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Domestication of the dog article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The Natufian culture article makes a dig domestication claim citing this source. I do not see this previous discussed in this talk archive or in the article currently.
Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:11, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
"An extinct Late Pleistocene wolf may have been the ancestor of the dog, with one study proposing that this Pleistocene wolf was closer in size to a village dog." This claim implies that dogs may descend from a particularly small Pleistocene wolf.
The link accompanying this notion leads to a paper about foxes that, in turn, links to the paper A wolf in dog's clothing: Initial dog domestication and Pleistocene wolf variation. The fox article author even directly says that "Modern dogs, however, <...> may be descended from a Pleistocene wolf closer in size to a village dog". The original paper (it's behind a paywall, but you all know how to read it), however, says nothing about dogs descending from a smaller subspecies of wolves, or even about Pleistocene wolves being of specific size. All it says is that Pleistocene wolves were highly variable and some of the proposed "early dog remains" could actually be wolves with uncharacteristic phenotypes, so we should be careful when claiming that "a new find moves dog domestication date to 30000 BC". Руккенхоф ( talk) 00:41, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to give it a try. -- 84.132.144.110 ( talk) 03:05, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Moved as proposed. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear consensus to move these titles and make them consistent. Internal scope concerns can be addressed through regular editing. BD2412 T 03:05, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
– This set of articles is inconsistently named though they all cover the same theme. That theme is
domestication, a well-defined co-evolutionary process which ought to be in the title. Domestication of the...
seems the most
natural and concise way to describe the topic, and is in line with the common phrasing in literature (e.g.
[1]). It also uses the
singular form.
Related articles already following this pattern:
The alternatives Evolution of...
and History of...
are a bit misleading since they imply a focus on the species' pre- and post-domestication history, respectively. Origin of the domestic...
is just unnecessarily clunky, using four words where one would do. They're not terrible titles, but consistency across a topic is
always desirable would be easy to achieve here. –
Joe (
talk) 10:34, 24 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.
Spekkios (
talk) 22:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Statements in the Article
• In 2021, a literature review of the current evidence infers that domestication of the dog began in Siberia 26,000-19,700 years ago...
• The dog diverged from a now-extinct population of wolves 27,000-40,000 years ago immediately before the Last Glacial Maximum, when much of the mammoth steppe was cold and dry.
• The oldest known dog skeletons are found in the Altai Mountains of Siberia and a cave in Belgium, dated ~33,000 years ago. According to studies, this may indicate that the domestication of dogs occurred simultaneously in different geographic locations.
Comment
If this info can be harmonized to a comprehensive explanation that includes all the dates, it would be much clearer. FWIW, as it is, I find it confusing. PixelDroid ( talk) 22:33, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Domestication of the dog article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A summary of this article appears in Dog. |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The Natufian culture article makes a dig domestication claim citing this source. I do not see this previous discussed in this talk archive or in the article currently.
Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:11, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
"An extinct Late Pleistocene wolf may have been the ancestor of the dog, with one study proposing that this Pleistocene wolf was closer in size to a village dog." This claim implies that dogs may descend from a particularly small Pleistocene wolf.
The link accompanying this notion leads to a paper about foxes that, in turn, links to the paper A wolf in dog's clothing: Initial dog domestication and Pleistocene wolf variation. The fox article author even directly says that "Modern dogs, however, <...> may be descended from a Pleistocene wolf closer in size to a village dog". The original paper (it's behind a paywall, but you all know how to read it), however, says nothing about dogs descending from a smaller subspecies of wolves, or even about Pleistocene wolves being of specific size. All it says is that Pleistocene wolves were highly variable and some of the proposed "early dog remains" could actually be wolves with uncharacteristic phenotypes, so we should be careful when claiming that "a new find moves dog domestication date to 30000 BC". Руккенхоф ( talk) 00:41, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to give it a try. -- 84.132.144.110 ( talk) 03:05, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Moved as proposed. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear consensus to move these titles and make them consistent. Internal scope concerns can be addressed through regular editing. BD2412 T 03:05, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
– This set of articles is inconsistently named though they all cover the same theme. That theme is
domestication, a well-defined co-evolutionary process which ought to be in the title. Domestication of the...
seems the most
natural and concise way to describe the topic, and is in line with the common phrasing in literature (e.g.
[1]). It also uses the
singular form.
Related articles already following this pattern:
The alternatives Evolution of...
and History of...
are a bit misleading since they imply a focus on the species' pre- and post-domestication history, respectively. Origin of the domestic...
is just unnecessarily clunky, using four words where one would do. They're not terrible titles, but consistency across a topic is
always desirable would be easy to achieve here. –
Joe (
talk) 10:34, 24 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.
Spekkios (
talk) 22:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Statements in the Article
• In 2021, a literature review of the current evidence infers that domestication of the dog began in Siberia 26,000-19,700 years ago...
• The dog diverged from a now-extinct population of wolves 27,000-40,000 years ago immediately before the Last Glacial Maximum, when much of the mammoth steppe was cold and dry.
• The oldest known dog skeletons are found in the Altai Mountains of Siberia and a cave in Belgium, dated ~33,000 years ago. According to studies, this may indicate that the domestication of dogs occurred simultaneously in different geographic locations.
Comment
If this info can be harmonized to a comprehensive explanation that includes all the dates, it would be much clearer. FWIW, as it is, I find it confusing. PixelDroid ( talk) 22:33, 10 November 2023 (UTC)