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I've added a dubious tag about his family background (this father&mother claim is still wp:or). Since a number of references are contradicting each other it appears that the issue isn't clear. Until a decent reference is brought, per wp:BLP, this part should be avoided. Alexikoua ( talk) 23:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
His father was a Albanian biolog who was welcomed in greece.See http://www.lajmeonline.eu/shqiptari-kone-sjam-shqiptar-jam-grek/.He had never denied his origin.See http://www.sportishqiptar.com.al/newsite/2013/02/11/panajotis-kone-nuk-e-kam-mohuar-kurre-origjinen-time/. User:Arb12345 11:51, 30 June 2014
He clearly said that he was Albanian.See references 2,6.And he said that his father was welcomed in Greece.See reference 4.He sad that feel greek.We still don't know about his mother.We now that he has a Albanian father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arb12345 ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
In Tirana there isn't a greek community.He consider his family as greeks.He sad clearly that his father was Albanian.We can't make his father a greek. User:Arb12345 21:31, 30 June 2014
Would the involved editors please read WP:BRD and not keep reverting to there preferred version before a consensus is reached here. That is called WP:EDITWARRING and will only get the page protected from non admins editing it. The references given seem to me to show that he considers himself Greek, and convention on Wikipedia for sportsman is that the nationality he represents internationally is used. As for his family, the refs all say they consider themselves Greek - no reference explicitly state his mother does not consider herself Greek. Nationality is a complicated issue - especially in this area where people often have allegiances that do not match the current political boundaries. The editor(s) pushing the Albanian nationality need to provide WP:reliable sources that back up their view rather than just making unsourced claims. Regardless of that, linking to List of Albanians in the lead is totally irrelevant - it adds nothing to the article anyway. noq ( talk) 23:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
He was born in Tirana, to ethnic Greek parents. His family moved to Greece when he was a child. He represents Greece, and has said that he solely feels (identifies) as Greek. Please refrain from original research.-- Zoupan 22:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
He is Greek just like Mao Zedong ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.73.129.13 ( talk) 13:10, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe these can help you people : [1] [2] Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Kone is seen making eagles symbol aka symbol of Albania,this was news was spread in greek and albanian media. Perhaps with this action Kone wanted to show his ethnic origin. AlbertBikaj ( talk) 14:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Please stop edit-warring. An user is outright OR-ing Kone's quote as him being of Albanian ethnicity, when this is clearly not the case. This POV is pushed by several IPs, most likely the same person.-- Zoupan 00:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Can we safely conclude that the claim of Albanian ethnicity is original research? This person was born in Albania to ethnic Greek parents, moving to Greece as a child; this makes him a Greek national and an ethnic Greek. The Personal life-section makes this perfectly clear, with references. This discussion needs to be closed, the IP has been warned.-- Zoupan 23:36, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Zoupan: Is it possible to be an ethnic Greek of Albanian descent? (do click on the link) /info/en/?search=User_talk:Cplakidas#Translation_of_quote Is there any interest on your end to edit the page based on your newfound knowledge?
Aside from the fact that the quotes in greek are almost literal translations of the quotes in GdS, you will also find the following in the Gazzetta dello Sport and Corriere di Bologna [CdB]:
Why should these facts be disregarded? Why is Zoupan threatening to kill the discussion in light of the fact that I presented a very good case for the greek translation being wrong (see 'parents ethnicity')? 37.46.188.80 ( talk) 12:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
"His family moved to Athens, Greece, and he has said that he has never faced discrimination because of his origin in Albania". This is incorrect. He's talking about discrimination in Greece, not Albania. "Origjinën time nuk e kam mohuar kurrë, por edhe në Greqi kurrsesi nuk më kanë diskriminuar" means "I have never forgotten my origins, but in Greece I didn't experience any discrimination." 37.46.188.80 ( talk) 00:27, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: I'd love to know why you keep adding "in Albania". This somehow implies that he's talking about discrimination in Albania, when he in fact is talking about discrimination in Greece.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.46.188.80 ( talk • contribs)
@ Zoupan and Alexikoua:Do you oppose changing "because of his origin in Albania" to "because of his origin"? This is more in line with his declaration; "I have never denied my origin, but in Greece I haven't been discriminated". There's no mention as to what his origin is, and it's not up to us to interpret it further (i.e. we can't make inferences based on earlier declarations). DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 21:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
[1] does not mention anything about his parents being ethnically greek. Removed per WP:BLP:
"Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that:
Moreover, Kone never said "all of my relatives are greek". In italian he said: "Dell’Albania conservo qualche familiare, ma sono greco in tutto e per tutto" which means "I still have relatives that live in Albania, but I am thoroughly Greek." This was mistranslated by the greek source as "I still have relatives that live in Albania, but they're thoroughly Greek." Note: "Sono Greco", and not "Sono Greci".
@ Alexikoua:Why did you remove the OR tag? There is a content dispute here with regards to that specific entry. This is a childish game that you're playing. I am still waiting for you and User:Zoupan to present your arguments here. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 13:50, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
References
Two sources in question:
Background: Panagiotis Kone had signed for the Italian football club Bologna FC. The club issued a press conference (in Italian) as a result of the transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKSTZzkok8
GdS reports about the press conference 03/09/11. Article in Sport-fm was last updated 04/09/2011, a day after GdS reported about it.
In Sport-fm Kone is quoted saying the following:
"I arrive at a club that has a history and reputation, my objective is to continue on the successful path from last year and hopefully score a few goals. At Brescia I only managed to score once, but in the previous seasons I used to score 7/8 goals per season. I’m a dynamic midfielder, I’m able to adapt to all roles, I’ve also played as a offensive midfielder/playmaker.”
Above part is also found in GdS, word for word. Here's where the sources disagree:
They're obviously reporting on the same thing based on dates, content and context. Consider the following:
37.46.188.80 ( talk) 10:21, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Why could not "familiare, ma sono greco" mean "family, but they are Greek"? Greco means Greek, Greci means Greeks, as you've put it, but is it necessary to use the plural form for this identification to be correct? Confusing. Also, that his name would be Albanian is also OR, btw, his name and those of his parents clearly shows Greek heritage. Do you have any information from where his family hails?-- Zoupan 15:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: You didn't explain your recent revert. Why? And why the removal? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 12:40, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Look, there's no wiggle room hereif Kone calls himself or his family Greek. di origine Albanese should not be interpreted as "of Albanian ethnic origin".-- Zoupan 20:14, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: There was no DRN outcome, and there's no manipulation or cherry-picking. Now, back to the issue at hand. "Even if a person originates from country X doesn't mean he is ethnic X." The source does not say that he originates from Albania, but that he's of Albanian origin. This has been pointed out to you how many times now? 3? Are you ever going to address this or are you going to keep attacking a straw man? What's the most common way to describe someone's ethnicity in Italian? By the way, interestingly though, when I posited on the NOR noticeboard Zoupan changed "ethnic Greek parents" to "ethnic Greek family", and after the DRN request you changed it to "ethnic Greek background". Apparently my "manipulation attempts" triggered both you and Zoupan to play this game of semantics. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 21:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
@
Zoupan: You once expressed this very noble opinion on another talk page: this is exactly up to us, as a community, to resolve
. Seeing that you're active on this article, I believe you have an interest in filtering out poor sources (just like you did with the Dukagjini article). So, what's your opinion on the Greek source vs Gazzetta dello sport? Is the greek source a translation? Why or why not?
DevilWearsBrioni (
talk)
22:04, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is the opening sentence under the section "Early and personal life" supported by the source? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 18:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Zoupan and Alexikoua: Help me understand: why is it not considered original research to assert that Kone's of ethnic Greek background based on a quote in which he supposedly states that all of his relatives in Albanian are Greek? Why does the following not apply here: "Any analysis or interpretation of the quoted material, however, should rely on a secondary source"? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 13:28, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
. Not even Kone tried to use that as an excuse. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)Μία μέρα μετά την ήττα της Εθνικής ομάδας στα Νησιά Φερόε, έκανε τον γύρο του διαδικτύου μία φωτογραφία του Παναγιώτη Κονέ να κάνει με τα χέρια την γνωστή κίνηση με τον αετό της Αλβανία, προκαλώντας αντιδράσεις
It's incredible that I even have to explain this to you.
Ήρθα σε έναν σύλλογο που έχει ιστορία και φήμη, στόχος μου είναι να διατηρήσω την εικόνα που “έχτισα” την περασμένη σεζόν και ίσως να πετύχω κάποια τέρματα. Στην Μπρέσια σκόραρα μία φορά, αλλά τα προηγούμενα χρόνια είχα μέσο όρο 7-8 γκολ ανά σεζόν. Είμαι ένας δυναμικός μέσος, ταιριάζω σε όλους τους ρόλους, έχω παίξει ακόμα και πλέι μέικερ
was found in all of the sources you just provided. This exact quote. If five independent persons were to translate something, what are the odds that there would be a 100% match between their translations? What does this tell you, Alexikoua? All of the Greek sources were published a day after Gazzetta and Corriere di Bologna. The original sources are in Italian, and not a single one of them mentions anything about his relatives in Albania being Greeks. I have even given an explanation of how the mistranslation arose. Have you seen the press conference? Do you understand Italian? Per BLP:
The accuracy of quoted material is paramount and the accuracy of quotations from living persons is especially sensitive. To ensure accuracy, the text of quoted material is best taken from (and cited to) the original source being quoted
. Apart from this, you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that facts about his relatives are "essential" in an article about him. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Zoupan: I have a hard time seeing how the fact that his brother owns a bar in Athens is anything other than trivia? Moreover, does it not fall under WP:SELFPUB? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:08, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
I comment to your extraordinary claim that all Greek newspapers translated the same text from Italian with the very same error.Straw man. This has never been my argument and you should know that. What I argue instead is that one of the Greek sources mistranslated the Italian source and this material was recycled in greek media. If you don't believe this to be the case, then you'd have to argue that 5 independent sources all came up with the exact same translation, word for word. How plausible is that?
Since Kone spoke Greek in this press conference it's chidlish to claim that the Greek press translated the Italian translation back to Greek instead of writing down Kone's original Greek comments.Again, what parts of the press conference were in Greek? Have you seen the press conference?
Noticeboards are all those (DRN etc) where your arguments have been completely ignored & now you resort to wp:OWN to promote your POV.I know what noticeboards are, I asked which noticeboards. Now, I posted a question in the NOR noticeboard, and the responses I got did not favor your position one bit. That's why Zoupan went ahead and changed the sentence from "ethnic Greek parents" to "ethnic Greek family" which you obviously didn't mind. The DRN was closed due to no volunteers. Here, Robert explains why he chose to not get involved. Arguments weren't ignored, people simply chose to not get involved. By the way, an administrator actually agreed with me that the entry was troublesome and that the article "may be potentially misleading". These discussions tend to go the same way. You make assertions, I answer them. I ask questions, you make assertions again. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
- Παρουσιάστηκε ο Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.onsports.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Παρουσιάστηκε ο Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.gazzetta.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Π.Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.ishow.gr. 25 February 2012. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Π.Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.difernews.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Κονέ: «Ομάδα με ιστορία η Μπολόνια» (in Greek). http://www.novasports.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
After all the above you still insist that this is simply an error. Alexikoua ( talk) 12:07, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Kone's Greek original statement in the specific press conference. The press conference on youtube is entirely in Italian. So, that's why I ask: which part was in Greek? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 15:05, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
are all trivia.
And I'd argue that "He changed his name to Panagiotis because of naturalization process" should somehow be included earlier, just after his birth name. Maybe it's not even necessary to mention the "neutralization process". I suggest something along the lines of: Panagiotis Kone (born as Gjergji Kone).... DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 20:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
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The matter of Kone making the gesture of the Albanian eagle was discussed in the past and the consensus was not to include it. However an edit-warring IP will not stop reverting and adding POV material to the body of the article and at the lead. These are the usual edit-warring methods by socks and IPs plaguing these articles. These changes must be reverted as they reflect no consensus and were done by edit-warring instead of discussion. Dr. K. 14:50, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
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Panagiotis Kone article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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I've added a dubious tag about his family background (this father&mother claim is still wp:or). Since a number of references are contradicting each other it appears that the issue isn't clear. Until a decent reference is brought, per wp:BLP, this part should be avoided. Alexikoua ( talk) 23:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
His father was a Albanian biolog who was welcomed in greece.See http://www.lajmeonline.eu/shqiptari-kone-sjam-shqiptar-jam-grek/.He had never denied his origin.See http://www.sportishqiptar.com.al/newsite/2013/02/11/panajotis-kone-nuk-e-kam-mohuar-kurre-origjinen-time/. User:Arb12345 11:51, 30 June 2014
He clearly said that he was Albanian.See references 2,6.And he said that his father was welcomed in Greece.See reference 4.He sad that feel greek.We still don't know about his mother.We now that he has a Albanian father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arb12345 ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
In Tirana there isn't a greek community.He consider his family as greeks.He sad clearly that his father was Albanian.We can't make his father a greek. User:Arb12345 21:31, 30 June 2014
Would the involved editors please read WP:BRD and not keep reverting to there preferred version before a consensus is reached here. That is called WP:EDITWARRING and will only get the page protected from non admins editing it. The references given seem to me to show that he considers himself Greek, and convention on Wikipedia for sportsman is that the nationality he represents internationally is used. As for his family, the refs all say they consider themselves Greek - no reference explicitly state his mother does not consider herself Greek. Nationality is a complicated issue - especially in this area where people often have allegiances that do not match the current political boundaries. The editor(s) pushing the Albanian nationality need to provide WP:reliable sources that back up their view rather than just making unsourced claims. Regardless of that, linking to List of Albanians in the lead is totally irrelevant - it adds nothing to the article anyway. noq ( talk) 23:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
He was born in Tirana, to ethnic Greek parents. His family moved to Greece when he was a child. He represents Greece, and has said that he solely feels (identifies) as Greek. Please refrain from original research.-- Zoupan 22:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
He is Greek just like Mao Zedong ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.73.129.13 ( talk) 13:10, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe these can help you people : [1] [2] Rolandi+ ( talk) 10:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Kone is seen making eagles symbol aka symbol of Albania,this was news was spread in greek and albanian media. Perhaps with this action Kone wanted to show his ethnic origin. AlbertBikaj ( talk) 14:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Please stop edit-warring. An user is outright OR-ing Kone's quote as him being of Albanian ethnicity, when this is clearly not the case. This POV is pushed by several IPs, most likely the same person.-- Zoupan 00:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Can we safely conclude that the claim of Albanian ethnicity is original research? This person was born in Albania to ethnic Greek parents, moving to Greece as a child; this makes him a Greek national and an ethnic Greek. The Personal life-section makes this perfectly clear, with references. This discussion needs to be closed, the IP has been warned.-- Zoupan 23:36, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Zoupan: Is it possible to be an ethnic Greek of Albanian descent? (do click on the link) /info/en/?search=User_talk:Cplakidas#Translation_of_quote Is there any interest on your end to edit the page based on your newfound knowledge?
Aside from the fact that the quotes in greek are almost literal translations of the quotes in GdS, you will also find the following in the Gazzetta dello Sport and Corriere di Bologna [CdB]:
Why should these facts be disregarded? Why is Zoupan threatening to kill the discussion in light of the fact that I presented a very good case for the greek translation being wrong (see 'parents ethnicity')? 37.46.188.80 ( talk) 12:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
"His family moved to Athens, Greece, and he has said that he has never faced discrimination because of his origin in Albania". This is incorrect. He's talking about discrimination in Greece, not Albania. "Origjinën time nuk e kam mohuar kurrë, por edhe në Greqi kurrsesi nuk më kanë diskriminuar" means "I have never forgotten my origins, but in Greece I didn't experience any discrimination." 37.46.188.80 ( talk) 00:27, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: I'd love to know why you keep adding "in Albania". This somehow implies that he's talking about discrimination in Albania, when he in fact is talking about discrimination in Greece.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.46.188.80 ( talk • contribs)
@ Zoupan and Alexikoua:Do you oppose changing "because of his origin in Albania" to "because of his origin"? This is more in line with his declaration; "I have never denied my origin, but in Greece I haven't been discriminated". There's no mention as to what his origin is, and it's not up to us to interpret it further (i.e. we can't make inferences based on earlier declarations). DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 21:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
[1] does not mention anything about his parents being ethnically greek. Removed per WP:BLP:
"Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that:
Moreover, Kone never said "all of my relatives are greek". In italian he said: "Dell’Albania conservo qualche familiare, ma sono greco in tutto e per tutto" which means "I still have relatives that live in Albania, but I am thoroughly Greek." This was mistranslated by the greek source as "I still have relatives that live in Albania, but they're thoroughly Greek." Note: "Sono Greco", and not "Sono Greci".
@ Alexikoua:Why did you remove the OR tag? There is a content dispute here with regards to that specific entry. This is a childish game that you're playing. I am still waiting for you and User:Zoupan to present your arguments here. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 13:50, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
References
Two sources in question:
Background: Panagiotis Kone had signed for the Italian football club Bologna FC. The club issued a press conference (in Italian) as a result of the transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKSTZzkok8
GdS reports about the press conference 03/09/11. Article in Sport-fm was last updated 04/09/2011, a day after GdS reported about it.
In Sport-fm Kone is quoted saying the following:
"I arrive at a club that has a history and reputation, my objective is to continue on the successful path from last year and hopefully score a few goals. At Brescia I only managed to score once, but in the previous seasons I used to score 7/8 goals per season. I’m a dynamic midfielder, I’m able to adapt to all roles, I’ve also played as a offensive midfielder/playmaker.”
Above part is also found in GdS, word for word. Here's where the sources disagree:
They're obviously reporting on the same thing based on dates, content and context. Consider the following:
37.46.188.80 ( talk) 10:21, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Why could not "familiare, ma sono greco" mean "family, but they are Greek"? Greco means Greek, Greci means Greeks, as you've put it, but is it necessary to use the plural form for this identification to be correct? Confusing. Also, that his name would be Albanian is also OR, btw, his name and those of his parents clearly shows Greek heritage. Do you have any information from where his family hails?-- Zoupan 15:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: You didn't explain your recent revert. Why? And why the removal? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 12:40, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Look, there's no wiggle room hereif Kone calls himself or his family Greek. di origine Albanese should not be interpreted as "of Albanian ethnic origin".-- Zoupan 20:14, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Alexikoua: There was no DRN outcome, and there's no manipulation or cherry-picking. Now, back to the issue at hand. "Even if a person originates from country X doesn't mean he is ethnic X." The source does not say that he originates from Albania, but that he's of Albanian origin. This has been pointed out to you how many times now? 3? Are you ever going to address this or are you going to keep attacking a straw man? What's the most common way to describe someone's ethnicity in Italian? By the way, interestingly though, when I posited on the NOR noticeboard Zoupan changed "ethnic Greek parents" to "ethnic Greek family", and after the DRN request you changed it to "ethnic Greek background". Apparently my "manipulation attempts" triggered both you and Zoupan to play this game of semantics. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 21:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
@
Zoupan: You once expressed this very noble opinion on another talk page: this is exactly up to us, as a community, to resolve
. Seeing that you're active on this article, I believe you have an interest in filtering out poor sources (just like you did with the Dukagjini article). So, what's your opinion on the Greek source vs Gazzetta dello sport? Is the greek source a translation? Why or why not?
DevilWearsBrioni (
talk)
22:04, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is the opening sentence under the section "Early and personal life" supported by the source? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 18:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Zoupan and Alexikoua: Help me understand: why is it not considered original research to assert that Kone's of ethnic Greek background based on a quote in which he supposedly states that all of his relatives in Albanian are Greek? Why does the following not apply here: "Any analysis or interpretation of the quoted material, however, should rely on a secondary source"? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 13:28, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
. Not even Kone tried to use that as an excuse. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)Μία μέρα μετά την ήττα της Εθνικής ομάδας στα Νησιά Φερόε, έκανε τον γύρο του διαδικτύου μία φωτογραφία του Παναγιώτη Κονέ να κάνει με τα χέρια την γνωστή κίνηση με τον αετό της Αλβανία, προκαλώντας αντιδράσεις
It's incredible that I even have to explain this to you.
Ήρθα σε έναν σύλλογο που έχει ιστορία και φήμη, στόχος μου είναι να διατηρήσω την εικόνα που “έχτισα” την περασμένη σεζόν και ίσως να πετύχω κάποια τέρματα. Στην Μπρέσια σκόραρα μία φορά, αλλά τα προηγούμενα χρόνια είχα μέσο όρο 7-8 γκολ ανά σεζόν. Είμαι ένας δυναμικός μέσος, ταιριάζω σε όλους τους ρόλους, έχω παίξει ακόμα και πλέι μέικερ
was found in all of the sources you just provided. This exact quote. If five independent persons were to translate something, what are the odds that there would be a 100% match between their translations? What does this tell you, Alexikoua? All of the Greek sources were published a day after Gazzetta and Corriere di Bologna. The original sources are in Italian, and not a single one of them mentions anything about his relatives in Albania being Greeks. I have even given an explanation of how the mistranslation arose. Have you seen the press conference? Do you understand Italian? Per BLP:
The accuracy of quoted material is paramount and the accuracy of quotations from living persons is especially sensitive. To ensure accuracy, the text of quoted material is best taken from (and cited to) the original source being quoted
. Apart from this, you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that facts about his relatives are "essential" in an article about him. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Zoupan: I have a hard time seeing how the fact that his brother owns a bar in Athens is anything other than trivia? Moreover, does it not fall under WP:SELFPUB? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:08, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
I comment to your extraordinary claim that all Greek newspapers translated the same text from Italian with the very same error.Straw man. This has never been my argument and you should know that. What I argue instead is that one of the Greek sources mistranslated the Italian source and this material was recycled in greek media. If you don't believe this to be the case, then you'd have to argue that 5 independent sources all came up with the exact same translation, word for word. How plausible is that?
Since Kone spoke Greek in this press conference it's chidlish to claim that the Greek press translated the Italian translation back to Greek instead of writing down Kone's original Greek comments.Again, what parts of the press conference were in Greek? Have you seen the press conference?
Noticeboards are all those (DRN etc) where your arguments have been completely ignored & now you resort to wp:OWN to promote your POV.I know what noticeboards are, I asked which noticeboards. Now, I posted a question in the NOR noticeboard, and the responses I got did not favor your position one bit. That's why Zoupan went ahead and changed the sentence from "ethnic Greek parents" to "ethnic Greek family" which you obviously didn't mind. The DRN was closed due to no volunteers. Here, Robert explains why he chose to not get involved. Arguments weren't ignored, people simply chose to not get involved. By the way, an administrator actually agreed with me that the entry was troublesome and that the article "may be potentially misleading". These discussions tend to go the same way. You make assertions, I answer them. I ask questions, you make assertions again. DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 10:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
- Παρουσιάστηκε ο Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.onsports.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Παρουσιάστηκε ο Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.gazzetta.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Π.Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.ishow.gr. 25 February 2012. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Π.Κονέ (in Greek). http://www.difernews.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
- Κονέ: «Ομάδα με ιστορία η Μπολόνια» (in Greek). http://www.novasports.gr. 4 September 2011. Retrieved 17 January 2015.
Έχω ακόμα κάποια μέλη της οικογένειάς μου στην Αλβανία, αλλά είναι όλοι τους Έλληνες (Some members of my family still live Albania, but they are all Greeks){{ cite web}}
: External link in( help)
|publisher=
After all the above you still insist that this is simply an error. Alexikoua ( talk) 12:07, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Kone's Greek original statement in the specific press conference. The press conference on youtube is entirely in Italian. So, that's why I ask: which part was in Greek? DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 15:05, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
are all trivia.
And I'd argue that "He changed his name to Panagiotis because of naturalization process" should somehow be included earlier, just after his birth name. Maybe it's not even necessary to mention the "neutralization process". I suggest something along the lines of: Panagiotis Kone (born as Gjergji Kone).... DevilWearsBrioni ( talk) 20:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
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The matter of Kone making the gesture of the Albanian eagle was discussed in the past and the consensus was not to include it. However an edit-warring IP will not stop reverting and adding POV material to the body of the article and at the lead. These are the usual edit-warring methods by socks and IPs plaguing these articles. These changes must be reverted as they reflect no consensus and were done by edit-warring instead of discussion. Dr. K. 14:50, 21 July 2016 (UTC)