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pa-lee'-nee per Tripp's Meridian Handbook and by regular reading of Greek long vowel η in penult. -- kwami 15:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hello. You keep changing the attribution of the discovery of Pallene, Methone and Polydeuces to Carolyn Porco. This is wrong, those satellites have been discovered by Sébastien Charnoz and Carl Murray. You claim to be representing Carolyn Porco. I think it is a lie as Ms Porco perfectly knows she has not discovered those satellites and i cannot believe she would try to abuse the scientific community. In the future if you change once again the attribution of the discovery i will ask you to provide a certified message from Sébastien Charnoz and Carl Murray stating they have not discoevered those satellites. Thank you very much. Regards. Med 16:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is Carolyn Porco's response to your comments, emailed to me: 'The official attribution for sightings of new moons or rings or features on the moons made by the Cassini imaging team members in Cassini images goes to the Cassini Imaging Team. This is standard practice in the astronomical community and is sanctioned by the International Astronomical Union. It would be entirely unfair and inappropriate to credit the 'discovery' to any one individual on a team of many scientists where many people contributed to the discovery. After all, no one attributes the discovery of America to the guy in the crow's nest of Christopher Columbus' ship. Furthermore, the first reports of these sightings were published in the IAU Circulars which are accurately referenced in the Wiki entries, and those reports constitute the offical announcement of the sightings along with the authorship `C.C.Porco and the Cassini Imaging Team'. This is not an abuse of any kind; it is standard practice, and it is the *correct* attribution for these discoveries'.
I suggest that you email Carolyn at cpcomments@ciclops.org if you wish to discuss this matter further. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.32.254 ( talk) 23:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
See discussion under Methone (moon). The official attribution goes to the Cassini Imaging Team. Charnoz was *not* the discoverer.
In response to what Carolyn has added and Med's reply, I have the following comments. First, I see that Med has changed the pages related to the three satellites, despite Carolyn's explanation. Second, I think now that this is the definitive word and the attribution for the discovery of the three satellites should, rightly, go to the "Cassini Imaging Team led by Carolyn Porco", with Carolyn being named ONLY because she is the team leader NOT because she discovered the three satellites (Pallene, Methone, and Polydeuces) which is NOT what I have been claiming and I would never claim something that was clearly not true, especially something as important as the discovery of astronomical bodies orbiting Saturn. Can everyone involved in this dispute please look carefully at the following proposed sentence, what is being said, and the order of the words:
"It was discovered by the Cassini Imaging Team led by Carolyn Porco".
Please read that again. It (Pallene, Methone, and Polydeuces respectively) was DISCOVERED by the CASSINI IMAGING TEAM - i.e. NOT by Murray NOT by Charnoz and NOT by Carolyn, but discovered by the TEAM - i.e. the words "Cassini Imaging Team" follow directly after the word "discovered" so it is clear to everyone who reads the articles on Wikipedia that the TEAM discovered the three satellites not any one individual. As for Carolyn's name being included in this sentence, this adheres to normal scientific protocol and again it is clear in what capacity she is included in this sentence, i.e. as the team leader NOT the discover. Please look at the order of the words.
It is clear that no individual team member should be singled out for this discovery, since many, many were involved.
I would like to add that it is interesting why Syntaxis, and more importantly Med, feel so passionately about this issue. Surely if they did not have a vested and personal interest in this issue they would not continue to insist that Murray and Charnoz be mentioned. Do Syntaxis and Med know Charnoz and Murray I wonder? It is clearly inappropriate for someone to make changes based on personal preferences.
As for what Med has said about Hubble, Cassini doesn't work like Hubble. The individual scientists using Hubble only propose and use the images. They did NOT build the instruments they are using, and they didn't take 15 years out of their careers to devote to a mission. It is not appropriate to compare two dissimilar scientific endeavours.
The pages Pallene (moon), Methone (moon) and Polydeuces (moon) have been protected because of persistant edit warring and reverts.
I encourage involved users to edit the talk page, resolve their differences, and craft a common version which suits everybody. You are all grown scientists, you are intelligent enough to do this. Rama 13:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Sooner or later, some well-meaning contributor will dig up the 2004 press release and put Charnoz' name back in, sparking another round of fruitless debate. It would seem best to proactively quash any such further occurence. Here's a first draft of the paragraph I would see added:
« Early press releases of the discovery<ref>Martinez, C.; Savage, D.; and Finn, H; [http://saturn1.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-releases-04/20040816-pr-a.cfm Out from the Shadows: Two New Saturnian Moons''], JPL News Release (August 16, 2004)</ref> mentioned the first team member to actually see the moon in the processed images: Sébastien Charnoz, of the University of Paris. This bit of trivia was blown out of proportion in the following months, with Charnoz being credited as the "discoverer" by some sources. Because the discovery was a large team effort, involving tens of people and hundreds of hours of distributed work, a conscious decision was made by the IAU and NASA to officially restrict any credit to "the Cassini Imaging team" and to avoid unfairly singling out any one team member as the discoverer. »
Suggestions on improvement? Urhixidur 19:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just uploaded an audio recording of the article. Please let me know if I've mispronounced anything. :-) -- Mangst ( talk) 01:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The note 10 is editorializing and includes wording which has nothing to do in an encyclopedia. 195.169.141.54 ( talk) 09:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
@ DN-boards1: looking for a source claiming it was discovered in 1981. "Discovery" is not always the first year an object is charted or photographed. Neptune appears in star charts from before it was discovered. Need to be sure that that's a real discovery (with orbit plotted) rather than what's known as "pre-discovery images". Geogene ( talk) 22:31, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
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pa-lee'-nee per Tripp's Meridian Handbook and by regular reading of Greek long vowel η in penult. -- kwami 15:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hello. You keep changing the attribution of the discovery of Pallene, Methone and Polydeuces to Carolyn Porco. This is wrong, those satellites have been discovered by Sébastien Charnoz and Carl Murray. You claim to be representing Carolyn Porco. I think it is a lie as Ms Porco perfectly knows she has not discovered those satellites and i cannot believe she would try to abuse the scientific community. In the future if you change once again the attribution of the discovery i will ask you to provide a certified message from Sébastien Charnoz and Carl Murray stating they have not discoevered those satellites. Thank you very much. Regards. Med 16:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is Carolyn Porco's response to your comments, emailed to me: 'The official attribution for sightings of new moons or rings or features on the moons made by the Cassini imaging team members in Cassini images goes to the Cassini Imaging Team. This is standard practice in the astronomical community and is sanctioned by the International Astronomical Union. It would be entirely unfair and inappropriate to credit the 'discovery' to any one individual on a team of many scientists where many people contributed to the discovery. After all, no one attributes the discovery of America to the guy in the crow's nest of Christopher Columbus' ship. Furthermore, the first reports of these sightings were published in the IAU Circulars which are accurately referenced in the Wiki entries, and those reports constitute the offical announcement of the sightings along with the authorship `C.C.Porco and the Cassini Imaging Team'. This is not an abuse of any kind; it is standard practice, and it is the *correct* attribution for these discoveries'.
I suggest that you email Carolyn at cpcomments@ciclops.org if you wish to discuss this matter further. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.32.254 ( talk) 23:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
See discussion under Methone (moon). The official attribution goes to the Cassini Imaging Team. Charnoz was *not* the discoverer.
In response to what Carolyn has added and Med's reply, I have the following comments. First, I see that Med has changed the pages related to the three satellites, despite Carolyn's explanation. Second, I think now that this is the definitive word and the attribution for the discovery of the three satellites should, rightly, go to the "Cassini Imaging Team led by Carolyn Porco", with Carolyn being named ONLY because she is the team leader NOT because she discovered the three satellites (Pallene, Methone, and Polydeuces) which is NOT what I have been claiming and I would never claim something that was clearly not true, especially something as important as the discovery of astronomical bodies orbiting Saturn. Can everyone involved in this dispute please look carefully at the following proposed sentence, what is being said, and the order of the words:
"It was discovered by the Cassini Imaging Team led by Carolyn Porco".
Please read that again. It (Pallene, Methone, and Polydeuces respectively) was DISCOVERED by the CASSINI IMAGING TEAM - i.e. NOT by Murray NOT by Charnoz and NOT by Carolyn, but discovered by the TEAM - i.e. the words "Cassini Imaging Team" follow directly after the word "discovered" so it is clear to everyone who reads the articles on Wikipedia that the TEAM discovered the three satellites not any one individual. As for Carolyn's name being included in this sentence, this adheres to normal scientific protocol and again it is clear in what capacity she is included in this sentence, i.e. as the team leader NOT the discover. Please look at the order of the words.
It is clear that no individual team member should be singled out for this discovery, since many, many were involved.
I would like to add that it is interesting why Syntaxis, and more importantly Med, feel so passionately about this issue. Surely if they did not have a vested and personal interest in this issue they would not continue to insist that Murray and Charnoz be mentioned. Do Syntaxis and Med know Charnoz and Murray I wonder? It is clearly inappropriate for someone to make changes based on personal preferences.
As for what Med has said about Hubble, Cassini doesn't work like Hubble. The individual scientists using Hubble only propose and use the images. They did NOT build the instruments they are using, and they didn't take 15 years out of their careers to devote to a mission. It is not appropriate to compare two dissimilar scientific endeavours.
The pages Pallene (moon), Methone (moon) and Polydeuces (moon) have been protected because of persistant edit warring and reverts.
I encourage involved users to edit the talk page, resolve their differences, and craft a common version which suits everybody. You are all grown scientists, you are intelligent enough to do this. Rama 13:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Sooner or later, some well-meaning contributor will dig up the 2004 press release and put Charnoz' name back in, sparking another round of fruitless debate. It would seem best to proactively quash any such further occurence. Here's a first draft of the paragraph I would see added:
« Early press releases of the discovery<ref>Martinez, C.; Savage, D.; and Finn, H; [http://saturn1.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-releases-04/20040816-pr-a.cfm Out from the Shadows: Two New Saturnian Moons''], JPL News Release (August 16, 2004)</ref> mentioned the first team member to actually see the moon in the processed images: Sébastien Charnoz, of the University of Paris. This bit of trivia was blown out of proportion in the following months, with Charnoz being credited as the "discoverer" by some sources. Because the discovery was a large team effort, involving tens of people and hundreds of hours of distributed work, a conscious decision was made by the IAU and NASA to officially restrict any credit to "the Cassini Imaging team" and to avoid unfairly singling out any one team member as the discoverer. »
Suggestions on improvement? Urhixidur 19:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just uploaded an audio recording of the article. Please let me know if I've mispronounced anything. :-) -- Mangst ( talk) 01:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The note 10 is editorializing and includes wording which has nothing to do in an encyclopedia. 195.169.141.54 ( talk) 09:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
@ DN-boards1: looking for a source claiming it was discovered in 1981. "Discovery" is not always the first year an object is charted or photographed. Neptune appears in star charts from before it was discovered. Need to be sure that that's a real discovery (with orbit plotted) rather than what's known as "pre-discovery images". Geogene ( talk) 22:31, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
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