This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Some suggestions to get this collaboration started:
please feel free to edit, add or remove items from this list as you feel is appropriate. Thanks, Wiki Townsvillia n 13:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a report to the Queensland Parliament in April 2006 that may be useful if we can track it down.-- Mattinbgn 22:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi GarrieIrons and Mattinbgn, I think I found that resource you were chasing and have also found a couple of other links while I was searching for it. Wiki Townsvillia n
Is it appropriate to add the Template:Infobox Australian Place info box to this article? Is Palm Island one town or are there a number of discrete geographical communities on the island?-- Mattinbgn 01:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if this belongs under Health, where it is now, or a Law and order section. I feel it is notable, most communities in Australia don't have any form of restriction on Alcohol (the fact that it is common in indiginous communities is quite notable and worth highlighting). Ga rr ie 03:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently the History section is almost cut-and-paste from the Auslii website reference. So it's "correct as cited" but a copyvio. Ga rr ie 23:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to drive the links in this section? If you go to the links as they are, you are zoomed in too far to see anything meaningful. eg - the msn page all that was visible was the text Aboriginal land, which made it seem that there was no coverage - but if you zoom out then you can see that there is coverage, just not to that scale at the coordinates the link is for (if the coordinates are a bit to the NW then it'd be better). Ga rr ie 01:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC) In fact - cancel that - basically every map needs to pan one screen to the West to be useful. Existing scale is OK, but the co-ordinates are for the centre of the island and the community is on the Western coast (ie the coast closest to Queensland, I guess because it's not open to the "open sea".) Ga rr ie 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I think i'm putting the facts as reported in the cited newspaper articles accurately, but if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to post full quotes from articles into the talk section here. And if you would like to propose a significant format change please post it here first so that i can check it still reflects the facts stated in the article. Wiki Townsvillia n 13:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
Hello, I made some maps using NASA WorldWind. Feel free to edit them and upload improvements over the top (at Commons - your account there has to be > 4 days old), or else drop a note on my talk page. They can probably be used for the other islands in the Palm Island group too. cheers, pfctdayelise ( talk) 12:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I know that every image in Wikipedia is click to zoom, however I would support leaving (click to zoom) on that one image because the writing is not legible when it is a thumb, "click to zoom" is simple and brings attention to the fact that this image is supposed to be seen at full size. Thoughts? Wiki Townsvillia n 08:26, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would consider the most recent edit by JaKittoe to be extremely POV, particularly as it is not referenced, but am happy to consider others' opinion on this matter. Wiki Townsvillia n 23:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not clear how the photo of grass trees shows a problem to be resolved.-- Grahamec 14:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I took the grass trees photo as an example of the contrast to the environment. The grass trees are scattered over a lot of the island and are estimated at several hundreds of years old, -- Phenss 10:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
One issue I noticed is the relative lack of diversity of sources - most quotes or press were from a single newspaper, The Australian, although I do see a couple of BBC sources in there. I think we need to cast the net wider - particularly to SMH/The Age and ABC, which reported extensively at each stage and in general their stories are still available online. Orderinchaos78 15:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Does this section deserve an article in its own right? While the death in custody and subsequent controversy certainly requires a paragraph summary in this article, the heavy emphasis on this section risks unbalancing the rest of the article. IMO, this article should focus more on Palm Island the place. Thoughts?-- Mattinbgn 02:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following text from Self governance:
The Palm Island Community Council became the Palm Island Aboriginal Shire Council in... under... Act (Qld). Like the other Aboriginal Shire Councils that were created, this Act gave the Council full status as a Local Government on a par with other Councils in Queensland.
If someone can provide the year, legislation and a source, then it should be returned. This type of text belongs in a talk page not on an article, which should read as though it was finished. Ga rr ie 04:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Are the brumbies seen as...
The very passing reference to them in the Natural environment section leaves things very murky. With this information we know there are horses there but not that they are introduced. We don't however know anything about what wildlife naturally occurs on Palm Island - are there any kangaroos? emus? cassowaries? snakes?
Considering the weasel-words in Overview - The Island is often termed a classic "tropical paradise" given its natural endowments... the article doesn't really explain why one would think it is a tropical paradise. The closest thing to climatic coverage the article provides is a mention that tropical cyclones are a problem! Ga rr ie 05:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I can't find any evidence for the existence of Manburra (sic) People v GBRMPA, as distinct from The Manbarra People and Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority and Anor, so I have deleted it.-- Grahamec 02:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Grahame, you cant alter a legal case name just because you dont know what anor means, "and others". That is like changing the spelling of an english word to make it easier and expecting it to be inserted in a dictionary. It was a famous case btw -- Phenss 10:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the the overview section can be moved to the introduction part of the article. A well written article introduction should give an overview as a matter of course without the need for a separate section.-- Mattinbgn/ talk 05:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
The following articles have been created in conjunction with this article, please help expand them :)
While this is significant to Indigenous history generally I don't think it has much relevance to Palm Island specifically, it seems that Palm Island was a bit of a special case which went against the norms of indigenous treatment (ie even worse than the rest of Queensland) and that is covered in other sections of the history section. The wording of the section also concerns me as it reads more as a social commentary than NPOV.
Maybe to provide context for the Palm Island History section a paragraph or two could be added about 20th Century history of indigenous people in Queensland generally... Wiki Townsvillia n 02:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following:
===Aboriginal Protection and Restrictions of the Sale of Opium Act 1897===
As a result of dispersal, malnutrition, opium and diseases, it was widely believed in Queensland that Aborigines were members of a 'dying race'. Pressure from some quarters of the community saw the Queensland government commission Archibald Meston to look at the plight of these dispossessed people. He made a number of recommendations, and some of these became the basis of the Aboriginal Protection and restriction of the sale of opium act 1897. The creators of this Act saw it as a solution to a short term problem, but the administrators of the legislation had a different idea, and from the beginning used it as a device for social engineering and control. It became the instrument with which Aboriginal people could be stripped of the most basic human rights. The Act was the first measure of separate legal control over the Aboriginal people and as Reynolds has pointed out it 'was far more restrictive than any [contemporary] legislation operating in New South Wales or Victoria, and implemented a system of tight controls and closed reserves.'
Administrators were able to gain control of Aboriginal affairs through the extensive use of Regulations which could be made lawful simply through proclamation by the Governor-in-Council. In this manner, decision-making passed from politicians to the public servants. The welfare of Aborigines was, after all, only one small part of a busy member's portfolio. But not only did public servants have responsibility for a huge amount of delegated legislation, individual protectors had extensive autonomy in administering the Act and Regulations. [1]
if anyone feels it should be put back into the article please talk about it in this section first. Thanks, Wiki Townsvillia n 11:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
the 1879 Act was so important in the history of the Aboriginal Protection era. I think it should be expanded on not merely deleted. Perhaps some experts may need to comment? -- Phenss 10:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
not sure if this is the forum so excuse me if not but can someone look for more information from the Palm Island link on the following:
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Some suggestions to get this collaboration started:
please feel free to edit, add or remove items from this list as you feel is appropriate. Thanks, Wiki Townsvillia n 13:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a report to the Queensland Parliament in April 2006 that may be useful if we can track it down.-- Mattinbgn 22:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi GarrieIrons and Mattinbgn, I think I found that resource you were chasing and have also found a couple of other links while I was searching for it. Wiki Townsvillia n
Is it appropriate to add the Template:Infobox Australian Place info box to this article? Is Palm Island one town or are there a number of discrete geographical communities on the island?-- Mattinbgn 01:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if this belongs under Health, where it is now, or a Law and order section. I feel it is notable, most communities in Australia don't have any form of restriction on Alcohol (the fact that it is common in indiginous communities is quite notable and worth highlighting). Ga rr ie 03:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently the History section is almost cut-and-paste from the Auslii website reference. So it's "correct as cited" but a copyvio. Ga rr ie 23:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to drive the links in this section? If you go to the links as they are, you are zoomed in too far to see anything meaningful. eg - the msn page all that was visible was the text Aboriginal land, which made it seem that there was no coverage - but if you zoom out then you can see that there is coverage, just not to that scale at the coordinates the link is for (if the coordinates are a bit to the NW then it'd be better). Ga rr ie 01:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC) In fact - cancel that - basically every map needs to pan one screen to the West to be useful. Existing scale is OK, but the co-ordinates are for the centre of the island and the community is on the Western coast (ie the coast closest to Queensland, I guess because it's not open to the "open sea".) Ga rr ie 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I think i'm putting the facts as reported in the cited newspaper articles accurately, but if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to post full quotes from articles into the talk section here. And if you would like to propose a significant format change please post it here first so that i can check it still reflects the facts stated in the article. Wiki Townsvillia n 13:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
Hello, I made some maps using NASA WorldWind. Feel free to edit them and upload improvements over the top (at Commons - your account there has to be > 4 days old), or else drop a note on my talk page. They can probably be used for the other islands in the Palm Island group too. cheers, pfctdayelise ( talk) 12:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I know that every image in Wikipedia is click to zoom, however I would support leaving (click to zoom) on that one image because the writing is not legible when it is a thumb, "click to zoom" is simple and brings attention to the fact that this image is supposed to be seen at full size. Thoughts? Wiki Townsvillia n 08:26, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would consider the most recent edit by JaKittoe to be extremely POV, particularly as it is not referenced, but am happy to consider others' opinion on this matter. Wiki Townsvillia n 23:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not clear how the photo of grass trees shows a problem to be resolved.-- Grahamec 14:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I took the grass trees photo as an example of the contrast to the environment. The grass trees are scattered over a lot of the island and are estimated at several hundreds of years old, -- Phenss 10:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
One issue I noticed is the relative lack of diversity of sources - most quotes or press were from a single newspaper, The Australian, although I do see a couple of BBC sources in there. I think we need to cast the net wider - particularly to SMH/The Age and ABC, which reported extensively at each stage and in general their stories are still available online. Orderinchaos78 15:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Does this section deserve an article in its own right? While the death in custody and subsequent controversy certainly requires a paragraph summary in this article, the heavy emphasis on this section risks unbalancing the rest of the article. IMO, this article should focus more on Palm Island the place. Thoughts?-- Mattinbgn 02:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following text from Self governance:
The Palm Island Community Council became the Palm Island Aboriginal Shire Council in... under... Act (Qld). Like the other Aboriginal Shire Councils that were created, this Act gave the Council full status as a Local Government on a par with other Councils in Queensland.
If someone can provide the year, legislation and a source, then it should be returned. This type of text belongs in a talk page not on an article, which should read as though it was finished. Ga rr ie 04:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Are the brumbies seen as...
The very passing reference to them in the Natural environment section leaves things very murky. With this information we know there are horses there but not that they are introduced. We don't however know anything about what wildlife naturally occurs on Palm Island - are there any kangaroos? emus? cassowaries? snakes?
Considering the weasel-words in Overview - The Island is often termed a classic "tropical paradise" given its natural endowments... the article doesn't really explain why one would think it is a tropical paradise. The closest thing to climatic coverage the article provides is a mention that tropical cyclones are a problem! Ga rr ie 05:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I can't find any evidence for the existence of Manburra (sic) People v GBRMPA, as distinct from The Manbarra People and Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority and Anor, so I have deleted it.-- Grahamec 02:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Grahame, you cant alter a legal case name just because you dont know what anor means, "and others". That is like changing the spelling of an english word to make it easier and expecting it to be inserted in a dictionary. It was a famous case btw -- Phenss 10:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the the overview section can be moved to the introduction part of the article. A well written article introduction should give an overview as a matter of course without the need for a separate section.-- Mattinbgn/ talk 05:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
The following articles have been created in conjunction with this article, please help expand them :)
While this is significant to Indigenous history generally I don't think it has much relevance to Palm Island specifically, it seems that Palm Island was a bit of a special case which went against the norms of indigenous treatment (ie even worse than the rest of Queensland) and that is covered in other sections of the history section. The wording of the section also concerns me as it reads more as a social commentary than NPOV.
Maybe to provide context for the Palm Island History section a paragraph or two could be added about 20th Century history of indigenous people in Queensland generally... Wiki Townsvillia n 02:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following:
===Aboriginal Protection and Restrictions of the Sale of Opium Act 1897===
As a result of dispersal, malnutrition, opium and diseases, it was widely believed in Queensland that Aborigines were members of a 'dying race'. Pressure from some quarters of the community saw the Queensland government commission Archibald Meston to look at the plight of these dispossessed people. He made a number of recommendations, and some of these became the basis of the Aboriginal Protection and restriction of the sale of opium act 1897. The creators of this Act saw it as a solution to a short term problem, but the administrators of the legislation had a different idea, and from the beginning used it as a device for social engineering and control. It became the instrument with which Aboriginal people could be stripped of the most basic human rights. The Act was the first measure of separate legal control over the Aboriginal people and as Reynolds has pointed out it 'was far more restrictive than any [contemporary] legislation operating in New South Wales or Victoria, and implemented a system of tight controls and closed reserves.'
Administrators were able to gain control of Aboriginal affairs through the extensive use of Regulations which could be made lawful simply through proclamation by the Governor-in-Council. In this manner, decision-making passed from politicians to the public servants. The welfare of Aborigines was, after all, only one small part of a busy member's portfolio. But not only did public servants have responsibility for a huge amount of delegated legislation, individual protectors had extensive autonomy in administering the Act and Regulations. [1]
if anyone feels it should be put back into the article please talk about it in this section first. Thanks, Wiki Townsvillia n 11:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
the 1879 Act was so important in the history of the Aboriginal Protection era. I think it should be expanded on not merely deleted. Perhaps some experts may need to comment? -- Phenss 10:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
not sure if this is the forum so excuse me if not but can someone look for more information from the Palm Island link on the following: