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"Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a slang, jargon or usage guide." Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_dictionary
An acronym is not a term; only that could qualify for an encyclopedia. If really used as a term, is must be combined with a specific thesis, which remains in that case rather unclear, so that it cannot be verified or critized. The conclusion is: that acronym does not qualify for an encyclopedia. -- Meffo ( talk) 12:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
My question to be decided on is here:
Should we allow for PIGS an exception to wiki rules, that wikipedia is about concepts, and which have a reliable encyclopedial source? -- Meffo ( talk) 07:31, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I suggest delete the article and or a {{afd}}-- Nudecline ( talk) 14:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Weak redirect- Move it the more inclusive PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain).-- Its snowing in East Asia ( talk) 10:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Redirect to PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain), PIIGGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Great Britain and Spain), or RUPIIGS (Romania, United Kingdom, Portugal,Italy,Ireland,Greece and Spain). They all come up on variouse fiscal web pages.-- Its snowing in East Asia ( talk) 15:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is the well researched and referenced intro to the actual term:
PIGS, or PIIGS is an acronym used by international bond analysts, [1] [2] [3] academics, [4] [5] [6] and by the international economic press [1] to refer to the mediterranean economies of the current European Union, (specifically in regards issues related to the soverign debt market) of southern Europe: Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with Ireland sometimes found more recently [2] as the additional "I" or in lieu of Italy. [7] [8] Because of its vernacular connotation, some news and economic organisations have denounced or banned its usage.
That's it. 99.144.243.71 ( talk) 22:54, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
RE: PIIGS AND OTHER PORCINE STORIES…I’m not sure this has anything to do with religion or dietary laws or with “Nordic” City snobs patronizing Southern Europeans… It’s just a ‘porte-manteau’ easy-to-remember financial term used by traders and economists on both sides of the Atlantic. Re: the “Proposed Corrective Policies” paragraph I’ve started in the article on PIIGS, that DinDraithoum dude keeps on erasing all additions to the article (including mine). He’s adamant this is some kind of “linguistics” orientated article about the acronym’s semantic roots or something, and doesn’t want to understand the real/underlying topic is the current debt crisis in southern EU countries…..I’m at loss for words: the man simply doesn’t want to understand!! Moorehaus —Preceding undated comment added 23:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC).
It's used on this English language web page [3]. -- Wipsenade ( talk) 15:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Well done; you hold Wikipedia clean of vandalism. -- 212.54.219.232 ( talk) 06:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Oh yeah. Some random deucebag journalist used this term and some others repeated it, and then some random "wikipedians" who live somewhere in America decided that it's OK for the people of 5 entire foreign (to them) nations to be referred to as "pigs". Oh, yeah that makes perfect sense because it's "consensus". Oh, and it's also "sourced". I wish I could meet the idiot who introduced voting in wikipedia as a means of establishing "consensus" and explain to him what those terms actually mean in the real world, outside quotes. Until then you can keep this article, it is a fine example of wikipedia's side as an amateur product of pop-culture and source of misinformation. Miskin ( talk) 18:43, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
There's a very interesting article, surprisingly coming from Jamaica, that has been a email hit across europe in the last months, i think it should be mentioned in this article Apology To The So-Called 'PIIGS' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.206.51.69 ( talk) 23:05, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
In at least parts of Europe, "PIIIGS" is not uncommon, since to us it was the Iceland crash that was the opening shot so to say (in Germany I see "PIIIGS" occasionally, but I have not yet seen "PIIGGS"). Google suggests that "GG" is by far more common than "III", but the latter has been lingering for a while, while the former is only becoming popular in the world at large since late 2009/early 2010 (possibly due to the run-up for the UK general elections).
Arguably, if we mention "PIIGGS" we also need to mention "PIIIG(G)S", since only the original "PIIGS" (w/o Iceland) are part of the Euro zone, and including any or both of Iceland and the UK - in whatever combination - extends the meaning of the term from "Euro zone problem states" to "West European countries exposed to critical amounts of rotten credit". ("West European" being here the political - i.e. "former Western Bloc" - rather than the geographic term).
Briefly, "PIIGS" (without Iceland) expresses a monetary problem, adding any letter beyond shifts the term's meaning to express a more general economic problem. Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 17:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been mentioned on the BBC in January. Romania, UK, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain= 'RUPIIGS', but any use of PIIGS or related turms has ended since about May all to geather, despite the crisis contiuing.-- 86.24.27.91 ( talk) 03:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The term PIGS is an economic term for the troubled economies of the Eurozone which endanger the stability of other Eurozone economies, as all Eurozone economies are tied to each other via the Euro. The term doesn't apply to economies which are not a part of the Eurozone because these economies are not tied to others via a single currency. The term PIGS applies to Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain. The variant term PIIGS is also sometimes used, the extra I standing for Italy. PIIGGS is never used, nor is any other variant. If non-Eurozone countries are included in this article, which they never are in the media, then technically even the debt ridden United States economy, the stagnant Japanese economy, the rapidly shrinking Russian economy, the bankrupt Icelandic economy and others could or should be included in this article. Economies of member states of the European Union are not tied to other member states' economies in the same way as Eurozone economies are tied to each other. Many non-Eurozone economies of Eastern European member states of the European Union are currently debt ridden and performing badly, such as Romania, Hungary, and Latvia, though none of these appear on this article. Please stick to the term as used by economists and the media. 88.106.64.134 ( talk) 03:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Since the origin of the phrase PIGS dates back to at least 2000, it is not possible that it contains a "hidden agenda" to draw attention away from the post-2008 state of the US and UK economies. In fact, the Economist article which is cited in support of the idea that some people have interpreted it in this way does not even mention the word PIGS or PIIGS. It is an ironic opinion piece reviewing the general hostile reception to the Spanish transport minister's theories that Spain was the victim of a coordinated conspiracy by the financial markets and the international press. The citation for the Portuguese minister's condemnation of the phrase as racist is a dead link and the Spanish blog cited seems to be a fulmination against the foreign press (particularly the Financial Times ironically) in which the acronym PIIGS is, rather controversially, just translated as "cerdos", Spanish for pigs.
It should at least be mentioned in the current Wikipedia article that the origin of the phrase was in the neutral acronym BAFFLING PIGS, which was simply used as a memonic for remembering all the original participants in the Euro (See the travel section of the Independent Dec 2001: http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/all-change-for-the-euro-663758.html). Its counterpart was DUKS - Denmark, UK and Sweden - EU members which did not participate.
I cannot recall any complaint that either term was racist or insulting until more widely used in the financial crisis.
Whatever its origins, it is clear the acronym - as a clumsily adapted bit of shorthand for the Euro countries arguably facing the most difficulties on the financial markets - is well past its sell-by date. Spain should almost certainly not be in the same category of risk as Ireland and including the UK makes little financial or geographical sense - unless it is simply meant as a derogatory term for any country with a deficit/debt problem, in which case why not include the US, Turkey or anyone else who takes one's fancy. While this may be a matter of opinion, without any citation to the contrary, that is the more likely explanation for it no longer being used in the Financial Times. It has simply become meaningless. As an international newspaper, the FT would also be aware that the phrase - once translated into the local language for the four-legged bacon version - would be seen as particularly unflattering, whatever its own sense of the acronym.
The misuse of citations in support of a shaky thesis and the general tone of the current entry should be amended. The inclusion of the UK in the grouping - although some citations can be found, as for everything - has no historical or intellectually rigourous basis and makes it look like a peevish act of retribution for a supposed anti-mediterranean bias in the original acronym. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.143.5 ( talk) 00:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I have tagged the article as having Multiple issues. I'd like to point out some of them:
Cleanup: As someone indicated before, the BRIC article might be a good example to follow. More specifically, in the current version of PIGS, the "Acronym variation" subsection is unclear and poorly sourced; "The causes of their decline" is unsourced, too simple and probably biased; "The economic fall-out among 'member states'" is not clearly linked to the rest of the article; and the "See also" and "Topical diagrams" sections look like they should be better integrated into the article.
Refimprove: References are lacking (in quantity and quality) in most of the article, and especially in subsections 'Acronym variations' and 'The causes of their decline'.
Citation style: Many references include only the URL; no source name, no author, no date... -- gonzy ( talk) 18:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
When I hear people in Germany on youtube calling Greece "pigs" while Greeks never use the term, I can only think "Hitler, Hitler, Hitler". -- Athinker ( talk) 00:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm presenting this wrong as I'm not an experienced user.
Anyways, the name of the article on a whole should be changed to PIIGS. The acronym refers to the countries use of the EURO currency, and the subsequent weakness displayed of that currency relative to the dollar and yen. There were concerns that the currency as a whole might collaspe. Portugal Italy Greece and Spain were included; this was later amended due to deterioration in Ireland's financial condition. This creates the final PIIGS.
For this reason, the addition of countries such as the U.K., Romania, and Iceland are off point and misused by the media. Also, in reading this discussion, I must point out that the acronym is commonly used in American economic publications and journals such as the WSJ, the Economist, etc. It is not a U.K. creation that was to demean the countries. It is an economic acronym.
There is an excellent comment above that this article should mimic the BRIC article about Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Would an editor please attend to this because in light of Ireland's recent bailout, the inaccuracies and lack of information is disheartening for those who would turn to this site for information about the issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.146.247 ( talk) 06:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
== There's no PIIGGS ==
The citations for the extra G are pathetic. I've never seen any reference to PIIGGS (except by bloggers from P, I, G, and S with wishful thinking). PIGS is a real term used in the markets. Don't use this article to assuage national self-esteem. Unless better sources are inserted in a week, I'm going to delete UK from this article. DeCausa ( talk) 01:32, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
- This is correct. I've tried to remove references, but cannot change the map/file names for the map and bar chart. 94.142.32.114 ( talk) 11:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Sources Below - No Removal Justified
Rodolfou ( talk) 02:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't the "I" in PIGS stand for Ireland? Italy should be the second "I" in PIIGS. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8510603.stm and also http://bx.businessweek.com/irelands-economy/europes-pigs-country-by-country/15556830359292323753-3751dfb9e72be6533f8227d23e647349/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.27.244.146 ( talk) 06:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The main controversy behind the acronym is that it is purposefully discriminatory (e.g., “brown-people discrimination”) as alternatives such as GIPS (but not the possibly derogatory GIPSI or GIPSIs) would still configure a readable acronym without inflaming a North-South divide/conflict (as the original I was for Italy, not Ireland) between Euro-nations and promoting a narrative of “help” from Northern states to Southern states (instead of alternative narratives, e.g. of bank bailouts in disguise).
Other Insulting/Derogatory Acronyms
STUPID - Spain, Turkey, UK, Portugal, Italy and Dubai
FUKD - France, UK and Deutschland
FUKDUS - France, UK, Deutschland and US
Possible Citations
And when you think about that unflattering acronym -- PIGS – you have to ask yourself, who invented it? Where did it come from? My understanding was that it came from an analyst at Goldman Sachs. If so, one is entitled to doubt that was entirely accidental. And I suggest that perhaps it might be useful going forward to change the referent of that acronym to its true meaning: Principal Instigator Goldman Sachs. Comments by James K. Galbraith at a Symposium of the Global Progressive Forum, Res Publica and the Parliamentary European Socialists, Lisbon, July 9, 2010. http://utip.gov.utexas.edu/Flyers/Galbraith%20Lisbon%20I.pdf
But some investors warn that such acronyms, droll as they are, can make the markets less safe. Gerard Fitzpatrick, senior portfolio manager at Russell Investments in London, says: “These acronyms can spread systemic risk. They create herd behaviour, with investors mindlessly running from anything tarred with the PIGS brush.” Jerome Booth agrees: “The problem with all these acronyms is they’re short-cuts. They save you the effort of thinking. Thinking is hard work.” From BRICs to PIGS: what’s in a name? Jules Evans December 6, 2010 http://www.globaldashboard.org/2010/12/06/from-brics-to-pigs-whats-in-a-name/
A particular worry is what could be called the PIGS—Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, Europe's negative version of the fast-growing BRICs. The fear is that these countries may be in a hole they cannot easily climb out of and that the ECB will be pressed into running a looser monetary policy to save them. The ECB at ten - A decade in the sun. The Economist. Jun 5th 2008 | from the print edition http://www.economist.com/node/11487440?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11487440 Rodolfou ( talk) 02:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
General government net debt (% of GDP) International Monetary Fund, April 2011 World Economic Outlook Net debt is calculated as gross debt minus financial assets corresponding to debt instruments. These financial assets are: monetary gold and SDRs, currency and deposits, debt securities, loans, insurance, pension, and standardized guarantee schemes, and other accounts receivable.
General government net lending/borrowing (% of GDP) International Monetary Fund, April 2011 World Economic Outlook Net lending (+)/ borrowing (–) is calculated as revenue minus total expenditure. This is a core GFS balance that measures the extent to which general government is either putting financial resources at the disposal of other sectors in the e...conomy and nonresidents (net lending), or utilizing the financial resources generated by other sectors and nonresidents (net borrowing). This balance may be viewed as an indicator of the financial impact of general government activity on the rest of the economy and nonresidents (GFSM 2001, paragraph 4.17). Note: Net lending (+)/borrowing (–) is also equal to net acquisition of financial assets minus net incurrence of liabilities.
And it is not meant to. It was developed generations ago to group the economic related economies of southern Europe, it's a grouping acronym and nothing more. 76.239.18.21 ( talk) 13:32, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
You forgot Iceland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.10.234.164 ( talk) 00:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Coincidence? I think not. -- 195.74.250.209 ( talk) 01:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I had posted info on the articale that Spain has the lowest public debt according to the graph thats INCLUDED in the article. For some unknown, bizarre reason, you deleted it. I even provided the URL of the graph as excellent reference. Why are you doing this? Are you ok? 12.20.4.100 ( talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.20.4.100 ( talk) 16:34, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I for one know I always edit in favour of both my American culture and my American suprimacy. Martijn Hoekstra ( talk) 22:07, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
What about Iceland? It's occassionally been grouped with the PIIGS, with three I's. 65.94.77.11 ( talk) 14:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
It was refered to in UK press for the UK and Romania in 2008. PA Dennison ( talk) 03:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Romania, UK, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain= 'RUPIIGS', but any use uther than PIIGS or related turms has ended since about May 2009 [ [7]]. PA Dennison ( talk) 03:44, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
PIGS (economics) → PIGS –Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC) Primary topic. Page views: 39,813, 101. Marcus Qwertyus 21:39, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
It seems that many misunderstand this phrase: "similar economic environments" as being synonymous with the ongoing financial crisis.
This is a mistake. The similar economic environment is their grounding as southern European largely Mediterranean agricultural/tourism based economies with (pre-EU) export based soft-money and biased towards inflationary central banking policies. Before the Euro these countries native currency and sovereign debt was largely traded as a bloc and moved together as a group. Similar groupings occur with what are known as commodity currencies as in Australia/Canada/Brazil and elsewhere wherever natural rhythms exist.
The phrase "similar economic environments" should either be explained or replaced - it is not accurately reflecting the term for the purposes of this non-political encyclopedia. 99.50.181.83 ( talk) 15:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for merging with European_sovereign_debt_crisis on 2012-11-09. The result of the discussion was to keep the articles separate.. |
16:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
That's how it is most commonly used, because the original four countries who got into trouble where Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain. Italy only got into trouble later, when its bond rates were rising, too. Even one of the sources used here speaks of Ireland instead of Italy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8510603.stm Also, see this: http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIGS.html Seems there is some confusion about the acronym, and this should be noted in the article. Gray62 ( talk) 21:08, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Many newspapers, which are not scientific, often inappropriately used the term PIGS. We have to use these sources, but we must be careful, because very often, in this matter, some journalists are superficial.
Indeed, Ireland (and not Italy) is included in the term PIGS: to indicate Italy we use the term PIIGS. Though often, reporters who are not specialists tend to interchange the names.
Now let's recap. The ability of a country to finance its debt depends on two variables:
Italy had the lowest budget deficit in Europe, after Germany (-5.3% in 2009, -4.5 in 2010, -3.9 in 2011). Ireland has had a greater deficit (-14.0 in 2009, -17.0 in 2010, -11.0 in 2011).
Interest payments. The difference between the yield of Italian government bonds and German 10 years (spread BOT / bunds) was at most 575. Ireland has reached 2200 points: it was forced to seek help of 85 billion euros in 2010, the European fund EFSF. Italy has never asked for help and will not do so. Even today, Ireland spends more than Italy, to finance its debt.
The confusion stems from the fact that Italy, in July 2011, appeared close to a major political crisis, but not to an economic crisis. The political crisis was due to the controversy between the President Berlusconi and Economics Minister Tremonti, who was considered the guardian of the public accounts.
See the IMF site.-- Naumakos ( talk) 22:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
"So, when in 1995 Italy — along with the other southern countries of Portugal, Greece and Spain — finally made it to the borderless Europe, signs of elation were palpable … The euphoria, however, did not last long. European clerks in Brussels soon started referring to the Giovannios-come-lately with an unflattering acronym: Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain — the PIGS, no less, as Linday Waters reported." — Roberto M. Dainotto (2006), Europe (in Theory), Durham: Duke University Press, p. 2, ISBN 9780822339274
"In early 2010 public focus moved from the external indebtedness of Eastern Europe and risks to its banking system to the public indebtedness of the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain) and the possible risk of sovereign default, especially in Greece." - Anders Åslund (2010), The Last Shall be the First: The East European Financial Crisis, 2008-10, Washington, DC: Peterson Institute, p. 29, ISBN 9780881325218
"The real problem came when this analysis was extended to the rest of the heavily indebted periphery — commonly referred to in such accounts as the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain) group. Ireland was sometimes thrown in as a second 'I'. This was unfair and inaccurate, particularly as regards Spain and Ireland, which had been running a budget leading up to the crisis." —John Quiggin (2012), Zombie Economics: How Dead Ideas Still Walk among Us, Princeton University Press, p. 229, ISBN 9781400842087
"A particular worry is what could be called the PIGS—Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, Europe's negative version of the fast-growing BRICs."
"As the Economist reported during the Maastricht negotiations, the limits were chosen by an alliance of German, Dutch, British, and other officials with the intention of "keeping the PIGS out." "PIGS" alluded to Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain, where were deemed to be prone to fiscal profligacy and infation." — Bradley W. Bateman; Toshiaki Hirai; Maria Cristina Marcuzzo (2010), The Return to Keynes, Harvard University Press, p. 62, ISBN 9780674035386
The dispute is over whether the term PIGS originally included "Ireland" or "Italy" and when Italy became associated with the term.
The statements below, added by Naumakos, I think, are contradicted by reliable sources (I've underlined the particular issues):
The version here, I feel, is more accurate:
Additionally, I believe the map Naumakos has added reflects Wikipedia:Recentism (and even then inaccurately) rather than a neutral historical perspective on the term.
35 sources with quotations are refernce in the version I link above. The following are particularly relevant, I feel (note the dates, also):
In general, the weakest EU economies, called PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain), are best avoided in the near term. In recent times Ireland has also been associated with the PIGS countries and the acronym has been modified to become PIIGS. However considering Ireland's public debt as a % of GDP, it is an unfortunate comparison.
Disse europeiske landene har i finansverdenen gått under økenavnet PiGS-land (Portugal, Italia, Hellas (Greece) og Spania) siden 1997. Etter at finanskrisen inntraff, og det ble økt fokus på europeiske lands statsfinanser, har også Irland og Storbritannia blitt knyttet til PIGS, noe som gjør at man nå både har samlebetegnelsene PIIGS og PIIGGS.(Translation: "These European countries have in the financial world gone under the nickname PIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Greece (Greece) and Spain) since 1997. After the financial crisis struck, and there was increased focus on European countries' public finances, also Ireland and the UK have been linked to the PIGS, which means that you now have both collective term PIIGS and PIIGGS.)")
"PIGS in Muck" — this was how, using the acronym 'PIGS' for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, the Financial Times London had titled an edit on August 31, 2008. … Unlike in 2008, now it is no more just PIGS that drag the EU down. The PIGS club has now expanded, with Ireland first, and ironically, Great Britain next, as the newly qualified members of the PIGS, making it PIIGGS (adding another 'I', for Ireland and another 'G', for Great Britain).
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help)PIGS, PIIGS and PIIGGS are acronyms that originally referred to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain (PIGS). Since the financial crisis of 2007–2010, Ireland (PIIGS) and, more recently, the United Kingdom (Great Britain, PIIGGS) have become associated with the term. The term became popular again during the financial crisis of 2007–2010 when the economies of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain were seen as especially vulnerable due to high or rising government debt levels and a high government deficits relative to annual GDP.
-- RA ( talk) 12:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
"PIGS is an acronym that refers to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain.[cite] [<--This reflects the most common use] Some economists use the "I" to refer to Ireland,[cite] and the acronym PIIGS is also used to refer to both Italy and Ireland.[cite]"
The widely read financial blog of the Financial Times commented: "In the euro zone, there has always been a quartet of nations with a somewhat unstable rating position: the PIGS. That is, Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Rating agency S&P though, in a slew of rating renouncements this week, has affirmed Italy's A+. So we need a new vulnerable I on the cusp of downgrade. Step in, Ireland. With a AAA rating." In this psychological game of "group dynamics", there was an unconscious need to blame, isolate, and shame the weakest. The "PIGS" brand, born in the 1990s, was a suitable tool.
The acronym "PIGS" was first coined in the 1990s to describe Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain – four peripheral European Union states with the weakest economies. In 2008, it became PIIGS when Ireland was added after its banking crisis.
With all this uncertainty, an unfortunate acronym is back in fashion (despite being widely considered to be derogatory). PIGS usually refers to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, and dates back to the 1990s (when it referred generally to the southern economies of the European Union).
The currently vulnerable economies of Portugal, Greece and Spain are again being grouped together due to high national budget deficits relative to GDP, and high, or rising, government debt levels. Greece has a government debt to GDP level of 120%, Portugal 90% and Spain 54%.
Italy is not suffering to the same extent, and the country's economy returned to growth in the third quarter of 2009.
Also, despite a rise in unemployment in March to almost 9%, Italian output has grown rapidly recently. For this reason, Italy is often replaced in the acronym, rather arbitrarily, by Ireland (which, in 2007, became the first eurozone country to enter recession).
Obviously, the term PIGS is used to indicate in promiscuous mode Ireland and Italy. Therefore, it is quite arbitrary to say that "i" indicates the one or the other of the two countries. In addition, the key economic parameters Ireland delineate a more negative outlook than in Italy: interest rates, debt, banking, financial markets. This is confirmed not only by a lots of sources, but it is quite obvious if we consider the macroeconomic data (deficit: Ireland: -7,3 (2009), -17,0 (2010), -11,0 (2011), -8,3 (2012); Italy: -5,3 (2009), -4,8 (2010), -3,9 (2011), -2,7 (2012); source: IMF) and, above all, the fact that Ireland has received international financial aid, while Italy not only did not received them, but also contributed with a few billion euro to finance Ireland. We should indicate both countries, without going into disquisitions which could paralyze the necessary neutrality.-- Naumakos ( talk) 13:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Many of the references in the article as it currently stands do not support statements they are currently cited as supporting. It appears that over time, statements were changed but references were kept in place. As a consequence, the article looks very well referenced but is in fact now referenced at all.
IMO this bring the entire article in to disrepute and it cannot be trusted. -- RA ( talk) 21:27, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The removal of content based on an interpratation and invocation of WP:DYNAMITE at this article is the subject of discussion at the Administrator's Noticeboard. 12.144.158.19 ( talk) 21:44, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
"Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a slang, jargon or usage guide." Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_dictionary
An acronym is not a term; only that could qualify for an encyclopedia. If really used as a term, is must be combined with a specific thesis, which remains in that case rather unclear, so that it cannot be verified or critized. The conclusion is: that acronym does not qualify for an encyclopedia. -- Meffo ( talk) 12:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
My question to be decided on is here:
Should we allow for PIGS an exception to wiki rules, that wikipedia is about concepts, and which have a reliable encyclopedial source? -- Meffo ( talk) 07:31, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I suggest delete the article and or a {{afd}}-- Nudecline ( talk) 14:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Weak redirect- Move it the more inclusive PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain).-- Its snowing in East Asia ( talk) 10:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Redirect to PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain), PIIGGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Great Britain and Spain), or RUPIIGS (Romania, United Kingdom, Portugal,Italy,Ireland,Greece and Spain). They all come up on variouse fiscal web pages.-- Its snowing in East Asia ( talk) 15:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is the well researched and referenced intro to the actual term:
PIGS, or PIIGS is an acronym used by international bond analysts, [1] [2] [3] academics, [4] [5] [6] and by the international economic press [1] to refer to the mediterranean economies of the current European Union, (specifically in regards issues related to the soverign debt market) of southern Europe: Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain, with Ireland sometimes found more recently [2] as the additional "I" or in lieu of Italy. [7] [8] Because of its vernacular connotation, some news and economic organisations have denounced or banned its usage.
That's it. 99.144.243.71 ( talk) 22:54, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
RE: PIIGS AND OTHER PORCINE STORIES…I’m not sure this has anything to do with religion or dietary laws or with “Nordic” City snobs patronizing Southern Europeans… It’s just a ‘porte-manteau’ easy-to-remember financial term used by traders and economists on both sides of the Atlantic. Re: the “Proposed Corrective Policies” paragraph I’ve started in the article on PIIGS, that DinDraithoum dude keeps on erasing all additions to the article (including mine). He’s adamant this is some kind of “linguistics” orientated article about the acronym’s semantic roots or something, and doesn’t want to understand the real/underlying topic is the current debt crisis in southern EU countries…..I’m at loss for words: the man simply doesn’t want to understand!! Moorehaus —Preceding undated comment added 23:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC).
It's used on this English language web page [3]. -- Wipsenade ( talk) 15:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Well done; you hold Wikipedia clean of vandalism. -- 212.54.219.232 ( talk) 06:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Oh yeah. Some random deucebag journalist used this term and some others repeated it, and then some random "wikipedians" who live somewhere in America decided that it's OK for the people of 5 entire foreign (to them) nations to be referred to as "pigs". Oh, yeah that makes perfect sense because it's "consensus". Oh, and it's also "sourced". I wish I could meet the idiot who introduced voting in wikipedia as a means of establishing "consensus" and explain to him what those terms actually mean in the real world, outside quotes. Until then you can keep this article, it is a fine example of wikipedia's side as an amateur product of pop-culture and source of misinformation. Miskin ( talk) 18:43, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
There's a very interesting article, surprisingly coming from Jamaica, that has been a email hit across europe in the last months, i think it should be mentioned in this article Apology To The So-Called 'PIIGS' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.206.51.69 ( talk) 23:05, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
In at least parts of Europe, "PIIIGS" is not uncommon, since to us it was the Iceland crash that was the opening shot so to say (in Germany I see "PIIIGS" occasionally, but I have not yet seen "PIIGGS"). Google suggests that "GG" is by far more common than "III", but the latter has been lingering for a while, while the former is only becoming popular in the world at large since late 2009/early 2010 (possibly due to the run-up for the UK general elections).
Arguably, if we mention "PIIGGS" we also need to mention "PIIIG(G)S", since only the original "PIIGS" (w/o Iceland) are part of the Euro zone, and including any or both of Iceland and the UK - in whatever combination - extends the meaning of the term from "Euro zone problem states" to "West European countries exposed to critical amounts of rotten credit". ("West European" being here the political - i.e. "former Western Bloc" - rather than the geographic term).
Briefly, "PIIGS" (without Iceland) expresses a monetary problem, adding any letter beyond shifts the term's meaning to express a more general economic problem. Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 17:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been mentioned on the BBC in January. Romania, UK, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain= 'RUPIIGS', but any use of PIIGS or related turms has ended since about May all to geather, despite the crisis contiuing.-- 86.24.27.91 ( talk) 03:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The term PIGS is an economic term for the troubled economies of the Eurozone which endanger the stability of other Eurozone economies, as all Eurozone economies are tied to each other via the Euro. The term doesn't apply to economies which are not a part of the Eurozone because these economies are not tied to others via a single currency. The term PIGS applies to Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain. The variant term PIIGS is also sometimes used, the extra I standing for Italy. PIIGGS is never used, nor is any other variant. If non-Eurozone countries are included in this article, which they never are in the media, then technically even the debt ridden United States economy, the stagnant Japanese economy, the rapidly shrinking Russian economy, the bankrupt Icelandic economy and others could or should be included in this article. Economies of member states of the European Union are not tied to other member states' economies in the same way as Eurozone economies are tied to each other. Many non-Eurozone economies of Eastern European member states of the European Union are currently debt ridden and performing badly, such as Romania, Hungary, and Latvia, though none of these appear on this article. Please stick to the term as used by economists and the media. 88.106.64.134 ( talk) 03:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Since the origin of the phrase PIGS dates back to at least 2000, it is not possible that it contains a "hidden agenda" to draw attention away from the post-2008 state of the US and UK economies. In fact, the Economist article which is cited in support of the idea that some people have interpreted it in this way does not even mention the word PIGS or PIIGS. It is an ironic opinion piece reviewing the general hostile reception to the Spanish transport minister's theories that Spain was the victim of a coordinated conspiracy by the financial markets and the international press. The citation for the Portuguese minister's condemnation of the phrase as racist is a dead link and the Spanish blog cited seems to be a fulmination against the foreign press (particularly the Financial Times ironically) in which the acronym PIIGS is, rather controversially, just translated as "cerdos", Spanish for pigs.
It should at least be mentioned in the current Wikipedia article that the origin of the phrase was in the neutral acronym BAFFLING PIGS, which was simply used as a memonic for remembering all the original participants in the Euro (See the travel section of the Independent Dec 2001: http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/all-change-for-the-euro-663758.html). Its counterpart was DUKS - Denmark, UK and Sweden - EU members which did not participate.
I cannot recall any complaint that either term was racist or insulting until more widely used in the financial crisis.
Whatever its origins, it is clear the acronym - as a clumsily adapted bit of shorthand for the Euro countries arguably facing the most difficulties on the financial markets - is well past its sell-by date. Spain should almost certainly not be in the same category of risk as Ireland and including the UK makes little financial or geographical sense - unless it is simply meant as a derogatory term for any country with a deficit/debt problem, in which case why not include the US, Turkey or anyone else who takes one's fancy. While this may be a matter of opinion, without any citation to the contrary, that is the more likely explanation for it no longer being used in the Financial Times. It has simply become meaningless. As an international newspaper, the FT would also be aware that the phrase - once translated into the local language for the four-legged bacon version - would be seen as particularly unflattering, whatever its own sense of the acronym.
The misuse of citations in support of a shaky thesis and the general tone of the current entry should be amended. The inclusion of the UK in the grouping - although some citations can be found, as for everything - has no historical or intellectually rigourous basis and makes it look like a peevish act of retribution for a supposed anti-mediterranean bias in the original acronym. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.143.5 ( talk) 00:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I have tagged the article as having Multiple issues. I'd like to point out some of them:
Cleanup: As someone indicated before, the BRIC article might be a good example to follow. More specifically, in the current version of PIGS, the "Acronym variation" subsection is unclear and poorly sourced; "The causes of their decline" is unsourced, too simple and probably biased; "The economic fall-out among 'member states'" is not clearly linked to the rest of the article; and the "See also" and "Topical diagrams" sections look like they should be better integrated into the article.
Refimprove: References are lacking (in quantity and quality) in most of the article, and especially in subsections 'Acronym variations' and 'The causes of their decline'.
Citation style: Many references include only the URL; no source name, no author, no date... -- gonzy ( talk) 18:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
When I hear people in Germany on youtube calling Greece "pigs" while Greeks never use the term, I can only think "Hitler, Hitler, Hitler". -- Athinker ( talk) 00:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm presenting this wrong as I'm not an experienced user.
Anyways, the name of the article on a whole should be changed to PIIGS. The acronym refers to the countries use of the EURO currency, and the subsequent weakness displayed of that currency relative to the dollar and yen. There were concerns that the currency as a whole might collaspe. Portugal Italy Greece and Spain were included; this was later amended due to deterioration in Ireland's financial condition. This creates the final PIIGS.
For this reason, the addition of countries such as the U.K., Romania, and Iceland are off point and misused by the media. Also, in reading this discussion, I must point out that the acronym is commonly used in American economic publications and journals such as the WSJ, the Economist, etc. It is not a U.K. creation that was to demean the countries. It is an economic acronym.
There is an excellent comment above that this article should mimic the BRIC article about Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Would an editor please attend to this because in light of Ireland's recent bailout, the inaccuracies and lack of information is disheartening for those who would turn to this site for information about the issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.146.247 ( talk) 06:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
== There's no PIIGGS ==
The citations for the extra G are pathetic. I've never seen any reference to PIIGGS (except by bloggers from P, I, G, and S with wishful thinking). PIGS is a real term used in the markets. Don't use this article to assuage national self-esteem. Unless better sources are inserted in a week, I'm going to delete UK from this article. DeCausa ( talk) 01:32, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
- This is correct. I've tried to remove references, but cannot change the map/file names for the map and bar chart. 94.142.32.114 ( talk) 11:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Sources Below - No Removal Justified
Rodolfou ( talk) 02:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't the "I" in PIGS stand for Ireland? Italy should be the second "I" in PIIGS. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8510603.stm and also http://bx.businessweek.com/irelands-economy/europes-pigs-country-by-country/15556830359292323753-3751dfb9e72be6533f8227d23e647349/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.27.244.146 ( talk) 06:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The main controversy behind the acronym is that it is purposefully discriminatory (e.g., “brown-people discrimination”) as alternatives such as GIPS (but not the possibly derogatory GIPSI or GIPSIs) would still configure a readable acronym without inflaming a North-South divide/conflict (as the original I was for Italy, not Ireland) between Euro-nations and promoting a narrative of “help” from Northern states to Southern states (instead of alternative narratives, e.g. of bank bailouts in disguise).
Other Insulting/Derogatory Acronyms
STUPID - Spain, Turkey, UK, Portugal, Italy and Dubai
FUKD - France, UK and Deutschland
FUKDUS - France, UK, Deutschland and US
Possible Citations
And when you think about that unflattering acronym -- PIGS – you have to ask yourself, who invented it? Where did it come from? My understanding was that it came from an analyst at Goldman Sachs. If so, one is entitled to doubt that was entirely accidental. And I suggest that perhaps it might be useful going forward to change the referent of that acronym to its true meaning: Principal Instigator Goldman Sachs. Comments by James K. Galbraith at a Symposium of the Global Progressive Forum, Res Publica and the Parliamentary European Socialists, Lisbon, July 9, 2010. http://utip.gov.utexas.edu/Flyers/Galbraith%20Lisbon%20I.pdf
But some investors warn that such acronyms, droll as they are, can make the markets less safe. Gerard Fitzpatrick, senior portfolio manager at Russell Investments in London, says: “These acronyms can spread systemic risk. They create herd behaviour, with investors mindlessly running from anything tarred with the PIGS brush.” Jerome Booth agrees: “The problem with all these acronyms is they’re short-cuts. They save you the effort of thinking. Thinking is hard work.” From BRICs to PIGS: what’s in a name? Jules Evans December 6, 2010 http://www.globaldashboard.org/2010/12/06/from-brics-to-pigs-whats-in-a-name/
A particular worry is what could be called the PIGS—Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, Europe's negative version of the fast-growing BRICs. The fear is that these countries may be in a hole they cannot easily climb out of and that the ECB will be pressed into running a looser monetary policy to save them. The ECB at ten - A decade in the sun. The Economist. Jun 5th 2008 | from the print edition http://www.economist.com/node/11487440?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11487440 Rodolfou ( talk) 02:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
General government net debt (% of GDP) International Monetary Fund, April 2011 World Economic Outlook Net debt is calculated as gross debt minus financial assets corresponding to debt instruments. These financial assets are: monetary gold and SDRs, currency and deposits, debt securities, loans, insurance, pension, and standardized guarantee schemes, and other accounts receivable.
General government net lending/borrowing (% of GDP) International Monetary Fund, April 2011 World Economic Outlook Net lending (+)/ borrowing (–) is calculated as revenue minus total expenditure. This is a core GFS balance that measures the extent to which general government is either putting financial resources at the disposal of other sectors in the e...conomy and nonresidents (net lending), or utilizing the financial resources generated by other sectors and nonresidents (net borrowing). This balance may be viewed as an indicator of the financial impact of general government activity on the rest of the economy and nonresidents (GFSM 2001, paragraph 4.17). Note: Net lending (+)/borrowing (–) is also equal to net acquisition of financial assets minus net incurrence of liabilities.
And it is not meant to. It was developed generations ago to group the economic related economies of southern Europe, it's a grouping acronym and nothing more. 76.239.18.21 ( talk) 13:32, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
You forgot Iceland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.10.234.164 ( talk) 00:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Coincidence? I think not. -- 195.74.250.209 ( talk) 01:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I had posted info on the articale that Spain has the lowest public debt according to the graph thats INCLUDED in the article. For some unknown, bizarre reason, you deleted it. I even provided the URL of the graph as excellent reference. Why are you doing this? Are you ok? 12.20.4.100 ( talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.20.4.100 ( talk) 16:34, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I for one know I always edit in favour of both my American culture and my American suprimacy. Martijn Hoekstra ( talk) 22:07, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
What about Iceland? It's occassionally been grouped with the PIIGS, with three I's. 65.94.77.11 ( talk) 14:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
It was refered to in UK press for the UK and Romania in 2008. PA Dennison ( talk) 03:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Romania, UK, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain= 'RUPIIGS', but any use uther than PIIGS or related turms has ended since about May 2009 [ [7]]. PA Dennison ( talk) 03:44, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
PIGS (economics) → PIGS –Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC) Primary topic. Page views: 39,813, 101. Marcus Qwertyus 21:39, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
It seems that many misunderstand this phrase: "similar economic environments" as being synonymous with the ongoing financial crisis.
This is a mistake. The similar economic environment is their grounding as southern European largely Mediterranean agricultural/tourism based economies with (pre-EU) export based soft-money and biased towards inflationary central banking policies. Before the Euro these countries native currency and sovereign debt was largely traded as a bloc and moved together as a group. Similar groupings occur with what are known as commodity currencies as in Australia/Canada/Brazil and elsewhere wherever natural rhythms exist.
The phrase "similar economic environments" should either be explained or replaced - it is not accurately reflecting the term for the purposes of this non-political encyclopedia. 99.50.181.83 ( talk) 15:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for merging with European_sovereign_debt_crisis on 2012-11-09. The result of the discussion was to keep the articles separate.. |
16:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
That's how it is most commonly used, because the original four countries who got into trouble where Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain. Italy only got into trouble later, when its bond rates were rising, too. Even one of the sources used here speaks of Ireland instead of Italy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8510603.stm Also, see this: http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIGS.html Seems there is some confusion about the acronym, and this should be noted in the article. Gray62 ( talk) 21:08, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Many newspapers, which are not scientific, often inappropriately used the term PIGS. We have to use these sources, but we must be careful, because very often, in this matter, some journalists are superficial.
Indeed, Ireland (and not Italy) is included in the term PIGS: to indicate Italy we use the term PIIGS. Though often, reporters who are not specialists tend to interchange the names.
Now let's recap. The ability of a country to finance its debt depends on two variables:
Italy had the lowest budget deficit in Europe, after Germany (-5.3% in 2009, -4.5 in 2010, -3.9 in 2011). Ireland has had a greater deficit (-14.0 in 2009, -17.0 in 2010, -11.0 in 2011).
Interest payments. The difference between the yield of Italian government bonds and German 10 years (spread BOT / bunds) was at most 575. Ireland has reached 2200 points: it was forced to seek help of 85 billion euros in 2010, the European fund EFSF. Italy has never asked for help and will not do so. Even today, Ireland spends more than Italy, to finance its debt.
The confusion stems from the fact that Italy, in July 2011, appeared close to a major political crisis, but not to an economic crisis. The political crisis was due to the controversy between the President Berlusconi and Economics Minister Tremonti, who was considered the guardian of the public accounts.
See the IMF site.-- Naumakos ( talk) 22:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
"So, when in 1995 Italy — along with the other southern countries of Portugal, Greece and Spain — finally made it to the borderless Europe, signs of elation were palpable … The euphoria, however, did not last long. European clerks in Brussels soon started referring to the Giovannios-come-lately with an unflattering acronym: Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain — the PIGS, no less, as Linday Waters reported." — Roberto M. Dainotto (2006), Europe (in Theory), Durham: Duke University Press, p. 2, ISBN 9780822339274
"In early 2010 public focus moved from the external indebtedness of Eastern Europe and risks to its banking system to the public indebtedness of the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain) and the possible risk of sovereign default, especially in Greece." - Anders Åslund (2010), The Last Shall be the First: The East European Financial Crisis, 2008-10, Washington, DC: Peterson Institute, p. 29, ISBN 9780881325218
"The real problem came when this analysis was extended to the rest of the heavily indebted periphery — commonly referred to in such accounts as the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain) group. Ireland was sometimes thrown in as a second 'I'. This was unfair and inaccurate, particularly as regards Spain and Ireland, which had been running a budget leading up to the crisis." —John Quiggin (2012), Zombie Economics: How Dead Ideas Still Walk among Us, Princeton University Press, p. 229, ISBN 9781400842087
"A particular worry is what could be called the PIGS—Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, Europe's negative version of the fast-growing BRICs."
"As the Economist reported during the Maastricht negotiations, the limits were chosen by an alliance of German, Dutch, British, and other officials with the intention of "keeping the PIGS out." "PIGS" alluded to Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain, where were deemed to be prone to fiscal profligacy and infation." — Bradley W. Bateman; Toshiaki Hirai; Maria Cristina Marcuzzo (2010), The Return to Keynes, Harvard University Press, p. 62, ISBN 9780674035386
The dispute is over whether the term PIGS originally included "Ireland" or "Italy" and when Italy became associated with the term.
The statements below, added by Naumakos, I think, are contradicted by reliable sources (I've underlined the particular issues):
The version here, I feel, is more accurate:
Additionally, I believe the map Naumakos has added reflects Wikipedia:Recentism (and even then inaccurately) rather than a neutral historical perspective on the term.
35 sources with quotations are refernce in the version I link above. The following are particularly relevant, I feel (note the dates, also):
In general, the weakest EU economies, called PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain), are best avoided in the near term. In recent times Ireland has also been associated with the PIGS countries and the acronym has been modified to become PIIGS. However considering Ireland's public debt as a % of GDP, it is an unfortunate comparison.
Disse europeiske landene har i finansverdenen gått under økenavnet PiGS-land (Portugal, Italia, Hellas (Greece) og Spania) siden 1997. Etter at finanskrisen inntraff, og det ble økt fokus på europeiske lands statsfinanser, har også Irland og Storbritannia blitt knyttet til PIGS, noe som gjør at man nå både har samlebetegnelsene PIIGS og PIIGGS.(Translation: "These European countries have in the financial world gone under the nickname PIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Greece (Greece) and Spain) since 1997. After the financial crisis struck, and there was increased focus on European countries' public finances, also Ireland and the UK have been linked to the PIGS, which means that you now have both collective term PIIGS and PIIGGS.)")
"PIGS in Muck" — this was how, using the acronym 'PIGS' for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, the Financial Times London had titled an edit on August 31, 2008. … Unlike in 2008, now it is no more just PIGS that drag the EU down. The PIGS club has now expanded, with Ireland first, and ironically, Great Britain next, as the newly qualified members of the PIGS, making it PIIGGS (adding another 'I', for Ireland and another 'G', for Great Britain).
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help)PIGS, PIIGS and PIIGGS are acronyms that originally referred to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain (PIGS). Since the financial crisis of 2007–2010, Ireland (PIIGS) and, more recently, the United Kingdom (Great Britain, PIIGGS) have become associated with the term. The term became popular again during the financial crisis of 2007–2010 when the economies of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain were seen as especially vulnerable due to high or rising government debt levels and a high government deficits relative to annual GDP.
-- RA ( talk) 12:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
"PIGS is an acronym that refers to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain.[cite] [<--This reflects the most common use] Some economists use the "I" to refer to Ireland,[cite] and the acronym PIIGS is also used to refer to both Italy and Ireland.[cite]"
The widely read financial blog of the Financial Times commented: "In the euro zone, there has always been a quartet of nations with a somewhat unstable rating position: the PIGS. That is, Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Rating agency S&P though, in a slew of rating renouncements this week, has affirmed Italy's A+. So we need a new vulnerable I on the cusp of downgrade. Step in, Ireland. With a AAA rating." In this psychological game of "group dynamics", there was an unconscious need to blame, isolate, and shame the weakest. The "PIGS" brand, born in the 1990s, was a suitable tool.
The acronym "PIGS" was first coined in the 1990s to describe Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain – four peripheral European Union states with the weakest economies. In 2008, it became PIIGS when Ireland was added after its banking crisis.
With all this uncertainty, an unfortunate acronym is back in fashion (despite being widely considered to be derogatory). PIGS usually refers to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, and dates back to the 1990s (when it referred generally to the southern economies of the European Union).
The currently vulnerable economies of Portugal, Greece and Spain are again being grouped together due to high national budget deficits relative to GDP, and high, or rising, government debt levels. Greece has a government debt to GDP level of 120%, Portugal 90% and Spain 54%.
Italy is not suffering to the same extent, and the country's economy returned to growth in the third quarter of 2009.
Also, despite a rise in unemployment in March to almost 9%, Italian output has grown rapidly recently. For this reason, Italy is often replaced in the acronym, rather arbitrarily, by Ireland (which, in 2007, became the first eurozone country to enter recession).
Obviously, the term PIGS is used to indicate in promiscuous mode Ireland and Italy. Therefore, it is quite arbitrary to say that "i" indicates the one or the other of the two countries. In addition, the key economic parameters Ireland delineate a more negative outlook than in Italy: interest rates, debt, banking, financial markets. This is confirmed not only by a lots of sources, but it is quite obvious if we consider the macroeconomic data (deficit: Ireland: -7,3 (2009), -17,0 (2010), -11,0 (2011), -8,3 (2012); Italy: -5,3 (2009), -4,8 (2010), -3,9 (2011), -2,7 (2012); source: IMF) and, above all, the fact that Ireland has received international financial aid, while Italy not only did not received them, but also contributed with a few billion euro to finance Ireland. We should indicate both countries, without going into disquisitions which could paralyze the necessary neutrality.-- Naumakos ( talk) 13:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Many of the references in the article as it currently stands do not support statements they are currently cited as supporting. It appears that over time, statements were changed but references were kept in place. As a consequence, the article looks very well referenced but is in fact now referenced at all.
IMO this bring the entire article in to disrepute and it cannot be trusted. -- RA ( talk) 21:27, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The removal of content based on an interpratation and invocation of WP:DYNAMITE at this article is the subject of discussion at the Administrator's Noticeboard. 12.144.158.19 ( talk) 21:44, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
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