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After "known as a power sweep," briefly describe the play itself (e.g. that it is a running play, and that the back runs parallel). See the regular "
Sweep" page for ideas.
Lombardi, along with other coaches and commentators, gave a lot of credit for the team's success in the 1960s to the Packers sweep. ===>>> Lombardi, along with other coaches and commentators, gave the Packers sweep a lot of credit for the team's success in the 1960s.
The sweep
The sweep is a running play in American football where a back ====>>> The sweep is a running play in American football where a back (typically the running back or half back) <<<=== add the part in parentheses
optional pass plays ===>> option pass plays
Lombardi era
later defined as an "offensive coordinator" ===>>> now known as an "offensive coordinator"
Even when defenses were shifted
optional pass plays ===> option pass plays
Other coaches in the league had great respect for the Packers sweep, <<<==== which other coaches?
Each of those offensive players was instrumental in the success ====>>> Each of those offensive players was instrumental to the success
different runners or optional pass plays ====>>> different runners or option pass plays
Many of these players identified Lombardi's coaching and drive for perfection as an important part ofkeys to their accomplishments and the team's success. (word choice could be better; maybe you can think of something else)
The Packers of the 1960s were dominant in all respects. ====>>> The Packers of the 1960s were dominant in many respects.
This dominance and continued success makemade the Packers sweep one of the most famous football plays in history. <<<=== Do you have a quote of someone calling it one of the most famous plays in history? I feel like that statement is
WP:PUFFERY unless you can attribute it to someone (or several people).
From
Ref 1: "Most of all, it is there in the images of one play, run over and over again, and in the voice of Ray Scott calling the most famous play in pro football history."
From
Ref 14: "Not only was Lombardi’s power sweep arguably the most famous play in football history, it also was one that required maximum precision in a sport where execution is pretty much the be-all and end-all of all plays."
I thought of adding the word "arguably" but instead I added "one of the most famous." I believe this accurately reflects the sources. If necessary, I may be able to find another reference or two from When Pride Still Mattered, A Life of Vince Lombardi. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 14:33, 21 September 2018 (UTC)reply
this line, " It was developed before its use by Lombardi and is known formally as a power sweep." I had to read a couple of times before I got what it said - I think it needs rewording.
Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
20:27, 26 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Unfortunately, there is a lot of information on the decline of the Packers in the 1970s and 1980s. None of my sources connect the dots between this play and their decline though. It had more to do with aging stars, Lombardi moving on from the team, and poor leadership/player development. I could add something saying as much, or just briefly mention that Lombardi left, and with it the use of the sweep declined. Other teams did try to replicate the Packers' success with the play, but all either fell short or did not sustain the success long enough or it to become notable. The sweep is still routinely run in American football today, but the overall decline of the running game and focus on the passing game has diminished its overall importance for the Packers and the NFL. Let me know what you think.
Here is a good overview of the decline of the Packers after the 1960s.
The legacy of the play is really summed up in that it epitomized the 1960s Packers and Lombardi's success. Let me know if there is more I can add to the Legacy section to make this clearer. Again, I really appreciate the assistance! « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 15:22, 27 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Casliber, I made a few unrelated edits
here c/e'ing the lead and reference clean-up. As a multi-page journal I was also thinking of moving reference 1 to the bibliography and then citing the page numbers. What is your opinion on taking that route, since this is a journal and not a book? « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 22:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)reply
It looks good, although this line (There was nothing special or spectacular about the Packers sweep.) might be superfluous. Look, I think it is worth a whirl at FAC.
Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
02:52, 5 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi there, nice article. The lead and legacy sections repeat sentences word for word. The intro and summary of an article should cover the same ground (to use a football pun), but build on ideas, not repeat phrases.
As a writer, I would like to suggest that you step back from being too fussed about quoting texts from citations, which should not be word for word copies anyways, and try and re-write the legacy sentences to freshen them up. Wikipedia must start from citations, but at some point, we need to actually sit down and "write an article".
I could do this for you, and I often do on articles, but reading the Talk page, you seem to be keen on the subject, and I think your writing development might benefit from editing your own work.
cheers
Ben
Hello Ben/IP 184. Although I appreciate the offer of a rewrite, as I am sure you are aware (and can see from the talk page) there have been numerous levels of reviews and revisions. A complete rewrite is most likely unnecessary and counterproductive (i.e it may be more beneficial for you to spend your time working on less complete articles, although how you choose to edit is obviously your prerogative), but constructive edits are always appreciated! Regarding citations, because the topic is about 50 years old, we really are limited to what is verifiable in the sources that are available. I think any fan of American football knows the narrative of how the passing game has taken over and teams aren't built for power running anymore, but unfortunately in my research there just aren't any sources that connect this trend with the Packers sweep falling into disuse (if you have one, please feel free to add it!). All that said, I did slightly reword the last sentence to make it more distinct from the lead (so it's not word-for-word). Regarding the lead, I try to follow
MOS:LEAD, however, again, if there are any helpful edits you want to make, go for it! Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 15:17, 14 March 2019 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wisconsin, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Wisconsin on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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After "known as a power sweep," briefly describe the play itself (e.g. that it is a running play, and that the back runs parallel). See the regular "
Sweep" page for ideas.
Lombardi, along with other coaches and commentators, gave a lot of credit for the team's success in the 1960s to the Packers sweep. ===>>> Lombardi, along with other coaches and commentators, gave the Packers sweep a lot of credit for the team's success in the 1960s.
The sweep
The sweep is a running play in American football where a back ====>>> The sweep is a running play in American football where a back (typically the running back or half back) <<<=== add the part in parentheses
optional pass plays ===>> option pass plays
Lombardi era
later defined as an "offensive coordinator" ===>>> now known as an "offensive coordinator"
Even when defenses were shifted
optional pass plays ===> option pass plays
Other coaches in the league had great respect for the Packers sweep, <<<==== which other coaches?
Each of those offensive players was instrumental in the success ====>>> Each of those offensive players was instrumental to the success
different runners or optional pass plays ====>>> different runners or option pass plays
Many of these players identified Lombardi's coaching and drive for perfection as an important part ofkeys to their accomplishments and the team's success. (word choice could be better; maybe you can think of something else)
The Packers of the 1960s were dominant in all respects. ====>>> The Packers of the 1960s were dominant in many respects.
This dominance and continued success makemade the Packers sweep one of the most famous football plays in history. <<<=== Do you have a quote of someone calling it one of the most famous plays in history? I feel like that statement is
WP:PUFFERY unless you can attribute it to someone (or several people).
From
Ref 1: "Most of all, it is there in the images of one play, run over and over again, and in the voice of Ray Scott calling the most famous play in pro football history."
From
Ref 14: "Not only was Lombardi’s power sweep arguably the most famous play in football history, it also was one that required maximum precision in a sport where execution is pretty much the be-all and end-all of all plays."
I thought of adding the word "arguably" but instead I added "one of the most famous." I believe this accurately reflects the sources. If necessary, I may be able to find another reference or two from When Pride Still Mattered, A Life of Vince Lombardi. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 14:33, 21 September 2018 (UTC)reply
this line, " It was developed before its use by Lombardi and is known formally as a power sweep." I had to read a couple of times before I got what it said - I think it needs rewording.
Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
20:27, 26 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Unfortunately, there is a lot of information on the decline of the Packers in the 1970s and 1980s. None of my sources connect the dots between this play and their decline though. It had more to do with aging stars, Lombardi moving on from the team, and poor leadership/player development. I could add something saying as much, or just briefly mention that Lombardi left, and with it the use of the sweep declined. Other teams did try to replicate the Packers' success with the play, but all either fell short or did not sustain the success long enough or it to become notable. The sweep is still routinely run in American football today, but the overall decline of the running game and focus on the passing game has diminished its overall importance for the Packers and the NFL. Let me know what you think.
Here is a good overview of the decline of the Packers after the 1960s.
The legacy of the play is really summed up in that it epitomized the 1960s Packers and Lombardi's success. Let me know if there is more I can add to the Legacy section to make this clearer. Again, I really appreciate the assistance! « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 15:22, 27 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Casliber, I made a few unrelated edits
here c/e'ing the lead and reference clean-up. As a multi-page journal I was also thinking of moving reference 1 to the bibliography and then citing the page numbers. What is your opinion on taking that route, since this is a journal and not a book? « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 22:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)reply
It looks good, although this line (There was nothing special or spectacular about the Packers sweep.) might be superfluous. Look, I think it is worth a whirl at FAC.
Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
02:52, 5 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi there, nice article. The lead and legacy sections repeat sentences word for word. The intro and summary of an article should cover the same ground (to use a football pun), but build on ideas, not repeat phrases.
As a writer, I would like to suggest that you step back from being too fussed about quoting texts from citations, which should not be word for word copies anyways, and try and re-write the legacy sentences to freshen them up. Wikipedia must start from citations, but at some point, we need to actually sit down and "write an article".
I could do this for you, and I often do on articles, but reading the Talk page, you seem to be keen on the subject, and I think your writing development might benefit from editing your own work.
cheers
Ben
Hello Ben/IP 184. Although I appreciate the offer of a rewrite, as I am sure you are aware (and can see from the talk page) there have been numerous levels of reviews and revisions. A complete rewrite is most likely unnecessary and counterproductive (i.e it may be more beneficial for you to spend your time working on less complete articles, although how you choose to edit is obviously your prerogative), but constructive edits are always appreciated! Regarding citations, because the topic is about 50 years old, we really are limited to what is verifiable in the sources that are available. I think any fan of American football knows the narrative of how the passing game has taken over and teams aren't built for power running anymore, but unfortunately in my research there just aren't any sources that connect this trend with the Packers sweep falling into disuse (if you have one, please feel free to add it!). All that said, I did slightly reword the last sentence to make it more distinct from the lead (so it's not word-for-word). Regarding the lead, I try to follow
MOS:LEAD, however, again, if there are any helpful edits you want to make, go for it! Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 15:17, 14 March 2019 (UTC)reply