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![]() | The contents of the Astor Expedition page were merged into Pacific Fur Company on 01 December 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I can never keep them straight; one was the PFC-cum-NWC post, the other a never-quite HBC post; the HBC took over the NWC in 1821, and the name slowly became Fort Kamloops I guess. But which was it at the start? What other APC posts were there in the Interior - I know there were some. I'll try and get writing Ft Kamloops/Shuswap/Thompson once I straighten out whose was which, and after I get Fort McLoughlin and Fort Simpson (Pacific coast) started..... Skookum1 ( talk) 16:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
It's way more complicaed than that and "duress" is certainly a POV interpretation of the situation which led to the transfer of the fort; it was the partners in charge, who happened to be the Canadians (Hunt was absent, up talking to the Russians), and the scenario included factors like the collapse of the sea otter population and a gathering of ships and men taking refuge from a rising environment of regular warlike hostilities farther north, particularly the destruction of the Boston but also others, and the fort's resources and morale were under strain. By the way, sea otter is, by the way, what was meant by "beaver" in the records of the coastal trade, according to one old-era historian I've been reading (Bancroft, Begg or Scholefield & Howay). Yes, it was anticipated a warship would arrive to seize the fort (as the US had no Pacific Fleet in 1813, but the British did), but it was, according to the accounts of all three historians, a combination of all the factors, not just "duress". The NWC boys had arrived looking for grub, and wound up perceiving the situation and, all of them knowing each other also - and the NWC had curtsyed out of the lower Columbia, upon finding the Astorians, and had set up shop at Fort Okanagan, y'see. Astoria had not been economically viable, and the sea otter collapse; it was economic duress from the collapse of the sea otter supply, and duress from a climate of native warfare farther north, and something like good timing...the article should also have something about the re-transfer of assets and the longevity of the fort etc. On a corporate level, it might be good to add the Board of Directors and other company officials (if not already there, I htink they are on Astor's article and maybe in the Tonquin one). I'll come back at some point with chapter/page refs from the histories, which are all online. Skookum1 ( talk) 02:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pfly, glad to see you're around; apparently things might be a little easier now - ?? Just to note that content on the Interior forts of the PFC is very much missing; of course it would help if I started Thompson's River Post (or was it Fort Shuswap that was the PFC one, and Thompson's River was NWC?). The Isaac Todd should probably be linked, and a dab come up with for the PFC's Beaver - Beaver (Pacific Fur Company) maybe? Skookum1 ( talk) 17:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I was going to begin expanding this article when I stumbled upon the Astor Expedition page. The Pacific Fur Company only existed as long as the Astor Expedition was ongoing. These two articles are therefore on an identical topic. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 02:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I firmly believe in modifying the work of other editors only when needed. Much of the merged work included simply incorrect claims that were egregious. To keep things transparent here is the list of statements I have removed with individual explanations. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 00:55, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I finally got around to revising the article and while it is a bit more nuanced on particular points, it isn't complete by any means. The areas that need attention would be the sections covering 1812 through 1814. While I plan on editing these areas eventually, as of now I'm content with the article. Any thoughts on coordinating matters would be welcomed. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 08:26, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | The contents of the Astor Expedition page were merged into Pacific Fur Company on 01 December 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I can never keep them straight; one was the PFC-cum-NWC post, the other a never-quite HBC post; the HBC took over the NWC in 1821, and the name slowly became Fort Kamloops I guess. But which was it at the start? What other APC posts were there in the Interior - I know there were some. I'll try and get writing Ft Kamloops/Shuswap/Thompson once I straighten out whose was which, and after I get Fort McLoughlin and Fort Simpson (Pacific coast) started..... Skookum1 ( talk) 16:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
It's way more complicaed than that and "duress" is certainly a POV interpretation of the situation which led to the transfer of the fort; it was the partners in charge, who happened to be the Canadians (Hunt was absent, up talking to the Russians), and the scenario included factors like the collapse of the sea otter population and a gathering of ships and men taking refuge from a rising environment of regular warlike hostilities farther north, particularly the destruction of the Boston but also others, and the fort's resources and morale were under strain. By the way, sea otter is, by the way, what was meant by "beaver" in the records of the coastal trade, according to one old-era historian I've been reading (Bancroft, Begg or Scholefield & Howay). Yes, it was anticipated a warship would arrive to seize the fort (as the US had no Pacific Fleet in 1813, but the British did), but it was, according to the accounts of all three historians, a combination of all the factors, not just "duress". The NWC boys had arrived looking for grub, and wound up perceiving the situation and, all of them knowing each other also - and the NWC had curtsyed out of the lower Columbia, upon finding the Astorians, and had set up shop at Fort Okanagan, y'see. Astoria had not been economically viable, and the sea otter collapse; it was economic duress from the collapse of the sea otter supply, and duress from a climate of native warfare farther north, and something like good timing...the article should also have something about the re-transfer of assets and the longevity of the fort etc. On a corporate level, it might be good to add the Board of Directors and other company officials (if not already there, I htink they are on Astor's article and maybe in the Tonquin one). I'll come back at some point with chapter/page refs from the histories, which are all online. Skookum1 ( talk) 02:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pfly, glad to see you're around; apparently things might be a little easier now - ?? Just to note that content on the Interior forts of the PFC is very much missing; of course it would help if I started Thompson's River Post (or was it Fort Shuswap that was the PFC one, and Thompson's River was NWC?). The Isaac Todd should probably be linked, and a dab come up with for the PFC's Beaver - Beaver (Pacific Fur Company) maybe? Skookum1 ( talk) 17:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I was going to begin expanding this article when I stumbled upon the Astor Expedition page. The Pacific Fur Company only existed as long as the Astor Expedition was ongoing. These two articles are therefore on an identical topic. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 02:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I firmly believe in modifying the work of other editors only when needed. Much of the merged work included simply incorrect claims that were egregious. To keep things transparent here is the list of statements I have removed with individual explanations. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 00:55, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I finally got around to revising the article and while it is a bit more nuanced on particular points, it isn't complete by any means. The areas that need attention would be the sections covering 1812 through 1814. While I plan on editing these areas eventually, as of now I'm content with the article. Any thoughts on coordinating matters would be welcomed. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 08:26, 30 March 2016 (UTC)