This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
Matt,
Padding is, in some sense, a higher genus of thing than both whitening and use of an IV. I was attempting to use the reference to both here as 1) an invitation to follow the link and learn something and 2) an attempt to make clear that -- at least conceptually -- both are additions (in principle arbitrary) to plaintexts or keys and so something of the same type, however different the details.
A whitening article was, I suppose, in my future after some looking up of details I can't trust my memory to supply with fidelity. Sigh.
I suggest we reinstall mention of both whit and IV, with suitable notations as to the details of usage and such.
You might be interested to hear that I have finally had a penny drop. Seems like it took long enough. Many of the differences between you and I seem to be based in our attitude toward the reader. I keep always foremost in mind that the reader will be looking not only for facts but, being unfamiliar with the territory in many (most, nearly all, every?) case, and will benefit from explanation you deem surplus. Does this seem so to you as well? If so, do you have any suggestions as to how we might hit some middle ground on this dimension? ww 20:32, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
C,
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with the deletion. It's true that there is a virtue in parsimony and cross linking to avoid unnecessary use of server space, there is also a virtue in writing article that will be read. Connections to things people may have heard about (Admiral Halsey, Admiral Nimitz, the return to the Philipines (never can remember, 2'l's?) are a kind of syntactic sugar which makes the medicine go down in a most (can't remember this Sound of Music lyric either). Wetware bit decay surely.
WP is not written for a specialist audience (where possible) but to inform, which means the vagaries of Average Reader are something its writers must take into account. It' probably not possible except by hwordy andwaving for such things as any flavor of string theory or most any currently researched math or ....
This article isn't one of those.
Comment?
ww 02:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the correct name for it, but it is very common in software implemenations because it provides many integrity checks and is easy to implement —Preceding unsigned comment added by RealWorldExperience ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
This was removed from the article in toto for two reasons: poor writing style and poor citations. It also is the same material mentioned just above, I think. Should this be cleaned up and reinsetted or stay out even if cleaned up?
Side-Channel Attacks on Symmetric Encryption Schemes: The Case for Authenticated Encryption]. One could access for more info on padding to avoid common weakness
ww ( talk) 03:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Is there a specific ISO/IEC standard that defines padding methods independently of other operations? ISO/IEC 9797-1 ... MACs includes some padding methods, but defines them in the context of MACs (although the padding methods are independent of the MAC algorithms, so the 9797 padding methods can be used for operations other than MACs). ISO/IEC 10116 Modes of operation ... explicitly states that padding is not within its scope. Mitch Ames ( talk) 14:22, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Can someone please point here, why ISO10126 was withdrawn? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.61.251 ( talk) 17:46, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Are such comparisons out there, which padding might be more secure than other? -- RokerHRO ( talk) 21:57, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
The article says: "An example of streaming mode encryption is the counter mode of operation."
I'm not an expert on ciphers, but I believe this is incorrect. There are two high-level types of ciphers: stream ciphers (operating on a sequence of bits, bytes, or short blocks), and block ciphers (operating on larger pieces of input at once). It is probably ok to say that these types are converging, but it is not true that using these in different modes of operation changes their types. "CTR" mode is a way to use block ciphers, not a way to change stream ciphers into block ciphers.
Can someone with a good understanding of this please update the article?
It's technically correct, but a poor example. A cipher in counter mode can operate on either a block or a bit - the only distinction being that the input determining the next state of the encryption algorithm is solely from a sequence of numbers (the counter), instead of using the output of the encryption algorithm. I guess I'll update it to refer to a synchronous stream cipher. [Schneier, Bruce - 'Applied Cryptography' 2nd ed. p206]
Ok, I clearly don't know how to format stuff here. Punting that^ update, sorry.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
Matt,
Padding is, in some sense, a higher genus of thing than both whitening and use of an IV. I was attempting to use the reference to both here as 1) an invitation to follow the link and learn something and 2) an attempt to make clear that -- at least conceptually -- both are additions (in principle arbitrary) to plaintexts or keys and so something of the same type, however different the details.
A whitening article was, I suppose, in my future after some looking up of details I can't trust my memory to supply with fidelity. Sigh.
I suggest we reinstall mention of both whit and IV, with suitable notations as to the details of usage and such.
You might be interested to hear that I have finally had a penny drop. Seems like it took long enough. Many of the differences between you and I seem to be based in our attitude toward the reader. I keep always foremost in mind that the reader will be looking not only for facts but, being unfamiliar with the territory in many (most, nearly all, every?) case, and will benefit from explanation you deem surplus. Does this seem so to you as well? If so, do you have any suggestions as to how we might hit some middle ground on this dimension? ww 20:32, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
C,
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with the deletion. It's true that there is a virtue in parsimony and cross linking to avoid unnecessary use of server space, there is also a virtue in writing article that will be read. Connections to things people may have heard about (Admiral Halsey, Admiral Nimitz, the return to the Philipines (never can remember, 2'l's?) are a kind of syntactic sugar which makes the medicine go down in a most (can't remember this Sound of Music lyric either). Wetware bit decay surely.
WP is not written for a specialist audience (where possible) but to inform, which means the vagaries of Average Reader are something its writers must take into account. It' probably not possible except by hwordy andwaving for such things as any flavor of string theory or most any currently researched math or ....
This article isn't one of those.
Comment?
ww 02:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the correct name for it, but it is very common in software implemenations because it provides many integrity checks and is easy to implement —Preceding unsigned comment added by RealWorldExperience ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
This was removed from the article in toto for two reasons: poor writing style and poor citations. It also is the same material mentioned just above, I think. Should this be cleaned up and reinsetted or stay out even if cleaned up?
Side-Channel Attacks on Symmetric Encryption Schemes: The Case for Authenticated Encryption]. One could access for more info on padding to avoid common weakness
ww ( talk) 03:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Is there a specific ISO/IEC standard that defines padding methods independently of other operations? ISO/IEC 9797-1 ... MACs includes some padding methods, but defines them in the context of MACs (although the padding methods are independent of the MAC algorithms, so the 9797 padding methods can be used for operations other than MACs). ISO/IEC 10116 Modes of operation ... explicitly states that padding is not within its scope. Mitch Ames ( talk) 14:22, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Can someone please point here, why ISO10126 was withdrawn? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.61.251 ( talk) 17:46, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Are such comparisons out there, which padding might be more secure than other? -- RokerHRO ( talk) 21:57, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
The article says: "An example of streaming mode encryption is the counter mode of operation."
I'm not an expert on ciphers, but I believe this is incorrect. There are two high-level types of ciphers: stream ciphers (operating on a sequence of bits, bytes, or short blocks), and block ciphers (operating on larger pieces of input at once). It is probably ok to say that these types are converging, but it is not true that using these in different modes of operation changes their types. "CTR" mode is a way to use block ciphers, not a way to change stream ciphers into block ciphers.
Can someone with a good understanding of this please update the article?
It's technically correct, but a poor example. A cipher in counter mode can operate on either a block or a bit - the only distinction being that the input determining the next state of the encryption algorithm is solely from a sequence of numbers (the counter), instead of using the output of the encryption algorithm. I guess I'll update it to refer to a synchronous stream cipher. [Schneier, Bruce - 'Applied Cryptography' 2nd ed. p206]
Ok, I clearly don't know how to format stuff here. Punting that^ update, sorry.