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"When the game fell out of fashion, some of these pall malls evolved into shopping precincts, hence the modern name of shopping centres in the USA: shopping malls[citation needed]; others evolved into grassed shady promenades, still called malls today."
USA Shopping malls are definitely not evolved spaces formerly used for pall mall. The United States didn't even exist until the late 18th century, when the game had already gone out of fashion. I don't think a citation is needed, I think an omission is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.26.211 ( talk) 17:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was not moved. "Pall mall" seems to be the common name for the game. Aervanath ( talk) 04:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Pall mall (game) → Paille-maille — "Pall mall" is a corruption of the earlier spelling, and this move will also obviate the need for parenthetical disambiguation. The Pall mall DAB page will need an update after the move. Move blocked by edited redirect. — SMcCandlish ( talk) 20:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to pall-mall. There's clear consensus that the "pall-mall" spelling is the most common. The form with the hyphen appears to have more support, and has the additional benefit of removing the need for the parenthetical disambiguator. Cúchullain t/ c 17:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Paille-maille → Pall mall (game) – The result of the above move request "pall mall (game)" -> "Paille-maille" by SMcCandlish was do not move, but the following day SMcCandlish went ahead and moved it anyway. It seems clear that "pall mall" is the current English language name for this game (or at least was when it was last popular), and paille-maille is just part of its etymology (and perhaps its current name in other languages). The OED entry quoted above by 76.19.127.225 confirms this. So I propose that it be moved back. Quietbritishjim ( talk) 15:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
{{
db-move}}
and removing the edited redirect so the article could be moved to its current name"? Was the other admin aware he was answering a G6 request counter an RM? But anyway, it's a non-malicious one-off, restore it and move on.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
00:52, 3 November 2012 (UTC){{
db-move}}
and removing the edited redirect so the article could be moved to its current name, indicating either a) that an administrative disagreement existed over the matter that, basically,
no one cares about, or b) that no one involved or uninvolved, not even me, remembered as little as a day later that there ever was an RM opened on this at all, which didn't come to a meaningful conclusion anyway. The fact that the article has been stable at
paille-maille for over 3 years with no objection and no evidence of confusion or any other problems strongly suggests per
WP:CCC (and the basic "if it isn't broken, don't 'fix' it" principle) that, despite the abortive RM pseudo-consensus, it should remain at this title unless substantive not procedural reasons override. "Pall mall" is one of innumerable variant spellings which appears to have arisen long after the game was extinct and is applied principally to later meanings. It is not only ambiguous, the application of this spelling to the game itself appears to be a back-formation. Meanwhile, "paille-maille" is well-attested, both in the period and in later (including modern) writing, and is not ambiguous. The OED does not magically set policy at
WP:AT, and is not the only dictionary in the world, just the longest. Show me a majority of English-language dictionaries labeling "paille-maille" as obsolete, then you have a case. Re-opening this now, not in terms of the merits of name A vs. name B, but in terms of personal accusations and process nitpicking, years after the fact, and in absence of any actual problem that needs to be addressed, is a clear example of
WP:LAWYER, and is a solution in search of a problem. PS: The sole objection raised in the original RM is factually incorrect anyway; the OED certainly does not capitalize this or the name of other games (except in as much as they contain proper names, e.g. "Chinese checkers"). —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ
Contrib.
05:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)Hi all,
I noted that pell-mell redirects to pall-mall, although the two terms seem to have no common origin and most online sources (including Wiktionary) give a different etymology for pell-mell. (It's difficult to see how a measured game like pall-mall should have become a synonym for turmoil and confusion anyway. :-))
Should the redirect be broken up, or should the pall-mall article mention that pell-mell does have a different origin, despite the superficial similarity? -- Syzygy ( talk) 07:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Please consider merging this article with this one: /info/en/?search=Jeu_de_mail — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpapke ( talk • contribs) 02:30, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
"When the game fell out of fashion, some of these pall malls evolved into shopping precincts, hence the modern name of shopping centres in the USA: shopping malls[citation needed]; others evolved into grassed shady promenades, still called malls today."
USA Shopping malls are definitely not evolved spaces formerly used for pall mall. The United States didn't even exist until the late 18th century, when the game had already gone out of fashion. I don't think a citation is needed, I think an omission is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.26.211 ( talk) 17:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was not moved. "Pall mall" seems to be the common name for the game. Aervanath ( talk) 04:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Pall mall (game) → Paille-maille — "Pall mall" is a corruption of the earlier spelling, and this move will also obviate the need for parenthetical disambiguation. The Pall mall DAB page will need an update after the move. Move blocked by edited redirect. — SMcCandlish ( talk) 20:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to pall-mall. There's clear consensus that the "pall-mall" spelling is the most common. The form with the hyphen appears to have more support, and has the additional benefit of removing the need for the parenthetical disambiguator. Cúchullain t/ c 17:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Paille-maille → Pall mall (game) – The result of the above move request "pall mall (game)" -> "Paille-maille" by SMcCandlish was do not move, but the following day SMcCandlish went ahead and moved it anyway. It seems clear that "pall mall" is the current English language name for this game (or at least was when it was last popular), and paille-maille is just part of its etymology (and perhaps its current name in other languages). The OED entry quoted above by 76.19.127.225 confirms this. So I propose that it be moved back. Quietbritishjim ( talk) 15:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
{{
db-move}}
and removing the edited redirect so the article could be moved to its current name"? Was the other admin aware he was answering a G6 request counter an RM? But anyway, it's a non-malicious one-off, restore it and move on.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
00:52, 3 November 2012 (UTC){{
db-move}}
and removing the edited redirect so the article could be moved to its current name, indicating either a) that an administrative disagreement existed over the matter that, basically,
no one cares about, or b) that no one involved or uninvolved, not even me, remembered as little as a day later that there ever was an RM opened on this at all, which didn't come to a meaningful conclusion anyway. The fact that the article has been stable at
paille-maille for over 3 years with no objection and no evidence of confusion or any other problems strongly suggests per
WP:CCC (and the basic "if it isn't broken, don't 'fix' it" principle) that, despite the abortive RM pseudo-consensus, it should remain at this title unless substantive not procedural reasons override. "Pall mall" is one of innumerable variant spellings which appears to have arisen long after the game was extinct and is applied principally to later meanings. It is not only ambiguous, the application of this spelling to the game itself appears to be a back-formation. Meanwhile, "paille-maille" is well-attested, both in the period and in later (including modern) writing, and is not ambiguous. The OED does not magically set policy at
WP:AT, and is not the only dictionary in the world, just the longest. Show me a majority of English-language dictionaries labeling "paille-maille" as obsolete, then you have a case. Re-opening this now, not in terms of the merits of name A vs. name B, but in terms of personal accusations and process nitpicking, years after the fact, and in absence of any actual problem that needs to be addressed, is a clear example of
WP:LAWYER, and is a solution in search of a problem. PS: The sole objection raised in the original RM is factually incorrect anyway; the OED certainly does not capitalize this or the name of other games (except in as much as they contain proper names, e.g. "Chinese checkers"). —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ
Contrib.
05:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)Hi all,
I noted that pell-mell redirects to pall-mall, although the two terms seem to have no common origin and most online sources (including Wiktionary) give a different etymology for pell-mell. (It's difficult to see how a measured game like pall-mall should have become a synonym for turmoil and confusion anyway. :-))
Should the redirect be broken up, or should the pall-mall article mention that pell-mell does have a different origin, despite the superficial similarity? -- Syzygy ( talk) 07:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Please consider merging this article with this one: /info/en/?search=Jeu_de_mail — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpapke ( talk • contribs) 02:30, 30 December 2018 (UTC)