![]() | The contents of the Passion cantata page were merged into Passion (music) on 11 November 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Just an FYI...
I eliminated the mention of Handel in the "Protestant music" section because Handel only wrote one true Oratorio (the Brockes-Passion). His so-called "Oratorios" did not follow the Schűtz/Carasimi model, but rather fit a new mold. Even during his lifetime, he never (and no one ever really did either) referred to these works as Oratorios, but rather "Entertainments" or "Sacred dramas" or the like. In fact, the majority (with the exception of Messiah) of Handels "Oratorio"s do not use Scripture at all, but rather contemporary or earlier poetry (such as Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained for Samson, etc.). -- Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 05:08, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I just proposed to merge Passion cantata into this article. A main problem with the current split is that when wanting to refer to the broader context when writing something about a Passion Oratorio (like Bach's Passions or the Brockes Passion, or the St Mark Passion pastiche) neither article satisfies as a link: this article doesn't explain Passion cantata, while the other article equates it with Passion Oratorio – as for treatment of the Oratorio, the bulk of the articles overlap... I don't see a separate Passion cantata article as impossible (and the same for a separate Passion Oratorio article) but for the time being there is no "length" issue or whatever to merge the content of both articles into one until there's enough content to split off a separate article on the cantata variant (which for Bach's would only include the early versions of his Pasticcios, and should not have Passion oratorio redirecting to it) and/or on the Oratorio variant (which should contain no examples before the early 18th century except to explain the connection with prior Passion music). -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
I think, rather, that it should be outlined and linked to this page (just like other articles where the main articles are elsewhere).-- Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 22:14, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
I didn't understand what was meant by "...it should be outlined and linked to this page..." (@ Dgljr5121973 and Finnusertop: could you please explain?), but it surely hasn't happened yet: both articles have a different POV, thus are WP:POV FORKs of one another. Unless that policy breach is remedied, the best option continues to be to merge both articles, so I'm rebooting the merge discussion until issues are settled one way or another. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 11:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I note that Francis Schonken has deleted most of the Passion cantata content without waiting for a consensus discussion here; a matter of minutes or hours isn't sufficient to establish consensus. I've already reverse this change once; perhaps someone else could have a look. Gerda Arendt or others perhasp? Klbrain ( talk) 16:34, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Passion cantata could also be turned into a redirect to List of church cantatas by liturgical occasion#Good Friday — any objections to that? -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 11:51, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Passion Conferences has a music branch called Passion Music. It has many famous contemporary Christian singers like Chris Tomlin, Kristian Stanfill, etc. on it so I think that it would do good to move the redirect to there. If anyone is opposed to this feel free to undo and let me know why. Awsomaw ( talk) 14:06, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
![]() | The contents of the Passion cantata page were merged into Passion (music) on 11 November 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Just an FYI...
I eliminated the mention of Handel in the "Protestant music" section because Handel only wrote one true Oratorio (the Brockes-Passion). His so-called "Oratorios" did not follow the Schűtz/Carasimi model, but rather fit a new mold. Even during his lifetime, he never (and no one ever really did either) referred to these works as Oratorios, but rather "Entertainments" or "Sacred dramas" or the like. In fact, the majority (with the exception of Messiah) of Handels "Oratorio"s do not use Scripture at all, but rather contemporary or earlier poetry (such as Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained for Samson, etc.). -- Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 05:08, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I just proposed to merge Passion cantata into this article. A main problem with the current split is that when wanting to refer to the broader context when writing something about a Passion Oratorio (like Bach's Passions or the Brockes Passion, or the St Mark Passion pastiche) neither article satisfies as a link: this article doesn't explain Passion cantata, while the other article equates it with Passion Oratorio – as for treatment of the Oratorio, the bulk of the articles overlap... I don't see a separate Passion cantata article as impossible (and the same for a separate Passion Oratorio article) but for the time being there is no "length" issue or whatever to merge the content of both articles into one until there's enough content to split off a separate article on the cantata variant (which for Bach's would only include the early versions of his Pasticcios, and should not have Passion oratorio redirecting to it) and/or on the Oratorio variant (which should contain no examples before the early 18th century except to explain the connection with prior Passion music). -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
I think, rather, that it should be outlined and linked to this page (just like other articles where the main articles are elsewhere).-- Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 22:14, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
I didn't understand what was meant by "...it should be outlined and linked to this page..." (@ Dgljr5121973 and Finnusertop: could you please explain?), but it surely hasn't happened yet: both articles have a different POV, thus are WP:POV FORKs of one another. Unless that policy breach is remedied, the best option continues to be to merge both articles, so I'm rebooting the merge discussion until issues are settled one way or another. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 11:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I note that Francis Schonken has deleted most of the Passion cantata content without waiting for a consensus discussion here; a matter of minutes or hours isn't sufficient to establish consensus. I've already reverse this change once; perhaps someone else could have a look. Gerda Arendt or others perhasp? Klbrain ( talk) 16:34, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Passion cantata could also be turned into a redirect to List of church cantatas by liturgical occasion#Good Friday — any objections to that? -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 11:51, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Passion Conferences has a music branch called Passion Music. It has many famous contemporary Christian singers like Chris Tomlin, Kristian Stanfill, etc. on it so I think that it would do good to move the redirect to there. If anyone is opposed to this feel free to undo and let me know why. Awsomaw ( talk) 14:06, 26 December 2018 (UTC)