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I would call in Kapsberger or Piccinini discussing the Passacaglia. Perhaps the Francois Couperin to give the ultimate example (instead of J.S. Bach) but Brahms c.s. is from another era.
Sorry, I didn't intend to make the list of 20th century examples so long, but one example after another popped into my head and it got out of hand… My intention was to show that the passacaglia didn't die with Brahms' 4th! I'm too close to it now and can't see how to proceed; please feel free to prune. I feel strongly that we should not have a see also List of passacaglias.
I think the Webern, Shostakovich, Britten, and Lutoslawski give the finest and most encyclopedic examples mentioned. Rather than a list, perhaps it would be better to have a paragraph outlining these composers' use of the form? -- RobertG ♬ talk 15:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
I believe the La Follia theme might have been used in the soundtrack for Kubrick's Barry Lyndon. Edit: On second thought, maybe not. -- Pangloss
I'm a music enthusiast and noticed the same timing on a known Passacaglia with the piece from Solaris but I think it's an accurate characterization even if it's not explicitly mentioned as such, it would seem to fit the technical definition.
I have noticed over the past couple of days two attempts by anonymous editors to capitalize the German form of the term "passacaglia". These have been reverted by other editors, presumably because no explanation was given for the change. I have now once again capitalized the German word, with the explanation that, like all German nouns, Passacaglia must be capitalized. However, what those other editors did not seem to notice is that the word had a typo in it: the 'g' was omitted. Apart from capitalization, the German term (which can easily be checked on the parallel German Wikipedia article) is identical with the Italian form, which is also adopted into English.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 17:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The section seems to be well referenced, but it certainly is very, very odd. I don't have any of the articles cited, but here's a list of oddities I found:
I'd start rewriting the article immediately, but seeing how everything is cited, I'm reluctant to change anything without first discussing things here. I believe we should model this article after Silbiger's Grove article: a smoothly flowing text detailing the history of the form, not a two-section article with "History" and "Composers" separated. -- Jashiin ( talk) 15:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, I've rearranged the first section of the article, leaving most of the material intact. I think it's much tighter now than before. I temporarily commented out Fischer's comments on the French practice, I think they'll work better in a discussion of French passacaglias later on. I've also commented out the bit about the melodic pattern serving as a harmonic anchor, and the upper voices being varied freely, because this is essentially an explanation of what an ostinato-based composition is, and is already given in the text. Oh, and I've also commented out the list of modern examples, as you suggested. Now going to work on this further. -- Jashiin ( talk) 12:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The finale of Brahms' 4th Symphony is not a passacaglia, but a chaconne. Its bass is not repeated, just the harmonic "chassis". There is a note on this affirmation (n. 9), but this own note has no extern citation. I'll remove it (it's also incoherent, becaus in Chaconne article it cites this movement). -- Leonardo T. Oliveira ( talk) 21:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I see that anonymous contributor 98.207.63.92 has restored three items from the fairly indiscriminate list of fifty or so pieces recently put in limbo by Jashiin, pending discussion concerning which if any should be restored. The Ronald Stevenson example in particular seems doubtful by comparison to suppressed items by, for instance, Shostakovich, and I cannot seem to find the discussion here wherein consensus was reached that these three examples and no others should be restored. I am therefore reverting the addition.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 16:53, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
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In case anyone comes here looking, I have added the passacaglia from Stravinsky's Septet, assuming that the stature of this composer put this inclusion beyond any doubt. If this is one 20th-century passacaglia too many, then I suggest a lesser composer be bumped instead, and invite nominations: Hindemith? Shostakovich? Berg?— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Must they explicitly be titled "Passacaglia"? If not, and when it comes to sheer output, Philip Glass seems to be a serious contender: Satyagraha: 1st scene [1] (on the Andalusian cadence!), Akhnaten: Prelude [2], Einstein on the Beach: Knee Plays [3], Violin Concerto: Second movement [4], Symphony No. 8, (I think there are more, but I've run out of examples from the top of my head...) If I remember correctly (I read the book 20 years ago!), he mentions the passacaglia form as a favorite in "Music by Philip Glass". I think he at least deserves an "honorable mention" for repeatedly using the passacaglia form in a different composition "school". -- megA ( talk) 11:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
In response to User:Hyacinth's request, I have added an image of a page from Bernardo Storace's Selva di varie compositione. Was this the right idea, or was a photograph of a performance of a passacaglia desired? In any case, there was already a manuscript page from Bach further down the page, but it looks odd to have an illustration there and not at the head.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
I am surprised that the article accepts this modern term without comment. In 17c. sources the Italian term is usually plural, passacagli or passacaglio in the singular. The Spanish is pasacalles. Where does the word Passacaglia come from? I expect the term originated with ill-informed Germans, yet even for famous German works by Buxtehude and J.S. Bach, the sources read passacaglio as in the illustration of the Bach score! I don't recommend renaming the article, since the modern term is better known, but I would like to know when composers began using this term. I should also like to see more on the connection with the Spanish guitar, and the Alfabeto sources. Finn Froding ( talk) 15:50, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of legible passacaglia with a bass-ostinato and written in triple metre be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I would call in Kapsberger or Piccinini discussing the Passacaglia. Perhaps the Francois Couperin to give the ultimate example (instead of J.S. Bach) but Brahms c.s. is from another era.
Sorry, I didn't intend to make the list of 20th century examples so long, but one example after another popped into my head and it got out of hand… My intention was to show that the passacaglia didn't die with Brahms' 4th! I'm too close to it now and can't see how to proceed; please feel free to prune. I feel strongly that we should not have a see also List of passacaglias.
I think the Webern, Shostakovich, Britten, and Lutoslawski give the finest and most encyclopedic examples mentioned. Rather than a list, perhaps it would be better to have a paragraph outlining these composers' use of the form? -- RobertG ♬ talk 15:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
I believe the La Follia theme might have been used in the soundtrack for Kubrick's Barry Lyndon. Edit: On second thought, maybe not. -- Pangloss
I'm a music enthusiast and noticed the same timing on a known Passacaglia with the piece from Solaris but I think it's an accurate characterization even if it's not explicitly mentioned as such, it would seem to fit the technical definition.
I have noticed over the past couple of days two attempts by anonymous editors to capitalize the German form of the term "passacaglia". These have been reverted by other editors, presumably because no explanation was given for the change. I have now once again capitalized the German word, with the explanation that, like all German nouns, Passacaglia must be capitalized. However, what those other editors did not seem to notice is that the word had a typo in it: the 'g' was omitted. Apart from capitalization, the German term (which can easily be checked on the parallel German Wikipedia article) is identical with the Italian form, which is also adopted into English.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 17:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The section seems to be well referenced, but it certainly is very, very odd. I don't have any of the articles cited, but here's a list of oddities I found:
I'd start rewriting the article immediately, but seeing how everything is cited, I'm reluctant to change anything without first discussing things here. I believe we should model this article after Silbiger's Grove article: a smoothly flowing text detailing the history of the form, not a two-section article with "History" and "Composers" separated. -- Jashiin ( talk) 15:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, I've rearranged the first section of the article, leaving most of the material intact. I think it's much tighter now than before. I temporarily commented out Fischer's comments on the French practice, I think they'll work better in a discussion of French passacaglias later on. I've also commented out the bit about the melodic pattern serving as a harmonic anchor, and the upper voices being varied freely, because this is essentially an explanation of what an ostinato-based composition is, and is already given in the text. Oh, and I've also commented out the list of modern examples, as you suggested. Now going to work on this further. -- Jashiin ( talk) 12:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The finale of Brahms' 4th Symphony is not a passacaglia, but a chaconne. Its bass is not repeated, just the harmonic "chassis". There is a note on this affirmation (n. 9), but this own note has no extern citation. I'll remove it (it's also incoherent, becaus in Chaconne article it cites this movement). -- Leonardo T. Oliveira ( talk) 21:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I see that anonymous contributor 98.207.63.92 has restored three items from the fairly indiscriminate list of fifty or so pieces recently put in limbo by Jashiin, pending discussion concerning which if any should be restored. The Ronald Stevenson example in particular seems doubtful by comparison to suppressed items by, for instance, Shostakovich, and I cannot seem to find the discussion here wherein consensus was reached that these three examples and no others should be restored. I am therefore reverting the addition.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 16:53, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
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In case anyone comes here looking, I have added the passacaglia from Stravinsky's Septet, assuming that the stature of this composer put this inclusion beyond any doubt. If this is one 20th-century passacaglia too many, then I suggest a lesser composer be bumped instead, and invite nominations: Hindemith? Shostakovich? Berg?— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Must they explicitly be titled "Passacaglia"? If not, and when it comes to sheer output, Philip Glass seems to be a serious contender: Satyagraha: 1st scene [1] (on the Andalusian cadence!), Akhnaten: Prelude [2], Einstein on the Beach: Knee Plays [3], Violin Concerto: Second movement [4], Symphony No. 8, (I think there are more, but I've run out of examples from the top of my head...) If I remember correctly (I read the book 20 years ago!), he mentions the passacaglia form as a favorite in "Music by Philip Glass". I think he at least deserves an "honorable mention" for repeatedly using the passacaglia form in a different composition "school". -- megA ( talk) 11:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
In response to User:Hyacinth's request, I have added an image of a page from Bernardo Storace's Selva di varie compositione. Was this the right idea, or was a photograph of a performance of a passacaglia desired? In any case, there was already a manuscript page from Bach further down the page, but it looks odd to have an illustration there and not at the head.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
I am surprised that the article accepts this modern term without comment. In 17c. sources the Italian term is usually plural, passacagli or passacaglio in the singular. The Spanish is pasacalles. Where does the word Passacaglia come from? I expect the term originated with ill-informed Germans, yet even for famous German works by Buxtehude and J.S. Bach, the sources read passacaglio as in the illustration of the Bach score! I don't recommend renaming the article, since the modern term is better known, but I would like to know when composers began using this term. I should also like to see more on the connection with the Spanish guitar, and the Alfabeto sources. Finn Froding ( talk) 15:50, 19 May 2019 (UTC)