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Having considered the state of Sabbath articles closely, I think there is still one topic to create, namely Biblical Sabbath. Currently this phrase redirects to the summary article "Sabbath" even though that article includes many other Sabbath adaptations that are not Biblical. A new article would compile the Biblical references to Sabbath in a thorough, orderly way, and give all the main viewpoints and interpretations of each passage (compare creation according to Genesis, figs in the Bible, wells in the Bible, etc.). None of the current articles do either of these, because they are quite rightly focused on Sabbath in this or that mainstream viewpoint. However, the notion of "Sabbath as the Bible describes it, without making judgments in favor of any viewpoint" is a topic frequently discussed but lacking. No need to warn me about POV risks, because I am already on duty policing those. It is just my observation that, very often, a WP editor wants to refer just to that notion, "Biblical Sabbath with essentially no POV", and has no recourse to do so (as noted, the summary "Sabbath" article is not Biblically limited, and the Biblically based articles give only one POV each). Particularly, there are many links to "Sabbath" that should very clearly, in context, be directed to Biblical Sabbath, and permitting the weaker link is suboptimal and easily remediable. Also, many of the IP contributors to "Sabbath" would do better to have such a separate article; and some of the debates about where to put this or that apologetic (if at all) would be more readily solved if there were a central article. I will be happy to move this forward, but I wanted to get a couple more opinions first, to confirm my belief that this is a good division of topics. Cross-posted to Shabbat, Sabbath in Christianity, and Sabbath in seventh-day churches. JJB 05:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I've moved the following section to Talk: for further discussion:
Some prominent rabbis believe Shabbat was originally dependent upon the lunar cycle, [1] with one or two additional unreckoned days. [2]
As is obvious, the first sentence is pure weasel worded POV. Who are these rabbis? What makes them "prominent"? As it happens, I'm the person on Wikipedia who has written the closest thing to a biography on one of them, Isaac Landman. Landman was, in his time, moderately well known known for a combination of things, including his ecumenical work, his political stances, his editing of American Hebrew Magazine, and his publication of his New Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. He was not "prominent" in any particularly scholarly way. The fact that this single, 65 year-old work seems to be the only source for this "lunar sabbath" theory should be a big WP:REDFLAG to editors here that they are giving WP:UNDUE weight to a WP:FRINGE theory. If there are other, scholarly (and more recent) sources that also promote this theory, then I would be happy to re-evaluate. But, as it stands, the material is highly problematic. Jayjg (talk) 00:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
In a minority Jewish view, the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia states that Shabbat was originally dependent upon the lunar cycle, [3] [4] with one or two additional unreckoned days. [5]
Well, I guess I thought that the majority view was obvious. In that case, all you need is a full and balanced paragraph on "origin of Shabbat". No problem, try my next. JJB 05:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Putting aside all the discussion above, which is important in itself, but I have read and re-read the section on Origin and I find it incomprehensible. I am still trying to work what is the point that is being made. Ewawer ( talk) 03:38, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
The 4 Lunar Phases of the 29.53 day Lunar month are roughly 7 days (~7.4 days) each. The Hebrew Calendar - like the Arabic Calendar - is a lunar calendar that alternates between 29 and 30 days. This explains the prominence of the #30 in Holy Scriptures. The Hebrews' Genasis Creation Story was an alternate version of previous Egyptian Religion Creation Stories. Whoever conceived of the ancient Hebrews' version - Moses? - knew the precept of sacred geometry: "As above, so below" and connected the 7-Day Creation Story to the heavens. They also knew the GOD=7_4 Code and made sure that on the 4th Day, "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the sky to separate the day and the night, and let them serve as signs, and to mark seasons, days, years and omens." The seventh(7 letters) day Shabbat(7)/Shabbos(7)/Sabbath(7) and 4 weeks in a 'moonth' encodes something really BIG! - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:51, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
We simply must cover the international date line debate, which is highly relevant from various perspectives, and one of the great debates in modern halacha. This should be either in this article or in a separate split-off. JFW | T@lk 13:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Can you elaborate more on how the end-of-Sabbath line is drawn? Three stars as end-of-Sabbath - are they specific named stars or just any stars? What happens on cloudy, starless nights? Polar nights? TIA, NVO ( talk) 19:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Should there be a bit of discussion? for example these beliefs are accepted as historic artefacts from a different era - like those concerning safe eating in the desert, clean feet etc. It would add balance to the article to find references to some discussions on the relevance of this stuff to modern life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.48.235 ( talk) 16:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
this line
Shabbat is the seventh day of the Jewish week and a day of rest in Judaism. Shabbat is observed from sundown Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night. The exact time, therefore, differs from week to week and from place to place, depending on the time of sunset at each location.
What are the rules north of the arctic circle, if it is night time always, or conversly day time always. Seems like a dumb question but if there is an actual rule for such a sitiuation it may be informative in the article. I really doubt there is an actual rule for this. Smitty1337 ( talk) 22:00, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Guess my question isnt as dumb as i thought lol Jewish law in the polar regions google found me a wiki article on it....imma go link it here after i read it and make sure its relevent. Smitty1337 ( talk) 22:22, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I've removed this para from the article because it's both untrue and unsourced:
The principle of weekly Sabbath has also been adopted, instituted, or modified in other beliefs: compare the Babylonian calendar, the Buddhist uposatha, the Islamic jumu'ah, the pagan sabbat, the Bahá'í calendar, the Unification Church Ahn Shi Il, and the parody-religion Pastafarian weekend.
I don't know about all of these religions, but I do know it's untrue for the Babylonians and Buddhists. Buddhists don't give any particular note to Sundays or to any other day of the week. As for the Babylon, the influence works the other way round - it was the Jews who adopted Sabbath-observance from the Babylonians. The whole thing is unsourced in any case. Either find sources for each of these, or leave it out. PiCo ( talk) 02:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
The entire "Further reading" section is real marginal and perhaps should go; there are probably thousands of books about Shabbat history, practices, etc; what's so special about these? -- jpgordon ::==( o ) 02:44, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be some mention of Non-Jews not being permitted to keep Shabbos? And that someone who publicly desecrated Shabbos cannot be counted in a minyan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.252.3.157 ( talk) 01:11, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
No. First, Shabbos is Yiddish. In Hebrew, it's Shabbat and in English: Sabbath: it's the 'seventh day of rest'. If a Christian choses to observe their Sabbath on Saturday or even Friday sunset to Saturday sunset - like many do - that is certainly "permitted" by GOD! Note: Shabbat(7 letters)/Shabbos(7)/Sabbath(7) on the seventh(7) day. - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:16, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
What the heck does this mean?
It doesn't make much sense to me. -- 194.176.105.147 ( talk) 15:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
This seems somewhat suggestive and possible prurient, not to mention confusing. Wouldn't it be more sensible just to say 'sexual relations'? Harburg ( talk) 18:04, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Enjoying Shabbat (oneg Shabbat): Engaging in pleasurable activities such as eating, singing, spending time with the family and marital relations.
- Enjoying Shabbat (oneg Shabbat): Engaging in pleasurable activities such as eating, singing, spending time with the family and marital sex.
It looks as if this article title may not be following WP naming policy, or WP:RS such as www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12962-sabbath etc? In ictu oculi ( talk) 19:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
In the section "Technology in the service of Shabbat" the article mentions a "resistor network" to store energy from elevators. I get the general idea, but resistor networks don't store energy. I presume what you are talking about here is some kind of big capacitor or rechargable battery, or maybe even an enormous flywheel. This is a point about physics, not Judaism, but it could stand some reconsideration. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 00:34, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I added a link under the 'Prohibited activities' section to the 'Activities prohibited on Shabbat' page because for some reason it took me ages to find that particular page from this one and it also seemed to make sense. This is the first time I've edited wikipedia, so hope that was ok and sorry about having to correct what I was doing a couple of times :=]
118.149.61.13 ( talk) 02:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Hebrew: Shabbat, Yiddish: Shabbos, English: Sabbath. - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:08, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Although the Yiddish pronunciation is Shabbos/Shabbis, it is written as שבת, the same spelling as in Hebrew.
so it is on friday-saturday but is the 7th day of the week? i'm confused McTreevil ( talk) 11:50, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I moved this content to the article Siddur, as the content was about the siddur, not about Shabbat per se. To the original (IP) author, please keep in mind: I moved the content, I did not purge nor suppress it.
I would add: Content about Shabbat-specific prayer books probably belongs more in the Siddur article than here in any event. But if someone disagrees, adds content discussing Shabbat-specific prayer books broadly, and includes information on this siddur, that would be a legitimate approach. Information only about this siddur in this article would not be. StevenJ81 ( talk) 14:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
@ Moscowonthehudson today added a number of pronunciations for Shabbat using IPA. (Thank you for a useful addition.) My question to you and others is:
I hear it both ways. I'd say that on the whole, people who are more knowledgeable/more involved tend to use a, or at least something that's closer to a than to ə, even when speaking English. But I do know people who do the opposite; maybe it's the larger number of people, even if less knowledgeable/less involved. I don't know. I basically just want to figure this out and get it right before we forget it's here. StevenJ81 ( talk) 14:28, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
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Netems2050 has twice added material based on an image of a calendar found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, writing that it "reveals" the Essenes celebrated Shabbat on the 4th day. Unfortunately, that novel interpretation does not appear to be supported by reliable secondary sources.
According to Lawrence H. Schiffman's article about the Sabbath in Encyclopedia of the Dead Sea Scrolls (Oxford University Press, 2000; Lawrence H. Schiffman and James C. VanderKam, eds.), "The Damascus Document ... had much in common with rabbinic legal rulings, but often it tended to be stricter. Both prohibited talking about business, walking in fields to discuss might be done after the Sabbath, allowing non-Jews to do work prohibited to Jews on behalf of Jews, and preparing on the Sabbath for the following workdays. Both systems required that Sabbath observance begin somewhat earlier than sunset on Friday afternoon, and it is possible that the Qumran sect was stricter than the later rabbis. Walking beyond the Sabbath limit was prohibited, based on Exodus 16.29. The rabbis fixed the limit at 2,000 cubits while the sectarians limited it to 1,000 allowing one to walk 2,000 cubits beyond the settled area only if pasturing an animal. The sect did not allow the breaking of an airtight seal on a jar, or any preparation of food, even the peeling of vegetables that were to be eaten raw on the same day, but the rabbis only prohibited actual cooking." (p. 805, emphasis added)
Surely if the Qumran sect observed Shabbat on the 4th day of the week and not the 7th day, Schiffman would note that significant difference between Qumran and rabbinic observance of Shabbat, but instead he only points out that the Qumran sect likely started to observe Shabbat earlier on Friday afternoon than rabbinic Jews.
Relying on one's own interpretation of primary sources is a bad idea, especially in a topic area as well researched as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumran community. — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 03:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
I am not citing a photo I am citing page 192-193 of the calendar that was translated, the facts without what you believe is my interpretation is it shows the Sabbath as day No 4, 11, 18, 25 then 2nd month day 2, 9, 16 and so on. This is very important. We all know as Jews that the first day of Abib is the new moon and thats been that way for thousands of years. We must get back to Truth of God , I leave it to you, lastly according to this Essene calendar in 2018 the new moon of Jerusalem for Abib (Nisan) fell on Sunday 17th March starting at sunset and 3 days later is sunset Tuesday which the Essenes would have kept for the rest of the year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netems2050 ( talk • contribs) 13:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
I am sorry there are no secondary sources as I am the first to see the link of the Dead Sea Scroll Calendar to Genesis and decode its mechanics. I have searched to see if there are others but I am alone but what I have stated is true I cannot even give you my name User:Netems2050 —Preceding undated comment added 09:54, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is incomplete in that it lacks info on various different Sephardic and other non-Ashkenazic Jewish Shabbat practices. Pokey54 ( talk) 03:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
@ StevenJ81: My tradition is Western Sephardic, and my comments aren't meant to apply to other minhagim. Our rule is to use the most lenient interpretation of Jewish law that is consistent with the Torah. I agree that some relatively esoteric, minor issues probably have no place in this article. This might be one of them: Some Sephardim welcome Shabbat by lighting oil lamps, not candles. Whether using candles or oil lamps, the number of flames is usually 2 or 3, irrespective of family size. Only the woman of the house recites the prayer.
I think that we place more importance on intent over result than other Jews. For example, we don't unscrew the refrigerator light bulb for Shabbat because (1) when we open the door, the intent is not to light the bulb; and (2) many of us follow the rule that electricity is not fire and that turning an electric appliance on or off is like opening or closing a door, so is allowable. Cooking is, of course, forbidden, but reheating food is allowed. Adding water (up to 50% of the volume of the food in the pot) that's heating on a hotplate ("blech" in Yiddish) is allowed, as often as is needed, if water is needed to prevent the food from being ruined. We are not allowed to adjust the heat, however.
Some Mizrahi, Maghrebi and Iranian minhagim also differ, but I can't speak to them.
Pokey54 ( talk) 22:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
@StevenJ81 Hello, I know this is late but I hope @
StevenJ81: is still around for this - my background is sepharadi in the traditional, religious sense. For halachot like this we have two views across all of mena and europe, which follows: there is a general halachic tradition of am yisrael, ie all jews follow these authorities, and then it goes down to community custom. I will open a new topic on this but I also want to change the page to reflect a non-specific community point of view to depict a more general and non restricted understanding of Shabbat that is universal, and then delves into community traditions. What I have issue with in this regard however is the understanding of history on custom. I won't be citing here because I don't have the time but when I make the new topic and re-work the article I will always provide reliable sources.
66.142.221.236 ( talk) 18:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the English plural for Shabbos? Shabbosim? In Hebrew it is "Shabbat -> Shabbatot", but I am asking about the Yiddish-influenced English convention. Debresser ( talk) 15:16, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
If an editor challenges non-English terms, or words or phrases in non-Latin character sets, per WP:V, must another editor supply a reliable secondary source that indicates the translation, spelling, and orthography as reflected in the article? Elizium23 ( talk) 19:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
There's been some discussion about pronunciation in edit summaries so I wanted to clarify: In colloquial Ashkenazic Hebrew almost every word is penultimately stressed. Because stress affects vowel length, a two-syllable word like Shabbat, which is ultimately stressed in Tiberian/Sephardic/Modern Hebrew, becomes Shobbis. However, this isn't typically reflected in English spellings. So, while I don't think it should be the main spelling on wiki, this pronunciation certainly isn't "local" and certainly is "mainstream". Almost all Orthodox Jews in America pronounce it this way, and about half of Jews worldwide. GordonGlottal ( talk) 18:54, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
I think it's significant enough to mention in the lead that Samaritans also observe Shabbat. Synotia ( talk) 20:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Off-topic discussion
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Whats POV is to call Samaritans a marginal group. This article is about a religious concept not a religious group. Pngeditor ( talk) 02:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC) Should be about a concept not a group! Pngeditor ( talk) 02:30, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Insignificant is even worse than marginalised. All you had to say was numerically smaller. Pngeditor ( talk) 18:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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Having considered the state of Sabbath articles closely, I think there is still one topic to create, namely Biblical Sabbath. Currently this phrase redirects to the summary article "Sabbath" even though that article includes many other Sabbath adaptations that are not Biblical. A new article would compile the Biblical references to Sabbath in a thorough, orderly way, and give all the main viewpoints and interpretations of each passage (compare creation according to Genesis, figs in the Bible, wells in the Bible, etc.). None of the current articles do either of these, because they are quite rightly focused on Sabbath in this or that mainstream viewpoint. However, the notion of "Sabbath as the Bible describes it, without making judgments in favor of any viewpoint" is a topic frequently discussed but lacking. No need to warn me about POV risks, because I am already on duty policing those. It is just my observation that, very often, a WP editor wants to refer just to that notion, "Biblical Sabbath with essentially no POV", and has no recourse to do so (as noted, the summary "Sabbath" article is not Biblically limited, and the Biblically based articles give only one POV each). Particularly, there are many links to "Sabbath" that should very clearly, in context, be directed to Biblical Sabbath, and permitting the weaker link is suboptimal and easily remediable. Also, many of the IP contributors to "Sabbath" would do better to have such a separate article; and some of the debates about where to put this or that apologetic (if at all) would be more readily solved if there were a central article. I will be happy to move this forward, but I wanted to get a couple more opinions first, to confirm my belief that this is a good division of topics. Cross-posted to Shabbat, Sabbath in Christianity, and Sabbath in seventh-day churches. JJB 05:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I've moved the following section to Talk: for further discussion:
Some prominent rabbis believe Shabbat was originally dependent upon the lunar cycle, [1] with one or two additional unreckoned days. [2]
As is obvious, the first sentence is pure weasel worded POV. Who are these rabbis? What makes them "prominent"? As it happens, I'm the person on Wikipedia who has written the closest thing to a biography on one of them, Isaac Landman. Landman was, in his time, moderately well known known for a combination of things, including his ecumenical work, his political stances, his editing of American Hebrew Magazine, and his publication of his New Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. He was not "prominent" in any particularly scholarly way. The fact that this single, 65 year-old work seems to be the only source for this "lunar sabbath" theory should be a big WP:REDFLAG to editors here that they are giving WP:UNDUE weight to a WP:FRINGE theory. If there are other, scholarly (and more recent) sources that also promote this theory, then I would be happy to re-evaluate. But, as it stands, the material is highly problematic. Jayjg (talk) 00:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
In a minority Jewish view, the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia states that Shabbat was originally dependent upon the lunar cycle, [3] [4] with one or two additional unreckoned days. [5]
Well, I guess I thought that the majority view was obvious. In that case, all you need is a full and balanced paragraph on "origin of Shabbat". No problem, try my next. JJB 05:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Putting aside all the discussion above, which is important in itself, but I have read and re-read the section on Origin and I find it incomprehensible. I am still trying to work what is the point that is being made. Ewawer ( talk) 03:38, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
The 4 Lunar Phases of the 29.53 day Lunar month are roughly 7 days (~7.4 days) each. The Hebrew Calendar - like the Arabic Calendar - is a lunar calendar that alternates between 29 and 30 days. This explains the prominence of the #30 in Holy Scriptures. The Hebrews' Genasis Creation Story was an alternate version of previous Egyptian Religion Creation Stories. Whoever conceived of the ancient Hebrews' version - Moses? - knew the precept of sacred geometry: "As above, so below" and connected the 7-Day Creation Story to the heavens. They also knew the GOD=7_4 Code and made sure that on the 4th Day, "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the sky to separate the day and the night, and let them serve as signs, and to mark seasons, days, years and omens." The seventh(7 letters) day Shabbat(7)/Shabbos(7)/Sabbath(7) and 4 weeks in a 'moonth' encodes something really BIG! - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:51, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
We simply must cover the international date line debate, which is highly relevant from various perspectives, and one of the great debates in modern halacha. This should be either in this article or in a separate split-off. JFW | T@lk 13:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Can you elaborate more on how the end-of-Sabbath line is drawn? Three stars as end-of-Sabbath - are they specific named stars or just any stars? What happens on cloudy, starless nights? Polar nights? TIA, NVO ( talk) 19:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Should there be a bit of discussion? for example these beliefs are accepted as historic artefacts from a different era - like those concerning safe eating in the desert, clean feet etc. It would add balance to the article to find references to some discussions on the relevance of this stuff to modern life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.48.235 ( talk) 16:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
this line
Shabbat is the seventh day of the Jewish week and a day of rest in Judaism. Shabbat is observed from sundown Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night. The exact time, therefore, differs from week to week and from place to place, depending on the time of sunset at each location.
What are the rules north of the arctic circle, if it is night time always, or conversly day time always. Seems like a dumb question but if there is an actual rule for such a sitiuation it may be informative in the article. I really doubt there is an actual rule for this. Smitty1337 ( talk) 22:00, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Guess my question isnt as dumb as i thought lol Jewish law in the polar regions google found me a wiki article on it....imma go link it here after i read it and make sure its relevent. Smitty1337 ( talk) 22:22, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I've removed this para from the article because it's both untrue and unsourced:
The principle of weekly Sabbath has also been adopted, instituted, or modified in other beliefs: compare the Babylonian calendar, the Buddhist uposatha, the Islamic jumu'ah, the pagan sabbat, the Bahá'í calendar, the Unification Church Ahn Shi Il, and the parody-religion Pastafarian weekend.
I don't know about all of these religions, but I do know it's untrue for the Babylonians and Buddhists. Buddhists don't give any particular note to Sundays or to any other day of the week. As for the Babylon, the influence works the other way round - it was the Jews who adopted Sabbath-observance from the Babylonians. The whole thing is unsourced in any case. Either find sources for each of these, or leave it out. PiCo ( talk) 02:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
The entire "Further reading" section is real marginal and perhaps should go; there are probably thousands of books about Shabbat history, practices, etc; what's so special about these? -- jpgordon ::==( o ) 02:44, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be some mention of Non-Jews not being permitted to keep Shabbos? And that someone who publicly desecrated Shabbos cannot be counted in a minyan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.252.3.157 ( talk) 01:11, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
No. First, Shabbos is Yiddish. In Hebrew, it's Shabbat and in English: Sabbath: it's the 'seventh day of rest'. If a Christian choses to observe their Sabbath on Saturday or even Friday sunset to Saturday sunset - like many do - that is certainly "permitted" by GOD! Note: Shabbat(7 letters)/Shabbos(7)/Sabbath(7) on the seventh(7) day. - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:16, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
What the heck does this mean?
It doesn't make much sense to me. -- 194.176.105.147 ( talk) 15:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
This seems somewhat suggestive and possible prurient, not to mention confusing. Wouldn't it be more sensible just to say 'sexual relations'? Harburg ( talk) 18:04, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Enjoying Shabbat (oneg Shabbat): Engaging in pleasurable activities such as eating, singing, spending time with the family and marital relations.
- Enjoying Shabbat (oneg Shabbat): Engaging in pleasurable activities such as eating, singing, spending time with the family and marital sex.
It looks as if this article title may not be following WP naming policy, or WP:RS such as www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12962-sabbath etc? In ictu oculi ( talk) 19:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
In the section "Technology in the service of Shabbat" the article mentions a "resistor network" to store energy from elevators. I get the general idea, but resistor networks don't store energy. I presume what you are talking about here is some kind of big capacitor or rechargable battery, or maybe even an enormous flywheel. This is a point about physics, not Judaism, but it could stand some reconsideration. Rob Burbidge ( talk) 00:34, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I added a link under the 'Prohibited activities' section to the 'Activities prohibited on Shabbat' page because for some reason it took me ages to find that particular page from this one and it also seemed to make sense. This is the first time I've edited wikipedia, so hope that was ok and sorry about having to correct what I was doing a couple of times :=]
118.149.61.13 ( talk) 02:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Hebrew: Shabbat, Yiddish: Shabbos, English: Sabbath. - Benjamin Franklin 75.74.157.29 ( talk) 22:08, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Although the Yiddish pronunciation is Shabbos/Shabbis, it is written as שבת, the same spelling as in Hebrew.
so it is on friday-saturday but is the 7th day of the week? i'm confused McTreevil ( talk) 11:50, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I moved this content to the article Siddur, as the content was about the siddur, not about Shabbat per se. To the original (IP) author, please keep in mind: I moved the content, I did not purge nor suppress it.
I would add: Content about Shabbat-specific prayer books probably belongs more in the Siddur article than here in any event. But if someone disagrees, adds content discussing Shabbat-specific prayer books broadly, and includes information on this siddur, that would be a legitimate approach. Information only about this siddur in this article would not be. StevenJ81 ( talk) 14:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
@ Moscowonthehudson today added a number of pronunciations for Shabbat using IPA. (Thank you for a useful addition.) My question to you and others is:
I hear it both ways. I'd say that on the whole, people who are more knowledgeable/more involved tend to use a, or at least something that's closer to a than to ə, even when speaking English. But I do know people who do the opposite; maybe it's the larger number of people, even if less knowledgeable/less involved. I don't know. I basically just want to figure this out and get it right before we forget it's here. StevenJ81 ( talk) 14:28, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
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Netems2050 has twice added material based on an image of a calendar found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, writing that it "reveals" the Essenes celebrated Shabbat on the 4th day. Unfortunately, that novel interpretation does not appear to be supported by reliable secondary sources.
According to Lawrence H. Schiffman's article about the Sabbath in Encyclopedia of the Dead Sea Scrolls (Oxford University Press, 2000; Lawrence H. Schiffman and James C. VanderKam, eds.), "The Damascus Document ... had much in common with rabbinic legal rulings, but often it tended to be stricter. Both prohibited talking about business, walking in fields to discuss might be done after the Sabbath, allowing non-Jews to do work prohibited to Jews on behalf of Jews, and preparing on the Sabbath for the following workdays. Both systems required that Sabbath observance begin somewhat earlier than sunset on Friday afternoon, and it is possible that the Qumran sect was stricter than the later rabbis. Walking beyond the Sabbath limit was prohibited, based on Exodus 16.29. The rabbis fixed the limit at 2,000 cubits while the sectarians limited it to 1,000 allowing one to walk 2,000 cubits beyond the settled area only if pasturing an animal. The sect did not allow the breaking of an airtight seal on a jar, or any preparation of food, even the peeling of vegetables that were to be eaten raw on the same day, but the rabbis only prohibited actual cooking." (p. 805, emphasis added)
Surely if the Qumran sect observed Shabbat on the 4th day of the week and not the 7th day, Schiffman would note that significant difference between Qumran and rabbinic observance of Shabbat, but instead he only points out that the Qumran sect likely started to observe Shabbat earlier on Friday afternoon than rabbinic Jews.
Relying on one's own interpretation of primary sources is a bad idea, especially in a topic area as well researched as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumran community. — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 03:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
I am not citing a photo I am citing page 192-193 of the calendar that was translated, the facts without what you believe is my interpretation is it shows the Sabbath as day No 4, 11, 18, 25 then 2nd month day 2, 9, 16 and so on. This is very important. We all know as Jews that the first day of Abib is the new moon and thats been that way for thousands of years. We must get back to Truth of God , I leave it to you, lastly according to this Essene calendar in 2018 the new moon of Jerusalem for Abib (Nisan) fell on Sunday 17th March starting at sunset and 3 days later is sunset Tuesday which the Essenes would have kept for the rest of the year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netems2050 ( talk • contribs) 13:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
I am sorry there are no secondary sources as I am the first to see the link of the Dead Sea Scroll Calendar to Genesis and decode its mechanics. I have searched to see if there are others but I am alone but what I have stated is true I cannot even give you my name User:Netems2050 —Preceding undated comment added 09:54, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is incomplete in that it lacks info on various different Sephardic and other non-Ashkenazic Jewish Shabbat practices. Pokey54 ( talk) 03:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
@ StevenJ81: My tradition is Western Sephardic, and my comments aren't meant to apply to other minhagim. Our rule is to use the most lenient interpretation of Jewish law that is consistent with the Torah. I agree that some relatively esoteric, minor issues probably have no place in this article. This might be one of them: Some Sephardim welcome Shabbat by lighting oil lamps, not candles. Whether using candles or oil lamps, the number of flames is usually 2 or 3, irrespective of family size. Only the woman of the house recites the prayer.
I think that we place more importance on intent over result than other Jews. For example, we don't unscrew the refrigerator light bulb for Shabbat because (1) when we open the door, the intent is not to light the bulb; and (2) many of us follow the rule that electricity is not fire and that turning an electric appliance on or off is like opening or closing a door, so is allowable. Cooking is, of course, forbidden, but reheating food is allowed. Adding water (up to 50% of the volume of the food in the pot) that's heating on a hotplate ("blech" in Yiddish) is allowed, as often as is needed, if water is needed to prevent the food from being ruined. We are not allowed to adjust the heat, however.
Some Mizrahi, Maghrebi and Iranian minhagim also differ, but I can't speak to them.
Pokey54 ( talk) 22:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
@StevenJ81 Hello, I know this is late but I hope @
StevenJ81: is still around for this - my background is sepharadi in the traditional, religious sense. For halachot like this we have two views across all of mena and europe, which follows: there is a general halachic tradition of am yisrael, ie all jews follow these authorities, and then it goes down to community custom. I will open a new topic on this but I also want to change the page to reflect a non-specific community point of view to depict a more general and non restricted understanding of Shabbat that is universal, and then delves into community traditions. What I have issue with in this regard however is the understanding of history on custom. I won't be citing here because I don't have the time but when I make the new topic and re-work the article I will always provide reliable sources.
66.142.221.236 ( talk) 18:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the English plural for Shabbos? Shabbosim? In Hebrew it is "Shabbat -> Shabbatot", but I am asking about the Yiddish-influenced English convention. Debresser ( talk) 15:16, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
If an editor challenges non-English terms, or words or phrases in non-Latin character sets, per WP:V, must another editor supply a reliable secondary source that indicates the translation, spelling, and orthography as reflected in the article? Elizium23 ( talk) 19:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
There's been some discussion about pronunciation in edit summaries so I wanted to clarify: In colloquial Ashkenazic Hebrew almost every word is penultimately stressed. Because stress affects vowel length, a two-syllable word like Shabbat, which is ultimately stressed in Tiberian/Sephardic/Modern Hebrew, becomes Shobbis. However, this isn't typically reflected in English spellings. So, while I don't think it should be the main spelling on wiki, this pronunciation certainly isn't "local" and certainly is "mainstream". Almost all Orthodox Jews in America pronounce it this way, and about half of Jews worldwide. GordonGlottal ( talk) 18:54, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
I think it's significant enough to mention in the lead that Samaritans also observe Shabbat. Synotia ( talk) 20:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Off-topic discussion
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Whats POV is to call Samaritans a marginal group. This article is about a religious concept not a religious group. Pngeditor ( talk) 02:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC) Should be about a concept not a group! Pngeditor ( talk) 02:30, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Insignificant is even worse than marginalised. All you had to say was numerically smaller. Pngeditor ( talk) 18:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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