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Removed http://www.pbs.org/opb/oregontrail/teacher/trailmap.html -- PBS lists the page as having been retired -- Carnildo 07:41, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)
About my changes: all but one detail I pulled from published histories I have about the Oregon Trail. The exception is the late of the last wagon train, which is based on family tradition: my (great-) Aunt Margaret came as a child from Missouri to Vancouver, Washington by wagon train (she told this to my father). Best I can determine, this happened after the railroad connected Oregon & Washington to the rest of the country, some time in the 1880s or 1890s. I hope my fellow contributors will overlook this use of unprinted sources.
Travel by wagon & horse was far less expensive than by train, & the Oregon Trail probably was used well into the 20th century, when paved roads at last rendered it unnecessary. -- llywrch 20:11, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In "Dangers," I have always thought guns were the friend of the pioneer and Indians were the danger, but here apparently gun accidents are a greater danger than Indians. That sounds like a politicized slant, but I guess it would not be very difficult to locate sources to cite. I just cannot imagine that the Indians who were being genocided out of existence by the U.S. Army would be much help to pioneers, or maybe Dances With Wolves got it wrong.
Thanks to the editor who did the cleanup. The article still needs sources and with all the additions and subtractions by various editors, I think the history section needs to have its facts checked. I'm not sure it's entirely chronological at this point, and has left out some key points. I'm not going to slap the {{ cleanup}} tag back on this, but I thought I'd make a note here. I hope to get around to it, but I also hope someone beats me to it. The routes section could use a going-over too. Katr67 15:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand all the references to the Donner Party. They were following a branch of the California Trail when they were trapped, not the Oregon Trail. – Shoaler ( talk) 10:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems unusual that there would be only one land route from the settled parts of the United States to the Western territories (where the Oregon, California, and Mormon Trails coincide). It would be interesting to explain alternate land routes, and to what extent they were used. Were more northerly or southerly routes avoided because of terrain, or potential attacks from locals? -- Beland 19:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The article currently contains this statement: "The first land route across what is now the United States that was well-mapped was that taken by Lewis and Clark from 1804 to 1805. They believed they had found a practical route to the west coast." ... did they really think they had found a practical route? I was under the impression they well knew it involved an arduous and difficult crossing of the Rocky Mountains -- certainly not practical in terms of watercraft portaging or wagons. Yes, they found a route, but I'm skeptical they called it "practical". So I'm adding a cn tag. Pfly ( talk) 21:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
If not a "practical" route, then at least the best one: "William Clark told President Jefferson that they had discovered the best route across the continent, but he could hardly have been more wrong."- http://www.slate.com/id/2150568/ Jtherlow ( talk) 00:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
This article mentions US26 as a busy highway that follows much of the Oregon Trail. Wouldn't I-84 be a much better example here? In Oregon and Idaho, this interstate is full of historic Oregon Trail sites left and right, all over the place. This is also a great example of the major road of the past becoming a major road of the present.
71.212.22.51 ( talk) 05:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
First of all, I would like to thank everybody who has been working on this article lately, especially User:D'lin. The article has definitely been much improved over a few months ago. I want to discuss a re factoring of the history section - while the history of the Oregon territory is interesting, it is is outside of the scope of this article, since we are more interested in the trail rather then what attracted the travelers in the first place. I think we should make liberal use of the {{ see}} template to point readers at the more detailed articles (such as Astorians, Lewis and Clark Expedition, Oregon country, etc). This may reduce the size of the article slightly, but I think it will end up making it more readable and more enjoyable to the average Joe. Following this refactoring, I think we should make a push for GA status, and follow that up with FA (some time before the deadline). Thoughts? CosmicPenguin ( Talk) 16:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a good song by Woody called "Oregon trail". You might want to include the mention. Cheers, -- CopperKettle 22:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I propose that this should be mentioned and a part of this Wiki on the Oregon Trail. The Oregon Trail Split from the Santa Fe Trail two miles West of Gardner. While there are other feeder trails, it seems to be that this was a big part leading out from Independence and Westport from what I have read up on this. The National Park Service has this covered here: http://www.nps.gov/archive/safe/fnl-sft/photos/kspages/sforgjct.htm The1who ( talk) 09:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Even this Wiki makes mention of it splitting off from Santa Fe near Gardner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Trail The1who ( talk) 10:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be some confusion concerning the distances between South Pass to Raft River and to Cathedral Rocks. Maybe the following will help.
See: Stewart, George R. (1962).
The California Trail. Bison Books. pp. 127 to 141.
ISBN
0-8032-9143-4. Retrieved 01/31/2010. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help)
A- Old Oregon Trail South Pass to Raft River
(1) South Pass to the Little Sandy = 20 miles. (2) Little Sandy to Fort Bridger = 110 miles. (3) Fort Bridger to Smith's Fork = 85 miles. (4) Smiths Fork to Soda Springs = 70 miles. (5) Soda Springs to Fort Hall = 55 miles. (6) Fort Hall to Raft River = 40 miles.
Total: = 380 miles.
B- Old California Trail South Pass to Cathedral Rocks
(1) South Pass to Raft River 380 miles. (2) Raft River to Cassia Creek = 40 miles. (3) Cassia Creek to Cathedral Rocks = 25 miles.
Total: = 445.
C- 1844 Sublette-Greenwood Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Little Sandy = 20 Miles. (2) Little Sandy to Smith's Fork = 110 miles. (3) Smith's Fork to Raft River = 165 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 295 miles.
(4) South Pass to Raft River = 295 miles. (5) Raft River to Cathedral Rocks = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks = 360 miles.
D- Hudspeth's Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Soda Springs via Fort Bridger = 285 miles. (2) South Pass to Soda Springs via Sublette's Cutoff = 200 miles. (3) Soda Springs to Cassia Creek = 130 Miles. (4) Cassia Creek to Cathedral Rocks = 25 miles.
Total: South pass to Cathedral Rocks via Fort Bridger = 440 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks via Sublette's Cutoff = 355 miles.
E- Hastings's and Hensley's Cutoffs.
(1) South Pass to Fort Bridger = 130 miles. (2) Hastings's Cutoff to Salt Lake City = 120 miles. (3) Hensley's Cutoff to Cathedral Rocks = 190 miles. (4) Cathedral Rocks to Raft River = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks = 440 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 505 miles
F- Lander's Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Fort Hall = 265 miles. [1] (2) Fort Hall to Raft River = 40 miles. (3) Fort Hall to Cathedral Rocks = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 305 miles.
Total: South pass to Cathedral Rocks = 370 miles. Tinosa ( talk) 04:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I see that there is concern that this article may be too long. I suggest splitting into History of the Oregon Trail and Route of the Oregon Trail, as those sections are the longest and the broadest topics, and leaving a concise summary of those topics in this article. Any other ideas, or is this what should be done? -- Jsayre64 (talk) 19:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The article is at 125 KB, which is in the 'almost certainly should be divided' range. It's also very hard to tell from the article what counts as the Oregon Trail what's just a trip out west. May I suggest that we focus our attention on the path west to the Platte, along the Platte, the North Platte, and the Sweetwater, through the South Pass, to the Green River, Snake River, and then into Oregon? An initial section can discuss Trail Blazers, and discuss Lewis and Clark's exploration of the Snake and the Columbia and talk about the impracticality of their path across the Rockies. The discussion of the Astorians should focus on Fort Astoria and Stuart's trip back. The discussion of the Northwest Company should focus on Forts Nez Perces, Vancouver, and Boise and omit Forts Colville and Victoria. And so on. Stuff that isn't directly relevant to that particular path should be omitted or curtailed. Beamish Son ( talk) 03:09, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
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The recommended amount of food to take for per adult was 150 pounds (68 kilograms) of flour, 20 pounds (9.1 kilograms) of corn meal, 50 pounds (23 kilograms) of bacon, 40 pounds (18 kilograms) of sugar, 10 pounds (4.5 kilograms) of coffee, 15 pounds (6.8 kilograms) of dried fruit, 5 pounds (2.3 kilograms) of salt, half a pound (0.25 kg) of saleratus ( baking powder/ baking soda leavening mix), 2 pounds (0.91 kilograms) of tea, 5 pounds (2.3 kilograms) of rice, and 15 pounds (6.8 kilograms) of beans. These provisions were usually kept in water-tight containers or barrels to minimize spoilage. The usual meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner along the trail was bacon, beans, and coffee, with biscuits or bread. [1] The typical cost of food for four people for six months was about $150. [2]
208.67.132.5 ( talk) 23:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
References
I believe I detect an error in the sentence "By 1836, when the first migrant wagon train was organized in Independence, Missouri, a wagon train had been cleared to Fort Hall, Idaho." My guess is that the second occurrence of the word "train" should actually be "trail." One would not clear a "wagon train," but one would clear a "wagon trail." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.54.143 ( talk) 03:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been searching all over to try to figure out how many people took part in westward expansion, but I can't seem to find statistics on this anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.109.8 ( talk) 14:16, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Fixed Main page updated and purged. — EncMstr ( talk) 17:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
A factoid of this article made the front page on Wikipedia today. Too bad there is a glaring error. These kinds of errors are what gives Wikipedia a bad name. :( The factoid states
I'm not here to debate the "major" part, but where it says "a thousand pioneers" has just GOT to be wrong. This article claims a significantly lower number as
I don't know how to change things on the front page, but I really hope we don't see this as trivia now at other sites because they read it here. I may x-post (yes, that's bad but hopefully someone can fix it today or now) this to the 1843 page. MagnoliaSouth ( talk) 15:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Elm Grove, Missouri redirects to this page, so the link on this page is circular.
Other than as the starting point for this one wagon train, I can find no reference to the location or existence of Elm Grove, Missouri. Kurtreedk ( talk) 20:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
To identify the overlinks, I used a script based on the guidelines at WP:OVERLINK. The script detected many duplicate links of various kinds, and I removed them a few at a time, section by section. I thought I should explain here what I did and how. The script is at User:Ucucha/duplinks and can be used to find duplicate links in any article. Finetooth ( talk) 19:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Reference 17 is an explanation - not a reference -- 92.74.51.243 ( talk) 22:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
The last sentence of the Colorado section is grammatically/syntactically incorrect, but I can't change it since I don't know what the (original) writer of the article meant by it. Does anyone else know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.104.85 ( talk) 11:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The use of the word "Indian" throughout this article is both unaccurate and unhelpful, in a scholarly sense. As is commonly known, a great deal of specific information is available on the domains and ranges of the dozens of tribes of North America, as are referenced in Wikipedia's own Native American's entry at Native Americans in the United States.
Using the correct names (and the cultural attributes) of these people would add measurably to the richness and accuracy of this entry.
As a start to cracking the wall of uniformity and error, I began a transition to identifying the specific tribes or nations encountered along the trail by replacing the generic and inaccurate word "Indian" with the phrase "indigenous people."
My work was immediately "reverted" by Richard Jensen (rjensen), in the style of someone fixing vandalism. Mr Jensen did not send me an explanation (a courtesy well within the Wiki protocol, methinks) and has not responded to my inquiry about his action.
I would like to work on the Oregon Trail entry; it can be much improved both by specifying the names of the cultural groups (in much the way the trappers, miners, farmers, ranchers, Mormons, etc., are already identified in the entry), by adding new information (the Whitmans were murdered at their Walla Walla mission by members of the Cayuse ( Whitman Mission National Historic Site), and by establishing more documentation (references) outside of Wikipedia.
I hestitate to do this work as rjensen appears to be standing ready to "revert" edits under cloak of darkness. I'd appreciate advice on how to handle this situation. The Oregon Trail entry deserves better. Hlwelborn ( talk) 21:34, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
In writing a family history that includes my great grandparents coming to Idaho partly on the Oregon Trail, I have found some information that I think may be incorrect, as follows:
The Wikipedia quoted “recommended” supply of food for an adult setting out on the Oregon Trail is shown in the table. This recommendation had to have been made by the merchant selling the supplies. The 313 lbs. sum of the recommended weighs does not include the weight of the containers. The containers would have had to be either wood or iron so the containers would add maybe 20% to the net weight of the food. That would bring the weight to 376 lb. for each adult. That’s more than three times the weight of a combat solder’s pack and weapon. Given that a pack horse’s load must be limited to about 30% of the horse’s weight, the horse to carry that pack of food would have to weigh more than 6000 lb. The Budweiser Clydesdales weigh about 2000 to 2200 lb. apiece.
Elsewhere in the article is a statement that a man could join a wagon train for no cost by helping with herding animals etc. I believe that my great grandfather and his three brothers did just that. I find it hard to believe that they would have been accepted if another wagon would have been required to haul the food they would consume on the trip.
Another indication that the weights are too high is that in a 100 day trip each person was expected to eat more than three pounds of these dry commodities. With water to cook added, that weight would be more in the seven lb. range, which I don't think is realistic.
I have no better information to provide but what's there would seem to need a credibility check. Antiquerookie ( talk) 06:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it's extremely problematic that the only mentions in this article of Native Americans/indigenous folks (see below) are when they have killed settlers?
It's completely one-sided and white-/Western-centric not to include how the westward expansion affected traditions, lands and lives of Native Americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tayloraapplegate ( talk • contribs) 19:45, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
>>Western scout Kit Carson reputedly said, “The cowards never started and the weak died on the way.”<< I don't write for Wikipedia, but someone should change this immediately. I've researched the quote and it's from Joaquin Miller, not Kit Carson. http://barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/cowards_never_start_the_weak_never_finish_winners_never_quit/ Barry ( talk) 16:24, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps I might bring the benefit of being an outsider? I am not a US citizen or descendant! But I was surprised not to find a brief section on Oregon Trail Literature - under Legacy for example. It seems it is taught in the USA - quite rightly, I suppose, in view of its historic importance. See for e.g. "Recommended Oregon Trail Books for Students- An Annotated Bibliography," which I quickly found using a well-known search engine. I would not presume to draft the proposed section, however - sorry but not in my realm of experience. Okan 12:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
An Annotated Bibliography
I don't see any mention of the Oregon Trail in Idaho following the geologic remains of the Yellowstone Hotspot, which had "flattened" out the landscape allowing a large portion of the trail to go over non-mountainous terrain. Just a neat historical comment that the six or so eruptions of the Yellowstone supervolcano over the past 16 million years "paved" the way for the settlers of the 1800's to transverse a relatively "easy" path.
Ted from Florida ( talk) 21:57, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
I've begun looking at the trail articles a bit closer as I'm looking to added a linking system; i.e., Before xxx , After xxx; in the articles along each trail. Two items I have a concern about.
The Oregon trail, this article, did not go through Iowa. Everything I've read shows that it started in Missouri (KC) then through Kansas to Nebraska. If a trail user entered the trail from Omaha or Nebraska City, they came independently up the Missouri River or overland. Anyways there is no Iowa linkage linkage on the Nat'l Historic Trail designation. The section reads solely as a history of Iowa, no trail mention. I recommend the section be removed.
Now, here is an Iowa link, the Mormon Pioneer Trail, does cross Iowa and there is an extensive section 'Mormon emigration' in the History Section. It's linked to the main article on Mormon emigration. The first paragraph is a recap of Mormon trail history, outside the preview of this article. It should be capsulized. The second paragraph implies that the Mormons traveled the California and Oregon Trail, where as the trails overlapped through Wyoming, the Mormons were not using these other trails, they had their own guides, supply processes, camping spots and it's only from Fort Laramie in Wyoming to Fort Bridger (Wyoming) that the routes overlapped. This material is well covered in the Mormon Trail article and should be reduced dramatically here. The last paragraph does add information about the non-Mormon users of the Oregon & California Trail.
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect The 6 non-parishable foods of the Oregon Trail and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 25#The 6 non-parishable foods of the Oregon Trail until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. House Blaster talk 22:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect The Oregon Trail (video game and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 27#The Oregon Trail (video game until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 ( talk) 19:14, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Oregon Trail article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 16, 2012. |
Removed http://www.pbs.org/opb/oregontrail/teacher/trailmap.html -- PBS lists the page as having been retired -- Carnildo 07:41, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)
About my changes: all but one detail I pulled from published histories I have about the Oregon Trail. The exception is the late of the last wagon train, which is based on family tradition: my (great-) Aunt Margaret came as a child from Missouri to Vancouver, Washington by wagon train (she told this to my father). Best I can determine, this happened after the railroad connected Oregon & Washington to the rest of the country, some time in the 1880s or 1890s. I hope my fellow contributors will overlook this use of unprinted sources.
Travel by wagon & horse was far less expensive than by train, & the Oregon Trail probably was used well into the 20th century, when paved roads at last rendered it unnecessary. -- llywrch 20:11, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In "Dangers," I have always thought guns were the friend of the pioneer and Indians were the danger, but here apparently gun accidents are a greater danger than Indians. That sounds like a politicized slant, but I guess it would not be very difficult to locate sources to cite. I just cannot imagine that the Indians who were being genocided out of existence by the U.S. Army would be much help to pioneers, or maybe Dances With Wolves got it wrong.
Thanks to the editor who did the cleanup. The article still needs sources and with all the additions and subtractions by various editors, I think the history section needs to have its facts checked. I'm not sure it's entirely chronological at this point, and has left out some key points. I'm not going to slap the {{ cleanup}} tag back on this, but I thought I'd make a note here. I hope to get around to it, but I also hope someone beats me to it. The routes section could use a going-over too. Katr67 15:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand all the references to the Donner Party. They were following a branch of the California Trail when they were trapped, not the Oregon Trail. – Shoaler ( talk) 10:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems unusual that there would be only one land route from the settled parts of the United States to the Western territories (where the Oregon, California, and Mormon Trails coincide). It would be interesting to explain alternate land routes, and to what extent they were used. Were more northerly or southerly routes avoided because of terrain, or potential attacks from locals? -- Beland 19:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The article currently contains this statement: "The first land route across what is now the United States that was well-mapped was that taken by Lewis and Clark from 1804 to 1805. They believed they had found a practical route to the west coast." ... did they really think they had found a practical route? I was under the impression they well knew it involved an arduous and difficult crossing of the Rocky Mountains -- certainly not practical in terms of watercraft portaging or wagons. Yes, they found a route, but I'm skeptical they called it "practical". So I'm adding a cn tag. Pfly ( talk) 21:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
If not a "practical" route, then at least the best one: "William Clark told President Jefferson that they had discovered the best route across the continent, but he could hardly have been more wrong."- http://www.slate.com/id/2150568/ Jtherlow ( talk) 00:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
This article mentions US26 as a busy highway that follows much of the Oregon Trail. Wouldn't I-84 be a much better example here? In Oregon and Idaho, this interstate is full of historic Oregon Trail sites left and right, all over the place. This is also a great example of the major road of the past becoming a major road of the present.
71.212.22.51 ( talk) 05:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
First of all, I would like to thank everybody who has been working on this article lately, especially User:D'lin. The article has definitely been much improved over a few months ago. I want to discuss a re factoring of the history section - while the history of the Oregon territory is interesting, it is is outside of the scope of this article, since we are more interested in the trail rather then what attracted the travelers in the first place. I think we should make liberal use of the {{ see}} template to point readers at the more detailed articles (such as Astorians, Lewis and Clark Expedition, Oregon country, etc). This may reduce the size of the article slightly, but I think it will end up making it more readable and more enjoyable to the average Joe. Following this refactoring, I think we should make a push for GA status, and follow that up with FA (some time before the deadline). Thoughts? CosmicPenguin ( Talk) 16:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a good song by Woody called "Oregon trail". You might want to include the mention. Cheers, -- CopperKettle 22:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I propose that this should be mentioned and a part of this Wiki on the Oregon Trail. The Oregon Trail Split from the Santa Fe Trail two miles West of Gardner. While there are other feeder trails, it seems to be that this was a big part leading out from Independence and Westport from what I have read up on this. The National Park Service has this covered here: http://www.nps.gov/archive/safe/fnl-sft/photos/kspages/sforgjct.htm The1who ( talk) 09:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Even this Wiki makes mention of it splitting off from Santa Fe near Gardner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Trail The1who ( talk) 10:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be some confusion concerning the distances between South Pass to Raft River and to Cathedral Rocks. Maybe the following will help.
See: Stewart, George R. (1962).
The California Trail. Bison Books. pp. 127 to 141.
ISBN
0-8032-9143-4. Retrieved 01/31/2010. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help)
A- Old Oregon Trail South Pass to Raft River
(1) South Pass to the Little Sandy = 20 miles. (2) Little Sandy to Fort Bridger = 110 miles. (3) Fort Bridger to Smith's Fork = 85 miles. (4) Smiths Fork to Soda Springs = 70 miles. (5) Soda Springs to Fort Hall = 55 miles. (6) Fort Hall to Raft River = 40 miles.
Total: = 380 miles.
B- Old California Trail South Pass to Cathedral Rocks
(1) South Pass to Raft River 380 miles. (2) Raft River to Cassia Creek = 40 miles. (3) Cassia Creek to Cathedral Rocks = 25 miles.
Total: = 445.
C- 1844 Sublette-Greenwood Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Little Sandy = 20 Miles. (2) Little Sandy to Smith's Fork = 110 miles. (3) Smith's Fork to Raft River = 165 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 295 miles.
(4) South Pass to Raft River = 295 miles. (5) Raft River to Cathedral Rocks = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks = 360 miles.
D- Hudspeth's Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Soda Springs via Fort Bridger = 285 miles. (2) South Pass to Soda Springs via Sublette's Cutoff = 200 miles. (3) Soda Springs to Cassia Creek = 130 Miles. (4) Cassia Creek to Cathedral Rocks = 25 miles.
Total: South pass to Cathedral Rocks via Fort Bridger = 440 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks via Sublette's Cutoff = 355 miles.
E- Hastings's and Hensley's Cutoffs.
(1) South Pass to Fort Bridger = 130 miles. (2) Hastings's Cutoff to Salt Lake City = 120 miles. (3) Hensley's Cutoff to Cathedral Rocks = 190 miles. (4) Cathedral Rocks to Raft River = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Cathedral Rocks = 440 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 505 miles
F- Lander's Cutoff
(1) South Pass to Fort Hall = 265 miles. [1] (2) Fort Hall to Raft River = 40 miles. (3) Fort Hall to Cathedral Rocks = 65 miles.
Total: South Pass to Raft River = 305 miles.
Total: South pass to Cathedral Rocks = 370 miles. Tinosa ( talk) 04:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I see that there is concern that this article may be too long. I suggest splitting into History of the Oregon Trail and Route of the Oregon Trail, as those sections are the longest and the broadest topics, and leaving a concise summary of those topics in this article. Any other ideas, or is this what should be done? -- Jsayre64 (talk) 19:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The article is at 125 KB, which is in the 'almost certainly should be divided' range. It's also very hard to tell from the article what counts as the Oregon Trail what's just a trip out west. May I suggest that we focus our attention on the path west to the Platte, along the Platte, the North Platte, and the Sweetwater, through the South Pass, to the Green River, Snake River, and then into Oregon? An initial section can discuss Trail Blazers, and discuss Lewis and Clark's exploration of the Snake and the Columbia and talk about the impracticality of their path across the Rockies. The discussion of the Astorians should focus on Fort Astoria and Stuart's trip back. The discussion of the Northwest Company should focus on Forts Nez Perces, Vancouver, and Boise and omit Forts Colville and Victoria. And so on. Stuff that isn't directly relevant to that particular path should be omitted or curtailed. Beamish Son ( talk) 03:09, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The recommended amount of food to take for per adult was 150 pounds (68 kilograms) of flour, 20 pounds (9.1 kilograms) of corn meal, 50 pounds (23 kilograms) of bacon, 40 pounds (18 kilograms) of sugar, 10 pounds (4.5 kilograms) of coffee, 15 pounds (6.8 kilograms) of dried fruit, 5 pounds (2.3 kilograms) of salt, half a pound (0.25 kg) of saleratus ( baking powder/ baking soda leavening mix), 2 pounds (0.91 kilograms) of tea, 5 pounds (2.3 kilograms) of rice, and 15 pounds (6.8 kilograms) of beans. These provisions were usually kept in water-tight containers or barrels to minimize spoilage. The usual meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner along the trail was bacon, beans, and coffee, with biscuits or bread. [1] The typical cost of food for four people for six months was about $150. [2]
208.67.132.5 ( talk) 23:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
References
I believe I detect an error in the sentence "By 1836, when the first migrant wagon train was organized in Independence, Missouri, a wagon train had been cleared to Fort Hall, Idaho." My guess is that the second occurrence of the word "train" should actually be "trail." One would not clear a "wagon train," but one would clear a "wagon trail." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.54.143 ( talk) 03:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been searching all over to try to figure out how many people took part in westward expansion, but I can't seem to find statistics on this anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.109.8 ( talk) 14:16, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Fixed Main page updated and purged. — EncMstr ( talk) 17:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
A factoid of this article made the front page on Wikipedia today. Too bad there is a glaring error. These kinds of errors are what gives Wikipedia a bad name. :( The factoid states
I'm not here to debate the "major" part, but where it says "a thousand pioneers" has just GOT to be wrong. This article claims a significantly lower number as
I don't know how to change things on the front page, but I really hope we don't see this as trivia now at other sites because they read it here. I may x-post (yes, that's bad but hopefully someone can fix it today or now) this to the 1843 page. MagnoliaSouth ( talk) 15:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Elm Grove, Missouri redirects to this page, so the link on this page is circular.
Other than as the starting point for this one wagon train, I can find no reference to the location or existence of Elm Grove, Missouri. Kurtreedk ( talk) 20:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
To identify the overlinks, I used a script based on the guidelines at WP:OVERLINK. The script detected many duplicate links of various kinds, and I removed them a few at a time, section by section. I thought I should explain here what I did and how. The script is at User:Ucucha/duplinks and can be used to find duplicate links in any article. Finetooth ( talk) 19:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Reference 17 is an explanation - not a reference -- 92.74.51.243 ( talk) 22:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
The last sentence of the Colorado section is grammatically/syntactically incorrect, but I can't change it since I don't know what the (original) writer of the article meant by it. Does anyone else know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.104.85 ( talk) 11:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The use of the word "Indian" throughout this article is both unaccurate and unhelpful, in a scholarly sense. As is commonly known, a great deal of specific information is available on the domains and ranges of the dozens of tribes of North America, as are referenced in Wikipedia's own Native American's entry at Native Americans in the United States.
Using the correct names (and the cultural attributes) of these people would add measurably to the richness and accuracy of this entry.
As a start to cracking the wall of uniformity and error, I began a transition to identifying the specific tribes or nations encountered along the trail by replacing the generic and inaccurate word "Indian" with the phrase "indigenous people."
My work was immediately "reverted" by Richard Jensen (rjensen), in the style of someone fixing vandalism. Mr Jensen did not send me an explanation (a courtesy well within the Wiki protocol, methinks) and has not responded to my inquiry about his action.
I would like to work on the Oregon Trail entry; it can be much improved both by specifying the names of the cultural groups (in much the way the trappers, miners, farmers, ranchers, Mormons, etc., are already identified in the entry), by adding new information (the Whitmans were murdered at their Walla Walla mission by members of the Cayuse ( Whitman Mission National Historic Site), and by establishing more documentation (references) outside of Wikipedia.
I hestitate to do this work as rjensen appears to be standing ready to "revert" edits under cloak of darkness. I'd appreciate advice on how to handle this situation. The Oregon Trail entry deserves better. Hlwelborn ( talk) 21:34, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
In writing a family history that includes my great grandparents coming to Idaho partly on the Oregon Trail, I have found some information that I think may be incorrect, as follows:
The Wikipedia quoted “recommended” supply of food for an adult setting out on the Oregon Trail is shown in the table. This recommendation had to have been made by the merchant selling the supplies. The 313 lbs. sum of the recommended weighs does not include the weight of the containers. The containers would have had to be either wood or iron so the containers would add maybe 20% to the net weight of the food. That would bring the weight to 376 lb. for each adult. That’s more than three times the weight of a combat solder’s pack and weapon. Given that a pack horse’s load must be limited to about 30% of the horse’s weight, the horse to carry that pack of food would have to weigh more than 6000 lb. The Budweiser Clydesdales weigh about 2000 to 2200 lb. apiece.
Elsewhere in the article is a statement that a man could join a wagon train for no cost by helping with herding animals etc. I believe that my great grandfather and his three brothers did just that. I find it hard to believe that they would have been accepted if another wagon would have been required to haul the food they would consume on the trip.
Another indication that the weights are too high is that in a 100 day trip each person was expected to eat more than three pounds of these dry commodities. With water to cook added, that weight would be more in the seven lb. range, which I don't think is realistic.
I have no better information to provide but what's there would seem to need a credibility check. Antiquerookie ( talk) 06:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it's extremely problematic that the only mentions in this article of Native Americans/indigenous folks (see below) are when they have killed settlers?
It's completely one-sided and white-/Western-centric not to include how the westward expansion affected traditions, lands and lives of Native Americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tayloraapplegate ( talk • contribs) 19:45, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
>>Western scout Kit Carson reputedly said, “The cowards never started and the weak died on the way.”<< I don't write for Wikipedia, but someone should change this immediately. I've researched the quote and it's from Joaquin Miller, not Kit Carson. http://barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/cowards_never_start_the_weak_never_finish_winners_never_quit/ Barry ( talk) 16:24, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps I might bring the benefit of being an outsider? I am not a US citizen or descendant! But I was surprised not to find a brief section on Oregon Trail Literature - under Legacy for example. It seems it is taught in the USA - quite rightly, I suppose, in view of its historic importance. See for e.g. "Recommended Oregon Trail Books for Students- An Annotated Bibliography," which I quickly found using a well-known search engine. I would not presume to draft the proposed section, however - sorry but not in my realm of experience. Okan 12:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
An Annotated Bibliography
I don't see any mention of the Oregon Trail in Idaho following the geologic remains of the Yellowstone Hotspot, which had "flattened" out the landscape allowing a large portion of the trail to go over non-mountainous terrain. Just a neat historical comment that the six or so eruptions of the Yellowstone supervolcano over the past 16 million years "paved" the way for the settlers of the 1800's to transverse a relatively "easy" path.
Ted from Florida ( talk) 21:57, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
I've begun looking at the trail articles a bit closer as I'm looking to added a linking system; i.e., Before xxx , After xxx; in the articles along each trail. Two items I have a concern about.
The Oregon trail, this article, did not go through Iowa. Everything I've read shows that it started in Missouri (KC) then through Kansas to Nebraska. If a trail user entered the trail from Omaha or Nebraska City, they came independently up the Missouri River or overland. Anyways there is no Iowa linkage linkage on the Nat'l Historic Trail designation. The section reads solely as a history of Iowa, no trail mention. I recommend the section be removed.
Now, here is an Iowa link, the Mormon Pioneer Trail, does cross Iowa and there is an extensive section 'Mormon emigration' in the History Section. It's linked to the main article on Mormon emigration. The first paragraph is a recap of Mormon trail history, outside the preview of this article. It should be capsulized. The second paragraph implies that the Mormons traveled the California and Oregon Trail, where as the trails overlapped through Wyoming, the Mormons were not using these other trails, they had their own guides, supply processes, camping spots and it's only from Fort Laramie in Wyoming to Fort Bridger (Wyoming) that the routes overlapped. This material is well covered in the Mormon Trail article and should be reduced dramatically here. The last paragraph does add information about the non-Mormon users of the Oregon & California Trail.
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect The 6 non-parishable foods of the Oregon Trail and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 25#The 6 non-parishable foods of the Oregon Trail until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. House Blaster talk 22:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect The Oregon Trail (video game and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 27#The Oregon Trail (video game until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 ( talk) 19:14, 27 October 2022 (UTC)