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There is a picture on the Jagjit Singh Aurora page of the Instrument being signed ... I think that it should be included in this article ... any objections ???
-- Saggod 11:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
The image File:1971 surrender.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 01:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Were they repatriated? -- AW ( talk) 06:33, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The "surrender of East Pakistan" sounds like the Surrender of Japan or Surrender of Germany. The people of East Pakistan declared independence on March 26 and became Bangladesh. According the Instrument of Surrender, the Pakistan Eastern Command surrendered in Bangladesh. There was no such thing as East Pakistan on December 16!-- ArmanJ ( talk) 20:30, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Good Day
1. I am Major Shameem Ibne Moin, currently posted as a General Staff Officer Grade 2 in Armed Forces Division, Prime Minister’s Office, Government of the Peoples’ Republic of Bangladesh. I would like to put forward an observation regarding an article published in Wikipedia named ‘Instrument of Surrender (1971)’.
2. The Instrument of Surrender 1971 was a written agreement that enabled the surrender of the Pakistan Armed Forces in the Bangladesh Liberation War 1971. Lieutenant-General A A K Niazi, joint commander of the Pakistan Armed Forces of East Pakistan contingent, and Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, joint commander of the Bangladesh-India Allied Forces, signed the instrument. The ceremony was witnessed by Air Commodore A. K. Khandker (the then Group Captain), Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Bangladesh Armed Forces, who was the lone representative of Bangladesh Government amongst the attendees of the ceremony.
3. Number of still photographs was taken to record this historical moment and was subsequently published in various newspapers, websites, journals, war museums, ceremonial brochures etc. One of these photographs is published in your website as well (under Surrender ceremony sub-head). Under this subheading it is mentioned, ``On behalf of Bangladesh, Air Commodore A.K Khandker acted as witness to the surrender.” However this particular picture does not include Air Commodore A. K. Khandker, who was standing (in civil dress) at the left of Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora as seen in the picture. Certain portion might have been cut from the picture to accommodate it within the webpage. As a result, the picture does not contain the only representative of Bangladesh Government present in the ceremony. It is to be further mentioned that the picture on surrender ceremony preserved in the Bangladesh Liberation War Museum also include the image of Air Commodore A.K Khandker.
4. In this context as the surrender picture is partially published, we think the visual depiction of the historical moment may not be comprehensive to the readers. Therefore, we recommend the publication of the picture in full including Air Commodore A. K. Khandker, who was the lone representative of Bangladesh Government as mentioned above. We would like to inform you that we possess the photograph and can be e-mailed to you if necessary.
5. Your response in this regard will be highly appreciated. Regards.
Major Shameem Ibne Moin General Staff Officer Grade 2 Government of the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh Prime Ministers Officer Civil and Military Relations Directorate Armed Forces Division Email Address- shameem7068@yahoo.com Cell Info 01769014378 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.97.142.118 ( talk) 03:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
@ MBlaze Lightning: You are very well aware of the discussion at Talk:Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. Civilians being part of POWs were discussed there. You reverted me saying that word "officials" cover family members of military personnel. I disagree with you on that. I am not sure if this should be even a discussion point and I am not sure which English do you use but the English I use does not describe kids of a military personnel as "officials". You were also notified about WP:ARBIPA which says that you are supposed to assume good faith towards other editors when you are working on Pakistan/India topics and calling other people POV pusher is opposite of assuming good faith. You need to cut down on the habit of calling others as POV pushers. Also, Please explain, why do you think that Bangladesh Liberation War is more relevant compared to Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 when describing instrument of surrender? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:31, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural move. Name is reverted to longstanding title. Discussion can take place from there if desired. — Amakuru ( talk) 15:58, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Pakistani Instrument of Surrender →
Instrument of Surrender (1971) – The official name of the document is "Instrument of Surrender", hence the original and preferred title per
WP:COMMONNAME. In any case, the current name was moved without prior discussion so it'd be helpful if the article could be moved back to the original, and any future move be performed after discussion on the talk page. –
Mar4d (
talk)
12:44, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''
or * '''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
The result of the move request was: page moved. ( non-admin closure) TonyBallioni ( talk) 18:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Instrument of Surrender (1971) → Pakistani Instrument of Surrender – Disambiguating the title with year is Absurd and misleading. Who!? surrendered here!? for what!? The official name of the document is "Instrument of Surrender"- YA YA THE Japanese and German documen was also named simple as "Instrument of Surrender". If we have Japanese Instrument of Surrender & German Instrument of Surrender; Why we can´t have a Pakistani Instrument of Surrender! Just because of some Pakistani editor said Wikipedia:I just don't like it!! 87.79.176.237 ( talk) 15:47, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
support Yes please. Pakistan surrendered in 1971. The page title doesn't tell me anything about which nation. In Bangla we always use the term Pakistan when we talk about the surrender. But as I am biased so I can understand if Pakistani editors dont like this title. I firmly believe that wiki should not take sides. If this title is not neutral then maybe we can use Instrument of surrender (Bangladesh liberation war). After all, it happened in the Bangladesh liberation war so it is perfectly fine to call it so. My preference is still to call it Pakistani instrument of surrender. Kiwigravity ( talk) 09:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
@ User:Mar4d: is it a fun or you don't care Wikipedia:Requested moves!? User:TonyBallioni is not an Admin but has right to do so as User:Mar11 and Kiwigravity also involved! show some respect and start a new move discussion first! — Gaurh ( talk) 22:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Truthwins018 ( talk) 20:42, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
A historical document under FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1969–1976, VOLUME XI, SOUTH ASIA CRISIS, 1971 from a meeting chaired by Henry A. Kissinger and including people from Defense, CIA, JCS and NCS also state "There are 20,000 loyal West Pakistani troops in East Pakistan" which was cited in the book of sharmila bose as the strength before Pakistan calling in more strength growing up to 45,000 of which 34,000 were soldiers.
This should be done to maintain
WP:NPOV.The best we can do is to change the "soldiers" to "prisoners" or mention the most authentic source from the commander himself of 45,000 soldiers in a range with 93,000 figure.
Truthwins018 (
talk)
17:19, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
References
A new (July 2023) account, Jee Fateh, tried to change what it said in the lead as follows. [3] আফতাবুজ্জামান has reverted to the previous version. [4]
Previous version | New account-holder's version |
---|---|
The surrender of 93,000 Pakistani soldiers was the largest surrender in terms of number of personnel since the end of World War II. [1] [2] | The surrender of 93,000 POWs out of which 34,000 were combatant troops, 11,000 were non-combatant troops and remaining 55,000 were the civilians; which was one of the largest surrenders in terms of numbers since the end of World War. [3] [4] [5] [6] |
There ought to be a section in the main body of the article dealing with this. This needs to express what is generally said, which is 93 thousand, using sources including military history books; though the retrospective by The Hindu is a good source and should be retained. Since the numbers are disputed, it should explain what other sources say. The lead should merely summarise this.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
References
More than 90,000...., the largest ever since World War 2.
surrender of 93,000 Pakistani soldiers, the largest surrender of armed forces post Second World War.
More than 90,000...., the largest ever since World War 2.
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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There is a picture on the Jagjit Singh Aurora page of the Instrument being signed ... I think that it should be included in this article ... any objections ???
-- Saggod 11:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
The image File:1971 surrender.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 01:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Were they repatriated? -- AW ( talk) 06:33, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The "surrender of East Pakistan" sounds like the Surrender of Japan or Surrender of Germany. The people of East Pakistan declared independence on March 26 and became Bangladesh. According the Instrument of Surrender, the Pakistan Eastern Command surrendered in Bangladesh. There was no such thing as East Pakistan on December 16!-- ArmanJ ( talk) 20:30, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Good Day
1. I am Major Shameem Ibne Moin, currently posted as a General Staff Officer Grade 2 in Armed Forces Division, Prime Minister’s Office, Government of the Peoples’ Republic of Bangladesh. I would like to put forward an observation regarding an article published in Wikipedia named ‘Instrument of Surrender (1971)’.
2. The Instrument of Surrender 1971 was a written agreement that enabled the surrender of the Pakistan Armed Forces in the Bangladesh Liberation War 1971. Lieutenant-General A A K Niazi, joint commander of the Pakistan Armed Forces of East Pakistan contingent, and Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, joint commander of the Bangladesh-India Allied Forces, signed the instrument. The ceremony was witnessed by Air Commodore A. K. Khandker (the then Group Captain), Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Bangladesh Armed Forces, who was the lone representative of Bangladesh Government amongst the attendees of the ceremony.
3. Number of still photographs was taken to record this historical moment and was subsequently published in various newspapers, websites, journals, war museums, ceremonial brochures etc. One of these photographs is published in your website as well (under Surrender ceremony sub-head). Under this subheading it is mentioned, ``On behalf of Bangladesh, Air Commodore A.K Khandker acted as witness to the surrender.” However this particular picture does not include Air Commodore A. K. Khandker, who was standing (in civil dress) at the left of Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora as seen in the picture. Certain portion might have been cut from the picture to accommodate it within the webpage. As a result, the picture does not contain the only representative of Bangladesh Government present in the ceremony. It is to be further mentioned that the picture on surrender ceremony preserved in the Bangladesh Liberation War Museum also include the image of Air Commodore A.K Khandker.
4. In this context as the surrender picture is partially published, we think the visual depiction of the historical moment may not be comprehensive to the readers. Therefore, we recommend the publication of the picture in full including Air Commodore A. K. Khandker, who was the lone representative of Bangladesh Government as mentioned above. We would like to inform you that we possess the photograph and can be e-mailed to you if necessary.
5. Your response in this regard will be highly appreciated. Regards.
Major Shameem Ibne Moin General Staff Officer Grade 2 Government of the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh Prime Ministers Officer Civil and Military Relations Directorate Armed Forces Division Email Address- shameem7068@yahoo.com Cell Info 01769014378 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.97.142.118 ( talk) 03:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
@ MBlaze Lightning: You are very well aware of the discussion at Talk:Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. Civilians being part of POWs were discussed there. You reverted me saying that word "officials" cover family members of military personnel. I disagree with you on that. I am not sure if this should be even a discussion point and I am not sure which English do you use but the English I use does not describe kids of a military personnel as "officials". You were also notified about WP:ARBIPA which says that you are supposed to assume good faith towards other editors when you are working on Pakistan/India topics and calling other people POV pusher is opposite of assuming good faith. You need to cut down on the habit of calling others as POV pushers. Also, Please explain, why do you think that Bangladesh Liberation War is more relevant compared to Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 when describing instrument of surrender? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:31, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural move. Name is reverted to longstanding title. Discussion can take place from there if desired. — Amakuru ( talk) 15:58, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Pakistani Instrument of Surrender →
Instrument of Surrender (1971) – The official name of the document is "Instrument of Surrender", hence the original and preferred title per
WP:COMMONNAME. In any case, the current name was moved without prior discussion so it'd be helpful if the article could be moved back to the original, and any future move be performed after discussion on the talk page. –
Mar4d (
talk)
12:44, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''
or * '''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
The result of the move request was: page moved. ( non-admin closure) TonyBallioni ( talk) 18:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Instrument of Surrender (1971) → Pakistani Instrument of Surrender – Disambiguating the title with year is Absurd and misleading. Who!? surrendered here!? for what!? The official name of the document is "Instrument of Surrender"- YA YA THE Japanese and German documen was also named simple as "Instrument of Surrender". If we have Japanese Instrument of Surrender & German Instrument of Surrender; Why we can´t have a Pakistani Instrument of Surrender! Just because of some Pakistani editor said Wikipedia:I just don't like it!! 87.79.176.237 ( talk) 15:47, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
support Yes please. Pakistan surrendered in 1971. The page title doesn't tell me anything about which nation. In Bangla we always use the term Pakistan when we talk about the surrender. But as I am biased so I can understand if Pakistani editors dont like this title. I firmly believe that wiki should not take sides. If this title is not neutral then maybe we can use Instrument of surrender (Bangladesh liberation war). After all, it happened in the Bangladesh liberation war so it is perfectly fine to call it so. My preference is still to call it Pakistani instrument of surrender. Kiwigravity ( talk) 09:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
@ User:Mar4d: is it a fun or you don't care Wikipedia:Requested moves!? User:TonyBallioni is not an Admin but has right to do so as User:Mar11 and Kiwigravity also involved! show some respect and start a new move discussion first! — Gaurh ( talk) 22:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Truthwins018 ( talk) 20:42, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
A historical document under FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1969–1976, VOLUME XI, SOUTH ASIA CRISIS, 1971 from a meeting chaired by Henry A. Kissinger and including people from Defense, CIA, JCS and NCS also state "There are 20,000 loyal West Pakistani troops in East Pakistan" which was cited in the book of sharmila bose as the strength before Pakistan calling in more strength growing up to 45,000 of which 34,000 were soldiers.
This should be done to maintain
WP:NPOV.The best we can do is to change the "soldiers" to "prisoners" or mention the most authentic source from the commander himself of 45,000 soldiers in a range with 93,000 figure.
Truthwins018 (
talk)
17:19, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
References
A new (July 2023) account, Jee Fateh, tried to change what it said in the lead as follows. [3] আফতাবুজ্জামান has reverted to the previous version. [4]
Previous version | New account-holder's version |
---|---|
The surrender of 93,000 Pakistani soldiers was the largest surrender in terms of number of personnel since the end of World War II. [1] [2] | The surrender of 93,000 POWs out of which 34,000 were combatant troops, 11,000 were non-combatant troops and remaining 55,000 were the civilians; which was one of the largest surrenders in terms of numbers since the end of World War. [3] [4] [5] [6] |
There ought to be a section in the main body of the article dealing with this. This needs to express what is generally said, which is 93 thousand, using sources including military history books; though the retrospective by The Hindu is a good source and should be retained. Since the numbers are disputed, it should explain what other sources say. The lead should merely summarise this.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
References
More than 90,000...., the largest ever since World War 2.
surrender of 93,000 Pakistani soldiers, the largest surrender of armed forces post Second World War.
More than 90,000...., the largest ever since World War 2.