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Paul Yingling is not a war protestor or anti-war activist. Please do your research on this matter, whoever keeps linking him to those who hold those positions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paganolive ( talk • contribs) 02:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
LTC Paul Yingling is an active duty officer that critized the war in Iraq, that is a fact from his research. He critized highter rank officers of their duties, while he was on active duty. Just like active duty officer First Lieutenant Ehren Watada critized the war in Iraq, but 1LT Watada has stated that he would volunteer to goto Afganistan if sent and would volunteer if allowed to serve in Southwest Asia. Futhermore, Colonel Ann Wright while she was on a member of the Reserves just like LTC Paul Yingling used their position to critized the war in Iraq and she just like LTC Paul Yingling did it publicly in the media. Bnguyen 04:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Your error lies in the difference between criticism of continued US military presense in Iraq or the invasion (your two links) and Yingling's articles, notice plural. Yingling does not criticise the presense of the US military in Iraq, only the strategies pursued by unnamed American generals. Yingling's advocacy of institutional change in the Army is made towards improving the American military's position in Iraq, and he offers no political opinion or moral judgement. Watada and Wright's criticism are not ones concerning the training of Army officers, but are political and moral, made outside of their duties as officers. Please become better informed on the kinds of "criticism" that exist. Yingling consistantly holds positions that are not those of Watada and Wright, who you note as against the Iraq War. Yingling is not against the Iraq War, and you should cease implying that is his political position. Research better, and read Yingling's articles, and look into his connections to both Nagl and Petraeus. Perhaps you will then understand this... finer point. Paganolive 05:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom after his retirement from the United States Army he became a think tank policy expert and a university professor and has since became known for his outspoken criticism of the Iraq War. When you disagree with a policy you are against it, there is no in between. LTC Yingling by speaking out against his superior officers direction is against the Iraq War that is being fought right now. Just like any officer that critizes openly in public and does not use their chain of command if they have any suggestions that might assist their commanders in a successful mission.( Bnguyen 12:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC))
Colonel Ann Wright before retirement from the United States Army spoke out against the initial entrance of US forces into Iraq. She was well aware of the consequences and now LTC Yingling after the fact blames it on his current leadership. General Petreaus's stradegy is a book "technique" that LTC Yingling believes should had been used earlier? That is UTTER NONESENSE. LTC Yingling was in the position to be heard through his chain of command in Iraq. He was not behind a desk back in the United States or in a military base located in Europe or Asia.
LTC Yingling served two tours in the Iraq War, first as executive officer of 2nd Battalion, 18th Field Artillery in OIF 1, and later as the effects coordinator for the 3rd ACR from March 2005 to March 2006, during OIF III.
His idea is anti-war to the effort for not using his chain of command through the proper channels, which is a dishonor as a member of the military of the United States of America.
LTC Yingling falls into the same category as Colonel Ann Wright, Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom and First Lieutenant Ehren Watada of using the public forum to make statements against their military chain of command which is anti-war. Bnguyen 17:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Mmx1 20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
-The chain of command is not bizzare, it is an institution of the military by using your chain of command to seek redress. A person in the military to follow protocol by the laws of the military. It is called Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).
-Your statement that LTC Yingling is trying to reform the military with his ideas is mis-informed he was on the planning with an U.S. unit during the war.
Yingling was a division planner with 2nd Infantry Division prior to his deployment to OIF I as a battalion executive officer. In OIF I, his unit was tasked with collecting enemy ammunition and training the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps. On his second deployment to Iraq, as the effects coordinator, he was responsible for information operations, public affairs, psychological operations, civil affairs, and Iraqi Security Forces development.
-All of a sudden a division planner as LTC Yingling is blaming now the Generals? He was in the position to use his chain of command.
-LTC Yingling falls into the same category as Colonel Ann Wright, Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom and First Lieutenant Ehren Watada of using the public forum to make statements against their military chain of command and is accoutable for all his actions by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Bnguyen 09:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court. Bnguyen 13:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Honestly, while Yingling may have done some things while serving the country, how is this anything other than a bunch a blathering about the biography of someone who wrote a few articles equivalent to a college newspaper?
Is this bandwidth worthy?
$.02
-PY
To be honest, I'm frankly shocked that anyone would consider this entry non-notable. LTC Yingling made quite a bit of turbulence both in the military and in the political establishment with his writings. He's been featured numerous times not only in military publications, but also general circulation papers such as the New York Times (most recently on June 28). He is widely regarded in the US Army as the type of officer Gen. Petreaus has been trying to cultivate. I really can't see any justification for removing him for "non-notability." Severnjc ( talk) 17:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Your basing the decision not to delete this BLP on the number of Google hits? How absurd. My website has gotten 2000 hits this month alone and it's incredibly specialized to a small target audience!
Please look at the arguments for notability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability/Arguments and look at this without the rose colored glasses.
Put yourself in my shoes for a moment - I'm about to publish a book unrelated to this, but this is bad press. Should I have a BLP on wiki about me? NO! I've done as much as this fella, but am not conceited enough to think that it warrants attention. In the large scope of things this guys actions are only significant to a limited few and will be limited in duration of time.
Therefore, because of the short term interest in the information, it really would not have merit when compared to the guidelines of notability.
-PY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.104.219 ( talk) 17:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah, i see. He was notable when Bnguyen tried to smear him as an anti-war officer, but now that it's been established that he's merely pushing similar arguments to Petraeus and Nagl he's nothing special and should be deleted. Makes complete sense. -- Mmx1 ( talk) 19:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
LTC Yingling, whom I know personally, is an intelligent, thoughtful man. His words count because he is who he is. A standout among his peers, who has taken setbacks due to his chosen path, LTC Yingling chose to do something which will probably not benefit himself. Though I may not completely agree with what LTC Yingling wrote, he posed his thoughts in a journal which would make the Army think about what it has done and where it is going. A father, a husband, a career officer, a volunteer coach, and everything else he is, he wrote what he thought, at his own risk. Not for grandeur, but just because he thought it. When a professional organization can't look upon what it is with a critical eye, it may no longer be able to make itself relevant. Is he guilty of actions unbecoming? IMO. absolutely not. He has staged a suggestion ready for comment for an organization that prides itself on its ability to learn and change. If an up-and-coming leader cannot do such things, then our taxpayers should be leary. Otherwise, read what he said, determine what it means, and make an informed, educated jab at what needs to happen next.
LTC Bill Allen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billallen65 ( talk • contribs) 08:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
LTC Allen:
Thanks for continuing the conversation. One of the aspects I have been trying to resolve on this BLP is to further identify the BLP by including a middle name in the title. The reason for this is that there are others with the same name who are doing other things unrelated to the military. As you know publicity can make or break a cause, and my goal stems from this very fact.
Would you be so kind to modify the BLP to include Yingling's middle name or initial in order to accurately reflect the BLP and whom the information contained herein applies to?
The reason I also ask is because I am not very savvy with the modification of wiki information and wouldn't want to mess things up.
Thanks -
PY
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Paul Yingling is not a war protestor or anti-war activist. Please do your research on this matter, whoever keeps linking him to those who hold those positions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paganolive ( talk • contribs) 02:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
LTC Paul Yingling is an active duty officer that critized the war in Iraq, that is a fact from his research. He critized highter rank officers of their duties, while he was on active duty. Just like active duty officer First Lieutenant Ehren Watada critized the war in Iraq, but 1LT Watada has stated that he would volunteer to goto Afganistan if sent and would volunteer if allowed to serve in Southwest Asia. Futhermore, Colonel Ann Wright while she was on a member of the Reserves just like LTC Paul Yingling used their position to critized the war in Iraq and she just like LTC Paul Yingling did it publicly in the media. Bnguyen 04:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Your error lies in the difference between criticism of continued US military presense in Iraq or the invasion (your two links) and Yingling's articles, notice plural. Yingling does not criticise the presense of the US military in Iraq, only the strategies pursued by unnamed American generals. Yingling's advocacy of institutional change in the Army is made towards improving the American military's position in Iraq, and he offers no political opinion or moral judgement. Watada and Wright's criticism are not ones concerning the training of Army officers, but are political and moral, made outside of their duties as officers. Please become better informed on the kinds of "criticism" that exist. Yingling consistantly holds positions that are not those of Watada and Wright, who you note as against the Iraq War. Yingling is not against the Iraq War, and you should cease implying that is his political position. Research better, and read Yingling's articles, and look into his connections to both Nagl and Petraeus. Perhaps you will then understand this... finer point. Paganolive 05:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom after his retirement from the United States Army he became a think tank policy expert and a university professor and has since became known for his outspoken criticism of the Iraq War. When you disagree with a policy you are against it, there is no in between. LTC Yingling by speaking out against his superior officers direction is against the Iraq War that is being fought right now. Just like any officer that critizes openly in public and does not use their chain of command if they have any suggestions that might assist their commanders in a successful mission.( Bnguyen 12:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC))
Colonel Ann Wright before retirement from the United States Army spoke out against the initial entrance of US forces into Iraq. She was well aware of the consequences and now LTC Yingling after the fact blames it on his current leadership. General Petreaus's stradegy is a book "technique" that LTC Yingling believes should had been used earlier? That is UTTER NONESENSE. LTC Yingling was in the position to be heard through his chain of command in Iraq. He was not behind a desk back in the United States or in a military base located in Europe or Asia.
LTC Yingling served two tours in the Iraq War, first as executive officer of 2nd Battalion, 18th Field Artillery in OIF 1, and later as the effects coordinator for the 3rd ACR from March 2005 to March 2006, during OIF III.
His idea is anti-war to the effort for not using his chain of command through the proper channels, which is a dishonor as a member of the military of the United States of America.
LTC Yingling falls into the same category as Colonel Ann Wright, Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom and First Lieutenant Ehren Watada of using the public forum to make statements against their military chain of command which is anti-war. Bnguyen 17:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Mmx1 20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
-The chain of command is not bizzare, it is an institution of the military by using your chain of command to seek redress. A person in the military to follow protocol by the laws of the military. It is called Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).
-Your statement that LTC Yingling is trying to reform the military with his ideas is mis-informed he was on the planning with an U.S. unit during the war.
Yingling was a division planner with 2nd Infantry Division prior to his deployment to OIF I as a battalion executive officer. In OIF I, his unit was tasked with collecting enemy ammunition and training the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps. On his second deployment to Iraq, as the effects coordinator, he was responsible for information operations, public affairs, psychological operations, civil affairs, and Iraqi Security Forces development.
-All of a sudden a division planner as LTC Yingling is blaming now the Generals? He was in the position to use his chain of command.
-LTC Yingling falls into the same category as Colonel Ann Wright, Lieutenant General William Eldridge Odom and First Lieutenant Ehren Watada of using the public forum to make statements against their military chain of command and is accoutable for all his actions by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Bnguyen 09:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court. Bnguyen 13:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Honestly, while Yingling may have done some things while serving the country, how is this anything other than a bunch a blathering about the biography of someone who wrote a few articles equivalent to a college newspaper?
Is this bandwidth worthy?
$.02
-PY
To be honest, I'm frankly shocked that anyone would consider this entry non-notable. LTC Yingling made quite a bit of turbulence both in the military and in the political establishment with his writings. He's been featured numerous times not only in military publications, but also general circulation papers such as the New York Times (most recently on June 28). He is widely regarded in the US Army as the type of officer Gen. Petreaus has been trying to cultivate. I really can't see any justification for removing him for "non-notability." Severnjc ( talk) 17:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Your basing the decision not to delete this BLP on the number of Google hits? How absurd. My website has gotten 2000 hits this month alone and it's incredibly specialized to a small target audience!
Please look at the arguments for notability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability/Arguments and look at this without the rose colored glasses.
Put yourself in my shoes for a moment - I'm about to publish a book unrelated to this, but this is bad press. Should I have a BLP on wiki about me? NO! I've done as much as this fella, but am not conceited enough to think that it warrants attention. In the large scope of things this guys actions are only significant to a limited few and will be limited in duration of time.
Therefore, because of the short term interest in the information, it really would not have merit when compared to the guidelines of notability.
-PY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.104.219 ( talk) 17:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah, i see. He was notable when Bnguyen tried to smear him as an anti-war officer, but now that it's been established that he's merely pushing similar arguments to Petraeus and Nagl he's nothing special and should be deleted. Makes complete sense. -- Mmx1 ( talk) 19:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
LTC Yingling, whom I know personally, is an intelligent, thoughtful man. His words count because he is who he is. A standout among his peers, who has taken setbacks due to his chosen path, LTC Yingling chose to do something which will probably not benefit himself. Though I may not completely agree with what LTC Yingling wrote, he posed his thoughts in a journal which would make the Army think about what it has done and where it is going. A father, a husband, a career officer, a volunteer coach, and everything else he is, he wrote what he thought, at his own risk. Not for grandeur, but just because he thought it. When a professional organization can't look upon what it is with a critical eye, it may no longer be able to make itself relevant. Is he guilty of actions unbecoming? IMO. absolutely not. He has staged a suggestion ready for comment for an organization that prides itself on its ability to learn and change. If an up-and-coming leader cannot do such things, then our taxpayers should be leary. Otherwise, read what he said, determine what it means, and make an informed, educated jab at what needs to happen next.
LTC Bill Allen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billallen65 ( talk • contribs) 08:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
LTC Allen:
Thanks for continuing the conversation. One of the aspects I have been trying to resolve on this BLP is to further identify the BLP by including a middle name in the title. The reason for this is that there are others with the same name who are doing other things unrelated to the military. As you know publicity can make or break a cause, and my goal stems from this very fact.
Would you be so kind to modify the BLP to include Yingling's middle name or initial in order to accurately reflect the BLP and whom the information contained herein applies to?
The reason I also ask is because I am not very savvy with the modification of wiki information and wouldn't want to mess things up.
Thanks -
PY