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Name change?
Bit of an interesting one that I haven't seen anything about online, and I only noticed when I was selecting my AFLW Fantasy team. Paxman is now listed as
"Paxy Paxman" on the official
Melbourne website. I'm not yet sure whether we would apply
MOS:DEADNAME to this article, but it's clear enough that she wanted a change in official media.
Yeah but we had a discussion on
WT:AFL on Rioli first too. There is a bit more nuance around it than just making the move unannounced I think; this is a top 5 in league games player we are talking about here.
For instance, looking at those tweets, it appears she wants to be known simply as “
Paxy” (a la
Madonna) and that the “Paxy Paxman” usage is only because the league/Champion Data/broadcasters can’t appear to handle mononyms. Do we then know if her pronouns have changed? Is there any source better than just an updated club profile page? Gibbsyspin23:50, 1 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Is this a GENDERID issue or just an "ordinary" name change? (Sorry, I don't have a Twitter account so I can't read tweets without a direct link). –
Teratix₵01:04, 2 September 2023 (UTC)reply
There’s nothing to indicate this is
WP:GENDERID just yet, and I wasn’t listening out for specifically for pronouns during last night’s game.
Here’s the link to the tweet (there’s some contextual tweets above it too) – I wonder if we could try and get a hold
AAP and
News Corp are both now rolling with 'Paxy Paxman' but I would assume that is off the back of the league-wide directive that was supposedly emailed the other week
as per this tweet. One of those other contextual tweets suggests the
mononym. I still wouldn't rule out
GENDERID at this stage as we haven't yet seen Paxman referred to by pronoun in any articles (those club profile bios can sometimes take a little time to be updated). For what it's worth,
AustralianFootball.com and
Demonwiki have also made the 'Paxy Paxman' change, but obviously they don't have guidelines to abide by and can make their own editorial decisions.
I think we should wait it out for further guidance as to whether this is GENDERID, which would make the change a lot easier (although there is still the matter of sourcing whether the page name should simply be 'Paxy' vs. 'Paxy Paxman', the latter of which appears to be used more for technical reasons. I agree the move is premature, but should we revert it or not? Gibbsyspin01:55, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Given the move isn't uncontested, I've reverted and set up a formal move discussion so we can get a few more people to weigh in. –
Teratix₵06:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Requested move 4 September 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose, somewhat begrudgingly, per
WP:SPNC at least until we see further usage and information in the coming weeks/months. As mentioned in the above discussion, there is no suggestion yet as to this being a
WP:GENDERID move, therefore we should revert to
WP:COMMONNAME. As an indication, Karen Paxman is currently at 11,900 results vs Paxy Paxman at 1,560 results, and Paxman has used the Karen Paxman name for 64 out of her 65 league games. That said, the AFLW is a very progressive and inclusive community and I am certain that this new name will become the 'new normal' – and we should follow down that path. If anything, I think the biggest decision will soon be whether this page gets moved simply to
Paxy as per
thesetweets suggesting the preferred use of a
mononym. I do feel a bit uncomfortable about opposing the move given it appears to go against someone's personal request. As it stands, though, if we are to go by the WP guidelines, I think we should wait it out until such time as we have more information to support a move. Gibbsyspin11:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Just a comment that the Official AFLW 2023 guide has Paxy Paxman in both the prose and squad listing for MFC. All references throughout the records sections have been amended that way too.
Storm machine (
talk)
05:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Weak support - this
recent article on Paxman's absence in Round 2 uses she/her pronouns in quotes from the club, indicating the change is not
WP:GENDERID but rather
WP:SPNC. However, given the widespread adoption of the new name from all and sundry (media outlets, the league, the club), there doesn't appear to be any ongoing conjecture or debate as to how Paxman should be referred to. Therefore, I am altering my position to a weak support. Gibbsyspin23:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's sport (and women in sports), a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of women in sports on Wikipedia. For more information, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Women's sportWikipedia:WikiProject Women's sportTemplate:WikiProject Women's sportWomen's sport articles
Paxy Paxman is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Australia and
Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
The
Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.
Name change?
Bit of an interesting one that I haven't seen anything about online, and I only noticed when I was selecting my AFLW Fantasy team. Paxman is now listed as
"Paxy Paxman" on the official
Melbourne website. I'm not yet sure whether we would apply
MOS:DEADNAME to this article, but it's clear enough that she wanted a change in official media.
Yeah but we had a discussion on
WT:AFL on Rioli first too. There is a bit more nuance around it than just making the move unannounced I think; this is a top 5 in league games player we are talking about here.
For instance, looking at those tweets, it appears she wants to be known simply as “
Paxy” (a la
Madonna) and that the “Paxy Paxman” usage is only because the league/Champion Data/broadcasters can’t appear to handle mononyms. Do we then know if her pronouns have changed? Is there any source better than just an updated club profile page? Gibbsyspin23:50, 1 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Is this a GENDERID issue or just an "ordinary" name change? (Sorry, I don't have a Twitter account so I can't read tweets without a direct link). –
Teratix₵01:04, 2 September 2023 (UTC)reply
There’s nothing to indicate this is
WP:GENDERID just yet, and I wasn’t listening out for specifically for pronouns during last night’s game.
Here’s the link to the tweet (there’s some contextual tweets above it too) – I wonder if we could try and get a hold
AAP and
News Corp are both now rolling with 'Paxy Paxman' but I would assume that is off the back of the league-wide directive that was supposedly emailed the other week
as per this tweet. One of those other contextual tweets suggests the
mononym. I still wouldn't rule out
GENDERID at this stage as we haven't yet seen Paxman referred to by pronoun in any articles (those club profile bios can sometimes take a little time to be updated). For what it's worth,
AustralianFootball.com and
Demonwiki have also made the 'Paxy Paxman' change, but obviously they don't have guidelines to abide by and can make their own editorial decisions.
I think we should wait it out for further guidance as to whether this is GENDERID, which would make the change a lot easier (although there is still the matter of sourcing whether the page name should simply be 'Paxy' vs. 'Paxy Paxman', the latter of which appears to be used more for technical reasons. I agree the move is premature, but should we revert it or not? Gibbsyspin01:55, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Given the move isn't uncontested, I've reverted and set up a formal move discussion so we can get a few more people to weigh in. –
Teratix₵06:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Requested move 4 September 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose, somewhat begrudgingly, per
WP:SPNC at least until we see further usage and information in the coming weeks/months. As mentioned in the above discussion, there is no suggestion yet as to this being a
WP:GENDERID move, therefore we should revert to
WP:COMMONNAME. As an indication, Karen Paxman is currently at 11,900 results vs Paxy Paxman at 1,560 results, and Paxman has used the Karen Paxman name for 64 out of her 65 league games. That said, the AFLW is a very progressive and inclusive community and I am certain that this new name will become the 'new normal' – and we should follow down that path. If anything, I think the biggest decision will soon be whether this page gets moved simply to
Paxy as per
thesetweets suggesting the preferred use of a
mononym. I do feel a bit uncomfortable about opposing the move given it appears to go against someone's personal request. As it stands, though, if we are to go by the WP guidelines, I think we should wait it out until such time as we have more information to support a move. Gibbsyspin11:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Just a comment that the Official AFLW 2023 guide has Paxy Paxman in both the prose and squad listing for MFC. All references throughout the records sections have been amended that way too.
Storm machine (
talk)
05:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Weak support - this
recent article on Paxman's absence in Round 2 uses she/her pronouns in quotes from the club, indicating the change is not
WP:GENDERID but rather
WP:SPNC. However, given the widespread adoption of the new name from all and sundry (media outlets, the league, the club), there doesn't appear to be any ongoing conjecture or debate as to how Paxman should be referred to. Therefore, I am altering my position to a weak support. Gibbsyspin23:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.