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Valery:
This man is a sleeping giant of world civilization. Why is he so little appreciated nowadays?
Someone nicely upgraded the Biography section. And thus I learned today that he was related by marriage to Berthe Morisot. To my knowledge, there is no biography of Valery in any language.
I have what can perhaps be an ignorant quibble with the line that says "fiction (poetry, drama and dialogues)"... is poetry considered fiction? If not, how can that line be salvaged/reapaired?
Hello, I am looking for a an English/French edition of Valery. Does anyone know if one exists?
There has been a little wrangling recently about whether Valéry is to be called a philosopher. I say he is; or rather, I say that this is a reasonable category in which to include him, and one that reveals how he has been regarded, especially by the French. There is no objective and common definition of philosopher that would settle the matter, but it is useful to appeal to the literature concerning Valéry. Here are some readily available sources that give evidence:
On this evidence, which is only what falls to hand readily, I am reinstating the classification of Valéry as a philosopher. If anyone wants to remove it, let them bring evidence of equal or greater weight to bear. – Noetica 00:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, dear Chrisdel. Nice to be appreciated when one makes an effort. – Noetica 11:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for spelling out your position in such detail, Noetica. I concede there is a case to be made that Valéry has been regarded as a philosopher by some. I do, however, continue to think that characterizing him as such is misleading. An encyclopaedia article ought not to put tendentious interpretations on such a term as 'philosopher', as newcomers to Valéry consulting Wikipedia as a first port of call will not necessarily have your erudite knowledge of the issues. Many writers have written on philosophical themes; and many theses written about 'X the philosopher', where X is not a philosopher in any standard sense. I hardly think that the statements by T.S. Eliot or Régine Pietra make very much of a case for seeing Valéry as a philosopher to be mentioned along with Rousseau and Sartre. On the Encyclopaedia Britannica point, the edition which has been around since the 70s doesn't call him a philosopher, only a 'poet, essayist, and critic'; I'd be interested to know which edition you consulted. Spontini 00:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
If only you had mentioned before that the philosopher Derrida mentions him 'in the same breath' with Husserl and Heidegger. That really clinches it. Spontini 19:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
After saying "His far more ample prose writings, peppered with many aphorisms and bons mots, reveal a conservative and skeptical outlook on human nature, verging on the cynical," the article continues, "However, he never said or wrote anything giving aid or comfort to any form of totalitarianism popular during his lifetime."
Is it to be expected that a person with a "conservative and skeptical outlook on human nature" is likely to support totalitarianism? That second sentence seems pointless. I'm not deleting it because I don't know anything about the man, and perhaps there is some reason for it that I'm not getting, but it is distinctly odd. 74.103.120.202 ( talk) 19:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't know about the opinion of most others, but in claiming Valéry is a polymath I would refer simply and straightforwardly to his "accomplishments" or his "expertise" rather than interests. "Interests" is almost a jest, and makes it sound as though he is a dilettante. It is acceptable for academics today to refer to their competencies or specializations as interests, up to a point, but that is only in speaking casually or at an early phase of one's career. Cdg1072 ( talk) 04:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
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From a Borges lecture: "What I’ve been told about Valery is that during his final years he was not a wealthy man, and he devoted his time to creating false manuscripts of his own poems. That is, he wrote a poem, used any old adjective, then crossed it out and put in the real one. The adjective that he first wrote, he had invented in order to correct it. Or, he would sell manuscripts in which he changed a few words and then didn’t correct them so they would look like drafts." Ghirla -трёп- 22:23, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Valery:
This man is a sleeping giant of world civilization. Why is he so little appreciated nowadays?
Someone nicely upgraded the Biography section. And thus I learned today that he was related by marriage to Berthe Morisot. To my knowledge, there is no biography of Valery in any language.
I have what can perhaps be an ignorant quibble with the line that says "fiction (poetry, drama and dialogues)"... is poetry considered fiction? If not, how can that line be salvaged/reapaired?
Hello, I am looking for a an English/French edition of Valery. Does anyone know if one exists?
There has been a little wrangling recently about whether Valéry is to be called a philosopher. I say he is; or rather, I say that this is a reasonable category in which to include him, and one that reveals how he has been regarded, especially by the French. There is no objective and common definition of philosopher that would settle the matter, but it is useful to appeal to the literature concerning Valéry. Here are some readily available sources that give evidence:
On this evidence, which is only what falls to hand readily, I am reinstating the classification of Valéry as a philosopher. If anyone wants to remove it, let them bring evidence of equal or greater weight to bear. – Noetica 00:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, dear Chrisdel. Nice to be appreciated when one makes an effort. – Noetica 11:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for spelling out your position in such detail, Noetica. I concede there is a case to be made that Valéry has been regarded as a philosopher by some. I do, however, continue to think that characterizing him as such is misleading. An encyclopaedia article ought not to put tendentious interpretations on such a term as 'philosopher', as newcomers to Valéry consulting Wikipedia as a first port of call will not necessarily have your erudite knowledge of the issues. Many writers have written on philosophical themes; and many theses written about 'X the philosopher', where X is not a philosopher in any standard sense. I hardly think that the statements by T.S. Eliot or Régine Pietra make very much of a case for seeing Valéry as a philosopher to be mentioned along with Rousseau and Sartre. On the Encyclopaedia Britannica point, the edition which has been around since the 70s doesn't call him a philosopher, only a 'poet, essayist, and critic'; I'd be interested to know which edition you consulted. Spontini 00:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
If only you had mentioned before that the philosopher Derrida mentions him 'in the same breath' with Husserl and Heidegger. That really clinches it. Spontini 19:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
After saying "His far more ample prose writings, peppered with many aphorisms and bons mots, reveal a conservative and skeptical outlook on human nature, verging on the cynical," the article continues, "However, he never said or wrote anything giving aid or comfort to any form of totalitarianism popular during his lifetime."
Is it to be expected that a person with a "conservative and skeptical outlook on human nature" is likely to support totalitarianism? That second sentence seems pointless. I'm not deleting it because I don't know anything about the man, and perhaps there is some reason for it that I'm not getting, but it is distinctly odd. 74.103.120.202 ( talk) 19:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't know about the opinion of most others, but in claiming Valéry is a polymath I would refer simply and straightforwardly to his "accomplishments" or his "expertise" rather than interests. "Interests" is almost a jest, and makes it sound as though he is a dilettante. It is acceptable for academics today to refer to their competencies or specializations as interests, up to a point, but that is only in speaking casually or at an early phase of one's career. Cdg1072 ( talk) 04:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Paul Valéry. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
From a Borges lecture: "What I’ve been told about Valery is that during his final years he was not a wealthy man, and he devoted his time to creating false manuscripts of his own poems. That is, he wrote a poem, used any old adjective, then crossed it out and put in the real one. The adjective that he first wrote, he had invented in order to correct it. Or, he would sell manuscripts in which he changed a few words and then didn’t correct them so they would look like drafts." Ghirla -трёп- 22:23, 9 January 2020 (UTC)