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This is now a first-class piece of work; I corrected gross errors years ago, now I come back and find a masterpiece!
I changed the name of one of the Cessna pilots from "David T Boswell" to "David Boswell". The only source I can find that say the middile initial was T is this wikipedia article. Multiple independent sources found with google say his name was "David Lee Boswell". For now took the middle ground and eliminated the middle name altogether, but I'm leaning towards using "Lee'. - Itsfullofstars 02:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words. It's interesting that the official NTSB report states his name was, in fact, David T Boswell after all (I just found it in the report a minute ago). I wonder why so many other sources use David Lee Boswell instead? In any case, I agree that it's probably best to leave the middle name out. I guess an online social security death record search would clear it up, though... Or does that constitute 'original research'?? Itsfullofstars 00:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I think an interesting section of the official NTSB report where a member strongly dissented with the majority findings deserved some mention, so I tried to summarize it in the main article. By all means feel free to edit that new paragraph I added if anyone feels my summary isn't quite right. Itsfullofstars 00:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Each time I read the assertion in the article that the names of the deceased PSA employees aboard the plane were broadcast on TV within the hour of the crash, I have to wonder about that. Wouldn't the normal custom be that there would be a waiting period while the next of kin were being notified, or was that etiquette broached in this particular case? There were 38 PSA employees on board. I doubt the next of kin of that many people could have been notified so quickly, unless TV reported just the names of the PSA flight crew, which would still make the article's sentence misleading and in need of a re-write. I added a Citation Needed flag to the sentence in question. Itsfullofstars 05:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
It turns out that the statement was added by an anonymous user ( Special:Contributions/70.59.192.134 on 9 July 2006, and another comment added at the same time wasn't very encyclopedic. I looked for any verification of the 'within the hour' statement, and was unable to find any so I've removed it. Itsfullofstars 03:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I used to live in Northpark and was still in the San Diego area when this crash happened. At the time, I recall there was a brief video clip of Flight 182 going down (in fact, one of the more common photos you see from the crash looks like it might have been a still from that brief video clip). At one point a couple of years ago, I thought I stumbled across a site that had a link to that video clip, but when I clicked on it, it looked like the link no longer worked. Now I can't even seem to find the page that had that link. Does anyone else remember the actual video or know if that clip is online? JSDA ( talk) 05:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Cameraman Steve Howell of Channel 39 recorded the final moments of the Cessna spiraling to its demise and inevitably landing on 32nd and Polk Street some 3500 feet from the PSA impact point. Howell did not record the descent of the PSA-182 but panned toward the PSA fireball after the Cessna crashed. Some of this footage has appeared in several aviation documentaries on NBC/MSNBC and other media outlets over the years. There is purported - unintentional - footage recorded from some distance away of the final moments of PSA-182. A commercial was being filmed some distance from the point of impact and the camera crew picked up the final moments of the flight. And finally, there is of course the post impact footage that was filmed by news crews. This uncensored footage eventually made its way into the highly sensationalized "Faces of Death" movie series. Halycondaze ( talk) 19:28, 17 May 2013 (UTC) I was 19 at the time of the PSA 182 crash. I watched the evening news right after the crash, and I distinctly recall seeing video footage of the collision, or its immediate aftermath. I have never seen this footage since, as though there has been some attempt to conceal it from the public. Given some of the videos of subsequent crashes, I can't imagine why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.77.135 ( talk) 22:58, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
On The View in the spring of 2009 Whoopi Goldberg cited, as a reason for declining to travel by air, having seen in CY 1978 a collision between an airliner and a small aircraft. I don't know what connection Goldberg had to San Diego, but this seems to be the event that she was referring to. knoodelhed ( talk) 17:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
9-11-2009 ************************************************************************************** —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.55.6 ( talk) 02:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC) Whoopi used to live in North Park, She used to work at the Big Kitchen restaurant in the neighborhood. She was there at the time. - Jonnyredrum@Cox.net
The article states:
It couldn't be doing both. I know the crash scene and the pattern for Lindbergh well and it couldn't have been on final there. In fact, it was where a lot of aircraft turn base for Lindbergh field. It must have been on downwind, base or turning base.
according to the page history, see above comment seems to be from Rsduhamel
Both aircraft were headed east. The PSA jet was on its downwind leg just turning into a 180 degree right turn that would have put it into its final westerly approach into Lindbergh. Chloe93 ( talk) 22:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The following doesn't sound very encyclopedic- "Monday morning, September 25, 1978, was an unusually warm day in San Diego. Southern California was experiencing what locals call a "Santa Ana winds" day."
It also sounds like one person's opinion. Who decides if it is a "unusually warm day in San Diego"?
And this-"Southern California was experiencing what locals call a "Santa Ana winds" day." is just as bad. I will be removing it to make the article read better.-- 99.177.250.140 ( talk) 00:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Currently, there is a paragraph stating that this accident is used in flight training. While this is true, it is also true about a lot of other accidents in aviation. Many flight instructors use examples to stress their point. As far as I know, it is never mentioned in other articles about aviation accidents and I feel it doesn't need to be mentioned. The major goal at accident investigation is to learn from mistakes - so it is kind of obvious that accidents are also mentioned in flight instruction. I would like to delete those two sentences about flight training (see Aftermath in the middle of that section). What do you think? WideBlueSky ( talk) 10:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Dawnseeker2000-- the link to the video "Blind Spot," as placed in the External Links section, is entirely appropriate. As you can see. there are links to other copyrighted material there. Using your reasoning, we must remove all photos and links created by people other than wikipedia authors. This would apply to the thousands of other articles that have links to copyrighted material on wikipedia. In other words, you can't have it both ways. Chloe93 ( talk) 18:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Both from the San Diego Union-Tribune:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 01:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The main photograph was originally the famous photo of the plane right before it crashed into the houses. Sometime ago, that was changed to the "artist's impression" of the collision. When I logged on yesterday, someone had made the main photograph the image currently placed on the right-hand side of the page. When I logged on today, the image had been replaced with the artist's impression again. Is that because it is an impression of the actual crash, rather than the aftermath, or is it for some other reason? Could someone please explain what the policy is (if there is one)? Bzcoolness ( talk) 21:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)Bzcoolness
I don't know the answer to your question, but the "artist's impression" is horribly out of proportion: the 727's wingspan is 108', fuselage diameter is 12', yet the ratio in the picture is barely 3:1 even if you measure them at the wing root to ignore the perspective effect. In fact the picture is horrible full stop, like something out of a kids cartoon. If nothing else can be found, better to have no picture at all. 86.5.176.168 ( talk) 12:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Re: PSA 182 and non essential conversation. I got an e-mail from Cineflix. They pointed to p. 33 of the report.
And I can confirm that it does say in the report, as stated in the e-mail,
Cineflix said that the conversation was not a causal factor, i.e. the crash not attributable to this conversation, but that the NTSB has cited PSA 182 as an example of non-essential conversation, an example of what could be dangerous. Cineflix also said that examples like PSA 182 influenced the introduction of sterile cockpit rules. WhisperToMe ( talk) 20:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Does anybody else find that the CVR transcript (at least the way it is currently presented) detracts from the text of the article, rather than enhancing it? 86.5.176.168 ( talk) 12:50, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
How so? The CVR transcript is weaved deftly into the narrative. Halycondaze ( talk) 19:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
What's with the writing in this?
"Flight 182's crew never explicitly alerted the tower that they had lost sight of the Cessna. If they had made this clear to controllers, the crash might not have happened. Also, if the Cessna had maintained the heading of 70 degrees assigned to it by ATC instead of turning to 90 degrees, the NTSB estimates the planes would have missed each other by about 1000 feet (300 meters) instead of colliding. Ultimately, the NTSB maintained that regardless of that change in course, it was the responsibility of the crew in the overtaking jet to comply with the regulatory requirement to pass "well clear" of the Cessna."
Seriously? No citations or anything, just useless assumption and afterthought. This is stupid. 2602:306:CCEE:CD90:6A1C:A2FF:FE02:4C44 ( talk) 01:04, 10 July 2013 (UTC) I don't give a fuck about signiatures or wikipedia, just biased BS.
The following paragraph is wholly uncited and appears to have been written with a desire to titillate rather than inform. I seek consensus for its deletion.— Spintendo Talk 16:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
"The accident was notable for the extreme carnage it created, as the 727's fuselage from the cockpit to the rear stairs had been compressed into a roughly 12 x 6 ft area, which caused the left side of the aircraft to burst open all in less than one second. Most of the passengers and crew were ejected from the plane and mutilated from impact forces and compression. An officer from the San Diego Police Academy assigned to work the scene that day said, "There were no bodies to speak of - only pieces. One alley was just filled with arms, legs, and feet... I was no stranger to dead bodies, but I wasn't ready to see the torso of a stewardess slammed against a car.... The heat of the fires and the sun made the whole scene surreal. We couldn't drink enough water. All around us was the stench of kerosene and burning flesh. We did our job by rote, locating the pieces so the SWAT team could mark the spot and cover the body parts". Only four bodies, First Officer Fox, two flight attendants, and one passenger, were found intact.
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This paragraph doesn't have any citations, plus some of the sentences seem to be the writer's personal opinions. Some of these opinions are backed up by first class accounts that reported similar sentiment (such as the veteran newscasters), but aren't backed up by any sources.
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 00:11, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
PSA Flight 182 → Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 182 – I think it is wise to move the page to be more consistent with Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771, and Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 710. If my proposal is unacceptable, we could do the opposite and replace the full names of the other two crashes with their abbreviations. Scorpions13256 ( talk) 23:07, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I >had< to change the dark grey background color of the radio communications in the CVR/ATC transcripts. Black text on dark grey is very hard on my post-middle-age eyes. I couldn't focus on the text, so I changed the background color to a pastel blue, chosen from a table at https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-chart/. If someone thinks that's not an improvement (maybe the color I picked isn't good for the color-blind?), feel free to choose some other color, but PLEASE don't use a dark color as a background if the text is going to stay black. Thank you. = Itsfullofstars ( talk) 02:59, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
Different aircraft can have the same registration (though not at the same time, of course). The aircraft shown is the initial 172 model, built between 1956 and 1959, recognizable by its straight vertical tail and "fastback" fuselage. The 172 involved in the midair is a 172M, built between 1973 and 1976. This model has a swept vertical tail and a cabin rear window. Raywode ( talk) 17:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This is now a first-class piece of work; I corrected gross errors years ago, now I come back and find a masterpiece!
I changed the name of one of the Cessna pilots from "David T Boswell" to "David Boswell". The only source I can find that say the middile initial was T is this wikipedia article. Multiple independent sources found with google say his name was "David Lee Boswell". For now took the middle ground and eliminated the middle name altogether, but I'm leaning towards using "Lee'. - Itsfullofstars 02:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words. It's interesting that the official NTSB report states his name was, in fact, David T Boswell after all (I just found it in the report a minute ago). I wonder why so many other sources use David Lee Boswell instead? In any case, I agree that it's probably best to leave the middle name out. I guess an online social security death record search would clear it up, though... Or does that constitute 'original research'?? Itsfullofstars 00:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I think an interesting section of the official NTSB report where a member strongly dissented with the majority findings deserved some mention, so I tried to summarize it in the main article. By all means feel free to edit that new paragraph I added if anyone feels my summary isn't quite right. Itsfullofstars 00:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Each time I read the assertion in the article that the names of the deceased PSA employees aboard the plane were broadcast on TV within the hour of the crash, I have to wonder about that. Wouldn't the normal custom be that there would be a waiting period while the next of kin were being notified, or was that etiquette broached in this particular case? There were 38 PSA employees on board. I doubt the next of kin of that many people could have been notified so quickly, unless TV reported just the names of the PSA flight crew, which would still make the article's sentence misleading and in need of a re-write. I added a Citation Needed flag to the sentence in question. Itsfullofstars 05:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
It turns out that the statement was added by an anonymous user ( Special:Contributions/70.59.192.134 on 9 July 2006, and another comment added at the same time wasn't very encyclopedic. I looked for any verification of the 'within the hour' statement, and was unable to find any so I've removed it. Itsfullofstars 03:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I used to live in Northpark and was still in the San Diego area when this crash happened. At the time, I recall there was a brief video clip of Flight 182 going down (in fact, one of the more common photos you see from the crash looks like it might have been a still from that brief video clip). At one point a couple of years ago, I thought I stumbled across a site that had a link to that video clip, but when I clicked on it, it looked like the link no longer worked. Now I can't even seem to find the page that had that link. Does anyone else remember the actual video or know if that clip is online? JSDA ( talk) 05:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Cameraman Steve Howell of Channel 39 recorded the final moments of the Cessna spiraling to its demise and inevitably landing on 32nd and Polk Street some 3500 feet from the PSA impact point. Howell did not record the descent of the PSA-182 but panned toward the PSA fireball after the Cessna crashed. Some of this footage has appeared in several aviation documentaries on NBC/MSNBC and other media outlets over the years. There is purported - unintentional - footage recorded from some distance away of the final moments of PSA-182. A commercial was being filmed some distance from the point of impact and the camera crew picked up the final moments of the flight. And finally, there is of course the post impact footage that was filmed by news crews. This uncensored footage eventually made its way into the highly sensationalized "Faces of Death" movie series. Halycondaze ( talk) 19:28, 17 May 2013 (UTC) I was 19 at the time of the PSA 182 crash. I watched the evening news right after the crash, and I distinctly recall seeing video footage of the collision, or its immediate aftermath. I have never seen this footage since, as though there has been some attempt to conceal it from the public. Given some of the videos of subsequent crashes, I can't imagine why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.77.135 ( talk) 22:58, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
On The View in the spring of 2009 Whoopi Goldberg cited, as a reason for declining to travel by air, having seen in CY 1978 a collision between an airliner and a small aircraft. I don't know what connection Goldberg had to San Diego, but this seems to be the event that she was referring to. knoodelhed ( talk) 17:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
9-11-2009 ************************************************************************************** —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.55.6 ( talk) 02:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC) Whoopi used to live in North Park, She used to work at the Big Kitchen restaurant in the neighborhood. She was there at the time. - Jonnyredrum@Cox.net
The article states:
It couldn't be doing both. I know the crash scene and the pattern for Lindbergh well and it couldn't have been on final there. In fact, it was where a lot of aircraft turn base for Lindbergh field. It must have been on downwind, base or turning base.
according to the page history, see above comment seems to be from Rsduhamel
Both aircraft were headed east. The PSA jet was on its downwind leg just turning into a 180 degree right turn that would have put it into its final westerly approach into Lindbergh. Chloe93 ( talk) 22:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The following doesn't sound very encyclopedic- "Monday morning, September 25, 1978, was an unusually warm day in San Diego. Southern California was experiencing what locals call a "Santa Ana winds" day."
It also sounds like one person's opinion. Who decides if it is a "unusually warm day in San Diego"?
And this-"Southern California was experiencing what locals call a "Santa Ana winds" day." is just as bad. I will be removing it to make the article read better.-- 99.177.250.140 ( talk) 00:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Currently, there is a paragraph stating that this accident is used in flight training. While this is true, it is also true about a lot of other accidents in aviation. Many flight instructors use examples to stress their point. As far as I know, it is never mentioned in other articles about aviation accidents and I feel it doesn't need to be mentioned. The major goal at accident investigation is to learn from mistakes - so it is kind of obvious that accidents are also mentioned in flight instruction. I would like to delete those two sentences about flight training (see Aftermath in the middle of that section). What do you think? WideBlueSky ( talk) 10:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Dawnseeker2000-- the link to the video "Blind Spot," as placed in the External Links section, is entirely appropriate. As you can see. there are links to other copyrighted material there. Using your reasoning, we must remove all photos and links created by people other than wikipedia authors. This would apply to the thousands of other articles that have links to copyrighted material on wikipedia. In other words, you can't have it both ways. Chloe93 ( talk) 18:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Both from the San Diego Union-Tribune:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 01:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The main photograph was originally the famous photo of the plane right before it crashed into the houses. Sometime ago, that was changed to the "artist's impression" of the collision. When I logged on yesterday, someone had made the main photograph the image currently placed on the right-hand side of the page. When I logged on today, the image had been replaced with the artist's impression again. Is that because it is an impression of the actual crash, rather than the aftermath, or is it for some other reason? Could someone please explain what the policy is (if there is one)? Bzcoolness ( talk) 21:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)Bzcoolness
I don't know the answer to your question, but the "artist's impression" is horribly out of proportion: the 727's wingspan is 108', fuselage diameter is 12', yet the ratio in the picture is barely 3:1 even if you measure them at the wing root to ignore the perspective effect. In fact the picture is horrible full stop, like something out of a kids cartoon. If nothing else can be found, better to have no picture at all. 86.5.176.168 ( talk) 12:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Re: PSA 182 and non essential conversation. I got an e-mail from Cineflix. They pointed to p. 33 of the report.
And I can confirm that it does say in the report, as stated in the e-mail,
Cineflix said that the conversation was not a causal factor, i.e. the crash not attributable to this conversation, but that the NTSB has cited PSA 182 as an example of non-essential conversation, an example of what could be dangerous. Cineflix also said that examples like PSA 182 influenced the introduction of sterile cockpit rules. WhisperToMe ( talk) 20:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Does anybody else find that the CVR transcript (at least the way it is currently presented) detracts from the text of the article, rather than enhancing it? 86.5.176.168 ( talk) 12:50, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
How so? The CVR transcript is weaved deftly into the narrative. Halycondaze ( talk) 19:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
What's with the writing in this?
"Flight 182's crew never explicitly alerted the tower that they had lost sight of the Cessna. If they had made this clear to controllers, the crash might not have happened. Also, if the Cessna had maintained the heading of 70 degrees assigned to it by ATC instead of turning to 90 degrees, the NTSB estimates the planes would have missed each other by about 1000 feet (300 meters) instead of colliding. Ultimately, the NTSB maintained that regardless of that change in course, it was the responsibility of the crew in the overtaking jet to comply with the regulatory requirement to pass "well clear" of the Cessna."
Seriously? No citations or anything, just useless assumption and afterthought. This is stupid. 2602:306:CCEE:CD90:6A1C:A2FF:FE02:4C44 ( talk) 01:04, 10 July 2013 (UTC) I don't give a fuck about signiatures or wikipedia, just biased BS.
The following paragraph is wholly uncited and appears to have been written with a desire to titillate rather than inform. I seek consensus for its deletion.— Spintendo Talk 16:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
"The accident was notable for the extreme carnage it created, as the 727's fuselage from the cockpit to the rear stairs had been compressed into a roughly 12 x 6 ft area, which caused the left side of the aircraft to burst open all in less than one second. Most of the passengers and crew were ejected from the plane and mutilated from impact forces and compression. An officer from the San Diego Police Academy assigned to work the scene that day said, "There were no bodies to speak of - only pieces. One alley was just filled with arms, legs, and feet... I was no stranger to dead bodies, but I wasn't ready to see the torso of a stewardess slammed against a car.... The heat of the fires and the sun made the whole scene surreal. We couldn't drink enough water. All around us was the stench of kerosene and burning flesh. We did our job by rote, locating the pieces so the SWAT team could mark the spot and cover the body parts". Only four bodies, First Officer Fox, two flight attendants, and one passenger, were found intact.
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This paragraph doesn't have any citations, plus some of the sentences seem to be the writer's personal opinions. Some of these opinions are backed up by first class accounts that reported similar sentiment (such as the veteran newscasters), but aren't backed up by any sources.
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 00:11, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
PSA Flight 182 → Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 182 – I think it is wise to move the page to be more consistent with Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771, and Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 710. If my proposal is unacceptable, we could do the opposite and replace the full names of the other two crashes with their abbreviations. Scorpions13256 ( talk) 23:07, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I >had< to change the dark grey background color of the radio communications in the CVR/ATC transcripts. Black text on dark grey is very hard on my post-middle-age eyes. I couldn't focus on the text, so I changed the background color to a pastel blue, chosen from a table at https://htmlcolorcodes.com/color-chart/. If someone thinks that's not an improvement (maybe the color I picked isn't good for the color-blind?), feel free to choose some other color, but PLEASE don't use a dark color as a background if the text is going to stay black. Thank you. = Itsfullofstars ( talk) 02:59, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
Different aircraft can have the same registration (though not at the same time, of course). The aircraft shown is the initial 172 model, built between 1956 and 1959, recognizable by its straight vertical tail and "fastback" fuselage. The 172 involved in the midair is a 172M, built between 1973 and 1976. This model has a swept vertical tail and a cabin rear window. Raywode ( talk) 17:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)