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I've broken up the existing text with a series of subheadings, to create some structure. More is needed on Wilde's family, his homosexual relationships, and his literary works, considered both within the circumstances of his life, as well as in the larger context which he occupies as a major literary figure. -- The Anome 13:43, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
:I hope to add more on his early life and family and a more complete bibliography. Filiocht 15:46, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
So did we crib without credit from [1], or did they crib without credit from us? Or did both use a common source? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:55, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Filiocht, I notice you removed all the links from the bibliography. Yes, these works are referenced in the article, but it seems to me a convenience for anyone trying to find one of Wilde's works to get a set of links from the bibliography. Do you have any actual objection to this? -- Jmabel | Talk 02:29, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
Could someone who is in Paris take a photo of Wilde's tomb? It's rather impressive. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:32, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
I've heard that Wilde was an anarchist. Did he ever write anything political, or does anyone know more about his ideas in this regard? -- Tothebarricades.tk 01:46, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It may seem wilful to lead a selection of Oscar Wilde's major critical prose with an essay on left-wing politics, but 'The Soul of Man under Socialism' is more concerned with aesthetics than ethics: Wilde found socialism 'beautiful' because it encouraged freedom and individualism, freeing man to develop his emotional and imaginative lives. Wilde's Utopian scheme, as he admits, is gloriously impractical and contrary to human nature, but that's the point - it's because reforms are based on what is considered practical, rather than what might be possible or even unthinkable, that inequality and suffering persist. His vision of a future in which men dream and absorb Art as vaguely-imagined machines do all the menial work, reads like a delightful lampoon of HG Wells. Favourite Quotations: 'the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist and becomes a dull or amusing craftsman, an honest or dishonest tradesman' "Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known.").-- Stratofortress 15:47, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
'I think I am rather more than a Socialist. I am something of an Anarchist, I believe,' -Oscar Wilde. "He aslo[sic] took up the case of possibly the most famous political prisoners of his era. Along with George Bernard Shaw, he signed a petition for the release of the Haymarket martyrs (anarchist trade unionists executed for their role in the 8- hour day movement)." [2]
I reverted the following recent anonymous change pending a citation "He went under the assumed name of 'Sebastian Melmoth', after Saint Sebastian: "The Cursed Wanderer," as well as the central character of the gothic novel Melmoth the Wanderer." The bolded portion was inserted; I reverted it. If there is any basis for it, it probably should be in the article, but it would be news to me, and on the basis of what I see this seems just as likely to be vandalism as a useful edit. Google search on "Saint Sebastian" + "The Cursed Wanderer" produces nothing. Got a citation? Great, then I'll be glad to see it restored. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:44, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
afaik, Bosie wasn't just Wilde's nickname for him, but a general nickname? -- little Alex 14:46, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
The article say his last words are often given as "My wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One or other of us has got to go." That is a rather clumsy version of what I've heard: "Either that wallpaper goes or I do." Is there a citation for either version? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:46, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
On his deathbed, he was cured of his gayness by a priest. He knew he had to choose to not be gay to get into heaven. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:14, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
The terms "gay" and "homosexual" both have the same meanings in the dictionary. A man who has sex with another man. However the term "homosexual" is clearly marked as offensive. I mean if we were saying he was carrying around a rainbow flag I could see the problem. And it was clear he was involved in the "homosexual" sub-culture therefor the term "gay" is better because "homosexual" is usually reserved for sexual aspects. Apollomelos 01:12, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I would dispute the assertion made above that "gay" is a purely cultural term. Not only is it the more neutral term to describe a homosexual it is also the more common term. It's usage in this page is not anachronistic - this is a contemporary encyclopaedia. We do not, for example, write the pages on Medieval history in Middle English, for example. -- Axon 09:31, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
In Wilde's case the term "gay" is both anachronistic and misleading; "gay" not only implies some sort of politics and specific identity, it only came into common use fairly recently. On the other hand, "homosexual" is both potentially offensive and probably not strictly correct in Wilde's case. Both "gay" and "homosexual" suggest and imply exclusivity of attraction; Wilde was married to a woman with whom he had several children. By all accounts he was in love with her and was much distressed to lose her. If anything, a good case could be made (indeed, such a case has been made) for Wilde being bisexual, but that term wouldn't be strictly satisfactory either. Let's focus on what the man did rather than what we think he was. Exploding Boy 22:42, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
Without going into detail about "politics," if we can provide specific information about Wilde's sexual partners, so much the better for the article. But we don't need to state categorically that he was "this" or "that." Exploding Boy 02:29, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
"Homosexual" is offensive? I've never heard of it. It's true that "gay" is used by several self-lobbying group, but it doesn't mean one or the other is offensive. Mandel July 6, 2005 19:26 (UTC)
1998, making it not exactly old, but serves me quite well. Mandel July 9, 2005 10:22 (UTC)
I find it important to note that, although several people have talked about how homosexual is marked as offensive in "the dictionary", nobody has cited any actual dictionary. Until someone does, I see no reason to believe these claims. A summary of the sources I have checked:
Based on this I see no problem at all with using "homosexual" in this article. EldKatt ( Talk) 15:09, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
2005 (UTC)
83.216.149.24 00:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The first picture of Wilde, the one directly opposite the table of contents, looks horribly distorted. Is this purposeful, i.e. to conform to screen limits, or accidental? It had previously been in a more proportional form. Wally 02:40, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have reverted the text about the 2004 play because it seems much more credible the way that it was. Often something like that increases ticket sales, and wouldn't Wiki need better sources to explain that kind of censorship in the U.K. MarnetteD | Talk 19:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Diversions and Delights was written by John Gay who was born in 1924. I have used the roman numerals in parentheses to delineate him from the English poet and playwright of the 1700's. I did not find any discussion of how to do this in the help pages, but if I have done this in a way that Wikipedia does not endorse I hope that the editors for the Oscar Wilde page will feel free to change it. MarnetteD | Talk 19:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Bold text
Doing some research on oscar wilde, i just found this interesting article, http://www.struggle.ws/ws98/ws53_wilde.html
It also provides a link to Wilde's essay on socialism ( http://www.struggle.ws/hist_texts/wilde_soul.html)
Oscar Wilde's socialism
Yet all is well; he has but passed To Life's appointed bourne: And alien tears will fill for him Pity's long broken urn For his mourners be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn.
Paris has had its fair share of famous people die in it. Most of them have ended up in the Pere La Chaise cemetery and Oscar Wilde is one of them. Of all the people buried there, that was the one grave I had to see when I entered that cemetery on a brisk March morning. I admire him because he was the master of that Irish pastime of extracting the Michael.
He was at first lauded by a society which would later reject him; as much for what he believed as for what he did. He believed his mourners would be outcasts because he never felt part of a society that holds homophobia as an attribute rather than what it really is, a disease.
"I think I am rather more than a Socialist. I am something of an Anarchist, I believe..."
Oscar Wilde was also inspired by politics. He was not blind to the obvious early failings of modern day society. The poverty he wrote about over a century ago, in 'The soul of man under Socialism', exists on the streets of Dublin today. Throughout this winter I've walked to work past bodies huddled under blankets in St. Stephen's Green, wheezing with bronchitis in the frosty air.
Wilde wrote about the poor in relation to charity "the best amongst them are never grateful. They are ungrateful, discontented, disobedient and rebellious....Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly fed animal. He should decline to live like that, and should either steal or go on the rates which is considered a form of stealing".
Wilde was living in a time when an estimated 2 million people were living in poverty in London. The solution would come under socialism, where property would be converted from private into public wealth and society would be restored to "its proper condition of a thoroughly healthy organism, and insure the well-being of each member of the community." In the meantime for the poor "why should they be grateful with the crumbs that fall from the rich man's table?"
"If the socialism is authoritarian; if there are governments armed with economic power as they are now with political power; if in a word, we are to have industrial tyrannies, then the last state of man will be worse than the first."
Wilde was certain of what kind of future he wanted for humanity. As the quote above indicates he did not wish to see an industrial tyranny rise in the name of Socialism. "All modes of Government are failures", he maintained, while social democracy is "the bludgeoning of people by the people for the people". His main obsession was with what he termed "individualism". I think it's fair to interpret this as a will for freedom. "Socialism itself will be of value because it will lead to individualism."
He opposed the locking up of people because they had committed crimes against property, arguing "a community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment rather than the occasional occurrence of crime".
He aslo took up the case of possibly the most famous political prisoners of his era. Along with George Bernard Shaw, he signed a petition for the release of the Haymarket martyrs (anarchist trade unionists executed for their role in the 8- hour day movement). He saw through the lies and the rail-roading they were receiving in that court in Chicago.
"A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not even worth glancing at."
Wilde lived his life never once renouncing his beliefs or his choices. His politics have been hidden over the years since he died in 1900. He wrote his essay on 'The Soul of Man under Socialism' over one hundred years ago, yet the ideas expressed are still vitally relevant. He expressed the idea that we all exist and only some of us really live. Some of us live because we're pushing for a different world to the one that surrounds us. Read him and remember "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue."
by Dermot Sreenan
Can some of this content/topic be added?
-- Black Dagger 05:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
A more direct quote demonstrating his dislike of States/Laws, and sympathy(at least) of Anarchism, is the following
I know not whether Laws be Right Or whether Laws be Wrong... But this I know, that every Law Which men have made for Man Since first Man took his brother's life And the sad world began But straws the wheat and saves the chaff With a most Evil fan
I'd say being that critical of laws would hint strong approval for Anarchism, in the least....
Right now, one of the captions says, "Affectionally (though informally) known as 'the Queer on his Rear' or 'the Fag on the Crag'". I assume this is true; I'm not sure whether it belongs in the article. Opinions sought. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:16, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
I have a photo I took in 2002 of Wilde's tomb somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Here is one I did find:
An anon recently added this; I took a shot at editing it, but I don't know the piece. My sole reference was [5] (accessed 26 July 2005), which looks probably solid. If anyone can do better, great. Sounds like it deserves an article of its own: note the remark there about dispute over authorship. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:45, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
On what basis is Wilde included in the category "Christian writers"? He made a deathbed conversion to Roman Catholicism; other than that, I've never heard of him being a practicing Christian. Is there something I'm unaware of, or is this category so broad as to include every writer born into a nominally Christian background (in which case it seems a useless category, probably worthy of deletion). -- Jmabel | Talk 05:50, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
Wilde was not mearly a deathbed convert. Catholicism had held a stong emotional pull on him from an early age. He attended Masses thoughout his life and attended audiences with two Popes (Pius IX and Leo XIII). After he was released from prison, he requested a six month spiritual retreat with the Jesuits, but was refused.
Also consider the Christian nature of some of his Childrens' stories. The Fisherman and his Soul, The Selfish Giant, and The Young King all contain overt christian themes. Iron Ghost 10:54, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
The criteria I used were that Wilde was a Christian, and that he wrote on Christian themes. Considering the category, these seem like pretty good criteria to me. If you still think this is rather thin then I invite you to familiarise yourself with Wilde's poetry, which should leave you in no doubt as to his religious position. Iron Ghost 22:38, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
This is impossible to verify, I think, but an interesting point, anyway - arguably, Wilde at least supervised / assisted with the publication of this pornographic novel in 1893 - although it is clearly the work of several writers. As is also apparent in Dorian Gray, Wilde appears to nurture a synergy between homosociality and the aesthetics of violence (by homosocial I mean the full spectrum of male relations, not only homosexuality). Can this be reconciled with his socialism? And, if we assume this synergy exists, can it be read as part of a wider literary canon inclusive of indebted authors like Saki?-- RowanM 11:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
The article says currently: "Although Wilde later claimed to have told the customs officer "I have nothing to declare except my genius", historians and biographers have concluded that this is an embellishment of Wilde's as there is no contemporary evidence that this occurred."
This is not as I've heard the story. I understood the first known occurrence of the "quote" was in a publication by (??) Frank Harris, not only many years after it was supposed to have been uttered, but after Wilde's own death. If this is so, then Wilde could never have claimed to have said it. Is there any documentary evidence that the "quote" was extant in Wilde's lifetime? JackofOz 22:32, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
It should be noted that Lord Alfred Douglas was over 18 when his affair with Wilde began. Therefore, Wilde cannot be a pederastic lover. CaveatLector 02:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Paederasty has specific implications, namely a (usually socially sanctioned) relationship characterized by a significant difference in age and status (with one partner being recognized as an adult, and the other as a child or a youth), with some sort of paedagogical element. I don't think the shoe fits here. Exploding Boy 03:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I will not change the catagory back quite yet, but I agree with Exploding boy and ntennis that this catagory probably does not fit here. Why is 18 the cutoff age? How close to 18 was Ross when the affair happened? Why would that even matter? It seems rather willy-nilly to brand Wilde with this catagory on something that amounts to a techincality, doesn't it? The entire catagory seems dubious, considering the fact that Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar (niether of them attested pederasts in any sense) are on the list yet Socrates (rather famous for pederasty, as were all the Greek aristocracy of his era) is left off. I think I'll consider renominating this catagory for deletion. CaveatLector 07:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
This paragraph may be misleading, since Ross seems to claim not that he was the first male that Wilde had had relations with, but the first "boy". Perhaps we do not have to place McKenna in contraposition to the previous material, I see no conflict there. Later, Ross boasted to Lord Alfred Douglas that he was "the first boy Oscar ever had" and there seems to have been much jealousy between them. However, Neil McKenna's more recent biography, The Secret Life of Oscar Wilde (2003), demonstrates convincingly that Wilde was aware of his homosexuality from the moment of his first kiss with another boy at age 16, and had in fact lived with male lover Frank Miles (two years his senior) for several years before his marriage in 1884. Haiduc 12:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
According to the Center Theatre Group's Performances program for February 2006 that was available at the run of "The Importance of Being Ernest" at the Ahmanson Theatre this year, "Solitary confinement in Reading gaol and eight hours a day on the treadmill soon destroyed Wilde."
Perhaps some elaboration of what Wilde endured in gaol is appropriate for this article? Or a reference to what the British government considered normal gaol conditions at that time? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.233.130 ( talk • contribs) 8 March 2006.
Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry
please do not add this to the article, and please read the incident report before giving the go-ahead. This is spam and not link-worthy under WP:EL; the articles contain many distortions, lack citations, and contain nothing that wouldn't fit directly in the wiki article. a link to worldofbiography has been placed on over 70 talk pages by User:Jameswatt. thanks. -- He: ah? 20:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
@Dbiv: I only restored original content that had been removed without explanation in the edit summary or on the talk page. I am the author of it. Daniel Šebesta ( talk • contribs) 12:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone really see the point of having this section? If we keep reverting Uncyclopedia, why do we allow equally meaningless and irrelevant stuff here? I like the Monty python sketch, but it is not really relevant to Wilde. Dabbler 03:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the article. It serves no encycloedic function. Funny though it is, very few people know about Uncyclopedia, so because it is directly related to Wilde it is mentioned as an external link. So let this die. Tyler 15:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been bold: References to Oscar Wilde in popular culture. I could only think of one category ( Category:Popular culture); I'm sure it deserves others. - Jmabel | Talk 05:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The article refers to A Woman of No Importance as a comedy. While it is in a way, it is also heavy in social commentary and all that drama stuff (sorry, tired, can't write tonight). Perhaps it is worth mentioning that it was not so light as plays such as The Importance of Being Ernest? Russia Moore 06:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I can't seem to find the "Why bother? I know I've got a first" quote being attributed to Oscar Wilde on site but Wikipedia. Also, the wording in "Marriage and Family" make it seem as if Florence Balcome became engaged to Bram Stoker AS A RESULT of Oscar falling in love with her. I find that hard to be true. Shiranweber 31 Dec 2005
Is it worth including a sub-heading on Wilde's activities as a freemason, rather than just a passing reference in the introduction - I'm prepared to start this section. Escaper7 13:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I've broken up the existing text with a series of subheadings, to create some structure. More is needed on Wilde's family, his homosexual relationships, and his literary works, considered both within the circumstances of his life, as well as in the larger context which he occupies as a major literary figure. -- The Anome 13:43, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
:I hope to add more on his early life and family and a more complete bibliography. Filiocht 15:46, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
So did we crib without credit from [1], or did they crib without credit from us? Or did both use a common source? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:55, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Filiocht, I notice you removed all the links from the bibliography. Yes, these works are referenced in the article, but it seems to me a convenience for anyone trying to find one of Wilde's works to get a set of links from the bibliography. Do you have any actual objection to this? -- Jmabel | Talk 02:29, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
Could someone who is in Paris take a photo of Wilde's tomb? It's rather impressive. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:32, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
I've heard that Wilde was an anarchist. Did he ever write anything political, or does anyone know more about his ideas in this regard? -- Tothebarricades.tk 01:46, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It may seem wilful to lead a selection of Oscar Wilde's major critical prose with an essay on left-wing politics, but 'The Soul of Man under Socialism' is more concerned with aesthetics than ethics: Wilde found socialism 'beautiful' because it encouraged freedom and individualism, freeing man to develop his emotional and imaginative lives. Wilde's Utopian scheme, as he admits, is gloriously impractical and contrary to human nature, but that's the point - it's because reforms are based on what is considered practical, rather than what might be possible or even unthinkable, that inequality and suffering persist. His vision of a future in which men dream and absorb Art as vaguely-imagined machines do all the menial work, reads like a delightful lampoon of HG Wells. Favourite Quotations: 'the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist and becomes a dull or amusing craftsman, an honest or dishonest tradesman' "Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known.").-- Stratofortress 15:47, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
'I think I am rather more than a Socialist. I am something of an Anarchist, I believe,' -Oscar Wilde. "He aslo[sic] took up the case of possibly the most famous political prisoners of his era. Along with George Bernard Shaw, he signed a petition for the release of the Haymarket martyrs (anarchist trade unionists executed for their role in the 8- hour day movement)." [2]
I reverted the following recent anonymous change pending a citation "He went under the assumed name of 'Sebastian Melmoth', after Saint Sebastian: "The Cursed Wanderer," as well as the central character of the gothic novel Melmoth the Wanderer." The bolded portion was inserted; I reverted it. If there is any basis for it, it probably should be in the article, but it would be news to me, and on the basis of what I see this seems just as likely to be vandalism as a useful edit. Google search on "Saint Sebastian" + "The Cursed Wanderer" produces nothing. Got a citation? Great, then I'll be glad to see it restored. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:44, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
afaik, Bosie wasn't just Wilde's nickname for him, but a general nickname? -- little Alex 14:46, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
The article say his last words are often given as "My wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One or other of us has got to go." That is a rather clumsy version of what I've heard: "Either that wallpaper goes or I do." Is there a citation for either version? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:46, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
On his deathbed, he was cured of his gayness by a priest. He knew he had to choose to not be gay to get into heaven. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:14, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
The terms "gay" and "homosexual" both have the same meanings in the dictionary. A man who has sex with another man. However the term "homosexual" is clearly marked as offensive. I mean if we were saying he was carrying around a rainbow flag I could see the problem. And it was clear he was involved in the "homosexual" sub-culture therefor the term "gay" is better because "homosexual" is usually reserved for sexual aspects. Apollomelos 01:12, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I would dispute the assertion made above that "gay" is a purely cultural term. Not only is it the more neutral term to describe a homosexual it is also the more common term. It's usage in this page is not anachronistic - this is a contemporary encyclopaedia. We do not, for example, write the pages on Medieval history in Middle English, for example. -- Axon 09:31, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
In Wilde's case the term "gay" is both anachronistic and misleading; "gay" not only implies some sort of politics and specific identity, it only came into common use fairly recently. On the other hand, "homosexual" is both potentially offensive and probably not strictly correct in Wilde's case. Both "gay" and "homosexual" suggest and imply exclusivity of attraction; Wilde was married to a woman with whom he had several children. By all accounts he was in love with her and was much distressed to lose her. If anything, a good case could be made (indeed, such a case has been made) for Wilde being bisexual, but that term wouldn't be strictly satisfactory either. Let's focus on what the man did rather than what we think he was. Exploding Boy 22:42, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
Without going into detail about "politics," if we can provide specific information about Wilde's sexual partners, so much the better for the article. But we don't need to state categorically that he was "this" or "that." Exploding Boy 02:29, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
"Homosexual" is offensive? I've never heard of it. It's true that "gay" is used by several self-lobbying group, but it doesn't mean one or the other is offensive. Mandel July 6, 2005 19:26 (UTC)
1998, making it not exactly old, but serves me quite well. Mandel July 9, 2005 10:22 (UTC)
I find it important to note that, although several people have talked about how homosexual is marked as offensive in "the dictionary", nobody has cited any actual dictionary. Until someone does, I see no reason to believe these claims. A summary of the sources I have checked:
Based on this I see no problem at all with using "homosexual" in this article. EldKatt ( Talk) 15:09, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
2005 (UTC)
83.216.149.24 00:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The first picture of Wilde, the one directly opposite the table of contents, looks horribly distorted. Is this purposeful, i.e. to conform to screen limits, or accidental? It had previously been in a more proportional form. Wally 02:40, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have reverted the text about the 2004 play because it seems much more credible the way that it was. Often something like that increases ticket sales, and wouldn't Wiki need better sources to explain that kind of censorship in the U.K. MarnetteD | Talk 19:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Diversions and Delights was written by John Gay who was born in 1924. I have used the roman numerals in parentheses to delineate him from the English poet and playwright of the 1700's. I did not find any discussion of how to do this in the help pages, but if I have done this in a way that Wikipedia does not endorse I hope that the editors for the Oscar Wilde page will feel free to change it. MarnetteD | Talk 19:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Bold text
Doing some research on oscar wilde, i just found this interesting article, http://www.struggle.ws/ws98/ws53_wilde.html
It also provides a link to Wilde's essay on socialism ( http://www.struggle.ws/hist_texts/wilde_soul.html)
Oscar Wilde's socialism
Yet all is well; he has but passed To Life's appointed bourne: And alien tears will fill for him Pity's long broken urn For his mourners be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn.
Paris has had its fair share of famous people die in it. Most of them have ended up in the Pere La Chaise cemetery and Oscar Wilde is one of them. Of all the people buried there, that was the one grave I had to see when I entered that cemetery on a brisk March morning. I admire him because he was the master of that Irish pastime of extracting the Michael.
He was at first lauded by a society which would later reject him; as much for what he believed as for what he did. He believed his mourners would be outcasts because he never felt part of a society that holds homophobia as an attribute rather than what it really is, a disease.
"I think I am rather more than a Socialist. I am something of an Anarchist, I believe..."
Oscar Wilde was also inspired by politics. He was not blind to the obvious early failings of modern day society. The poverty he wrote about over a century ago, in 'The soul of man under Socialism', exists on the streets of Dublin today. Throughout this winter I've walked to work past bodies huddled under blankets in St. Stephen's Green, wheezing with bronchitis in the frosty air.
Wilde wrote about the poor in relation to charity "the best amongst them are never grateful. They are ungrateful, discontented, disobedient and rebellious....Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly fed animal. He should decline to live like that, and should either steal or go on the rates which is considered a form of stealing".
Wilde was living in a time when an estimated 2 million people were living in poverty in London. The solution would come under socialism, where property would be converted from private into public wealth and society would be restored to "its proper condition of a thoroughly healthy organism, and insure the well-being of each member of the community." In the meantime for the poor "why should they be grateful with the crumbs that fall from the rich man's table?"
"If the socialism is authoritarian; if there are governments armed with economic power as they are now with political power; if in a word, we are to have industrial tyrannies, then the last state of man will be worse than the first."
Wilde was certain of what kind of future he wanted for humanity. As the quote above indicates he did not wish to see an industrial tyranny rise in the name of Socialism. "All modes of Government are failures", he maintained, while social democracy is "the bludgeoning of people by the people for the people". His main obsession was with what he termed "individualism". I think it's fair to interpret this as a will for freedom. "Socialism itself will be of value because it will lead to individualism."
He opposed the locking up of people because they had committed crimes against property, arguing "a community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment rather than the occasional occurrence of crime".
He aslo took up the case of possibly the most famous political prisoners of his era. Along with George Bernard Shaw, he signed a petition for the release of the Haymarket martyrs (anarchist trade unionists executed for their role in the 8- hour day movement). He saw through the lies and the rail-roading they were receiving in that court in Chicago.
"A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not even worth glancing at."
Wilde lived his life never once renouncing his beliefs or his choices. His politics have been hidden over the years since he died in 1900. He wrote his essay on 'The Soul of Man under Socialism' over one hundred years ago, yet the ideas expressed are still vitally relevant. He expressed the idea that we all exist and only some of us really live. Some of us live because we're pushing for a different world to the one that surrounds us. Read him and remember "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue."
by Dermot Sreenan
Can some of this content/topic be added?
-- Black Dagger 05:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
A more direct quote demonstrating his dislike of States/Laws, and sympathy(at least) of Anarchism, is the following
I know not whether Laws be Right Or whether Laws be Wrong... But this I know, that every Law Which men have made for Man Since first Man took his brother's life And the sad world began But straws the wheat and saves the chaff With a most Evil fan
I'd say being that critical of laws would hint strong approval for Anarchism, in the least....
Right now, one of the captions says, "Affectionally (though informally) known as 'the Queer on his Rear' or 'the Fag on the Crag'". I assume this is true; I'm not sure whether it belongs in the article. Opinions sought. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:16, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
I have a photo I took in 2002 of Wilde's tomb somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Here is one I did find:
An anon recently added this; I took a shot at editing it, but I don't know the piece. My sole reference was [5] (accessed 26 July 2005), which looks probably solid. If anyone can do better, great. Sounds like it deserves an article of its own: note the remark there about dispute over authorship. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:45, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
On what basis is Wilde included in the category "Christian writers"? He made a deathbed conversion to Roman Catholicism; other than that, I've never heard of him being a practicing Christian. Is there something I'm unaware of, or is this category so broad as to include every writer born into a nominally Christian background (in which case it seems a useless category, probably worthy of deletion). -- Jmabel | Talk 05:50, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
Wilde was not mearly a deathbed convert. Catholicism had held a stong emotional pull on him from an early age. He attended Masses thoughout his life and attended audiences with two Popes (Pius IX and Leo XIII). After he was released from prison, he requested a six month spiritual retreat with the Jesuits, but was refused.
Also consider the Christian nature of some of his Childrens' stories. The Fisherman and his Soul, The Selfish Giant, and The Young King all contain overt christian themes. Iron Ghost 10:54, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
The criteria I used were that Wilde was a Christian, and that he wrote on Christian themes. Considering the category, these seem like pretty good criteria to me. If you still think this is rather thin then I invite you to familiarise yourself with Wilde's poetry, which should leave you in no doubt as to his religious position. Iron Ghost 22:38, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
This is impossible to verify, I think, but an interesting point, anyway - arguably, Wilde at least supervised / assisted with the publication of this pornographic novel in 1893 - although it is clearly the work of several writers. As is also apparent in Dorian Gray, Wilde appears to nurture a synergy between homosociality and the aesthetics of violence (by homosocial I mean the full spectrum of male relations, not only homosexuality). Can this be reconciled with his socialism? And, if we assume this synergy exists, can it be read as part of a wider literary canon inclusive of indebted authors like Saki?-- RowanM 11:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
The article says currently: "Although Wilde later claimed to have told the customs officer "I have nothing to declare except my genius", historians and biographers have concluded that this is an embellishment of Wilde's as there is no contemporary evidence that this occurred."
This is not as I've heard the story. I understood the first known occurrence of the "quote" was in a publication by (??) Frank Harris, not only many years after it was supposed to have been uttered, but after Wilde's own death. If this is so, then Wilde could never have claimed to have said it. Is there any documentary evidence that the "quote" was extant in Wilde's lifetime? JackofOz 22:32, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
It should be noted that Lord Alfred Douglas was over 18 when his affair with Wilde began. Therefore, Wilde cannot be a pederastic lover. CaveatLector 02:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Paederasty has specific implications, namely a (usually socially sanctioned) relationship characterized by a significant difference in age and status (with one partner being recognized as an adult, and the other as a child or a youth), with some sort of paedagogical element. I don't think the shoe fits here. Exploding Boy 03:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I will not change the catagory back quite yet, but I agree with Exploding boy and ntennis that this catagory probably does not fit here. Why is 18 the cutoff age? How close to 18 was Ross when the affair happened? Why would that even matter? It seems rather willy-nilly to brand Wilde with this catagory on something that amounts to a techincality, doesn't it? The entire catagory seems dubious, considering the fact that Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar (niether of them attested pederasts in any sense) are on the list yet Socrates (rather famous for pederasty, as were all the Greek aristocracy of his era) is left off. I think I'll consider renominating this catagory for deletion. CaveatLector 07:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
This paragraph may be misleading, since Ross seems to claim not that he was the first male that Wilde had had relations with, but the first "boy". Perhaps we do not have to place McKenna in contraposition to the previous material, I see no conflict there. Later, Ross boasted to Lord Alfred Douglas that he was "the first boy Oscar ever had" and there seems to have been much jealousy between them. However, Neil McKenna's more recent biography, The Secret Life of Oscar Wilde (2003), demonstrates convincingly that Wilde was aware of his homosexuality from the moment of his first kiss with another boy at age 16, and had in fact lived with male lover Frank Miles (two years his senior) for several years before his marriage in 1884. Haiduc 12:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
According to the Center Theatre Group's Performances program for February 2006 that was available at the run of "The Importance of Being Ernest" at the Ahmanson Theatre this year, "Solitary confinement in Reading gaol and eight hours a day on the treadmill soon destroyed Wilde."
Perhaps some elaboration of what Wilde endured in gaol is appropriate for this article? Or a reference to what the British government considered normal gaol conditions at that time? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.233.130 ( talk • contribs) 8 March 2006.
Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry
please do not add this to the article, and please read the incident report before giving the go-ahead. This is spam and not link-worthy under WP:EL; the articles contain many distortions, lack citations, and contain nothing that wouldn't fit directly in the wiki article. a link to worldofbiography has been placed on over 70 talk pages by User:Jameswatt. thanks. -- He: ah? 20:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
@Dbiv: I only restored original content that had been removed without explanation in the edit summary or on the talk page. I am the author of it. Daniel Šebesta ( talk • contribs) 12:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone really see the point of having this section? If we keep reverting Uncyclopedia, why do we allow equally meaningless and irrelevant stuff here? I like the Monty python sketch, but it is not really relevant to Wilde. Dabbler 03:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the article. It serves no encycloedic function. Funny though it is, very few people know about Uncyclopedia, so because it is directly related to Wilde it is mentioned as an external link. So let this die. Tyler 15:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been bold: References to Oscar Wilde in popular culture. I could only think of one category ( Category:Popular culture); I'm sure it deserves others. - Jmabel | Talk 05:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The article refers to A Woman of No Importance as a comedy. While it is in a way, it is also heavy in social commentary and all that drama stuff (sorry, tired, can't write tonight). Perhaps it is worth mentioning that it was not so light as plays such as The Importance of Being Ernest? Russia Moore 06:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I can't seem to find the "Why bother? I know I've got a first" quote being attributed to Oscar Wilde on site but Wikipedia. Also, the wording in "Marriage and Family" make it seem as if Florence Balcome became engaged to Bram Stoker AS A RESULT of Oscar falling in love with her. I find that hard to be true. Shiranweber 31 Dec 2005
Is it worth including a sub-heading on Wilde's activities as a freemason, rather than just a passing reference in the introduction - I'm prepared to start this section. Escaper7 13:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)