Hi, I'll take this one, may take some time fr me to finish the review thogh, will add a little as I read along. Some initial observations below:
FunkMonk (
talk)
Thanks
Very well illustrated, but I'd consider enlarging the infobox picture, it is very hard to see it at this size.
"saw Palmyra's turning into a prosperous settlement" We talked about lack of genitive s during the
Mari, Syria review, here it's the other way around, one too many!
"when an amateur video was posted, which shows Syrian soldiers carrying funerary stones" Was there any indication that they were looting, and not just saving the artifacts? Why should they steal from a museum belonging to their own government?
The article doesn't say that the soldiers were looting, just that they were carrying artifacts which raised fears from looting. A second point, back then the site wasn't in danger and the museum of Palmyra is still intact with no artifacts being taken to safety in Damascus, so there wasn't any justification for playing with those artifacts. To keep it neutral, I wrote that this video doesnt confirm that it is a looting operation, just as the source say in its end
France 24 report in English--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
15:11, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Alright, by the way, very nice that you're documenting all these historical sites of Syria, before it is all ground to dust...
FunkMonk (
talk)
15:45, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
"for by the second century, any notion of a clan lost its importance and disappeared in the third century" Not sure which century is meant here.
During the second century, clans were still mentioned but had not importance. During the third century only the four tribes were mentioned and clans disappeared. I changed the sentence into this : disappeared in the following third century.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
07:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
"and Pliny account over Palmyra's political situation is dismissed by modern scholarly" Pliny needs genitive s, and "scholarly" should be "scholars".
Done
" (Polis).[210] The concept of citizenship (Demos) appears in an inscription dated to 10 AD, describing the Palmyrenes as a community.[211] In 74 AD, another inscription mentions the Boule (senate) of the city.[210] The military units of Palmyra were headed by the Strategoi (generals),[212] while the Boule managed the civic responsibilities,[213] and appointed two Archons (lords) annually." Are there reasons for why the Greek terms here (and in the rest of the Government section) are capitalised?
Foreign words are sometimes italicized, but capitals should probably only be used if they are in the original language. But since the Greek alphabet is completely different, it would be kind of pointless.
FunkMonk (
talk)
11:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Just like the Egyptian or Mesopotamian gods, they are Syrian deities from the Levant and concentrated there. See this where Bel is described as Syrian, normal 123--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
14:43, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Ok, I mean it seems Palmyrene gods are mentioned as different from Syrian gods, I guess that is because Palmyra was considered a distinct entity at the time, or how?
FunkMonk (
talk)
14:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, it was seen as Syrian, but since it had its own deities (the three ones, malakbel, aglibol and yarhabol), we need to write Syrian to indicate the deities that were general in the whole of Syria region. For example, the levantine general deities of
Ebla are Syrians but Ebla also had Kura and Nidakul worshipped just in the city. A big indication that Palmyra is also just part of normal Syria is that the main deity Bel was a levantine, its just the Baal of the city like all the Baals of other Syrian cities, but had its name changed to Bel because of a Mesopotamian influence due to trade while keeping the characters of the other Syrian baals.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
15:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Terms like Jinn, Ginnaye, and Genius should probably not be capitalised. They are not names.
Done
"approximately 1000 hectares of irrigable land" As above.
Done
"goes back as early as Hadrian reign." Missing s.
Done
"and Rome to name a few" Seems a bit too informal, perhaps "among others" is better.
Done
"who paid the entire cost of emperor Hadrian visit in 129" Again s.
Done
"however, from the information gathered, it is impossible to determine whether pillaging was taking place" Why italics?
Because this is a direct qoute from the source, is there another protocol when Im using the exact same words ?4Anyway, I edited it and wrote that it is according to
France 24, then the quote in italic.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
20:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The normal way would be to use quotation marks, "it is impossible to determine whether pillaging was taking place". Also, attribute the source in the text when directly quoting.
FunkMonk (
talk)
17:08, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Done
"the Diocletian's era rebuilt walls surrounded only the northern bank" Not sure what is meant here.
The walls built during the reign of Diocletian encompassed only the parts of the city north of the wadi, while the walls of Palmyra of Zenobia encompassed parts northern and southern of the wadi, I clarified the sentence--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
20:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
"n 1751, an expedition led by Wood and Dawkins" Why not full names?
"city of disputed etymology" Is this really necessary in the intro, when it isn't really informative after all? Should be the last issue.
FunkMonk (
talk)
12:51, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Its gone now, I didnt want to write it on the first place but I was afraid that a reviewer will say that the intro should summarize every single section of the article, and since I wrote an etymology section, I wrote the disputed etymology in the intro.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
13:25, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi, I'll take this one, may take some time fr me to finish the review thogh, will add a little as I read along. Some initial observations below:
FunkMonk (
talk)
Thanks
Very well illustrated, but I'd consider enlarging the infobox picture, it is very hard to see it at this size.
"saw Palmyra's turning into a prosperous settlement" We talked about lack of genitive s during the
Mari, Syria review, here it's the other way around, one too many!
"when an amateur video was posted, which shows Syrian soldiers carrying funerary stones" Was there any indication that they were looting, and not just saving the artifacts? Why should they steal from a museum belonging to their own government?
The article doesn't say that the soldiers were looting, just that they were carrying artifacts which raised fears from looting. A second point, back then the site wasn't in danger and the museum of Palmyra is still intact with no artifacts being taken to safety in Damascus, so there wasn't any justification for playing with those artifacts. To keep it neutral, I wrote that this video doesnt confirm that it is a looting operation, just as the source say in its end
France 24 report in English--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
15:11, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Alright, by the way, very nice that you're documenting all these historical sites of Syria, before it is all ground to dust...
FunkMonk (
talk)
15:45, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
"for by the second century, any notion of a clan lost its importance and disappeared in the third century" Not sure which century is meant here.
During the second century, clans were still mentioned but had not importance. During the third century only the four tribes were mentioned and clans disappeared. I changed the sentence into this : disappeared in the following third century.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
07:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
"and Pliny account over Palmyra's political situation is dismissed by modern scholarly" Pliny needs genitive s, and "scholarly" should be "scholars".
Done
" (Polis).[210] The concept of citizenship (Demos) appears in an inscription dated to 10 AD, describing the Palmyrenes as a community.[211] In 74 AD, another inscription mentions the Boule (senate) of the city.[210] The military units of Palmyra were headed by the Strategoi (generals),[212] while the Boule managed the civic responsibilities,[213] and appointed two Archons (lords) annually." Are there reasons for why the Greek terms here (and in the rest of the Government section) are capitalised?
Foreign words are sometimes italicized, but capitals should probably only be used if they are in the original language. But since the Greek alphabet is completely different, it would be kind of pointless.
FunkMonk (
talk)
11:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Just like the Egyptian or Mesopotamian gods, they are Syrian deities from the Levant and concentrated there. See this where Bel is described as Syrian, normal 123--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
14:43, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Ok, I mean it seems Palmyrene gods are mentioned as different from Syrian gods, I guess that is because Palmyra was considered a distinct entity at the time, or how?
FunkMonk (
talk)
14:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, it was seen as Syrian, but since it had its own deities (the three ones, malakbel, aglibol and yarhabol), we need to write Syrian to indicate the deities that were general in the whole of Syria region. For example, the levantine general deities of
Ebla are Syrians but Ebla also had Kura and Nidakul worshipped just in the city. A big indication that Palmyra is also just part of normal Syria is that the main deity Bel was a levantine, its just the Baal of the city like all the Baals of other Syrian cities, but had its name changed to Bel because of a Mesopotamian influence due to trade while keeping the characters of the other Syrian baals.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
15:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Terms like Jinn, Ginnaye, and Genius should probably not be capitalised. They are not names.
Done
"approximately 1000 hectares of irrigable land" As above.
Done
"goes back as early as Hadrian reign." Missing s.
Done
"and Rome to name a few" Seems a bit too informal, perhaps "among others" is better.
Done
"who paid the entire cost of emperor Hadrian visit in 129" Again s.
Done
"however, from the information gathered, it is impossible to determine whether pillaging was taking place" Why italics?
Because this is a direct qoute from the source, is there another protocol when Im using the exact same words ?4Anyway, I edited it and wrote that it is according to
France 24, then the quote in italic.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
20:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The normal way would be to use quotation marks, "it is impossible to determine whether pillaging was taking place". Also, attribute the source in the text when directly quoting.
FunkMonk (
talk)
17:08, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Done
"the Diocletian's era rebuilt walls surrounded only the northern bank" Not sure what is meant here.
The walls built during the reign of Diocletian encompassed only the parts of the city north of the wadi, while the walls of Palmyra of Zenobia encompassed parts northern and southern of the wadi, I clarified the sentence--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
20:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
"n 1751, an expedition led by Wood and Dawkins" Why not full names?
"city of disputed etymology" Is this really necessary in the intro, when it isn't really informative after all? Should be the last issue.
FunkMonk (
talk)
12:51, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Its gone now, I didnt want to write it on the first place but I was afraid that a reviewer will say that the intro should summarize every single section of the article, and since I wrote an etymology section, I wrote the disputed etymology in the intro.--
Attar-Aram syria (
talk)
13:25, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply