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This article needs to be moved to "per mil" -- Espoo ( talk) 16:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Per mil →
Per mille – Restoring the page to its former position per CONSENSUS and COMMON ENGLISH name, as well as best practices. MOS:NUM hasn't weighed in yet but surely leaving the page here contributes to editors writing out "per mil" and confusing our readers.
See above for the numbers crunching. The short version is that "per mil" does enjoy a lead in scholarly contexts where MOS:NUM would advocate just using the symbol and "per mille" is etymologically correct, also in widespread use among scholars, and more common among people in contexts where it should be written out in the first place. One user moved it on his own (GOODFAITH & based on his own numbers), but four editors since have noted the many problems involved with using such an unhelpful form of such an uncommon term. — LlywelynII 12:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Is it 'per mill' or 'per meal'? Malick78 ( talk) 07:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Per mille is not latin, it's italian. Bye.
Is there a way of getting the bullets under Examples out of the picture? I know there's {clearleft}, but that would put the lines under the picture (which would look even worse). -- Thrissel ( talk) 13:37, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
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The lead as it stands reads
The phrase per mille (from Latin per mīlle 'in each thousand') [1] indicates parts per thousand. [2] The associated symbol is ‰, similar to a per cent sign % but with an extra zero in the divisor.
Major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling, [1] [2] [3] giving other options of per mil, [2] per mill, [1] [3] permil, [1] permill, [1] permille, [4] [5] or promille. [6] [7]
The presence of "promille" on this list is dubious at best, because this is en.wikipedia and promille is German or Swedish, not English. There are two citations to support its presence. The first is a Belgian blog, not a dictionary (and it says that it is a term used "in Europe"). The second is the Cambridge German – English Dictionary, which gives promille as a German word (which it translates as "thousanth"). Googling around, maybe I can find it elsewhere?
Does anyone have a convincing reason why it should be retained? -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:00, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Germany has been referred to as a "promille paradise"; (2) Groma (surveying) § Limitations:
introducing the angle error calculated by the archeologists to be about 1.5 promille– wbm1058 ( talk) 22:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
has been referred to as a "promille paradise"because it is in exact this sense that the word is being used – and it would need a suitable link target, not thus one!
Major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling, which is true for all the words listed except promille. No dictionary (that I found) recognises it as a valid alternative spelling in English; both the citations offered in support of it failed verification. So maybe we should show it somewhere but not in the list of dictionary-supported words. Ideally we should have a citation that is among the "frequently used names by which its subject is widely known" but I won't insist on that.-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 00:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
I propose to resolve the problem by taking promille out of the list of dictionary-recognised terms but mention it separately. I have just found this WP:RS citation:HEINZ GAMSJÄGER; JOHN W. LORIMER; PIRKETTA SCHARLIN; DAVID G. SHAW (2008). "GLOSSARY OF TERMS RELATED TO SOLUBILITY". Pure Appl. Chem. 80 (2): 233–276. doi: 10.1351/pac200880020233. Page 258 says
permil, ‰
per mille
permille
promille
One part in a thousand parts.
Example: The mole fraction x = 2.8 × 10–3 = 2.8 ‰.
(Would I be correct in reading that as saying that "permil" is the preferred form? Is there a documented convention that )
I will also create a new section called Promille that explains it as shorthand in Germany for blood alcohol expressed as mg/g. "This is not my field" so it will be a first draft that is more than usually open to fellow editors to improve. I doubt that there is really enough material for a standalone article that is not just a cfork of Blood Alcohol Concentration. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
References
per mille adverb (also per mil)
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This article needs to be moved to "per mil" -- Espoo ( talk) 16:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Per mil →
Per mille – Restoring the page to its former position per CONSENSUS and COMMON ENGLISH name, as well as best practices. MOS:NUM hasn't weighed in yet but surely leaving the page here contributes to editors writing out "per mil" and confusing our readers.
See above for the numbers crunching. The short version is that "per mil" does enjoy a lead in scholarly contexts where MOS:NUM would advocate just using the symbol and "per mille" is etymologically correct, also in widespread use among scholars, and more common among people in contexts where it should be written out in the first place. One user moved it on his own (GOODFAITH & based on his own numbers), but four editors since have noted the many problems involved with using such an unhelpful form of such an uncommon term. — LlywelynII 12:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Is it 'per mill' or 'per meal'? Malick78 ( talk) 07:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Per mille is not latin, it's italian. Bye.
Is there a way of getting the bullets under Examples out of the picture? I know there's {clearleft}, but that would put the lines under the picture (which would look even worse). -- Thrissel ( talk) 13:37, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Per mille. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:34, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
The lead as it stands reads
The phrase per mille (from Latin per mīlle 'in each thousand') [1] indicates parts per thousand. [2] The associated symbol is ‰, similar to a per cent sign % but with an extra zero in the divisor.
Major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling, [1] [2] [3] giving other options of per mil, [2] per mill, [1] [3] permil, [1] permill, [1] permille, [4] [5] or promille. [6] [7]
The presence of "promille" on this list is dubious at best, because this is en.wikipedia and promille is German or Swedish, not English. There are two citations to support its presence. The first is a Belgian blog, not a dictionary (and it says that it is a term used "in Europe"). The second is the Cambridge German – English Dictionary, which gives promille as a German word (which it translates as "thousanth"). Googling around, maybe I can find it elsewhere?
Does anyone have a convincing reason why it should be retained? -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:00, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Germany has been referred to as a "promille paradise"; (2) Groma (surveying) § Limitations:
introducing the angle error calculated by the archeologists to be about 1.5 promille– wbm1058 ( talk) 22:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
has been referred to as a "promille paradise"because it is in exact this sense that the word is being used – and it would need a suitable link target, not thus one!
Major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling, which is true for all the words listed except promille. No dictionary (that I found) recognises it as a valid alternative spelling in English; both the citations offered in support of it failed verification. So maybe we should show it somewhere but not in the list of dictionary-supported words. Ideally we should have a citation that is among the "frequently used names by which its subject is widely known" but I won't insist on that.-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 00:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
I propose to resolve the problem by taking promille out of the list of dictionary-recognised terms but mention it separately. I have just found this WP:RS citation:HEINZ GAMSJÄGER; JOHN W. LORIMER; PIRKETTA SCHARLIN; DAVID G. SHAW (2008). "GLOSSARY OF TERMS RELATED TO SOLUBILITY". Pure Appl. Chem. 80 (2): 233–276. doi: 10.1351/pac200880020233. Page 258 says
permil, ‰
per mille
permille
promille
One part in a thousand parts.
Example: The mole fraction x = 2.8 × 10–3 = 2.8 ‰.
(Would I be correct in reading that as saying that "permil" is the preferred form? Is there a documented convention that )
I will also create a new section called Promille that explains it as shorthand in Germany for blood alcohol expressed as mg/g. "This is not my field" so it will be a first draft that is more than usually open to fellow editors to improve. I doubt that there is really enough material for a standalone article that is not just a cfork of Blood Alcohol Concentration. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
References
per mille adverb (also per mil)