your viewpoint also. Further the naming dispute also has be resolved by someone neutral As I see no meeting point here.
Further blogs,messageboard and own website are not considered as reliable sources as per Wikipedia policy
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/12/dravidiana-perversity-of-periyarana.html is a blog now anyone can create a blog or a own site and link a article and give it as a source this is not allowed as it is not it is not relable
while a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible through gives only there POV.One can add another artcle with a different POV. Harlowraman 07:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
EVR is a not good leader
The EVR page has been run largely by his followers, and presents a very deliberately cultivated point of view. EVR's hate campaign against the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu is being hidden by the authors, and any attempt to mention that is immediately edited out. One has to only read any of his articles to see how he viewed only brahmins, and every brahmin (irrespective of attitude or background) as the enemy. Since this is a minority community it does not have any voice in what is put out in Tamil Nadu. This situation is similar to that of the Periyar movie - it is created by funds given by the TN government (run by DMK), and other funds collected by DK and other organizations. Further, announcements related to the movie are given by DK general secretary. How objective is this movie going to be? Let Wikipedia not descend to those levels.
Reply - Seconded. He was a polemicist and he laid the groundwork for the persecution of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu. Baka man 23:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Reply - Absolutely. For all his talk of being a rationalist, there never was a bigger hypocrite that walked this earth than EVR. He always advocated anti-brahminism in the garb of atheism. His philosophy never boycotted Islam, Christianity and other religions and their gods. He found soft targets in brahmins and found it easy to create a movement like this and get away with it. If only EVR and his cronies(DK, DMK, Satyaraj, Veeramani, Kamal Hassan included) had spoken against Muslims and their beliefs the way they did against Brahmins, history would have been vastly different. There would never have been any Dravidian parties in existence today. Anti-God is different from Anti-Brahminism and EVR advocated the second in the garb of the first. Silanthimanithan 10:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Reply - Mr. Periyar had his beliefs which some of you may agree or not and consequently consider him great or otherwise. I am up for neutral presentation of both viewpoints. But I am saddened by the fact that the page has been just used to spill out more anti-brahmin venom. People need to stop blaming others for their problems. Sure some are born rich, others poor, life is like that - it is all upto you.
Reply: This article should be neutral. On the contrary, it has a high pro-Periyar bias and statements from partisan sites dedicated to Periyar or Dravida Kazhagam. The article needs to be neutral. I feel that a section 'Criticism of EVR' would balance the neutrality of the article- Ravichandar 04:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Reply - the present page is totally vandalised by anti-periyar and pro-Brahmin culprits. The truth is that there was so much more to periyar than is being projected in this page. A neutral view is warranted.
Reply - agreed. there is a lot more to Periyar than what is in the current page (as on Sep 9th 2007). besides i find many people in this page claiming that the conventional knowledge of his life is a lie forged by his followers... and then give their version without any evidence... and don't see a problem with this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.35.5 ( talk) 02:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Please clarify this point
Periyar or EVR spoke and wrote against Brahmins this by itself does not turn into Persecution in a democracy
Looking right from 1919 till date in over 80 years
Hence I find the concept of Persecution a mere mythI would welcome a reply to this.
125.22.132.241 20:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
People in Imdia should be greatful that finally they can get rid of casteism and religious superstition because of Periyar and other social workers like him. Brahmins are just like any other Indian. They do not have any separate DNA or blood group. as such Brahmins should start mixing with other caste and voluntarily marry other people. This will benefit India in the long range as other nations were able to enslave India because of caste system. If all Indians have joined and fought against the Invaders who came through Khyber Pass or the other colonialists who came through the Cape of Good Hope and Suez Canal the status of India is now far bigger than Japan. India was done to slavery because of the caste system. That is why Periyar is great. He has the guts to tell everything he believed that is true and scientific. Brahmins should take it easy and get over with their new status quo. -- Cindy Manu 12:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Cindy's note is an example of the muddled thinking that EVR's followers show. First of all, EVR changed the meaning of the word "Brahminism" to mean what is normally meant by "Casteism". In the rest of the world and in the rest of India outside Tamil Nadu, "Brahminism" means the rituals and traditions of Brahmins. This largely includes traditions that are historically practiced by Brahmins and has nothing to do with Casteism. EVR's clever usage of words made Brahmins the only guilty party in a complex caste system that is practised mostly by non-Brahmins. If he had been serious about removing casteism, he would have used the word Casteism. EVR's scapegoating of Brahmins is his only legacy in Tamil Nadu. He blamed all brahmins without exception for all the evils of Tamil society. In his way of thinking, any Brahmin was guilty simply because he was born a Brahmin. Didn't matter whether he/she was broad-minded etc. Most of EVR's ideas show a high degree of emotion-based hatred rather than rational thinking. He is *not* a rationalist in the commonly understood sense of the word - i. e. one whe reasons things out and comes to conclusions. EVR is better described as a hate-monger, similar to other hate-mongers such as Hitler. He wanted the destruction of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, nothing more, nothing less. He also did nothing for the dalits. He belonged to the non-brahmin upper-caste Naickers, and his propaganda largely benefited the non-brahmin-upper-caste - i. e., the OBCs - who rule Tamil Nadu. -RSekar
Look in 1919 over 70% of the posts of Madras Presidency were with the brahmins and over 65 of the university students were brahmins. [1] Brahmins dominated madras Presidency this caused resentment amongst the non brahmins and a non Brahmin Justice Party which brought communial reservation for the first time in india to ensure that 93% non brahmin also got a reasonable share in government jobs ,education etc.Reservation and other measures was supported all other castes except Brahmins as they had everything to lose and similarly.It was only later divisions within the non brahmins like Thever-Dalit,Vanniyar-Dalit came.when Periyar led the movement they were united.Opposition this came only from the Brahmins.No other caste opposed hence Periyar also had to oppose them.this reform movement and policy were opposed by the Brahmins.
Mr Rsekar Education needs to be universal if the country has to progress.This is the goal of almost the view all right thinking people and governments worldwide.please do not compere Education with Textile or Jewellery.The main reason why Bihar ,Africa do not well is lack of education despite being rich naturally whereas Japan ,South korea do well is because of there human resource created through education despite lacking natural resources. Kerala has achived widespread literacy, equitable and broad health coverage, gender equality, improved life expectancy, poverty reduction despite lack of natural resouces and investment due to education.Tamil Nadu has also progress socially compared to states like Bihar. The reason Tamil Nadu and Kerala do well is because of education where all sections of the society right particularly backword castes have also got education.This is the result of leaders like Periyar,Narayana Guru ,Justice Party who opened the doors of education to all in particular backword classes Whereas in states like Bihar,UP etc upper castes dominated until the Mandal Era. In Bihar for example more 85% of the backword castes are illitrate hence they have pulled the state backwords with low literacy ,poor health coverage ,low life expectancy,poverty and in recent years great social tension between castes. Mr Rumpelstiltskin223 The reason why more brahmins got educated whereas Dalits and other backwords did not is due caste system and caste based professions(Varna system . [2] Education needs to opened to all sections of the society and students of all castes need to enter higher education.Education needs to given to all castes . For the injustice done due to the caste system Dalits and backword castes get just 2 major concessions
No social group can be ignored by the Government .Today if goes to a Government office or education institution he will find prople from all castes the number of Brahmins has come down significantly from about 70% in 1919 to around 10% No single caste dominates Similar is the case in BPO which have no reservation.We find Boys and girls from all castes .no single caste dominates. If the IT field is doing it is due to the human resource created by education.Here the sourthern states are doing well .Education has been given to all castes whereas in the north majority of backword are still not given education hence they have pulled the states social progress backwords. Look in 1919 over 50% including the entire population of dalits had less than 2% of the seats and less than 1% of government jobs. Look reservation ensured that all communites got a chance in education.Education was denied under the varna system for over 5000 years.The first generation needs to be education like in Kerala later educated parents will ensure there children are educated for social progressHence the need for ending Brahmin domination.Further in 1919 we had only the Madras University and Annamalai university came up only then in the entire Madras Presidency which included parts of Andhra,Malabar,Belalry etc.There was also a clear lack of resources hence one had to rob peter to give paul. 125.22.132.241 18:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Burakumin are 100% literare in rich Japan and enjoy social security among other things.Secondly they are small minority about only 2% of Japanese Population.Further Caste system was never as organised as in India [3]
“ | they are hampered because poor living conditions and education prevent them from obtaining good employment and low income leads to the next generation repeating the cycle | ” |
Further I feel the writer refered to the Hindi belt The Hindi belt is not doing fine and Bihar in particular and the Hindi belt. more IT investors including Bill Gates prefer Andhra and the south over north india. Haryana and Punjab are rich argicultural states from time immerial.Gujarat is a traders despite recent violence investment follows in.Bengal was a leading state till B.C.roy was the chief minister.Calcutta was India's most prefered city. 61.247.247.249 12:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There is every indication from his personal life that periyar had little regard for women, and treated them no more than commodities to fullfil his own political aspirations and ego. He abondoned his wife immediately after the death of their infant child and ran away to kashi - does that sound like someone who deeply cared about women and their welfare, or respected his wife? While many Indian men at that time, who were fighting for india's independence, had to leave behind their families for the sake of the freedom of the country, Periyar was not deeply patriot nor an enthusiastic freedom fighter. He was more interested in furthering his political career and saw the British presence as being useful in his political agenda. His abandonement of his wife, and family, reflects by today's standards of marital relationships, a total disregard for his spouse and family. In today's societal context, he would have been labeled as a dead-beat husband. Second, he married at a relatively old age to a woman far younger than himself, and tried to rationalize his behavior that he did it that she could inherit his legacy. His justification rings hollow. She was no doubt a highly attractive young woman who kindled passions in the old man. If his intentions were indeed honorable as he claimed, he could have formally adopted her as his child, which would have then made her the legitimate heir to his legacy. The practice of adoption, by childless persons, was quite common those days. Yet, he married this woman young enough to be his grand-daughter, after decades of preaching respect for women. {user: vmiller2007]
I have removed several sections of the article that appear to be direct copies from http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-periyar280603.htm. The website appears to be copyrighted, and there has been no assertion of permission to copy the article here. Please do not restore these sections without getting the original author's permission to reproduce content under the GFDL, and without reporting it to permissions at wikimedia dot org. Thank you, Tangotango ( talk) 11:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Lots of brahmins have hatred towards Periyar even though none of them felt the effect of his actions personally. However today Jayalalithaa Jayaram a Brahmin Iyengar is the leader of AIADMK. She has been CM many times. S. Ve. Shekar another Brahmin is a MLA in TN assembly. T N Seshan was the CEO of India. Kanchi Sankaracharyar is still the number one spiritual leader in TN with a huge following.
Periyar fought for the rights of backward people. He condemned discrimination of backward classes and dalits. It is only fair that the majority gets to rule while giving minority its proportional power. In this Brahmins have got more than their proportion to tell the truth. One cannot expect to get 100% the power by being only 4% the population in a democracy.
Sriramwins 05:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Even now Brahmin mafia exists even within Brahmins. For example the TVS group of companies reject Iyers and only select Iyengars for the jobs in their companies. Who cares about Government jobs in India anyway? Everybody is quitting government jobs. As far as leeching off society goes, one has to wonder who is worse whether it is modern politicians who invest their earnings in India or the British and their enablers who took their earnings to UK?
Sriramwins
22:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Sriram, Get your facts right. Where on earth did you come up with a fact that TVS group reject Iyers? I have worked with automobile industry and know many Iyers and non-brahmins in high positions in TVS group. ( rams81 20:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC))
Periyar was against both Brahmins and saiva-Vellalas since they were discriminatory towards the remaining 90% of the population. They had all the power, lands and government jobs.
However Brahmins have borne the brunt of his attack simply because brahmins had all the power, lands and government jobs. This was out of proportion to their numbers in the population.
Sriramwins 21:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
List of Notable followers
Please mention any reference to indicate that Kamal Haasan is a follower of Periyar.It might be noted that being an atheist need not necessarily mean one must be follower of Periyar Srikanth \ talk \ contribs 06:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Added 'citation required' notes for a number of blatantly pro-EVR comments which where there in the article without any substantiation. - ramananpi.
The references www.periyar.org and www.tamilnation.org are NOT unbiased or academic sources. Periyar.org is a propaganda page of the Dravidar Kazhagam, and Tamilnation.org is a propaganda site created by a SriLankan activist. These are not sufficient citations.
Most of this article is highly biased towards EVR. The title should be changed from Periyar Ramasami to E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker. That is his real name. Periyar is merely a title that is given by and used by his followers. -- Sekar.
Questions about references need to raised here only citation needed can be raised in the article.Tamil Nadu government after 1967 refers to him as Periyar more so after 1973 hence some users refer him as Periyar while some as EVR it is not by his followers merely but by the Government also.A district Erode was named Periyar district and so on.
Hema Malini is not refered as UMA her real name similarly Jayalaitha not as komanavali her real name as no one would know them.They have not changed there names offically.This is the dispute but we need some neutral to decide on this.
I feel Tamilnation.org is okay .It is a Sri Lankan Tamil site with a lot of information about MGR,Tirukural,Tamil literature,musicians not merely politices one of the best ones and other things.It is may considered neutral in this contest.While Periyar.org i agree with you.Further a sify.com reference was provided there. 125.22.235.226 06:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} The redirect plainly should point to E. V. Ramasami Naicker, not Periyar (disambiguation), regardless of what one thinks about the content. -- Russ (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Max Mueller has been classified as a British Scholor in the section 'Periyar and pseudohistory', while the wikipedia references to Max mueller claim that he is German Philologist and Orientalist.
Max Muller was a German born scholar holding a famous indology chair in Britan. This should remove all doubts about the above mentioned inaccuracies.
Why is there no mention of the Vaikom struggle ? Did some self-proclaimed Aryan remove references to Vaikom ?
—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
MylaiMirasu (
talk •
contribs)
22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC).
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.243.243.251 ( talk) 16:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
As Periyar University,District are named after him.Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar so Periyar 125.22.158.169 09:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The Periyar River, one of the important rivers of South India, predates EVR by thousands of years. Periyar is only a title for EVR given by his followers, and not accepted by others. Because his followers are in power in Tamil Nadu, Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar. He never renounced his given name including the caste name during his lifetime. So Wikipedia should refer to him as E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker - the name he always used for himself. Please rename the title to EVR and use disambiguation.
Why I respect Sree Narayana Guru but not EVR. This article says it much better than many others can: http://www.rediff.com/news/jan/27raj.htm
EVR is the real Periyar. Great Man - Or Thanthai Periyar - Father Dada Great Man.
As such Periyar is really EVR and not the river.
-- Cindy Manu 12:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Periyar River is referred to as Periyar not Periyaru for the last 3000 years.. so you want to rename it for your convenience?? You guys will do anything to get your way won't you..
So you think when someone says "Thanthai Periyar" they mean he is their father ? By your logic, since Gandhiji is called the Father of the nation, he is everyone's father ??? Man, you need help.
periyar was a charlatan and a hoax.
his supporters are busy making up stories about him. one such is his appellation as 'vaikom veerar' or 'vaikom hero', regarding the myth that he was a major player in the vaikom satyagraha on 1924 in kerala.
the fact of the matter is that evr went to kerala. nobody paid the slightest attention to him, because everyone in kerala knew him as a hate-mongering ruffian. he came, he saw, and he was ignored. so instead of 'vaikom veerar', he was 'vaikom visitor' or 'vaikom tourist'. but this 'vaikom veerar' bullshit was part of a speech made by karunanidhi justifying 'dravidian' imperialism over the mullaperiyar dam in kerala just a few weeks ago, so they are still shouting from the rooftops about it.
and why do i feel particularly incensed about this lie? it is because members of my family led the vaikom satyagraha, and they were the ones who were beaten up by the police. this poseur periyar just showed up, got some 'photo ops' and was roundly ignored by all concerned.
this is the kind of 'truth by repeated assertion' that the 'dravidians' and their patrons the christists are very good at. 'dravidianism' is a nihilistic and empty neo-semitic cult, and the cult founders and camp-followers have made out like bandits, just like the fellow-travelers who have benefited from all the other neo-semitic ideologies like marxism, nehruism, ambedkarism, etc.
---so much hatred for a leader of millions? how are you less in "truth by repeated assertion" than that you claim periyar followers to be? It is this arrogance that he fought against till his death. what a pity... the arrogance is still alive!
I have asked for help from India message board. Added NPOV as the point of views are heavily disputed I feel we need someone neutral to adjujrigate on this who is knowledgeable on this. Vaikom issue ,Periyar was asked to lead the agitition because he happened to be the President of the Tamil Nadu congress Committee. Please refer these 2 http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0499/65.html http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990331/iex31073p.html Anyway added your viewpoint also. Further the naming dispute also has be resolved by someone neutral As I see no meeting point here.
Further blogs,messageboard and own website are not considered as reliable sources as per Wikipedia policy
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/12/dravidiana-perversity-of-periyarana.html is a blog now anyone can create a blog or a own site and link a article and give it as a source this is not allowed as it is not it is not relable
while a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible through gives only there POV.One can add another artcle with a different POV. Harlowraman 07:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
EVR is a not good leader
The EVR page has been run largely by his followers, and presents a very deliberately cultivated point of view. EVR's hate campaign against the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu is being hidden by the authors, and any attempt to mention that is immediately edited out. One has to only read any of his articles to see how he viewed only brahmins, and every brahmin (irrespective of attitude or background) as the enemy. Since this is a minority community it does not have any voice in what is put out in Tamil Nadu. This situation is similar to that of the Periyar movie - it is created by funds given by the TN government (run by DMK), and other funds collected by DK and other organizations. Further, announcements related to the movie are given by DK general secretary. How objective is this movie going to be? Let Wikipedia not descend to those levels.
Reply - Seconded. He was a polemicist and he laid the groundwork for the persecution of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu. Baka man 23:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Reply - Absolutely. For all his talk of being a rationalist, there never was a bigger hypocrite that walked this earth than EVR. He always advocated anti-brahminism in the garb of atheism. His philosophy never boycotted Islam, Christianity and other religions and their gods. He found soft targets in brahmins and found it easy to create a movement like this and get away with it. If only EVR and his cronies(DK, DMK, Satyaraj, Veeramani, Kamal Hassan included) had spoken against Muslims and their beliefs the way they did against Brahmins, history would have been vastly different. There would never have been any Dravidian parties in existence today. Anti-God is different from Anti-Brahminism and EVR advocated the second in the garb of the first. Silanthimanithan 10:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Reply - Mr. Periyar had his beliefs which some of you may agree or not and consequently consider him great or otherwise. I am up for neutral presentation of both viewpoints. But I am saddened by the fact that the page has been just used to spill out more anti-brahmin venom. People need to stop blaming others for their problems. Sure some are born rich, others poor, life is like that - it is all upto you.
Reply: This article should be neutral. On the contrary, it has a high pro-Periyar bias and statements from partisan sites dedicated to Periyar or Dravida Kazhagam. The article needs to be neutral. I feel that a section 'Criticism of EVR' would balance the neutrality of the article- Ravichandar 04:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Reply - the present page is totally vandalised by anti-periyar and pro-Brahmin culprits. The truth is that there was so much more to periyar than is being projected in this page. A neutral view is warranted.
Reply - agreed. there is a lot more to Periyar than what is in the current page (as on Sep 9th 2007). besides i find many people in this page claiming that the conventional knowledge of his life is a lie forged by his followers... and then give their version without any evidence... and don't see a problem with this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.35.5 ( talk) 02:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Please clarify this point
Periyar or EVR spoke and wrote against Brahmins this by itself does not turn into Persecution in a democracy
Looking right from 1919 till date in over 80 years
Hence I find the concept of Persecution a mere mythI would welcome a reply to this.
125.22.132.241 20:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
People in Imdia should be greatful that finally they can get rid of casteism and religious superstition because of Periyar and other social workers like him. Brahmins are just like any other Indian. They do not have any separate DNA or blood group. as such Brahmins should start mixing with other caste and voluntarily marry other people. This will benefit India in the long range as other nations were able to enslave India because of caste system. If all Indians have joined and fought against the Invaders who came through Khyber Pass or the other colonialists who came through the Cape of Good Hope and Suez Canal the status of India is now far bigger than Japan. India was done to slavery because of the caste system. That is why Periyar is great. He has the guts to tell everything he believed that is true and scientific. Brahmins should take it easy and get over with their new status quo. -- Cindy Manu 12:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Cindy's note is an example of the muddled thinking that EVR's followers show. First of all, EVR changed the meaning of the word "Brahminism" to mean what is normally meant by "Casteism". In the rest of the world and in the rest of India outside Tamil Nadu, "Brahminism" means the rituals and traditions of Brahmins. This largely includes traditions that are historically practiced by Brahmins and has nothing to do with Casteism. EVR's clever usage of words made Brahmins the only guilty party in a complex caste system that is practised mostly by non-Brahmins. If he had been serious about removing casteism, he would have used the word Casteism. EVR's scapegoating of Brahmins is his only legacy in Tamil Nadu. He blamed all brahmins without exception for all the evils of Tamil society. In his way of thinking, any Brahmin was guilty simply because he was born a Brahmin. Didn't matter whether he/she was broad-minded etc. Most of EVR's ideas show a high degree of emotion-based hatred rather than rational thinking. He is *not* a rationalist in the commonly understood sense of the word - i. e. one whe reasons things out and comes to conclusions. EVR is better described as a hate-monger, similar to other hate-mongers such as Hitler. He wanted the destruction of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, nothing more, nothing less. He also did nothing for the dalits. He belonged to the non-brahmin upper-caste Naickers, and his propaganda largely benefited the non-brahmin-upper-caste - i. e., the OBCs - who rule Tamil Nadu. -RSekar
Look in 1919 over 70% of the posts of Madras Presidency were with the brahmins and over 65 of the university students were brahmins. [1] Brahmins dominated madras Presidency this caused resentment amongst the non brahmins and a non Brahmin Justice Party which brought communial reservation for the first time in india to ensure that 93% non brahmin also got a reasonable share in government jobs ,education etc.Reservation and other measures was supported all other castes except Brahmins as they had everything to lose and similarly.It was only later divisions within the non brahmins like Thever-Dalit,Vanniyar-Dalit came.when Periyar led the movement they were united.Opposition this came only from the Brahmins.No other caste opposed hence Periyar also had to oppose them.this reform movement and policy were opposed by the Brahmins.
Mr Rsekar Education needs to be universal if the country has to progress.This is the goal of almost the view all right thinking people and governments worldwide.please do not compere Education with Textile or Jewellery.The main reason why Bihar ,Africa do not well is lack of education despite being rich naturally whereas Japan ,South korea do well is because of there human resource created through education despite lacking natural resources. Kerala has achived widespread literacy, equitable and broad health coverage, gender equality, improved life expectancy, poverty reduction despite lack of natural resouces and investment due to education.Tamil Nadu has also progress socially compared to states like Bihar. The reason Tamil Nadu and Kerala do well is because of education where all sections of the society right particularly backword castes have also got education.This is the result of leaders like Periyar,Narayana Guru ,Justice Party who opened the doors of education to all in particular backword classes Whereas in states like Bihar,UP etc upper castes dominated until the Mandal Era. In Bihar for example more 85% of the backword castes are illitrate hence they have pulled the state backwords with low literacy ,poor health coverage ,low life expectancy,poverty and in recent years great social tension between castes. Mr Rumpelstiltskin223 The reason why more brahmins got educated whereas Dalits and other backwords did not is due caste system and caste based professions(Varna system . [2] Education needs to opened to all sections of the society and students of all castes need to enter higher education.Education needs to given to all castes . For the injustice done due to the caste system Dalits and backword castes get just 2 major concessions
No social group can be ignored by the Government .Today if goes to a Government office or education institution he will find prople from all castes the number of Brahmins has come down significantly from about 70% in 1919 to around 10% No single caste dominates Similar is the case in BPO which have no reservation.We find Boys and girls from all castes .no single caste dominates. If the IT field is doing it is due to the human resource created by education.Here the sourthern states are doing well .Education has been given to all castes whereas in the north majority of backword are still not given education hence they have pulled the states social progress backwords. Look in 1919 over 50% including the entire population of dalits had less than 2% of the seats and less than 1% of government jobs. Look reservation ensured that all communites got a chance in education.Education was denied under the varna system for over 5000 years.The first generation needs to be education like in Kerala later educated parents will ensure there children are educated for social progressHence the need for ending Brahmin domination.Further in 1919 we had only the Madras University and Annamalai university came up only then in the entire Madras Presidency which included parts of Andhra,Malabar,Belalry etc.There was also a clear lack of resources hence one had to rob peter to give paul. 125.22.132.241 18:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Burakumin are 100% literare in rich Japan and enjoy social security among other things.Secondly they are small minority about only 2% of Japanese Population.Further Caste system was never as organised as in India [3]
“ | they are hampered because poor living conditions and education prevent them from obtaining good employment and low income leads to the next generation repeating the cycle | ” |
Further I feel the writer refered to the Hindi belt The Hindi belt is not doing fine and Bihar in particular and the Hindi belt. more IT investors including Bill Gates prefer Andhra and the south over north india. Haryana and Punjab are rich argicultural states from time immerial.Gujarat is a traders despite recent violence investment follows in.Bengal was a leading state till B.C.roy was the chief minister.Calcutta was India's most prefered city. 61.247.247.249 12:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There is every indication from his personal life that periyar had little regard for women, and treated them no more than commodities to fullfil his own political aspirations and ego. He abondoned his wife immediately after the death of their infant child and ran away to kashi - does that sound like someone who deeply cared about women and their welfare, or respected his wife? While many Indian men at that time, who were fighting for india's independence, had to leave behind their families for the sake of the freedom of the country, Periyar was not deeply patriot nor an enthusiastic freedom fighter. He was more interested in furthering his political career and saw the British presence as being useful in his political agenda. His abandonement of his wife, and family, reflects by today's standards of marital relationships, a total disregard for his spouse and family. In today's societal context, he would have been labeled as a dead-beat husband. Second, he married at a relatively old age to a woman far younger than himself, and tried to rationalize his behavior that he did it that she could inherit his legacy. His justification rings hollow. She was no doubt a highly attractive young woman who kindled passions in the old man. If his intentions were indeed honorable as he claimed, he could have formally adopted her as his child, which would have then made her the legitimate heir to his legacy. The practice of adoption, by childless persons, was quite common those days. Yet, he married this woman young enough to be his grand-daughter, after decades of preaching respect for women. {user: vmiller2007]
I have removed several sections of the article that appear to be direct copies from http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-periyar280603.htm. The website appears to be copyrighted, and there has been no assertion of permission to copy the article here. Please do not restore these sections without getting the original author's permission to reproduce content under the GFDL, and without reporting it to permissions at wikimedia dot org. Thank you, Tangotango ( talk) 11:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Lots of brahmins have hatred towards Periyar even though none of them felt the effect of his actions personally. However today Jayalalithaa Jayaram a Brahmin Iyengar is the leader of AIADMK. She has been CM many times. S. Ve. Shekar another Brahmin is a MLA in TN assembly. T N Seshan was the CEO of India. Kanchi Sankaracharyar is still the number one spiritual leader in TN with a huge following.
Periyar fought for the rights of backward people. He condemned discrimination of backward classes and dalits. It is only fair that the majority gets to rule while giving minority its proportional power. In this Brahmins have got more than their proportion to tell the truth. One cannot expect to get 100% the power by being only 4% the population in a democracy.
Sriramwins 05:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Even now Brahmin mafia exists even within Brahmins. For example the TVS group of companies reject Iyers and only select Iyengars for the jobs in their companies. Who cares about Government jobs in India anyway? Everybody is quitting government jobs. As far as leeching off society goes, one has to wonder who is worse whether it is modern politicians who invest their earnings in India or the British and their enablers who took their earnings to UK?
Sriramwins
22:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Sriram, Get your facts right. Where on earth did you come up with a fact that TVS group reject Iyers? I have worked with automobile industry and know many Iyers and non-brahmins in high positions in TVS group. ( rams81 20:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC))
Periyar was against both Brahmins and saiva-Vellalas since they were discriminatory towards the remaining 90% of the population. They had all the power, lands and government jobs.
However Brahmins have borne the brunt of his attack simply because brahmins had all the power, lands and government jobs. This was out of proportion to their numbers in the population.
Sriramwins 21:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
List of Notable followers
Please mention any reference to indicate that Kamal Haasan is a follower of Periyar.It might be noted that being an atheist need not necessarily mean one must be follower of Periyar Srikanth \ talk \ contribs 06:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
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