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I feel that the photo of Pema Chodron in this entry is too dark. Can someone provide a better picture?
The current photograph does not appear to me to be of Pema Chodron. In the origional photo on flickr, she is not identified, and from photos I've seen, the nun in the picture looks very different from Pema Chodron. Has this photo been verified? Nightngle ( talk) 19:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I can confirm that the photo that is posted as of today is Pema Chodron. On website given you can find a portrait of her to compare the photo with. http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/ I agree that a better and/or closer picture of her face would be preferable for the page. Replacing a photo with a better one does not suggest biases or sycophancy. -- Russot1 ( talk) 04:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Ekijati removed "as spam" a link to a wonderfully done satire regarding Chodron in Big Red Buddha, a marvelous, professionally written webzine. I, Enkido, put up the link and it is not spam from me; I'm not Miso, the webmaster; I didn't write the satire. Pema Chodron is a very public person and is certainly not protected from being satirized. Yes, it is not wholly positive, but must everything said about Pema BE positive? THAT is, in fact, I would guess, one of the issues regarding Pema: That she is unassailable -- like the Dalai Lama, St. Francis of Assisi, and Sadam Hussein before 2002 in Iraq. Is Wiki supposed to be a fan magazine, like People or Us -- hopelessly, cloyingling, truth-twistingly positivist? Satarize, don't sanitize!! -- -- Enkido 22:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
So, Ekajati, your sole objection is where the external link was placed? -- -- Enkido 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
MY motivation? That bios in Wiki not fall under the control of the subject's supports such that they are all worshipful. For example, what does this mean, how is this quantified? "She is one of the most successful interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism for westerners." Chodron is probably most know by her books rather than her workshops, seminars and retreats, BUT IT IS THESE IN-PERSON EVENTS WHERE HER MONEY IS MADE. Chodron's agents are, I am sure, delighted with this Wiki entry. They couldn't have paid for better. REAL people have warts and a buzz of concern about them, but in Western Buddhism, you won't easily see it in print. Consider, Zen and the Art of Archery, which was about magic about as much as Harry Potter was the top-selling book on Zen for decades. Why? In part, because it was too pristine for criticism. I would contend that the Big Red Buddha satire is saying something many if not most Buddhists exposed to the Pema phenomena are really thinking: She is a little too much like a Buddhist Mary Poppins OR too authentic to be truly authentic OR, as they say in Zen [tho she's not a Zenist, of course], She has the stench of Zen. -- -- Enkido 23:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
You mean got her hands dirty "fucking" for the dying in Calcutta, forcing them to convert otherwise cursing them to hell?
Putting all the appeals to freedom of speech, right speech, and Mother Teresa aside, it sounds like you would like to write an article for a magazine about your original research about Pema Chodron - that would be very interesting to read. The article as it stands now is merely a stub and hardly the glowing praise of Pema Chodron that seems to be alluded to here. Hopefully, more will be added to the page, but facts about her life would be more in keeping with the encyclopedic nature of this work as opposed the analysis of her work, comparisons with other religious teachers or Oprah, and her place in Western Buddhism that you seem to be suggesting. Nightngle 16:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Ekijati You added a request for a citation to this: "She is one of the most successful interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism for westerners, noted for her approachable and down-to-earth teaching style" Even with a citation, I would like to know what it MEANS. Successful as in having amassed the most wealth? Successful as measured how? She IS the ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT -- I would think that would be a gimmee. As for her style, could we go with "approachable, down-to-earth and annoying"? How about adding "noted for being Oprah-like in putting her picture on the front of all of her books." -- Enkido 01:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I see that there is a single citation at the end of this article. Does that mean that all the information is from that article or does that mean that just the info about her kids and grandkids are from that article? Shouldn't there be a more complete citation system on this page? Thanks, Killerbeez 17:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The history section contained two sentences that were almost facsimnile. "Pema was appointed by Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche as "acharya" (senior teacher) in California." I removed the last one to improve readability.-- Russot1 ( talk) 03:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
This entry needs a major overhaul to Wikify it. From the opening paragraph, with "The goal of her work is the ability to apply Buddhist teachings in everyday life" to the entire "Teachings" section ("Pema Chödrön's teachings are all about not running away from ourselves. She teaches how to embrace life fully, including pleasant and painful situations. Her teachings are of great value in crisis situations...") it's chock-full of weasel words, handwaving and partisan fluff. It was written like a PR piece, not an encyclopedia entry. One could easily imagine a similar puff piece written about the "teachings" of L. Ron Hubbard, Aleister Crowley or the Rev. Jim Jones, but no one would let it go unchallenged. If no one else steps up to prune out all of the subjective blather, I'll do it myself, and there won't be much remaining when I'm done (but it will be Wikified). Bricology ( talk) 18:31, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
The family section is referenced and quote common in biographical entries. I restored it. The teaching section is partially restored with sources. The PR fluff is removed. I took the further reading section and converted them to inline references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helpsome ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
You are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't make your word law. Since you have personally deemed Pema Chodron a "minor theologian", you act accordingly. But that isn't necessarily a correct assumption. I restored what you blanked under the guise of "wikifying". Please don't use dishonest edit summaries. Helpsome ( talk) 17:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I didn't post anything of the kind. I did add sources...which you deleted. I restored that content. Also, you are rude. Helpsome ( talk) 12:56, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, I feel that it is YOU who doesn't understand Wikipedia. As you can see here Wikipedia:Verifiability: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That is, whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. It doesn't matter what you think about shenpa.
Also, the link I provided showed that I didn't add ANY of the material you were speaking about. And you are still rude. Helpsome ( talk) 17:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
As she has a Tibetan name could anyone provide it correctly romanised and also in Tibetan script? EdRicardo ( talk) 13:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Please dont erase big parts before posting reasons here and giving others an option to discussion it. Richard Gooi ( talk) 23:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
We're still relying heavily on primary sources, but it's much improved over the earlier versions. Good job! -- Ronz ( talk) 16:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
I've made some futher edits to both the article and the EL section to reduce the above noted heavy reliance on self pub/primary sources.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:36, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
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Dear Wikipedians,
Would the authors' of this page be amenable to the inclusion of an additional citation regarding Pema Chodron's divorce? The following is a link to a transcript of an interview with Bill Moyers on PBS and contains a clear description of the event that spurred her towards becoming a nun and her departure from secular life. The relevant section starts at: "It evolved around a marriage breaking up..." https://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreason/print/faithandreason107_print.html
Taostlt ( talk) 12:38, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am new to Wikipedia and was hoping to contribute to this page. I added a brief description of the work When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times under the Bibliography section. Any feedback is appreciated! Thank you @ Reagle: Lvogel1 ( talk) 22:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pema Chödrön article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I feel that the photo of Pema Chodron in this entry is too dark. Can someone provide a better picture?
The current photograph does not appear to me to be of Pema Chodron. In the origional photo on flickr, she is not identified, and from photos I've seen, the nun in the picture looks very different from Pema Chodron. Has this photo been verified? Nightngle ( talk) 19:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I can confirm that the photo that is posted as of today is Pema Chodron. On website given you can find a portrait of her to compare the photo with. http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/ I agree that a better and/or closer picture of her face would be preferable for the page. Replacing a photo with a better one does not suggest biases or sycophancy. -- Russot1 ( talk) 04:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Ekijati removed "as spam" a link to a wonderfully done satire regarding Chodron in Big Red Buddha, a marvelous, professionally written webzine. I, Enkido, put up the link and it is not spam from me; I'm not Miso, the webmaster; I didn't write the satire. Pema Chodron is a very public person and is certainly not protected from being satirized. Yes, it is not wholly positive, but must everything said about Pema BE positive? THAT is, in fact, I would guess, one of the issues regarding Pema: That she is unassailable -- like the Dalai Lama, St. Francis of Assisi, and Sadam Hussein before 2002 in Iraq. Is Wiki supposed to be a fan magazine, like People or Us -- hopelessly, cloyingling, truth-twistingly positivist? Satarize, don't sanitize!! -- -- Enkido 22:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
So, Ekajati, your sole objection is where the external link was placed? -- -- Enkido 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
MY motivation? That bios in Wiki not fall under the control of the subject's supports such that they are all worshipful. For example, what does this mean, how is this quantified? "She is one of the most successful interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism for westerners." Chodron is probably most know by her books rather than her workshops, seminars and retreats, BUT IT IS THESE IN-PERSON EVENTS WHERE HER MONEY IS MADE. Chodron's agents are, I am sure, delighted with this Wiki entry. They couldn't have paid for better. REAL people have warts and a buzz of concern about them, but in Western Buddhism, you won't easily see it in print. Consider, Zen and the Art of Archery, which was about magic about as much as Harry Potter was the top-selling book on Zen for decades. Why? In part, because it was too pristine for criticism. I would contend that the Big Red Buddha satire is saying something many if not most Buddhists exposed to the Pema phenomena are really thinking: She is a little too much like a Buddhist Mary Poppins OR too authentic to be truly authentic OR, as they say in Zen [tho she's not a Zenist, of course], She has the stench of Zen. -- -- Enkido 23:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
You mean got her hands dirty "fucking" for the dying in Calcutta, forcing them to convert otherwise cursing them to hell?
Putting all the appeals to freedom of speech, right speech, and Mother Teresa aside, it sounds like you would like to write an article for a magazine about your original research about Pema Chodron - that would be very interesting to read. The article as it stands now is merely a stub and hardly the glowing praise of Pema Chodron that seems to be alluded to here. Hopefully, more will be added to the page, but facts about her life would be more in keeping with the encyclopedic nature of this work as opposed the analysis of her work, comparisons with other religious teachers or Oprah, and her place in Western Buddhism that you seem to be suggesting. Nightngle 16:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Ekijati You added a request for a citation to this: "She is one of the most successful interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism for westerners, noted for her approachable and down-to-earth teaching style" Even with a citation, I would like to know what it MEANS. Successful as in having amassed the most wealth? Successful as measured how? She IS the ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT -- I would think that would be a gimmee. As for her style, could we go with "approachable, down-to-earth and annoying"? How about adding "noted for being Oprah-like in putting her picture on the front of all of her books." -- Enkido 01:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I see that there is a single citation at the end of this article. Does that mean that all the information is from that article or does that mean that just the info about her kids and grandkids are from that article? Shouldn't there be a more complete citation system on this page? Thanks, Killerbeez 17:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The history section contained two sentences that were almost facsimnile. "Pema was appointed by Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche as "acharya" (senior teacher) in California." I removed the last one to improve readability.-- Russot1 ( talk) 03:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
This entry needs a major overhaul to Wikify it. From the opening paragraph, with "The goal of her work is the ability to apply Buddhist teachings in everyday life" to the entire "Teachings" section ("Pema Chödrön's teachings are all about not running away from ourselves. She teaches how to embrace life fully, including pleasant and painful situations. Her teachings are of great value in crisis situations...") it's chock-full of weasel words, handwaving and partisan fluff. It was written like a PR piece, not an encyclopedia entry. One could easily imagine a similar puff piece written about the "teachings" of L. Ron Hubbard, Aleister Crowley or the Rev. Jim Jones, but no one would let it go unchallenged. If no one else steps up to prune out all of the subjective blather, I'll do it myself, and there won't be much remaining when I'm done (but it will be Wikified). Bricology ( talk) 18:31, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
The family section is referenced and quote common in biographical entries. I restored it. The teaching section is partially restored with sources. The PR fluff is removed. I took the further reading section and converted them to inline references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helpsome ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
You are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't make your word law. Since you have personally deemed Pema Chodron a "minor theologian", you act accordingly. But that isn't necessarily a correct assumption. I restored what you blanked under the guise of "wikifying". Please don't use dishonest edit summaries. Helpsome ( talk) 17:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I didn't post anything of the kind. I did add sources...which you deleted. I restored that content. Also, you are rude. Helpsome ( talk) 12:56, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, I feel that it is YOU who doesn't understand Wikipedia. As you can see here Wikipedia:Verifiability: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That is, whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. It doesn't matter what you think about shenpa.
Also, the link I provided showed that I didn't add ANY of the material you were speaking about. And you are still rude. Helpsome ( talk) 17:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
As she has a Tibetan name could anyone provide it correctly romanised and also in Tibetan script? EdRicardo ( talk) 13:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Please dont erase big parts before posting reasons here and giving others an option to discussion it. Richard Gooi ( talk) 23:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
We're still relying heavily on primary sources, but it's much improved over the earlier versions. Good job! -- Ronz ( talk) 16:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
I've made some futher edits to both the article and the EL section to reduce the above noted heavy reliance on self pub/primary sources.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:36, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Pema Chödrön. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Dear Wikipedians,
Would the authors' of this page be amenable to the inclusion of an additional citation regarding Pema Chodron's divorce? The following is a link to a transcript of an interview with Bill Moyers on PBS and contains a clear description of the event that spurred her towards becoming a nun and her departure from secular life. The relevant section starts at: "It evolved around a marriage breaking up..." https://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreason/print/faithandreason107_print.html
Taostlt ( talk) 12:38, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am new to Wikipedia and was hoping to contribute to this page. I added a brief description of the work When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times under the Bibliography section. Any feedback is appreciated! Thank you @ Reagle: Lvogel1 ( talk) 22:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)