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I'd like to see some citation for the claim that Italian vita is related to this. I have no knowledge of any connection between vita and veal. -- (Unsigned)
I've removed the reference, I could find no other reference to this on the Web, and the article for Italy states that the etymology for that word is very uncertain:
"The name appears to be a Greek form of Latin Vitelia, related to the Latin vitulus and Greek ἰταλός 'calf', but nature of the relationship is obscure: see Italus."
-- Archfalhwyl 16:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Example of an Oscan text ? why is it written using english style letters can we have the actual example in its original alphabet
I'm not an expert in the Italic languages, but I think the last sentence in this paragraph may be mistaken, or at least misleading:
Oscan had much in common with Latin, though there are also many striking differences, and many common word-groups in Latin were absent and represented by entirely different forms. For example, Latin volo, velle, volui, and other such forms from the Proto-Indo-European root *wel ('to will') were represented by words derived from *gher ('to desire'): Oscan herest ('he wants, desires') as opposed to Latin vult (id.). Latin locus (place) was absent and represented by slaagid (place).
Isn't Oscan slaagid (ablative), slagím (accusative) cognate with Latin locus? The Latin word appears earlier as stlocus, and I gather that Indo-European *sl was preserved in Oscan but regularly changed to *stl in many Indo-European languages spoken in the Mediterranean area, including Latin. Compare the Oscan proper name Slabiis with Latin Stlabius, later Labius. See Phelps (1937) "Indo-European Initial sl", Language 13:4, pp. 279-284. --Dependent Variable.
I wonder whether Oscan "herest" is really related to spanish "quiere". "Quiere" obviously descends from Latin "quaerit". Latin initial /kw/ corresponds to Oscan /p/, so, if Oscan had a cognate of "quaerit", it should have been *pairit or *pairet or something, certainly NOT "herest". -- Pail ( talk) 23:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
"don't combine autogenerated notes with asterisked bibiography [
sic] items"
The combining of those two does happen to be totally standard, although I personally prefer that addition of the second heading.
Cheers,
Varlaam (
talk) 15:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
First things first. We are using the SIL classification in these language articles and I dare say that is not a bad, though not the only possible, choice. We list the SIL standard in the box. Therefore I think we are justified is presenting that classification as our standard classification and not getting it mixed up with other opinions and classifications. So, I'm going to change it to be that way. If you want something different, I don't think we should ignore that possibility. I do think we should identify it as a variant and give the source for the variant. Thanks. Dave ( talk) 03:09, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
"Dialects of Oscan include Samnite, Marrucine, Paelignan, Vestinian, Sabine, and Marsian."
This sentences mixes up Oscan and Umbrian dialects. I'm following the SIL. Dave ( talk) 09:25, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I've simplified the lead to make it understandable to the average Wikipedia reader. I'm sure SIL international standards etc. are important for language classification but they should not be mentioned in the very first sentence of the article. The lead of an article should be in clear, comprehensible layman's English with no jargon or shibbolethic references per the manual of style. Also, "Corpus" is not a word the average reader is going to immediately understand (the average reader is going to think "dead body", not "body of evidence"), and the manual of style does warn against unnecessary jargon - "Evidence" is a better choice for a top level header. -- NellieBly ( talk) 00:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
This needs pictures for the letters, my computer is rendering the current representation as squares, so I don't have the font required. -- 65.94.79.6 ( talk) 21:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
A Latin translation would really be welcome! Nobody ever had that idea?
--and would it kill the original poster to include an English translation? Or is this page only for cognoscenti? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pablo.paz ( talk • contribs) 06:54, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Nuremberg / Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 00:29, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I edited the page tonight. I added references to stuff that I probably originally put in some years ago. The alphabet was not showing. I also don't know where I got it from - probably another page on Wikipedia. I removed it. I also removed the picture of heta and the refence to it in the text. It did look like heta, but did Buck mention heta specifically in his text? Should that be added back in? Habemus ( talk) 23:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
There were a lot of citations... Habemus ( talk) 23:29, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Read this and expand this article. https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft 108.18.136.147 ( talk) 12:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Didn't notice this injunction till now, but I've been in the process of doing both for a few days now! Please review my additions for errors, etc. Thanks Johundhar ( talk) 20:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Enjoy.
-- Agatino Catarella ( talk) 17:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Nice. Note that they also seem to use an Etruscan form of phi for 1000 (rather than the usual value of 500!). It's in the Bantina text. Johundhar ( talk) 20:39, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Florian Blaschke and Austronesier: could someone take a look at this? It looks a bit malformed/misleading to me. Firstly, is it really so impossible that this supposed Oscan slaagid is in fact cognate to locus after all (Latin locus is from IE *stl̥-ḱo- ...)? Secondly, even if not it seems bizarre to expect that a Latin word be "present" in a sister language rather than a daughter language, and weirder still to (if we accept that slaagid could not be cognate) assume it is "absent" rather than merely unattested given the fragmentary attestation... -- Calthinus ( talk) 16:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Please look it over for any errors, etc. From Buck. Johundhar ( talk) 03:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 12 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Minervascripps (
article contribs).
Here are some possible edits I'm thinking of adding to the article.
The Testament of Vibius Adiranus
In Oscan:
v(iíbis). aadirans. v(iíbieís). eítiuvam. paam vereiiaí. púmpaiianaí. trístaamentud. deded. eísak. eítiuvad v(iíbis). viínikiís. m(a)r(aheis).kvaísstur. púmpaiians. trííbúm. ekak. kúmbennieís. tanginud. úpsannam deded. ísídum. prúfatted
In English:
Vibius Adiranus, son of Vibius, gave in his will money to the Pompeian vereiia-. With this money, Vibius Vinicius, son of Maras, Pompeian quaestor, dedicated the construction of this building by decision of the senate, and the same man approved it. [1]
Adapted from the Etruscan alphabet, the Central Oscan alphabet was used to write Oscan in Campania and surrounding territories from the 4th century BCE until possibly the first century CE. [2]
From current article:
"A very strong piece of evidence is the presence of Oscan graffiti on walls of Pompeii that were reconstructed after the earthquake of CE 62, and must therefore have been written between CE 62 and 79." [3] [4]
Other scholars argue that this is not strong evidence for the survival of Oscan, given the disappearance of public inscriptions in Oscan after Roman colonization. [5] It is possible that both languages may have existed simultaneously under different conditions, in which Roman was given political, religious, and administrative importance while Oscan was considered a 'low' language. [6] This phenomenon is referred to as diglossia with bilingualism. [7] Some Oscan graffiti exists from the first century CE, but it is rare to find evidence from Italy of Latin-speaking Roman citizens representing themselves as having non-Latin-speaking ancestors. [8] Minervascripps ( talk) 22:37, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |doi=
value (
help)
The shape of the letters suggests that Oscan was written from right to left. Is this the case? One way or the other, it needs to be stated. Koro Neil ( talk) 21:12, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'd like to see some citation for the claim that Italian vita is related to this. I have no knowledge of any connection between vita and veal. -- (Unsigned)
I've removed the reference, I could find no other reference to this on the Web, and the article for Italy states that the etymology for that word is very uncertain:
"The name appears to be a Greek form of Latin Vitelia, related to the Latin vitulus and Greek ἰταλός 'calf', but nature of the relationship is obscure: see Italus."
-- Archfalhwyl 16:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Example of an Oscan text ? why is it written using english style letters can we have the actual example in its original alphabet
I'm not an expert in the Italic languages, but I think the last sentence in this paragraph may be mistaken, or at least misleading:
Oscan had much in common with Latin, though there are also many striking differences, and many common word-groups in Latin were absent and represented by entirely different forms. For example, Latin volo, velle, volui, and other such forms from the Proto-Indo-European root *wel ('to will') were represented by words derived from *gher ('to desire'): Oscan herest ('he wants, desires') as opposed to Latin vult (id.). Latin locus (place) was absent and represented by slaagid (place).
Isn't Oscan slaagid (ablative), slagím (accusative) cognate with Latin locus? The Latin word appears earlier as stlocus, and I gather that Indo-European *sl was preserved in Oscan but regularly changed to *stl in many Indo-European languages spoken in the Mediterranean area, including Latin. Compare the Oscan proper name Slabiis with Latin Stlabius, later Labius. See Phelps (1937) "Indo-European Initial sl", Language 13:4, pp. 279-284. --Dependent Variable.
I wonder whether Oscan "herest" is really related to spanish "quiere". "Quiere" obviously descends from Latin "quaerit". Latin initial /kw/ corresponds to Oscan /p/, so, if Oscan had a cognate of "quaerit", it should have been *pairit or *pairet or something, certainly NOT "herest". -- Pail ( talk) 23:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
"don't combine autogenerated notes with asterisked bibiography [
sic] items"
The combining of those two does happen to be totally standard, although I personally prefer that addition of the second heading.
Cheers,
Varlaam (
talk) 15:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
First things first. We are using the SIL classification in these language articles and I dare say that is not a bad, though not the only possible, choice. We list the SIL standard in the box. Therefore I think we are justified is presenting that classification as our standard classification and not getting it mixed up with other opinions and classifications. So, I'm going to change it to be that way. If you want something different, I don't think we should ignore that possibility. I do think we should identify it as a variant and give the source for the variant. Thanks. Dave ( talk) 03:09, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
"Dialects of Oscan include Samnite, Marrucine, Paelignan, Vestinian, Sabine, and Marsian."
This sentences mixes up Oscan and Umbrian dialects. I'm following the SIL. Dave ( talk) 09:25, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I've simplified the lead to make it understandable to the average Wikipedia reader. I'm sure SIL international standards etc. are important for language classification but they should not be mentioned in the very first sentence of the article. The lead of an article should be in clear, comprehensible layman's English with no jargon or shibbolethic references per the manual of style. Also, "Corpus" is not a word the average reader is going to immediately understand (the average reader is going to think "dead body", not "body of evidence"), and the manual of style does warn against unnecessary jargon - "Evidence" is a better choice for a top level header. -- NellieBly ( talk) 00:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
This needs pictures for the letters, my computer is rendering the current representation as squares, so I don't have the font required. -- 65.94.79.6 ( talk) 21:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
A Latin translation would really be welcome! Nobody ever had that idea?
--and would it kill the original poster to include an English translation? Or is this page only for cognoscenti? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pablo.paz ( talk • contribs) 06:54, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Nuremberg / Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 00:29, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I edited the page tonight. I added references to stuff that I probably originally put in some years ago. The alphabet was not showing. I also don't know where I got it from - probably another page on Wikipedia. I removed it. I also removed the picture of heta and the refence to it in the text. It did look like heta, but did Buck mention heta specifically in his text? Should that be added back in? Habemus ( talk) 23:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
There were a lot of citations... Habemus ( talk) 23:29, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Read this and expand this article. https://archive.org/details/grammarofoscanum00buckuoft 108.18.136.147 ( talk) 12:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Didn't notice this injunction till now, but I've been in the process of doing both for a few days now! Please review my additions for errors, etc. Thanks Johundhar ( talk) 20:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Enjoy.
-- Agatino Catarella ( talk) 17:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Nice. Note that they also seem to use an Etruscan form of phi for 1000 (rather than the usual value of 500!). It's in the Bantina text. Johundhar ( talk) 20:39, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Florian Blaschke and Austronesier: could someone take a look at this? It looks a bit malformed/misleading to me. Firstly, is it really so impossible that this supposed Oscan slaagid is in fact cognate to locus after all (Latin locus is from IE *stl̥-ḱo- ...)? Secondly, even if not it seems bizarre to expect that a Latin word be "present" in a sister language rather than a daughter language, and weirder still to (if we accept that slaagid could not be cognate) assume it is "absent" rather than merely unattested given the fragmentary attestation... -- Calthinus ( talk) 16:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Please look it over for any errors, etc. From Buck. Johundhar ( talk) 03:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 12 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Minervascripps (
article contribs).
Here are some possible edits I'm thinking of adding to the article.
The Testament of Vibius Adiranus
In Oscan:
v(iíbis). aadirans. v(iíbieís). eítiuvam. paam vereiiaí. púmpaiianaí. trístaamentud. deded. eísak. eítiuvad v(iíbis). viínikiís. m(a)r(aheis).kvaísstur. púmpaiians. trííbúm. ekak. kúmbennieís. tanginud. úpsannam deded. ísídum. prúfatted
In English:
Vibius Adiranus, son of Vibius, gave in his will money to the Pompeian vereiia-. With this money, Vibius Vinicius, son of Maras, Pompeian quaestor, dedicated the construction of this building by decision of the senate, and the same man approved it. [1]
Adapted from the Etruscan alphabet, the Central Oscan alphabet was used to write Oscan in Campania and surrounding territories from the 4th century BCE until possibly the first century CE. [2]
From current article:
"A very strong piece of evidence is the presence of Oscan graffiti on walls of Pompeii that were reconstructed after the earthquake of CE 62, and must therefore have been written between CE 62 and 79." [3] [4]
Other scholars argue that this is not strong evidence for the survival of Oscan, given the disappearance of public inscriptions in Oscan after Roman colonization. [5] It is possible that both languages may have existed simultaneously under different conditions, in which Roman was given political, religious, and administrative importance while Oscan was considered a 'low' language. [6] This phenomenon is referred to as diglossia with bilingualism. [7] Some Oscan graffiti exists from the first century CE, but it is rare to find evidence from Italy of Latin-speaking Roman citizens representing themselves as having non-Latin-speaking ancestors. [8] Minervascripps ( talk) 22:37, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |doi=
value (
help)
The shape of the letters suggests that Oscan was written from right to left. Is this the case? One way or the other, it needs to be stated. Koro Neil ( talk) 21:12, 6 March 2023 (UTC)