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The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Good question, Greg. Firstly, a ward and a bailey are the same thing in castle parlance.
Ward (castle) covers baileys and wards in general (inner, outer, middle, etc), whereas, having cleaned up the translation on this one, it is only about outer baileys. So Ward (castle) is the parent article of this one and there should at least one other child called "inner bailey" (which I can create or translate from German Wiki). --
Bermicourt (
talk)
20:41, 4 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Conditional support of move to
Outer bailey on condition that
Ward (castle) is moved to
Bailey (castle). I think that this should move as part of a package. The second move may even be able to go as a manual move or non-controversial move following this request. Otherwise support move to Outer ward which generally seems to be a less preferable option but which would at least provide consistency.
Gregkaye✍♪16:11, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Greg, you're right, it would be good to have consistency - either "ward" or "bailey". The literature uses them interchangeably so we could go with either. I slightly favour bailey because we talk about motte and bailey castles, not motte and ward castles. Also I just sense that "ward" has more alternative uses and may be a bit more confusing. Maybe we can sort that out as a follow-on step. --
Bermicourt (
talk)
19:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Support, per the above; the subject is specifically outer bailey's, matching the article we have on inner bailey's. As an aside, though, does the article lack a worldview? It isn't just German castles that have inner and outer baileys (
vizthesethree); they were a pretty standard arrangement throughout the Middle Ages.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
15:38, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
You're right, Moonraker. These are largely translated from German Wikipedia, so are central-Europe-centric (!). I will look to expanding them with more generic information, such as the examples you mention, as I'm sure will other interested editors. --
Bermicourt (
talk)
17:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Good question, Greg. Firstly, a ward and a bailey are the same thing in castle parlance.
Ward (castle) covers baileys and wards in general (inner, outer, middle, etc), whereas, having cleaned up the translation on this one, it is only about outer baileys. So Ward (castle) is the parent article of this one and there should at least one other child called "inner bailey" (which I can create or translate from German Wiki). --
Bermicourt (
talk)
20:41, 4 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Conditional support of move to
Outer bailey on condition that
Ward (castle) is moved to
Bailey (castle). I think that this should move as part of a package. The second move may even be able to go as a manual move or non-controversial move following this request. Otherwise support move to Outer ward which generally seems to be a less preferable option but which would at least provide consistency.
Gregkaye✍♪16:11, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Greg, you're right, it would be good to have consistency - either "ward" or "bailey". The literature uses them interchangeably so we could go with either. I slightly favour bailey because we talk about motte and bailey castles, not motte and ward castles. Also I just sense that "ward" has more alternative uses and may be a bit more confusing. Maybe we can sort that out as a follow-on step. --
Bermicourt (
talk)
19:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Support, per the above; the subject is specifically outer bailey's, matching the article we have on inner bailey's. As an aside, though, does the article lack a worldview? It isn't just German castles that have inner and outer baileys (
vizthesethree); they were a pretty standard arrangement throughout the Middle Ages.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
15:38, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
You're right, Moonraker. These are largely translated from German Wikipedia, so are central-Europe-centric (!). I will look to expanding them with more generic information, such as the examples you mention, as I'm sure will other interested editors. --
Bermicourt (
talk)
17:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.