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I question the claim that Patrick Francis was a "black" Jesuit and later a "black" college president. I also question the claim that James Augustine was the first "African American" Bishop. Their photographs show no sign of African features. Furthermore, there is overwhelming first-hand evidence that these men (as well as Patrick Francis's brothers Michael Morris Healy, Jr. and Alexander Sherwood Healy and their sister) saw themselves as White, nothing more. They were accepted as White by their society of the time. They left numerous written documents to this effect, and even the sea-captain’s teen-aged son once scratched his name on a remote rock above the Arctic Circle during an exploration voyage as “the first white boy” to have visited the region.
The notion that a person who self-identifies as White, was raised as White, and looks White, is "really Black" in some invisible intangible way due merely to an acknowledged trace of Black ancestry is a modern notion that became widespread in U.S. popular culture only around the turn of the 20th century. The notion the Healys were "really Black" in some sense would have been as bizarre to them as it would have been to Alexander Hamilton, John James Audubon, Alessandro de Medici, Queen Charlotte, or Florida's first U.S. senator, David Levy Yulee, who led the state into secession.
If the goal is to shed a favorable light on America's mixed heritage, then the goal could easily be met by re-wording to say that "they were among the first <bishop, college president, Coast guard captain, whatever> to openly acknowledge African ancestry." Acknowledging a trace of African ancestry is a very different thing from adopting an African-American or Black ethnic self-identity.
I am not sure whether this is a POV problem or simply one of factual inaccuracy, but I would be grateful if someone could address it. In short, the article applies the 20th-century one-drop rule of "racial" self-identity to people who would have ridiculed the notion and who clearly self-identitified ethnically as Irish-American. -- Frank W Sweet 15:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This is a very deep question about racial identity, not really a useful subject for a very specific biographical page. Probably it ought to be taken up on a page that discusses race or perhaps race in the United States. I think it would be fine to say that they had "African-American ancestry" or "African-American roots" rather than to say baldly that they were African-Americans. But given the one-drop rule in common use in the United States at the time, they certainly suffered under some social handicap. And the proof of this is that the Society chose to send Fr. Healy to seminary and to ordain him in Belgium, where different rules applied. The first African-American to be ordained in the United States, Fr. Augustine Tolton, had a very rough time of it. -- Stewart king ( talk) 22:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
--- In fact, this wikipedia entry downplays the impact ancestry had on the Healys' lives. The African ancestry of Sherwood and James Healy was well known in their South Boston parish and overcoming this was one of James Healy's triumphs. The move of the Healy children to Holy Cross College and Massachusetts from New York was sparked by race issues. Their schooling in New York had been unpleasant because of their second class status and the fugitive slave laws were a threat. Michael Healy ran away from Holy Cross more than once because of taunting by his schoolmates; his brother Patrick then a prefect at the college regretted not doing more to stop it. A chapter in James Healy's biography is titled "The Bishop is a [N-word]" and discusses bigotry that Healy encountered and overcame as Bishop of Portland. James Healy only acknowledged one identity: "We are all one in Christ." Michael Healy's problems during his unhappy later years in the Coast Guard were tainted with racial animus. Moreover: the Healy family has been a part of widely known public history at least since Michener wrote about Michael Healy in Alaska back in 1988. -- Jim McManus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.41.151 ( talk) 16:16, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia pages for other Catholic priests sometimes have their titles and religious order given in the first sentence--i.e. 'The Most Rev Patrick Francis Healy S.J. was the 29th president"--I'm wondering if that's appropriate here?
Also, I think given his stature, it would be appropriate to have his ordination information and dates in his infobox--I'm not sure where to get that info though. Jx242 ( talk) 18:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:48, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
"Healy was at first unable to find a school in the north that would accept his children, resulting from anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigotry."
This needs a proper reference as it sounds absurd. St. Peter's Parish School was founded in lower Manhattan in 1800. St. Patrick's Cathedral School was opened in 1817. By 1850 there was an entire system of Catholic schools in NY City. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 06:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
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Patrick Francis Healy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Patrick Francis Healy is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Patrick Francis Healy is part of the Presidents of Georgetown University series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 27, 2022. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I question the claim that Patrick Francis was a "black" Jesuit and later a "black" college president. I also question the claim that James Augustine was the first "African American" Bishop. Their photographs show no sign of African features. Furthermore, there is overwhelming first-hand evidence that these men (as well as Patrick Francis's brothers Michael Morris Healy, Jr. and Alexander Sherwood Healy and their sister) saw themselves as White, nothing more. They were accepted as White by their society of the time. They left numerous written documents to this effect, and even the sea-captain’s teen-aged son once scratched his name on a remote rock above the Arctic Circle during an exploration voyage as “the first white boy” to have visited the region.
The notion that a person who self-identifies as White, was raised as White, and looks White, is "really Black" in some invisible intangible way due merely to an acknowledged trace of Black ancestry is a modern notion that became widespread in U.S. popular culture only around the turn of the 20th century. The notion the Healys were "really Black" in some sense would have been as bizarre to them as it would have been to Alexander Hamilton, John James Audubon, Alessandro de Medici, Queen Charlotte, or Florida's first U.S. senator, David Levy Yulee, who led the state into secession.
If the goal is to shed a favorable light on America's mixed heritage, then the goal could easily be met by re-wording to say that "they were among the first <bishop, college president, Coast guard captain, whatever> to openly acknowledge African ancestry." Acknowledging a trace of African ancestry is a very different thing from adopting an African-American or Black ethnic self-identity.
I am not sure whether this is a POV problem or simply one of factual inaccuracy, but I would be grateful if someone could address it. In short, the article applies the 20th-century one-drop rule of "racial" self-identity to people who would have ridiculed the notion and who clearly self-identitified ethnically as Irish-American. -- Frank W Sweet 15:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This is a very deep question about racial identity, not really a useful subject for a very specific biographical page. Probably it ought to be taken up on a page that discusses race or perhaps race in the United States. I think it would be fine to say that they had "African-American ancestry" or "African-American roots" rather than to say baldly that they were African-Americans. But given the one-drop rule in common use in the United States at the time, they certainly suffered under some social handicap. And the proof of this is that the Society chose to send Fr. Healy to seminary and to ordain him in Belgium, where different rules applied. The first African-American to be ordained in the United States, Fr. Augustine Tolton, had a very rough time of it. -- Stewart king ( talk) 22:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
--- In fact, this wikipedia entry downplays the impact ancestry had on the Healys' lives. The African ancestry of Sherwood and James Healy was well known in their South Boston parish and overcoming this was one of James Healy's triumphs. The move of the Healy children to Holy Cross College and Massachusetts from New York was sparked by race issues. Their schooling in New York had been unpleasant because of their second class status and the fugitive slave laws were a threat. Michael Healy ran away from Holy Cross more than once because of taunting by his schoolmates; his brother Patrick then a prefect at the college regretted not doing more to stop it. A chapter in James Healy's biography is titled "The Bishop is a [N-word]" and discusses bigotry that Healy encountered and overcame as Bishop of Portland. James Healy only acknowledged one identity: "We are all one in Christ." Michael Healy's problems during his unhappy later years in the Coast Guard were tainted with racial animus. Moreover: the Healy family has been a part of widely known public history at least since Michener wrote about Michael Healy in Alaska back in 1988. -- Jim McManus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.41.151 ( talk) 16:16, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia pages for other Catholic priests sometimes have their titles and religious order given in the first sentence--i.e. 'The Most Rev Patrick Francis Healy S.J. was the 29th president"--I'm wondering if that's appropriate here?
Also, I think given his stature, it would be appropriate to have his ordination information and dates in his infobox--I'm not sure where to get that info though. Jx242 ( talk) 18:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Patrick Francis Healy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:48, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
"Healy was at first unable to find a school in the north that would accept his children, resulting from anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigotry."
This needs a proper reference as it sounds absurd. St. Peter's Parish School was founded in lower Manhattan in 1800. St. Patrick's Cathedral School was opened in 1817. By 1850 there was an entire system of Catholic schools in NY City. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 06:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)