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Hi, I've expanded the article. But since I'm German (and actually live in Germany), I don't know if my is English is quite correct and idiomatic. So someone should check this article linguistically ;-) - Lysis 02:33 21. Jun 2004 (UTC)
Two phrases in the opening section of the article are ambiguous:
Jmabel 05:47, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
Our article currently says "In 1935, the Nazis exacerbated the law so that the police could pursue any homosexual act whatsoever (even an embrace or a kiss)." While I am aware that this was the actual Nazi policy, now that I've read and translated the 1935 statute, I see nothing in the text that gave sanction to that policy. This sentence predates my involvement in the article. Unless someone can give evidence for the statement as it stands, I intend to reword to make clear that the Nazi persecution of homosexuals went even beyond the harsh letter of the law. -- Jmabel 18:55, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll try to clarify that in the article itself. BTW, any chance you could help with that one sentence I've been unable to translate confidently & left in the original German? I'd pinged Carlo Ierna, but I guess he's not logged in for a while. -- Jmabel 06:57, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
can someone provide sources for the quotes. for example: According to the official rationale, Paragraph 175 was amended in the interest of the moral health of the Volk – the German people – because "according to experience" homosexuality "inclines toward plague-like propagation" and exerts "a ruinous influence" on the "circles concerned". Heyali 18:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Since I haven't actually seen this, and since it is mentioned only in passing, I didn't think this was appropriate to add to the references, but if anyone finds it useful, the Draft penal code (E 1962) was apparently translated into English and published. (The translation used in this article, however, is our own.)
Yes, the article dates the law from May 15, 1871, then calls May 17, 2002 the anniversary. I'm clueless, too. I translated this from the German. I've asked the obvious question on the German-language discussion page. -- Jmabel 06:57, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I've done my darnedest to translate this. In some places, my text doesn't follow the original German exactly. There are several reasons for this:
Jmabel 07:04, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
<moved from User talk:Jmabel> Hi Joe,
you've asked:
Theoretically yes, but read subsection 3 of the law:
Apparently, the government had sensed the absurdity that a 18-year-old could be found guilty for sex with someone under 21 years of age. This probably had to be the case, because 18 is the legal age of majority in the German law codes, and you mustn't treat an 18-year-old differently from any other grown-up person, at least from a principal point of view.
By the way, you are not the only one who is bewildered by that, but I've looked up the law text on different internet sites, and they all agree on that point. -- Amys 19:22, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
<end moved text>
I've added a paragraph to the article to address this overtly. -- Jmabel 22:20, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I took out the following paragraph, because, as we now know, the age of majority was 21 in 1969, so the formulation is somewhat mistaken:
I have also shortened "sex between a man older than 18 years with a man less than 21 years old", because this is very bewildering to the readers (I've done the same in the German article a few days ago). Since the law was only effective until 1973 (when the age of consent was lowered to 18), it isn't really an issue worthwhile being adressed in a whole paragraph. --
Amys 23:21, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is a little misunderstanding concerning the following issue:
"Sodomy" (Engl.) and "Sodomie" (German) don't mean the same. They are kind of "false friends". Few People in Germany actually know that "Sodomy" in the U.S. refers to "anal intercourse", because this meaning has been totally lost in their own language. If someone talks of "Sodomie" in German, he always means acts of zoophilia, and most would be quite amazed (perhaps even shocked ;-) that in other countries people understand this word in a different way. Compare the German entry to Sodomie. (The reference to the medieval and the international meaning of "sodomy" have been added just some weeks ago.) -- Amys 23:35, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Don't want to be demanding ;-), but the section about the German Empire (1871-1918) is missing from the English translation. Mmh. -- Amys 02:47, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
§ 182 StGB contains numerous terms without precise, clear legal definitions; critics have raised concerns that families can misuse this law to criminalize socially disapproved relations (for example, because they are homosexual). In Austria an analogous development was carried out by striking out § 209 StGB from the Austrian legal code and adopting § 207b StGB.
ad 1) Relationships that are disapproved bei the "Umfeld" (parents, relatives, ...), because they violate social norms (e.g. heterosexist ones).
ad 2) I think the passage about Austria (I haven't written it) wants to hint at the fact that the relation between the abolished § 175 and the potentially abusable § 182 is the same as that between the abolished § 209 StGB and the newly adopted § 207b StGB in the Austrian penal code. There was a major discussion on this topic in the German wikipedia, because we couldn't find out, if the § 182 was expanded the same time the § 175 was voided (which would suggest that it had a kind of surrogate function without explicitly mentioning homosexuality). Therefore, this paragraph is full of sinister allusions. And the passage about the Austrian code is probably one of these allusions (§ 207b StGB being a surrogate for § 209). -- Amys 20:32, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In the original German, at one point there is a note "RGSt 73, 78, 80 f". I now see that is not a footnote to one of the references given. Is it a reference to a statute book? Is there some same way to carry this information into the English-language article? Legal citations are generally a good addition. (And would this all be clear to a German-speaker, or does it deserve a link there as well?) -- Jmabel 08:32, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
Two passages that gave me enough trouble that I didn't even really try; Amys, can you help me?
"Am 1. Januar 1872 wurde aus dem exakt ein Jahr zuvor in Kraft getretenen Strafgesetzbuch des Norddeutschen Bunds das Strafgesetzbuch des Deutschen Reichs." I translated as "On January 1, 1872, the penal code of the North German Confederation became the penal code of the entire German Empire," which I believe is accurate as far as it goes, but I couldn't understand what is said to be a year after what else.
After the first mention of the WhK is the phrase "nun eine Honoratioren-Bewegung": what does that mean? -- Jmabel 08:49, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
but I couldn't understand what is said to be a year after what else.
"Am 1. Januar 1872 wurde aus dem exakt ein Jahr zuvor in Kraft getretenen Strafgesetzbuch des Norddeutschen Bunds das Strafgesetzbuch des Deutschen Reichs."
The penal code of the North German Confederation became the penal code of the Empire exactly one year after it [the former] had first taken effect.
Arguably the original text has some slight ambiguity as to whether the code was in fact adopted entirely unchanged.
(unsigned)
Should 'zoophilia' be used consistently, or 'bestiality'? On the one hand some tolerant folks might regard the latter as needlessly pejorative, but on the other it more explicitly refers to actual practice rather than mere desire, cf. the difference between pedophilia and pederasty.
Second, I do think that the introductory paragraph needlessly emphasizes the events of the Nazi era (which are of course also discussed later). The law had a 120 year history, and I think you are falling into the same sort of error that the German legislature did when they retroactively pardoned those convicted under this statute by the Nazi regime, but not any others.
I've also fixed a couple of tiny typos and will try to review the rest of this later - German is my first language, but I think my English is pretty good too :-)
Someone else has pointed out (in an edit comment) that zoophilia is a "tendency", a state of mind, while bestiality is an act. I think that is probably correct, so it is definintely bestiality rather than zoophilia that the law punished: the act, not the desire. -- Jmabel 05:54, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
I will start an article on this at German legal citation. Amys, could you have a look at that (and at its talk page) and see if you can correct any mistakes in the article and/or answer either of my requests on the talk page? -- Jmabel 01:35, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
I think we are at least very close to a featured article candidate here. Does anyone have concrete suggestions of where we might still fall short of that? -- Jmabel 00:41, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
Right now the article says, "Beginning in the 1890s, sexual reformers fought against the 'disgraceful paragraph,' and soon won the support of leading Social Democrats (SPD) and Communists (KPD), as well as some left-liberals (initially in the National Liberal Party and later the DDP but not the DVP)." Although I imagine this is sustantively true, I believe that listing KPD here is anachronistic: the KPD formed at the end of WWI. Does anyone know if we should simply snip out "KPD" and link to communism rather than to this particular party? Or do we need to edit more drastically to bring it in line with the facts? -- Jmabel 19:05, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
I recently brought over some statistical tables on trials and convictions from the German version of the article. I think they are a valuable addition, but I'm not sure I've solved the layout problem well. If someone has a better idea, go for it! -- Jmabel 01:12, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
If anyone has got some spare time, the section about the GDR has been totally rewritten and largely enhanced in the equivalent German-language article. There is also an image for illustration now. -- Amys 04:43, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm running into some difficulties in translating the new East-Germany-related material:
Jmabel 06:25, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC), revised 06:32, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
In any event, I've done what I can on this section. It is possible that I misunderstood something, I found this a bit tricky going. Someone may want to review.
Also, for some reason I'm having trouble capturing pictures from the web right now. If someone else wants to bring in the picture that illustrates this section in the German Wikipedia, please do. -- Jmabel 22:50, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
Amys, I'm happy with most of your recent edits here, but why kill "Men over 21 could be punished for acts of homosexual intercourse. Homosexual newspapers and organizations were still prohibited," and the two places where I remark that changes in the criminal code were to bring it in line with what had already been decided by the courts? Are you saying these are factually wrong, or just trying to bring this exactly in line with the German-language article? The latter is not a requirement. -- Jmabel 01:41, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
Some comment as to the "OdF-Ausweis": The one to whom this card belongs got it first, because he he had been in a concentration camp (KZ Theresienstadt). But he got it only because he'd said he was there because of political reasons. Than it was found out that he had been there because "he was a criminal" (§ 175), and thus the card was invalidated. The Berlin Magistrate even announced to take him to the court for deceit. -- Amys 04:03, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have read in a German Wikipedia article that any sex with someone under the age of 18 is illegal in the U.S. Is this really true? I can't believe this. -- Amys 03:07, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
66.167.139.105 10:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC): It was really unfortunate that the phrase "greatly exacerbated its severity" made it onto the main page. Featured articles are supposed to be "particularly well-written" and that sentence is not. Since "exacerbate" means "to make more severe" the sentence becomes "Nazi Germany greatly makes more severe [the paragraph's] severity ..."
But it's even worse than that. When you read the section of the article that that sentence is meant to summarize, fixing the wording isn't enough. The one-sentence summary is wrong. After a quick reading of the differences between the 1871 version and the 1935 version, I'd summarize the changes as follows:
And then it gets even more complicated. The article points out that convictions based on Paragraph 175 increased by a factor of ten, and even those who completed their punishments or were acquitted ended up in concentration camps, where thousands died. These Nazi-era changes were separate from anything mentioned in Paragraph 175.
So a summary of the Nazi-era changes could be: "Nazi Germany changed the law in 1935; prosecutions increased by an order of magnitude, and thousands died in concentration camps, regardless of guilt or innocence." (unsigned)
I have restored "leftist" rather than "left-wing". The claim that the latter is move NPOV strikes me as misguided, at best. I gather that the two terms have different connotations in different English-speaking countries. In the U.S., where I live, "left-wing" carries much stronger connotations of extremism: I've never heard an American call him- or herself "left-wing", I've only heard it used here as an at least mildly disparaging term, while plenty of people here embrace "leftist". I don't know which country the other editor was from, but this is going to be one of those cases where you can't please everyone. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:10, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
I added some information about the § and afforts of the green party in 1986. It is a very poor english I am shure - if someone please can put it please in a proper english form? Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.40.239 ( talk • contribs) 11 Nov 2005.
The following two sentences were recently added to the section on The Nazi Era. I've cut them. I'm not saying they are wrong, but they are uncited and a bit vague; since this is a featured article, and has had a great deal of review (both here and in the German Wikipedia) "According to estimations" without saying anything about who did the estimating really doesn't cut it. (Also, if these are to be restored, please let'd clean up the English; for example, there is no such word as "puted".)
The article has precise numbers of arrests for 1933–1941. They add up to 46,559. If our current numbers are accurate, and if an estimate of 100,000 is accurate, that would mean more arrests 1942–1945 (three years) than 1933–1941 (nine years) and a sudden reversal of a falling off that happened with the start of the war. I'm not saying that is impossible, but I am saying that it is the sort of thing for which I would like to see a citation.
"A total of 10,000–15,000 died according to estimations": this would conflict strongly both with our own previous numbers (about 40% surviving, out of about 10,000 total). It would also sit oddly with the estimate of 100,000. If over 50,000 additional men were arrested in 1942–1945, and 10,000–15,000 died in the camps, that would mean well over 30,000 surviving pink triangle prisoners (maybe over 40,000) at the end of the war, which I strongly doubt. Since the T-4 Euthanasia Program was largely over by the end of 1941, it does little to reconcile these numbers.
Again, if these estimates come from some academic source that has done good research, then they belong, cited, in the article even if they do not sit well with our other numbers. But uncited, I don't think they belong.
That said, our citation standards were lower when this became a featured article. User:Amys ( de:Benutzer:Lysis) clearly did a lot of very careful research, but he did not cite in the detail we would now. I'm hoping that he can come help sort some of this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:34, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I translated the Paragraph 175 into Chinese according to the English Translation. I found some confusion here:
It is about prostitution or a "skillful masturbation"?? Thank you. -- Hkchan123 06:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Recently added, uncited: "This 'dishonor' was only refered to the deserters from the Wehrmacht, however, not to the homosexuals." Does someone have a citation on this? - Jmabel | Talk 06:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
It's as simple as that.
http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/benkert-143.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.171.218 ( talk) 16:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi, I've expanded the article. But since I'm German (and actually live in Germany), I don't know if my is English is quite correct and idiomatic. So someone should check this article linguistically ;-) - Lysis 02:33 21. Jun 2004 (UTC)
Two phrases in the opening section of the article are ambiguous:
Jmabel 05:47, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
Our article currently says "In 1935, the Nazis exacerbated the law so that the police could pursue any homosexual act whatsoever (even an embrace or a kiss)." While I am aware that this was the actual Nazi policy, now that I've read and translated the 1935 statute, I see nothing in the text that gave sanction to that policy. This sentence predates my involvement in the article. Unless someone can give evidence for the statement as it stands, I intend to reword to make clear that the Nazi persecution of homosexuals went even beyond the harsh letter of the law. -- Jmabel 18:55, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll try to clarify that in the article itself. BTW, any chance you could help with that one sentence I've been unable to translate confidently & left in the original German? I'd pinged Carlo Ierna, but I guess he's not logged in for a while. -- Jmabel 06:57, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
can someone provide sources for the quotes. for example: According to the official rationale, Paragraph 175 was amended in the interest of the moral health of the Volk – the German people – because "according to experience" homosexuality "inclines toward plague-like propagation" and exerts "a ruinous influence" on the "circles concerned". Heyali 18:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Since I haven't actually seen this, and since it is mentioned only in passing, I didn't think this was appropriate to add to the references, but if anyone finds it useful, the Draft penal code (E 1962) was apparently translated into English and published. (The translation used in this article, however, is our own.)
Yes, the article dates the law from May 15, 1871, then calls May 17, 2002 the anniversary. I'm clueless, too. I translated this from the German. I've asked the obvious question on the German-language discussion page. -- Jmabel 06:57, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I've done my darnedest to translate this. In some places, my text doesn't follow the original German exactly. There are several reasons for this:
Jmabel 07:04, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
<moved from User talk:Jmabel> Hi Joe,
you've asked:
Theoretically yes, but read subsection 3 of the law:
Apparently, the government had sensed the absurdity that a 18-year-old could be found guilty for sex with someone under 21 years of age. This probably had to be the case, because 18 is the legal age of majority in the German law codes, and you mustn't treat an 18-year-old differently from any other grown-up person, at least from a principal point of view.
By the way, you are not the only one who is bewildered by that, but I've looked up the law text on different internet sites, and they all agree on that point. -- Amys 19:22, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
<end moved text>
I've added a paragraph to the article to address this overtly. -- Jmabel 22:20, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I took out the following paragraph, because, as we now know, the age of majority was 21 in 1969, so the formulation is somewhat mistaken:
I have also shortened "sex between a man older than 18 years with a man less than 21 years old", because this is very bewildering to the readers (I've done the same in the German article a few days ago). Since the law was only effective until 1973 (when the age of consent was lowered to 18), it isn't really an issue worthwhile being adressed in a whole paragraph. --
Amys 23:21, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is a little misunderstanding concerning the following issue:
"Sodomy" (Engl.) and "Sodomie" (German) don't mean the same. They are kind of "false friends". Few People in Germany actually know that "Sodomy" in the U.S. refers to "anal intercourse", because this meaning has been totally lost in their own language. If someone talks of "Sodomie" in German, he always means acts of zoophilia, and most would be quite amazed (perhaps even shocked ;-) that in other countries people understand this word in a different way. Compare the German entry to Sodomie. (The reference to the medieval and the international meaning of "sodomy" have been added just some weeks ago.) -- Amys 23:35, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Don't want to be demanding ;-), but the section about the German Empire (1871-1918) is missing from the English translation. Mmh. -- Amys 02:47, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
§ 182 StGB contains numerous terms without precise, clear legal definitions; critics have raised concerns that families can misuse this law to criminalize socially disapproved relations (for example, because they are homosexual). In Austria an analogous development was carried out by striking out § 209 StGB from the Austrian legal code and adopting § 207b StGB.
ad 1) Relationships that are disapproved bei the "Umfeld" (parents, relatives, ...), because they violate social norms (e.g. heterosexist ones).
ad 2) I think the passage about Austria (I haven't written it) wants to hint at the fact that the relation between the abolished § 175 and the potentially abusable § 182 is the same as that between the abolished § 209 StGB and the newly adopted § 207b StGB in the Austrian penal code. There was a major discussion on this topic in the German wikipedia, because we couldn't find out, if the § 182 was expanded the same time the § 175 was voided (which would suggest that it had a kind of surrogate function without explicitly mentioning homosexuality). Therefore, this paragraph is full of sinister allusions. And the passage about the Austrian code is probably one of these allusions (§ 207b StGB being a surrogate for § 209). -- Amys 20:32, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In the original German, at one point there is a note "RGSt 73, 78, 80 f". I now see that is not a footnote to one of the references given. Is it a reference to a statute book? Is there some same way to carry this information into the English-language article? Legal citations are generally a good addition. (And would this all be clear to a German-speaker, or does it deserve a link there as well?) -- Jmabel 08:32, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
Two passages that gave me enough trouble that I didn't even really try; Amys, can you help me?
"Am 1. Januar 1872 wurde aus dem exakt ein Jahr zuvor in Kraft getretenen Strafgesetzbuch des Norddeutschen Bunds das Strafgesetzbuch des Deutschen Reichs." I translated as "On January 1, 1872, the penal code of the North German Confederation became the penal code of the entire German Empire," which I believe is accurate as far as it goes, but I couldn't understand what is said to be a year after what else.
After the first mention of the WhK is the phrase "nun eine Honoratioren-Bewegung": what does that mean? -- Jmabel 08:49, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
but I couldn't understand what is said to be a year after what else.
"Am 1. Januar 1872 wurde aus dem exakt ein Jahr zuvor in Kraft getretenen Strafgesetzbuch des Norddeutschen Bunds das Strafgesetzbuch des Deutschen Reichs."
The penal code of the North German Confederation became the penal code of the Empire exactly one year after it [the former] had first taken effect.
Arguably the original text has some slight ambiguity as to whether the code was in fact adopted entirely unchanged.
(unsigned)
Should 'zoophilia' be used consistently, or 'bestiality'? On the one hand some tolerant folks might regard the latter as needlessly pejorative, but on the other it more explicitly refers to actual practice rather than mere desire, cf. the difference between pedophilia and pederasty.
Second, I do think that the introductory paragraph needlessly emphasizes the events of the Nazi era (which are of course also discussed later). The law had a 120 year history, and I think you are falling into the same sort of error that the German legislature did when they retroactively pardoned those convicted under this statute by the Nazi regime, but not any others.
I've also fixed a couple of tiny typos and will try to review the rest of this later - German is my first language, but I think my English is pretty good too :-)
Someone else has pointed out (in an edit comment) that zoophilia is a "tendency", a state of mind, while bestiality is an act. I think that is probably correct, so it is definintely bestiality rather than zoophilia that the law punished: the act, not the desire. -- Jmabel 05:54, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
I will start an article on this at German legal citation. Amys, could you have a look at that (and at its talk page) and see if you can correct any mistakes in the article and/or answer either of my requests on the talk page? -- Jmabel 01:35, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
I think we are at least very close to a featured article candidate here. Does anyone have concrete suggestions of where we might still fall short of that? -- Jmabel 00:41, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
Right now the article says, "Beginning in the 1890s, sexual reformers fought against the 'disgraceful paragraph,' and soon won the support of leading Social Democrats (SPD) and Communists (KPD), as well as some left-liberals (initially in the National Liberal Party and later the DDP but not the DVP)." Although I imagine this is sustantively true, I believe that listing KPD here is anachronistic: the KPD formed at the end of WWI. Does anyone know if we should simply snip out "KPD" and link to communism rather than to this particular party? Or do we need to edit more drastically to bring it in line with the facts? -- Jmabel 19:05, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
I recently brought over some statistical tables on trials and convictions from the German version of the article. I think they are a valuable addition, but I'm not sure I've solved the layout problem well. If someone has a better idea, go for it! -- Jmabel 01:12, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
If anyone has got some spare time, the section about the GDR has been totally rewritten and largely enhanced in the equivalent German-language article. There is also an image for illustration now. -- Amys 04:43, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm running into some difficulties in translating the new East-Germany-related material:
Jmabel 06:25, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC), revised 06:32, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
In any event, I've done what I can on this section. It is possible that I misunderstood something, I found this a bit tricky going. Someone may want to review.
Also, for some reason I'm having trouble capturing pictures from the web right now. If someone else wants to bring in the picture that illustrates this section in the German Wikipedia, please do. -- Jmabel 22:50, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
Amys, I'm happy with most of your recent edits here, but why kill "Men over 21 could be punished for acts of homosexual intercourse. Homosexual newspapers and organizations were still prohibited," and the two places where I remark that changes in the criminal code were to bring it in line with what had already been decided by the courts? Are you saying these are factually wrong, or just trying to bring this exactly in line with the German-language article? The latter is not a requirement. -- Jmabel 01:41, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
Some comment as to the "OdF-Ausweis": The one to whom this card belongs got it first, because he he had been in a concentration camp (KZ Theresienstadt). But he got it only because he'd said he was there because of political reasons. Than it was found out that he had been there because "he was a criminal" (§ 175), and thus the card was invalidated. The Berlin Magistrate even announced to take him to the court for deceit. -- Amys 04:03, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have read in a German Wikipedia article that any sex with someone under the age of 18 is illegal in the U.S. Is this really true? I can't believe this. -- Amys 03:07, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
66.167.139.105 10:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC): It was really unfortunate that the phrase "greatly exacerbated its severity" made it onto the main page. Featured articles are supposed to be "particularly well-written" and that sentence is not. Since "exacerbate" means "to make more severe" the sentence becomes "Nazi Germany greatly makes more severe [the paragraph's] severity ..."
But it's even worse than that. When you read the section of the article that that sentence is meant to summarize, fixing the wording isn't enough. The one-sentence summary is wrong. After a quick reading of the differences between the 1871 version and the 1935 version, I'd summarize the changes as follows:
And then it gets even more complicated. The article points out that convictions based on Paragraph 175 increased by a factor of ten, and even those who completed their punishments or were acquitted ended up in concentration camps, where thousands died. These Nazi-era changes were separate from anything mentioned in Paragraph 175.
So a summary of the Nazi-era changes could be: "Nazi Germany changed the law in 1935; prosecutions increased by an order of magnitude, and thousands died in concentration camps, regardless of guilt or innocence." (unsigned)
I have restored "leftist" rather than "left-wing". The claim that the latter is move NPOV strikes me as misguided, at best. I gather that the two terms have different connotations in different English-speaking countries. In the U.S., where I live, "left-wing" carries much stronger connotations of extremism: I've never heard an American call him- or herself "left-wing", I've only heard it used here as an at least mildly disparaging term, while plenty of people here embrace "leftist". I don't know which country the other editor was from, but this is going to be one of those cases where you can't please everyone. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:10, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
I added some information about the § and afforts of the green party in 1986. It is a very poor english I am shure - if someone please can put it please in a proper english form? Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.40.239 ( talk • contribs) 11 Nov 2005.
The following two sentences were recently added to the section on The Nazi Era. I've cut them. I'm not saying they are wrong, but they are uncited and a bit vague; since this is a featured article, and has had a great deal of review (both here and in the German Wikipedia) "According to estimations" without saying anything about who did the estimating really doesn't cut it. (Also, if these are to be restored, please let'd clean up the English; for example, there is no such word as "puted".)
The article has precise numbers of arrests for 1933–1941. They add up to 46,559. If our current numbers are accurate, and if an estimate of 100,000 is accurate, that would mean more arrests 1942–1945 (three years) than 1933–1941 (nine years) and a sudden reversal of a falling off that happened with the start of the war. I'm not saying that is impossible, but I am saying that it is the sort of thing for which I would like to see a citation.
"A total of 10,000–15,000 died according to estimations": this would conflict strongly both with our own previous numbers (about 40% surviving, out of about 10,000 total). It would also sit oddly with the estimate of 100,000. If over 50,000 additional men were arrested in 1942–1945, and 10,000–15,000 died in the camps, that would mean well over 30,000 surviving pink triangle prisoners (maybe over 40,000) at the end of the war, which I strongly doubt. Since the T-4 Euthanasia Program was largely over by the end of 1941, it does little to reconcile these numbers.
Again, if these estimates come from some academic source that has done good research, then they belong, cited, in the article even if they do not sit well with our other numbers. But uncited, I don't think they belong.
That said, our citation standards were lower when this became a featured article. User:Amys ( de:Benutzer:Lysis) clearly did a lot of very careful research, but he did not cite in the detail we would now. I'm hoping that he can come help sort some of this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:34, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I translated the Paragraph 175 into Chinese according to the English Translation. I found some confusion here:
It is about prostitution or a "skillful masturbation"?? Thank you. -- Hkchan123 06:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Recently added, uncited: "This 'dishonor' was only refered to the deserters from the Wehrmacht, however, not to the homosexuals." Does someone have a citation on this? - Jmabel | Talk 06:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
It's as simple as that.
http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/benkert-143.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.171.218 ( talk) 16:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)