![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I just added a whole hunk of information from the smaller version, including natural occurrence. The table looks substantially different, because I originally used it for a chemistry class and placed it in straight HTML (me being deprived of a test wiki at the time), then coded it back. There're probably several regressions, because I used a version from August, so feel free to fix 'em. alerante ✆ 23:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
By the way, all the repetitive formatting in this table really screams for templates. See for example the Norwegian version of this table,
nn:Periodesystemet i stor utgåve, where the code for e.g. period 6 looks like this:
|- ! <big>[[Periode 6|6]]</big> | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |55|Cesium |Cs|132,90545(2) |Fast|Alkalimetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |56|Barium |Ba|137,327(7) |Fast|Jordalkalimetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle |57-71<br>*|Lantanid| |Fast|Lantanid|Ukjent}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |72|Hafnium |Hf|178,49(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |73|Tantal |Ta|180,9479(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |74|Wolfram |W |183,84(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |75|Rhenium |Re|186,207(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |76|Osmium |Os|190,23(3) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |77|Iridium |Ir|192,217(3) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |78|Platina |Pt|195,078(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |79|Gull |Au|196,96655(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |80|Kvikksølv |Hg|200,59(2) |Væske|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |81|Thallium |Tl|204,3833(2) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |82|Bly |Pb|207,2(1) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |83|Vismut |Bi|208,98038(2) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |84|Polonium |Po|[210] |Fast|Halvmetall|Naturleg_radio}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |85|Astat |At|[210] |Fast|Halogen|Naturleg_radio}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |86|Radon |Rn|[220] |Gass|Edelgass|Naturleg_radio}} |-
The main template is nn:Template:Grunnstoff/Celle2. The last three arguments are state of matter, chemical series and stability, which govern text colour, background colour and frame style. Font size, line breaks etc. are in the template. Would anyone be interested in a more easily readable and editable table code? -- Eddi (Talk) 03:27, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Would anyone mind me shrinking the font size to about 50% and redirecting the detailed version into this one? æ l e ✆ 2006-06-07t20:40z
I changed the accuracy of the atomic masses to a maximum of 5 digits resp. 3 decimal digits. I think this more than suffices for an overview table. Also, the table becomes less wide and the boxes now have almost identical widthes as they should. For the same reason one might consider to remove the remaining inaccuracies given in the table.-- Roentgenium111 ( talk) 18:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I have screen-captured this table as a printable file for my kids' use and would like to contribute it to Commons so anyone can use it. I know that this will be a snapshot and will not get updated as regularly as the live Wiki but the same is true of the Schools CD. Does anyone have a comment on this proposal? If not, I'll just go ahead. Mark Beard ( talk) 12:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Can someone please edit the note beneath the table and the table itself: http://www.webelements.com/ Element 112 is now officially known as copernicium. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.250.232.91 ( talk) 22:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Isn't copernicium supposed to be a liquid at STP? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wd930 ( talk • contribs) 06:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
See this article. Affected elements include hydrogen, lithium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, silicon, sulfur, chlorine and thallium, WTF? ( talk) 17:37, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
The numbers whithin parenthesis; what do they mean? E.g. in the entry for hydrogen, it says "1.00794(7)". Does that mean there is 7 discovered isotopes, or is it the uncertainty in the number? \Mike(z) 13:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think Femto's correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.217.65.69 ( talk) 01:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
So, when I clicked Relative atomic mass, the link available right to the rigth of H (it appears as a legend). I end up at Relative atomic mass, with the hatnote: Not to be confused with atomic mass. Now I don't want to confuse myself at all, but why this confusing link then? - DePiep ( talk) 21:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
Periodic table (large version)}}
. Top left has the link (like a legend): "
Relative atomic mass". So far so good. Now when I click that link, I get: Redirected from [[Relative atomic mass]] to Atomic weight
(acceptable for now), that has the Hatnote(!): Not to be confused with
atomic mass. My Q is: Sir, I clicked that word. -
DePiep (
talk)
21:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This is a large version of the periodic table and contains the symbol, atomic number, and mean atomic mass value for the natural isotopic composition of each element. The periodic table of the chemical elements is a tabular method of displaying the chemical elements. Although precursors to this table exist, its invention is generally credited to Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev in 1869. Mendeleev intended the table to illustrate recurring ("periodic") trends in the properties of the elements. The layout of the table has been refined and extended over time, as new elements have been discovered, and new theoretical models have been developed to explain chemical behavior.<ref> "The periodic table of the elements". International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry. 2007-07-22. Retrieved 2008-02-08.</ref>
The periodic table is now ubiquitous within the academic discipline of chemistry, providing an extremely useful framework to classify, systematize and compare all the many different forms of chemical behavior. The table has also found wide application in physics, biology, engineering, and industry. The current standard table contains 118 confirmed elements as of 10 March 2010 [update], through element 118.
Periodic table layouts | |
---|---|
18-column | 32-column |
![]() |
![]() |
I propose to merge article Wide periodic table (large version) into this Periodic table (large version). Bottom line is that both large-cell periodic tables (PT's) show essentially the same PT: one in graphic 18-column format, the other one in 32-column format.
Of the Reasons for merger #2 Overlap and #4 Context are present. One can also see #3 a Text point (as in: they have mostly the same text). For the topic of periodic tables in this wiki, the merge would also help improve overview over various PT articles and topics we have. The two tables shall appear in two sections. The thumbnail-size images, as used here above, may be added as a helpful visual TOC.
The two PTs here show PTs with the same structure in different graphical layouts. This difference does not imply any significant meaning, it is a choice of presentation. Both forms exist in RL. And simply, if there were differences noteworthy, they can ben pointed out easily (more easily) in the merged article. Its background is found in the history of the PT: When the chemical and physical aspects of lanthanides and actinides were discovered, they were simply put below the 18-column PT. This was enough for those who worked with it, and not unimportantly it fitted a book page ratio more conveniently (being more in the book page rectangle). On the other hand, from the scientific point of view there is no reason to set elements apart, and the 32-column shows the PT more complete.
In history, names like "wide", "long", "medium-long" have been used for these layouts. Since they may be confusing, internally this wiki uses "18-column" and "32-column" for unambiguous identification. The word "large" is a word used locally in this enwiki to denote "large element cells" (that have more information, and can run off the screen page; as opposed to medium sized cells seen here.
PTs come with three major identifying differences:
Together, this produced some 16 PTs on this wiki. Folding the two graphic variants into one reduces the number of PT's articles. Also, this merge improves the overview of the PT articles and topics in this wiki, at no cost at all. Even better, the article can zoom in on the (graphical) differences, and maybe its history. (I was triggered by this talk here by Hydradix, that showed that the overview of PTs for Our Reader can be improved). - DePiep ( talk) 14:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Hey, @ DePiep: and @ Bgwhite: How about the two of you list the specific differences they are disputing and let some others chime in? It seems that there is more than just one change being edited and reverted. YBG ( talk) 07:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
vertical-align:top
that way, maybe there are other routes). This is wrong now, and must be corrected. Saying that "The entire table is vertically aligned at the top [all cell contents, I understand]" is not correct. This is also true for the
mobile view.id=toc
is part of every TOC. It is the anchor. Should not be removed.Is there currently something wrong with this page (as of December 31, 2014)? The atomic number on each element shows {{{1}}}. I'm pretty good with wikicode, but I don't want to play with this too much and break it even more.... • Supāsaru 17:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Although the standard layout of the periodic table of elements (normal or large) is practical due to its compactness, is there a page on Wikipedia for a non-compressed versions ("super large") which shows the true "scale" of the atomic structure... that is, is there a Wiki page showing the "F-series" in the middle of the table (for best symbolic effect) as opposed to the format of this page (the classic / compressed version with the F-series relegated to side-notes with * and ** "links") ?
As a terrible example (rendered in ASCII art), something like this:
S S SS PPPPPP SS DDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SS DDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SSFFFFFFFFFFFFFFDDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SSFFFFFFFFFFFFFFDDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP
Personally, I think the above form is more revealing about atomic (or rather electron) structure than the standard form of the periodic table. I suppose because I am a visually-oriented person... but I imagine that applies to many (most?) of the humans on planet Earth. Thoughts? Hydradix ( talk) 05:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Edit
Thanks for your response! The strange thing is my idea is shown in small form in many Wikipedia articles (in the sidebar) but I can not find a page or "official" name for this 'super large format'. I couldn't generate a link to the image, but here is the image itself
Yes I did see where my (not so unique) idea is described as 32-column format, as opposed to "classic" 18-column format. In fact, my idea of "super-large format", can be found in many Wikipedia articles, for example Hydrogen (or any atomic element)... but I can not find a specific reference/article about it!!
Periodic table layouts | |
---|---|
![]() |
![]() |
Lanthanides and actinides separated (left; 18 columns) and in the main table (right; 32 columns) |
Edit 2 I tried your link to Wide periodic table (large version) and it works (thanks), however on first glance, and again now after review, I do not see that link in this article. Did it move somewhere else in the article? Am I blind? Did somebody remove it? I think it should be obvious for the casual Wikipedia reader! Anyway, thanks again DePiep! Hydradix ( talk) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Edit 3 After looking a third time, I did find the link to the Wide periodic table (large version)... it is in the header of the main table of this article. Not at all obvious to me (and I like to think I'm an experienced Wikipedia reader), but at least it exists... thanks again! Hydradix ( talk) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC) /Edit
Well, it seems there is a conscious that we should mention (in the article, not just "side bars") that alternative Periodic Tables exist (weather they are useful/popular is a different story...) I'm not a chemist, so I'm not confident to insert/modify the main text myself, but would love to hear good suggestions (or perhaps somebody will be bold and just do it). Hydradix ( talk) 08:44, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I just added a whole hunk of information from the smaller version, including natural occurrence. The table looks substantially different, because I originally used it for a chemistry class and placed it in straight HTML (me being deprived of a test wiki at the time), then coded it back. There're probably several regressions, because I used a version from August, so feel free to fix 'em. alerante ✆ 23:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
By the way, all the repetitive formatting in this table really screams for templates. See for example the Norwegian version of this table,
nn:Periodesystemet i stor utgåve, where the code for e.g. period 6 looks like this:
|- ! <big>[[Periode 6|6]]</big> | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |55|Cesium |Cs|132,90545(2) |Fast|Alkalimetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |56|Barium |Ba|137,327(7) |Fast|Jordalkalimetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle |57-71<br>*|Lantanid| |Fast|Lantanid|Ukjent}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |72|Hafnium |Hf|178,49(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |73|Tantal |Ta|180,9479(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |74|Wolfram |W |183,84(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |75|Rhenium |Re|186,207(1) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |76|Osmium |Os|190,23(3) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |77|Iridium |Ir|192,217(3) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |78|Platina |Pt|195,078(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |79|Gull |Au|196,96655(2) |Fast|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |80|Kvikksølv |Hg|200,59(2) |Væske|Transisjonsmetall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |81|Thallium |Tl|204,3833(2) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |82|Bly |Pb|207,2(1) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |83|Vismut |Bi|208,98038(2) |Fast|Metall|Grunnelement}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |84|Polonium |Po|[210] |Fast|Halvmetall|Naturleg_radio}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |85|Astat |At|[210] |Fast|Halogen|Naturleg_radio}} | {{Grunnstoff/Celle2 |86|Radon |Rn|[220] |Gass|Edelgass|Naturleg_radio}} |-
The main template is nn:Template:Grunnstoff/Celle2. The last three arguments are state of matter, chemical series and stability, which govern text colour, background colour and frame style. Font size, line breaks etc. are in the template. Would anyone be interested in a more easily readable and editable table code? -- Eddi (Talk) 03:27, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Would anyone mind me shrinking the font size to about 50% and redirecting the detailed version into this one? æ l e ✆ 2006-06-07t20:40z
I changed the accuracy of the atomic masses to a maximum of 5 digits resp. 3 decimal digits. I think this more than suffices for an overview table. Also, the table becomes less wide and the boxes now have almost identical widthes as they should. For the same reason one might consider to remove the remaining inaccuracies given in the table.-- Roentgenium111 ( talk) 18:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I have screen-captured this table as a printable file for my kids' use and would like to contribute it to Commons so anyone can use it. I know that this will be a snapshot and will not get updated as regularly as the live Wiki but the same is true of the Schools CD. Does anyone have a comment on this proposal? If not, I'll just go ahead. Mark Beard ( talk) 12:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Can someone please edit the note beneath the table and the table itself: http://www.webelements.com/ Element 112 is now officially known as copernicium. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.250.232.91 ( talk) 22:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Isn't copernicium supposed to be a liquid at STP? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wd930 ( talk • contribs) 06:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
See this article. Affected elements include hydrogen, lithium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, silicon, sulfur, chlorine and thallium, WTF? ( talk) 17:37, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
The numbers whithin parenthesis; what do they mean? E.g. in the entry for hydrogen, it says "1.00794(7)". Does that mean there is 7 discovered isotopes, or is it the uncertainty in the number? \Mike(z) 13:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think Femto's correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.217.65.69 ( talk) 01:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
So, when I clicked Relative atomic mass, the link available right to the rigth of H (it appears as a legend). I end up at Relative atomic mass, with the hatnote: Not to be confused with atomic mass. Now I don't want to confuse myself at all, but why this confusing link then? - DePiep ( talk) 21:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
Periodic table (large version)}}
. Top left has the link (like a legend): "
Relative atomic mass". So far so good. Now when I click that link, I get: Redirected from [[Relative atomic mass]] to Atomic weight
(acceptable for now), that has the Hatnote(!): Not to be confused with
atomic mass. My Q is: Sir, I clicked that word. -
DePiep (
talk)
21:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This is a large version of the periodic table and contains the symbol, atomic number, and mean atomic mass value for the natural isotopic composition of each element. The periodic table of the chemical elements is a tabular method of displaying the chemical elements. Although precursors to this table exist, its invention is generally credited to Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev in 1869. Mendeleev intended the table to illustrate recurring ("periodic") trends in the properties of the elements. The layout of the table has been refined and extended over time, as new elements have been discovered, and new theoretical models have been developed to explain chemical behavior.<ref> "The periodic table of the elements". International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry. 2007-07-22. Retrieved 2008-02-08.</ref>
The periodic table is now ubiquitous within the academic discipline of chemistry, providing an extremely useful framework to classify, systematize and compare all the many different forms of chemical behavior. The table has also found wide application in physics, biology, engineering, and industry. The current standard table contains 118 confirmed elements as of 10 March 2010 [update], through element 118.
Periodic table layouts | |
---|---|
18-column | 32-column |
![]() |
![]() |
I propose to merge article Wide periodic table (large version) into this Periodic table (large version). Bottom line is that both large-cell periodic tables (PT's) show essentially the same PT: one in graphic 18-column format, the other one in 32-column format.
Of the Reasons for merger #2 Overlap and #4 Context are present. One can also see #3 a Text point (as in: they have mostly the same text). For the topic of periodic tables in this wiki, the merge would also help improve overview over various PT articles and topics we have. The two tables shall appear in two sections. The thumbnail-size images, as used here above, may be added as a helpful visual TOC.
The two PTs here show PTs with the same structure in different graphical layouts. This difference does not imply any significant meaning, it is a choice of presentation. Both forms exist in RL. And simply, if there were differences noteworthy, they can ben pointed out easily (more easily) in the merged article. Its background is found in the history of the PT: When the chemical and physical aspects of lanthanides and actinides were discovered, they were simply put below the 18-column PT. This was enough for those who worked with it, and not unimportantly it fitted a book page ratio more conveniently (being more in the book page rectangle). On the other hand, from the scientific point of view there is no reason to set elements apart, and the 32-column shows the PT more complete.
In history, names like "wide", "long", "medium-long" have been used for these layouts. Since they may be confusing, internally this wiki uses "18-column" and "32-column" for unambiguous identification. The word "large" is a word used locally in this enwiki to denote "large element cells" (that have more information, and can run off the screen page; as opposed to medium sized cells seen here.
PTs come with three major identifying differences:
Together, this produced some 16 PTs on this wiki. Folding the two graphic variants into one reduces the number of PT's articles. Also, this merge improves the overview of the PT articles and topics in this wiki, at no cost at all. Even better, the article can zoom in on the (graphical) differences, and maybe its history. (I was triggered by this talk here by Hydradix, that showed that the overview of PTs for Our Reader can be improved). - DePiep ( talk) 14:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Hey, @ DePiep: and @ Bgwhite: How about the two of you list the specific differences they are disputing and let some others chime in? It seems that there is more than just one change being edited and reverted. YBG ( talk) 07:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
vertical-align:top
that way, maybe there are other routes). This is wrong now, and must be corrected. Saying that "The entire table is vertically aligned at the top [all cell contents, I understand]" is not correct. This is also true for the
mobile view.id=toc
is part of every TOC. It is the anchor. Should not be removed.Is there currently something wrong with this page (as of December 31, 2014)? The atomic number on each element shows {{{1}}}. I'm pretty good with wikicode, but I don't want to play with this too much and break it even more.... • Supāsaru 17:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Although the standard layout of the periodic table of elements (normal or large) is practical due to its compactness, is there a page on Wikipedia for a non-compressed versions ("super large") which shows the true "scale" of the atomic structure... that is, is there a Wiki page showing the "F-series" in the middle of the table (for best symbolic effect) as opposed to the format of this page (the classic / compressed version with the F-series relegated to side-notes with * and ** "links") ?
As a terrible example (rendered in ASCII art), something like this:
S S SS PPPPPP SS DDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SS DDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SSFFFFFFFFFFFFFFDDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP SSFFFFFFFFFFFFFFDDDDDDDDDDPPPPPP
Personally, I think the above form is more revealing about atomic (or rather electron) structure than the standard form of the periodic table. I suppose because I am a visually-oriented person... but I imagine that applies to many (most?) of the humans on planet Earth. Thoughts? Hydradix ( talk) 05:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Edit
Thanks for your response! The strange thing is my idea is shown in small form in many Wikipedia articles (in the sidebar) but I can not find a page or "official" name for this 'super large format'. I couldn't generate a link to the image, but here is the image itself
Yes I did see where my (not so unique) idea is described as 32-column format, as opposed to "classic" 18-column format. In fact, my idea of "super-large format", can be found in many Wikipedia articles, for example Hydrogen (or any atomic element)... but I can not find a specific reference/article about it!!
Periodic table layouts | |
---|---|
![]() |
![]() |
Lanthanides and actinides separated (left; 18 columns) and in the main table (right; 32 columns) |
Edit 2 I tried your link to Wide periodic table (large version) and it works (thanks), however on first glance, and again now after review, I do not see that link in this article. Did it move somewhere else in the article? Am I blind? Did somebody remove it? I think it should be obvious for the casual Wikipedia reader! Anyway, thanks again DePiep! Hydradix ( talk) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Edit 3 After looking a third time, I did find the link to the Wide periodic table (large version)... it is in the header of the main table of this article. Not at all obvious to me (and I like to think I'm an experienced Wikipedia reader), but at least it exists... thanks again! Hydradix ( talk) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC) /Edit
Well, it seems there is a conscious that we should mention (in the article, not just "side bars") that alternative Periodic Tables exist (weather they are useful/popular is a different story...) I'm not a chemist, so I'm not confident to insert/modify the main text myself, but would love to hear good suggestions (or perhaps somebody will be bold and just do it). Hydradix ( talk) 08:44, 15 March 2015 (UTC)