This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pacific Northwest English article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 22 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lmshaw00.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
A couple issues with this page:
In short, I'm requesting a strong source about the PNW culture "transcending national boundaries". I mentioned above a strong source that says exactly the opposite. Also the Making Wawa reference does not seem to back up what is being claimed. And The Great Columbia Plain backs up only a small point of a much broader claim. Either better sources should be added, or the claims should be weakened to match what the sources say. Pfly ( talk) 11:39, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
@ Pfly: Somewhat along the same vein as your previous doubts, Pfly, at least about the Fairbanks, Alaska connection, I am now trying to find out whether the distinctive Alaskan accent -- at least the presumed one that the U.S. was famously exposed to via Sarah Palin -- really falls under Pacific Northwest English. Linguistic giant Prof. Labov says in an NPR interview that when comparing Palin with "the two speakers from her area in our Atlas of North American English, she measures up pretty good," which is odd of him to say, since Alaska is actually one of the most poorly defined regions in the whole Atlas. The entire 300-page Atlas, in fact, only mentions Alaska in one pitiful sentence and with nothing particularly defining: "The two Alaskan speakers studied by Telsur do not resemble the West strongly enough to be included in that region, but there is not enough data on Alaska to assign it separate status" (p. 141). This seems to suggest that Alaska may well have its own dialect and so I'm now seeking any studies related to that. But in the meantime, how is the normally precise Labov so sure in his interview that Alaska is home to "a northwestern dialect," as he says? The strongest features he can give as evidence (at least, on the fly during the interview) are pretty lame. First, he suggests that her /oʊ/ is neither monophthongal (like in Minnesota) nor fronted (like in the South). But this can also be said about the same vowel in all of the West, the Inland North, and the Northeast (ranging from Maine all the way down to New York City). Second, she has a (presumably continuous) nasal short-a system. But so does most of the U.S. (In fact, the only U.S. speaker I've ever personally known without some variation of the nasal system was a Hawaiian, who very noticeably to my ears pronounced "mainland" as [ˈmeɪnlænd], rather than the more common [ˈmeɪnlɛənd].) Anyone else know of any info about Alaskan English? Wolfdog ( talk) 18:32, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
While the phonetic alphabet is useful for guitar who've studied linguistics, it would be nice if the article could use examples with each specific characteristic of the region so non linguists can actually understand without looking up the phonetic alphabet chart. -- Kraftlos ( Talk | Contrib) 19:27, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
The "Words and Phrases" section has gotten better. Earlier it overstated the current use of Chinook Jargon words: the only ones I've heard and say are "potlatch" and "muckamuck" (although I thought it was "mucky-muck"). The current list surprised me because I thought "sunbreak" and "black ice" were standard American words, "spendy" has a somewhere-else feel about it, and "rig" is specifically a mobile home/trailer or a freight truck, not a regular car or SUV. "Black ice" may be peculiar to this region because we have more of it, because of night/day temperatures spanning the freezing point. I have never heard of "duff". Sluggoster ( talk) 05:17, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
"Tolo" should be added to the list of regionalisms. Two pages that mention this as a PNW thing:
/info/en/?search=Sadie_Hawkins_dance
/info/en/?search=Chinook_Jargon#Chinook_Jargon_words_used_by_English-language_speakers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.160.182.113 ( talk) 00:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Lifelong Washingtonian I’ve never heard muck a muck. It was always muckedy muck. One other word we use is crick instead of creek. Outside of Washington crick isn’t usually recognized. 2601:603:80:4200:29A4:2350:3422:5262 ( talk) 12:10, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pacific Northwest English article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 22 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lmshaw00.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
A couple issues with this page:
In short, I'm requesting a strong source about the PNW culture "transcending national boundaries". I mentioned above a strong source that says exactly the opposite. Also the Making Wawa reference does not seem to back up what is being claimed. And The Great Columbia Plain backs up only a small point of a much broader claim. Either better sources should be added, or the claims should be weakened to match what the sources say. Pfly ( talk) 11:39, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
@ Pfly: Somewhat along the same vein as your previous doubts, Pfly, at least about the Fairbanks, Alaska connection, I am now trying to find out whether the distinctive Alaskan accent -- at least the presumed one that the U.S. was famously exposed to via Sarah Palin -- really falls under Pacific Northwest English. Linguistic giant Prof. Labov says in an NPR interview that when comparing Palin with "the two speakers from her area in our Atlas of North American English, she measures up pretty good," which is odd of him to say, since Alaska is actually one of the most poorly defined regions in the whole Atlas. The entire 300-page Atlas, in fact, only mentions Alaska in one pitiful sentence and with nothing particularly defining: "The two Alaskan speakers studied by Telsur do not resemble the West strongly enough to be included in that region, but there is not enough data on Alaska to assign it separate status" (p. 141). This seems to suggest that Alaska may well have its own dialect and so I'm now seeking any studies related to that. But in the meantime, how is the normally precise Labov so sure in his interview that Alaska is home to "a northwestern dialect," as he says? The strongest features he can give as evidence (at least, on the fly during the interview) are pretty lame. First, he suggests that her /oʊ/ is neither monophthongal (like in Minnesota) nor fronted (like in the South). But this can also be said about the same vowel in all of the West, the Inland North, and the Northeast (ranging from Maine all the way down to New York City). Second, she has a (presumably continuous) nasal short-a system. But so does most of the U.S. (In fact, the only U.S. speaker I've ever personally known without some variation of the nasal system was a Hawaiian, who very noticeably to my ears pronounced "mainland" as [ˈmeɪnlænd], rather than the more common [ˈmeɪnlɛənd].) Anyone else know of any info about Alaskan English? Wolfdog ( talk) 18:32, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
While the phonetic alphabet is useful for guitar who've studied linguistics, it would be nice if the article could use examples with each specific characteristic of the region so non linguists can actually understand without looking up the phonetic alphabet chart. -- Kraftlos ( Talk | Contrib) 19:27, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
The "Words and Phrases" section has gotten better. Earlier it overstated the current use of Chinook Jargon words: the only ones I've heard and say are "potlatch" and "muckamuck" (although I thought it was "mucky-muck"). The current list surprised me because I thought "sunbreak" and "black ice" were standard American words, "spendy" has a somewhere-else feel about it, and "rig" is specifically a mobile home/trailer or a freight truck, not a regular car or SUV. "Black ice" may be peculiar to this region because we have more of it, because of night/day temperatures spanning the freezing point. I have never heard of "duff". Sluggoster ( talk) 05:17, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
"Tolo" should be added to the list of regionalisms. Two pages that mention this as a PNW thing:
/info/en/?search=Sadie_Hawkins_dance
/info/en/?search=Chinook_Jargon#Chinook_Jargon_words_used_by_English-language_speakers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.160.182.113 ( talk) 00:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Lifelong Washingtonian I’ve never heard muck a muck. It was always muckedy muck. One other word we use is crick instead of creek. Outside of Washington crick isn’t usually recognized. 2601:603:80:4200:29A4:2350:3422:5262 ( talk) 12:10, 2 December 2022 (UTC)