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Does anyone know WHY the programme is called PM? Does it simply stand for Post Meridiem, linked in with the notion that the program 'starts your evening'? This is worth adding to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jez9999 ( talk • contribs) 15:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC) I believe it is simply because it stands for "post meridiem" - perhaps this could go in the article. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
The programme explained on air on 22 April 2015 that it was named after Peter Mandelson who, whilst a child, had won a competition to name the programme. However, there is reason to believe that this may be a case of British humour at work. I expect your post meridiem explanation is correct, though I don't have a cite. GrahamN-UK ( talk) 17:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
This programme could be mentioned as a programme that has referred to Wikipedia when David Cameron raised the topic of whether Gordon Brown knew how old Titian was at the time of his death, although there was some subsequent correspondence. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
What has happened to this recently? Listeners can no longer post comments, because the presenters seem to have stopped adding new threads. 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 09:46, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
In fact, now there is no way to comment even when new topics are added - why is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 12:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Why can’t the PM producers find a decent ‘first reserve’ presenter for whenever Eddie Mair is away? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 13:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
The post-"Saturday PM" slot is mentioned for iPM which it intermittently still inhabits (approx 25 minutes of runtime, leading up to the Shipping Forecast), when a programme like In Business isn't repeating itself in that slot, but no mention is made of iPM being continuously broadcast for (I think) as long as it has existed elsewhere in a 5:45am slot (15 minutes, and thus is more edited 'version' of the 5:30pm 'repeat', when that occurs). I may check historical listings for more info, but in the meantime I'm putting this out there for anyone who is bothered. 149.254.183.107 ( talk) 09:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move the page to PM (BBC Radio 4), per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 01:28, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
PM (Radio 4) → ? – "(Radio 4)" looks confusing; PM (BBC Radio 4) should be used. However, if you favour disambiguating by country, try PM (UK radio series) instead. George Ho ( talk) 14:56, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Eddie Mair and a PM correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones said on air today (April 22) that they had been mischievously editing the wiki for PM as a way of exploring the Grant Shapps story about his own Wikipedia page. The edits were reverted by a wiki editor and they were asked not to vandalise the page. Should this be included within the 'quirky features' section? Hackcyn ( talk) 16:38, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
I have listened to the recording, as well as blocked the user PMpuppet who was mentioned on the programme. Regarding which person made which edits as which user, I have added fact tags. As time and eyes are upon us and I am impatient, I soon expect to see verbatim quotes and recording timings for the precise claims in the article, not links to edits, or I'll edit the section mercilessly. Thanks. -- zzuuzz (talk) 08:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I liked the bit which goes:
Before the PM program on 22 April there was only one edit to the page from an anonymous editor, IP 132.185.161.98 at 12:39. Then ten edits by PMpuppet between 1:49 and 2:20. These were reverted by Sladen one minute into the program, which I think would be just after PM announced that it was intending to edit its own page live on air. If Mair is to be believed, and Cellan-Jones had acted on the instructions Mair stated he had given, then Cellan-Jones must have edited either as the IP, or as PMpuppet. If he made more than one edit, then he must be PMpuppet. It is perfectly possible that someone else made both sets of edits, or that more than one person acted as PMpuppet. However, this is not a busy page. It seems an extraordinary coincidence that I think few would accept as such, if the PM office decided to make such an experiment, and then a purely random person happened to do it instead who was unconnected. PMpuppet reverted the page again at 17:28.
132.185.161.98 also made three edits to the Eddie Mair page at about the same time (12:36-12:38), including one grammatical correction and twice changing his year of birth. The same IP made a couple of edits noting the removal of Lutfur Rahman as Mayor of Tower Hamlets, a current news story. This IP is registered as belonging to the British Broadcasting Corporation in London and made three more edits to the page in September 2014. I seem to recall the presenters commenting that there is more anonymity for a registered user than a supposedly anonymous one, because the IP of registered users is not displayed. An admin would be able to advise further on whether PMpuppet was connected via a BBC IP or not, and whether it happened to be the same one.
IP 132.185.161.96 is another registered to the BBC, and was used four times between 17:07 and 17:30 to reinsert changes to the page which had been removed by BethNaught and Sladen. That would constitute edit warring. Both this and the very similar one with last digit changed were also used earlier in the day to edit article Warsangali, which is a Somali clan. One might jump to the conclusion someone had used the computers interchangeably at different times of day, and perhaps that they are in the same office. Both have been used to make edits on several same wikipedia pages, including ones relating to the BBC.
The previous most recent edit before all this was another IP, 165.120.206.32 on 3 April, who removed a comment about Robert Peston being prepared to take over the show, made by 95.146.113.120 on 24 March. This might be vandalism, but it also might be an actual piece of banter from Eddie Mair similar to the ones he made during this show. Robert Peston is a BBC journalist who appears on the show from time to time reporting economics. This is very likely checkable if the BBC website still has the original broadcast, probably on 24 March, if anyone is keen enough to sit through the whole hours program. Available past episodes seem to go back to 2007. Sandpiper ( talk) 21:41, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I'd note here that on 23 April PM mentioned on air that their article now reported they had vandalised their own page. In my view this is quite a noteable event, particularly for users of wikipedia, who are the only people likely to ever see it. This is a start article and logically ought to have much more content, but this is the sort of thing I would find interesting if I had happened to simply look up the page. So it should be in.
However, I am less convinced that this should be described bluntly as vandalism. Firstly, casual readers will not be aware of the special meaning of this amongst wikipedia insiders, and will interpret it in its common meaning. Secondly, vandalism in its special meaning does require that an edit has been made to deliberately harm the article or wikipedia. I do not believe PM were planning to leave the article forever with deliberately false information added, but intended this as a test, as they publicly stated. I do not think wiki being tested from time to time is a bad thing for the encylopedia as a whole. People editing pages to deliberately alter public perception of themselves, issues or events, or to disparage wiki, is rather a different matter, but that is not what happened here. I am not sure if PM were able to draw conclusions about how easy it is to subvert an article, because if I was setting out to do that I would not announce the fact on national radio. Sandpiper ( talk) 09:08, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I agree that this was clearly not vandalism. PM was not acting with any malicious intent to actually harm the project. Rather, it was conducting a practical experiment, based on the Grant Shapps Wikipedia story, to test how easy it is to inject silliness into Wikipedia. And they duly found that it's all but impossible. Yolon5 ( talk) 09:51, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
I have reinstated the earlier entries for Robert Williams, Susannah Simons, Frank Partridge and Clare English, which were removed because they do not have their own Wikipedia entries. This is not one of the rules of Wikipedia as far as I'm aware. Robert Williams and Susannah Simons are mentioned in the "History" section and it seems perverse to remove them from the list of former presenters. I may be adding further such entries as and when I confirm the dates served. GDBarry ( talk) 15:17, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
I have now removed the "former presenters" section. Notable former presenters are listed in the "History" section. There is an editor here who is determined to obliterate any mention of any former PM presenter who does not have a Wikipedia article, regardless of how distinguished or long-serving. I can't be bothered with this sort of game-playing. GDBarry ( talk) 18:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Does anyone know WHY the programme is called PM? Does it simply stand for Post Meridiem, linked in with the notion that the program 'starts your evening'? This is worth adding to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jez9999 ( talk • contribs) 15:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC) I believe it is simply because it stands for "post meridiem" - perhaps this could go in the article. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
The programme explained on air on 22 April 2015 that it was named after Peter Mandelson who, whilst a child, had won a competition to name the programme. However, there is reason to believe that this may be a case of British humour at work. I expect your post meridiem explanation is correct, though I don't have a cite. GrahamN-UK ( talk) 17:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
This programme could be mentioned as a programme that has referred to Wikipedia when David Cameron raised the topic of whether Gordon Brown knew how old Titian was at the time of his death, although there was some subsequent correspondence. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 22:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
What has happened to this recently? Listeners can no longer post comments, because the presenters seem to have stopped adding new threads. 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 09:46, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
In fact, now there is no way to comment even when new topics are added - why is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 12:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Why can’t the PM producers find a decent ‘first reserve’ presenter for whenever Eddie Mair is away? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.108.145.39 ( talk) 13:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
The post-"Saturday PM" slot is mentioned for iPM which it intermittently still inhabits (approx 25 minutes of runtime, leading up to the Shipping Forecast), when a programme like In Business isn't repeating itself in that slot, but no mention is made of iPM being continuously broadcast for (I think) as long as it has existed elsewhere in a 5:45am slot (15 minutes, and thus is more edited 'version' of the 5:30pm 'repeat', when that occurs). I may check historical listings for more info, but in the meantime I'm putting this out there for anyone who is bothered. 149.254.183.107 ( talk) 09:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move the page to PM (BBC Radio 4), per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 01:28, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
PM (Radio 4) → ? – "(Radio 4)" looks confusing; PM (BBC Radio 4) should be used. However, if you favour disambiguating by country, try PM (UK radio series) instead. George Ho ( talk) 14:56, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Eddie Mair and a PM correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones said on air today (April 22) that they had been mischievously editing the wiki for PM as a way of exploring the Grant Shapps story about his own Wikipedia page. The edits were reverted by a wiki editor and they were asked not to vandalise the page. Should this be included within the 'quirky features' section? Hackcyn ( talk) 16:38, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
I have listened to the recording, as well as blocked the user PMpuppet who was mentioned on the programme. Regarding which person made which edits as which user, I have added fact tags. As time and eyes are upon us and I am impatient, I soon expect to see verbatim quotes and recording timings for the precise claims in the article, not links to edits, or I'll edit the section mercilessly. Thanks. -- zzuuzz (talk) 08:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I liked the bit which goes:
Before the PM program on 22 April there was only one edit to the page from an anonymous editor, IP 132.185.161.98 at 12:39. Then ten edits by PMpuppet between 1:49 and 2:20. These were reverted by Sladen one minute into the program, which I think would be just after PM announced that it was intending to edit its own page live on air. If Mair is to be believed, and Cellan-Jones had acted on the instructions Mair stated he had given, then Cellan-Jones must have edited either as the IP, or as PMpuppet. If he made more than one edit, then he must be PMpuppet. It is perfectly possible that someone else made both sets of edits, or that more than one person acted as PMpuppet. However, this is not a busy page. It seems an extraordinary coincidence that I think few would accept as such, if the PM office decided to make such an experiment, and then a purely random person happened to do it instead who was unconnected. PMpuppet reverted the page again at 17:28.
132.185.161.98 also made three edits to the Eddie Mair page at about the same time (12:36-12:38), including one grammatical correction and twice changing his year of birth. The same IP made a couple of edits noting the removal of Lutfur Rahman as Mayor of Tower Hamlets, a current news story. This IP is registered as belonging to the British Broadcasting Corporation in London and made three more edits to the page in September 2014. I seem to recall the presenters commenting that there is more anonymity for a registered user than a supposedly anonymous one, because the IP of registered users is not displayed. An admin would be able to advise further on whether PMpuppet was connected via a BBC IP or not, and whether it happened to be the same one.
IP 132.185.161.96 is another registered to the BBC, and was used four times between 17:07 and 17:30 to reinsert changes to the page which had been removed by BethNaught and Sladen. That would constitute edit warring. Both this and the very similar one with last digit changed were also used earlier in the day to edit article Warsangali, which is a Somali clan. One might jump to the conclusion someone had used the computers interchangeably at different times of day, and perhaps that they are in the same office. Both have been used to make edits on several same wikipedia pages, including ones relating to the BBC.
The previous most recent edit before all this was another IP, 165.120.206.32 on 3 April, who removed a comment about Robert Peston being prepared to take over the show, made by 95.146.113.120 on 24 March. This might be vandalism, but it also might be an actual piece of banter from Eddie Mair similar to the ones he made during this show. Robert Peston is a BBC journalist who appears on the show from time to time reporting economics. This is very likely checkable if the BBC website still has the original broadcast, probably on 24 March, if anyone is keen enough to sit through the whole hours program. Available past episodes seem to go back to 2007. Sandpiper ( talk) 21:41, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I'd note here that on 23 April PM mentioned on air that their article now reported they had vandalised their own page. In my view this is quite a noteable event, particularly for users of wikipedia, who are the only people likely to ever see it. This is a start article and logically ought to have much more content, but this is the sort of thing I would find interesting if I had happened to simply look up the page. So it should be in.
However, I am less convinced that this should be described bluntly as vandalism. Firstly, casual readers will not be aware of the special meaning of this amongst wikipedia insiders, and will interpret it in its common meaning. Secondly, vandalism in its special meaning does require that an edit has been made to deliberately harm the article or wikipedia. I do not believe PM were planning to leave the article forever with deliberately false information added, but intended this as a test, as they publicly stated. I do not think wiki being tested from time to time is a bad thing for the encylopedia as a whole. People editing pages to deliberately alter public perception of themselves, issues or events, or to disparage wiki, is rather a different matter, but that is not what happened here. I am not sure if PM were able to draw conclusions about how easy it is to subvert an article, because if I was setting out to do that I would not announce the fact on national radio. Sandpiper ( talk) 09:08, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I agree that this was clearly not vandalism. PM was not acting with any malicious intent to actually harm the project. Rather, it was conducting a practical experiment, based on the Grant Shapps Wikipedia story, to test how easy it is to inject silliness into Wikipedia. And they duly found that it's all but impossible. Yolon5 ( talk) 09:51, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
I have reinstated the earlier entries for Robert Williams, Susannah Simons, Frank Partridge and Clare English, which were removed because they do not have their own Wikipedia entries. This is not one of the rules of Wikipedia as far as I'm aware. Robert Williams and Susannah Simons are mentioned in the "History" section and it seems perverse to remove them from the list of former presenters. I may be adding further such entries as and when I confirm the dates served. GDBarry ( talk) 15:17, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
I have now removed the "former presenters" section. Notable former presenters are listed in the "History" section. There is an editor here who is determined to obliterate any mention of any former PM presenter who does not have a Wikipedia article, regardless of how distinguished or long-serving. I can't be bothered with this sort of game-playing. GDBarry ( talk) 18:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)