A fact from Organ donation in India appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 July 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Effective Altruism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relevant to
effective altruism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Effective AltruismWikipedia:WikiProject Effective AltruismTemplate:WikiProject Effective AltruismEffective Altruism articles
This article has been rated as Low-importance on the
importance scale.
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Sorry, I don't think this is interesting to a wide audience, and I don't see any other fact in the article that would be. I had considered ... that due to congested roads, India is considering using
air ambulances to transport its organ donations? as a possibility, but unfortunately the source is not sufficient; an opinion by one doctor, even if he directs a notable organ transplant NGO, is insufficient to say the government is considering wide use of air ambulances. There are also several very strange statements, such as that Andhra Pradesh has failed to "adopt" a federal Indian law, which is illegal and inaccurate, as I learned while writing
2017_pro-jallikattu_protests#Timeline. I think this subject matters, and if you fix the sourcing in these areas, fix some minor grammatical errors, and write a more interesting hook, etc., perhaps you can re-request a review.
Psiĥedelisto (
talk)
21:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for reviewing. Air ambulances are in use already but I don't think that, or anything else in the article can be of use for another hook. I'll look to improve the article as you suggested. Thank you for your time.
Shanze1 (
talk)
01:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Psiĥedelisto and
Shanze1: Interestingness by itself is never used to outright reject an article, though it's common to request a more interesting hook. I personally think both the original and Psiĥedelisto's hooks are interesting. Full review follows.
I have now addressed all said issues. Removed inaccurate statements and made sure everything's consistent with the sources. Also made efforts to fix grammar errors.
Shanze1 (
talk)
07:26, 23 May 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Shanze1: I noticed another issue: according to the sources including
[1], it looks like there was one amendment that was proposed in 2009 and adopted in 2011, rather than two separate amendments. Also, for the Organisations and Statistics sections, it's a bit unclear which reference matches to each section/list/chart. I've made a slight change to the hook wording as well.
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (
talk)
22:18, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH), Thank you for fixing that grave error, I must've misinterpreted the sources. I have organised the citations to make it clear now. For charts, there's only one source.
@
Shanze1: I have given the article a copyedit. I added a few "citation needed" tags where information needs to be sourced. That figure in the lead comparing the minuscule rate of organ donations in India compared to the worldwide average would be a very interesting hook IMO if it can be sourced.
Yoninah (
talk)
12:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your copyedit,
Yoninah. I have added the needed references and here are two new hooks, including about the one you suggested.
ALT1: ... that only around 0.01 percent of Indians donate their organs after death, while in western nations around 70 to 80 percent of people do? Source
ALT2: ... that despite performing the second largest number of organ transplantations in the world, India's organ donation rate still remains at only 0.65 per million? Source
@
Shanze1: Thank you. We had an edit conflict right now, where I was fixing up the grammar in your additions and you restored it or something. Next time you nominate for DYK, you might want to apply at
WP:GOCE for a copyedit before submitting an article.
ALT1 hook ref is verified and cited inline. However, I would write it this way, so as not to confuse American Indians with people from India:
ALT1a: ... that only around 0.01 percent of people in India donate their organs after death, compared to 70 to 80 percent of people in western nations?
@
Yoninah and
Shanze1: No, really! You can't put such a false statement as this on the main page. It's not the figures that are wrong, but the facts. 70 to 80 percent of westerners may have offered to donate their organs after death, but only a minute fraction have actually done so.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
More accurate suggestion
ALT1b: ... that only around 0.01 percent of people in India pledge to donate their organs after death, compared to 70 to 80 percent of people in western nations?Shanze1 (
talk)
05:56, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
You're right for calling this out,
Cwmhiraeth, but the source is comparing actual organ donors with pledged organ donors:
According to WHO only about 0.01 percent of people in India donate their organs after death as compared to western countries, where around 70-80 percent of people pledge their organs.
This doesn't seem like a proper comparison. I think the part about western pledgers should be removed from the article, and a different hook found.
Yoninah (
talk)
10:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Ok. That is indeed an odd comparison, I failed to notice. How about this older hook?
There were some oddities in the article, including two undefined references, but I think I've addressed them. While the Statistics section replicated the source material, it was odd in that there was no data for 2019 and 2020 yet the graph and pie chart included both years. I've adjusted both accordingly, and I think that section could provide a potentially interesting hook.
Shanze1,
Yoninah, let me know what you think about ALT3:
I'm not entirely sure that this is the best wording, but I was trying to avoid two uses of "donor/donation", and to be accurate this is number of donated organs, not of donors. What I'm wondering about is the notice on the source page that reads, Disclaimer: Transplant data being shown on this site is in developing stage and does not include all hospitals of the country. To know the data source, different drop down menu may be selected. So the data is possibly (probably?) incomplete, and I'm not sure how the hook or the article should be affected by that—it may be that this is not, after all, usable. Or we could use something like "that according to available government data, from 1995 to 2018" (and so on). If this doesn't work, we'll probably need to mark the nomination for closure, which is what I originally came to do until I got the idea for ALT3.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
03:46, 8 June 2020 (UTC)reply
BlueMoonset, The hook is nice. But as you've pointed out, the disclaimer is concerning. This
source appears to have more complete data. But don't think it's a good idea to replace the official outlet with that. There are also other sources (
[2]) mentioning how live donors are predominant in India, that might support the hook. But I can't find any that cites the actual data. Owing to this vagueness, I think its best to close this.
Shanze1 (
talk)
06:08, 8 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Yoninah,
Shanze1, I think that the statistics issue could be dealt with by giving context in the article—noting that it's an official source that characterizes itself as incomplete. Provided that we don't use any of the earlier hooks that use this source, I think ALT4 is a possibility, but would want someone else to comment on whether it's sufficiently interesting. However, the ball is in Shanze1's court: we can proceed, but if they still prefer to withdraw the nomination or don't wish to amend the article, then it should probably close.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
01:14, 23 June 2020 (UTC)reply
A fact from Organ donation in India appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 July 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Effective Altruism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relevant to
effective altruism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Effective AltruismWikipedia:WikiProject Effective AltruismTemplate:WikiProject Effective AltruismEffective Altruism articles
This article has been rated as Low-importance on the
importance scale.
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Sorry, I don't think this is interesting to a wide audience, and I don't see any other fact in the article that would be. I had considered ... that due to congested roads, India is considering using
air ambulances to transport its organ donations? as a possibility, but unfortunately the source is not sufficient; an opinion by one doctor, even if he directs a notable organ transplant NGO, is insufficient to say the government is considering wide use of air ambulances. There are also several very strange statements, such as that Andhra Pradesh has failed to "adopt" a federal Indian law, which is illegal and inaccurate, as I learned while writing
2017_pro-jallikattu_protests#Timeline. I think this subject matters, and if you fix the sourcing in these areas, fix some minor grammatical errors, and write a more interesting hook, etc., perhaps you can re-request a review.
Psiĥedelisto (
talk)
21:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for reviewing. Air ambulances are in use already but I don't think that, or anything else in the article can be of use for another hook. I'll look to improve the article as you suggested. Thank you for your time.
Shanze1 (
talk)
01:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Psiĥedelisto and
Shanze1: Interestingness by itself is never used to outright reject an article, though it's common to request a more interesting hook. I personally think both the original and Psiĥedelisto's hooks are interesting. Full review follows.
I have now addressed all said issues. Removed inaccurate statements and made sure everything's consistent with the sources. Also made efforts to fix grammar errors.
Shanze1 (
talk)
07:26, 23 May 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Shanze1: I noticed another issue: according to the sources including
[1], it looks like there was one amendment that was proposed in 2009 and adopted in 2011, rather than two separate amendments. Also, for the Organisations and Statistics sections, it's a bit unclear which reference matches to each section/list/chart. I've made a slight change to the hook wording as well.
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (
talk)
22:18, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH), Thank you for fixing that grave error, I must've misinterpreted the sources. I have organised the citations to make it clear now. For charts, there's only one source.
@
Shanze1: I have given the article a copyedit. I added a few "citation needed" tags where information needs to be sourced. That figure in the lead comparing the minuscule rate of organ donations in India compared to the worldwide average would be a very interesting hook IMO if it can be sourced.
Yoninah (
talk)
12:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your copyedit,
Yoninah. I have added the needed references and here are two new hooks, including about the one you suggested.
ALT1: ... that only around 0.01 percent of Indians donate their organs after death, while in western nations around 70 to 80 percent of people do? Source
ALT2: ... that despite performing the second largest number of organ transplantations in the world, India's organ donation rate still remains at only 0.65 per million? Source
@
Shanze1: Thank you. We had an edit conflict right now, where I was fixing up the grammar in your additions and you restored it or something. Next time you nominate for DYK, you might want to apply at
WP:GOCE for a copyedit before submitting an article.
ALT1 hook ref is verified and cited inline. However, I would write it this way, so as not to confuse American Indians with people from India:
ALT1a: ... that only around 0.01 percent of people in India donate their organs after death, compared to 70 to 80 percent of people in western nations?
@
Yoninah and
Shanze1: No, really! You can't put such a false statement as this on the main page. It's not the figures that are wrong, but the facts. 70 to 80 percent of westerners may have offered to donate their organs after death, but only a minute fraction have actually done so.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
More accurate suggestion
ALT1b: ... that only around 0.01 percent of people in India pledge to donate their organs after death, compared to 70 to 80 percent of people in western nations?Shanze1 (
talk)
05:56, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
You're right for calling this out,
Cwmhiraeth, but the source is comparing actual organ donors with pledged organ donors:
According to WHO only about 0.01 percent of people in India donate their organs after death as compared to western countries, where around 70-80 percent of people pledge their organs.
This doesn't seem like a proper comparison. I think the part about western pledgers should be removed from the article, and a different hook found.
Yoninah (
talk)
10:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Ok. That is indeed an odd comparison, I failed to notice. How about this older hook?
There were some oddities in the article, including two undefined references, but I think I've addressed them. While the Statistics section replicated the source material, it was odd in that there was no data for 2019 and 2020 yet the graph and pie chart included both years. I've adjusted both accordingly, and I think that section could provide a potentially interesting hook.
Shanze1,
Yoninah, let me know what you think about ALT3:
I'm not entirely sure that this is the best wording, but I was trying to avoid two uses of "donor/donation", and to be accurate this is number of donated organs, not of donors. What I'm wondering about is the notice on the source page that reads, Disclaimer: Transplant data being shown on this site is in developing stage and does not include all hospitals of the country. To know the data source, different drop down menu may be selected. So the data is possibly (probably?) incomplete, and I'm not sure how the hook or the article should be affected by that—it may be that this is not, after all, usable. Or we could use something like "that according to available government data, from 1995 to 2018" (and so on). If this doesn't work, we'll probably need to mark the nomination for closure, which is what I originally came to do until I got the idea for ALT3.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
03:46, 8 June 2020 (UTC)reply
BlueMoonset, The hook is nice. But as you've pointed out, the disclaimer is concerning. This
source appears to have more complete data. But don't think it's a good idea to replace the official outlet with that. There are also other sources (
[2]) mentioning how live donors are predominant in India, that might support the hook. But I can't find any that cites the actual data. Owing to this vagueness, I think its best to close this.
Shanze1 (
talk)
06:08, 8 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Yoninah,
Shanze1, I think that the statistics issue could be dealt with by giving context in the article—noting that it's an official source that characterizes itself as incomplete. Provided that we don't use any of the earlier hooks that use this source, I think ALT4 is a possibility, but would want someone else to comment on whether it's sufficiently interesting. However, the ball is in Shanze1's court: we can proceed, but if they still prefer to withdraw the nomination or don't wish to amend the article, then it should probably close.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
01:14, 23 June 2020 (UTC)reply