![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I think the distinction here between main cast and recurring cast is problematic and I was wondering what was the rationale for this specific distinction. Did it come from an official list? Chrissy9876 ( talk) 14:25, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Was entirely too long. I shortened it significantly, removing all the labels and subdivisions among the recurring cast members. Please remember, wikipedia is not a an WP:INDISCRIMINATE list of information. The cast listed should not be the entire litany of every insignificant (and even unnamed) characters to ever appear in one episode. It should be significant only, there's no fixed number or cut-off per se but the explanation can be found at Wikipedia:CASTLIST:
"Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so it is encouraged to name the most relevant actors and roles with the most appropriate rule of thumb for the given film: billing, speaking roles, named roles, cast lists in reliable sources, blue links (in some cases), etc."
The version I edited had something like 30 or 40 names on it, so I reduced it accordingly. JesseRafe ( talk) 05:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
The article says that the show takes place at a prison in Litchfield, NY, which I believe to be a mistake. Litchfield, CT seems more likely to me as the town actually contains a former women's low-security prison, and is in the same state where Piper Kerman was imprisoned in real life. Can anyone find an authoritative source either way?
Rob ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:29, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I think that Litchfield, New York is a fictionalized location based on Danbury, Connecticut which was for females at the time. RichardBond ( talk) 07:12, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Just finished watching the first season of this and was wondering about the accuracy/authenticity of the show (as compared to Piper Kerman's actual account). Can we get some info on how similar the characters and stories in the show are to what's in her memoir? I mean, are all the characters based on real people? Were their names just changed, or are they fictional creations? I think we need a section dealing with this. -- Hibernian ( talk) 05:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
´:It's also kinda striking that in order to introduce a transpersón they had to make her look remarkably like Beyoncé, even through the character is only halfway through hormone treatment (which has been broken off when she went to the pen?), hasn't had any kind of surgery and has been through a rough stretch in life for a long time. Almost no SRS transwomen achieve that kind of ravishing look (many come off their operations fairly unattractive) and certainly not without a good deal of specialized make-up, a place in life encouraging self-confidence and physical training. To picture a halfway, pre-op TG sitting in jail and looking like Beyoncé (or Jackie Kennedy) is a bit like expecting to find leaves of a Gutenberg Bible at the local Salvation Army thrift shop. 83.254.149.58 ( talk) 20:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
And if not, should it be built out further here or in the Piper Kerman article? Thomas Craven ( talk) 21:18, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Why does the article refer to Piper as bisexual when she doesn't identify as such in the show? 86.25.93.238 ( talk) 22:20, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Why is the word 'is' capitalized in the title? I thought words like that were usually lower case. JDDJS ( talk) 23:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
The source for Jason Biggs' unknown status got their information from the Christian Post, which only runs on assumptions and not facts. As far as I'm concerned, he should still be listed as a main character in the cast listing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FB90:270E:ED62:1FFD:BC83:A9C2:FF20 ( talk) 20:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
Is it relevant to have information like this on the 'main cast'? As most of the recurring characters have became the main cast, and it says like the title of this next to their names. Does it matter? As it looks quite clunky at the moment. The "Main Cast" section can refer to cast/characters from the most current season and how they are cast, we don't need to reference how they were previously, except maybe like "Season 1 - present", or not at all. It looks quite clunky and messy at the moment with the copy/paste of it.
Shall we just delete that information, and just leave "main cast" being whatever main cast it is in the current season? It isn't really relevant at this time now, if they were or weren't before hand. We aren't going to be judged on it, as the information will be up to date to the current season. Charlr6 ( talk) 23:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
What do you guys think on this?
I believe that this is an issue that isn't really discussed. Many of the women in the show including Piper are doing exaggerated amounts of time in prison due to the War on Drugs. Like when Tasha was released and due to the demonizing system she didn't know how to go back to her normal life so she broke parole and was sent back to Litchfield. And in another case when Angie was given the once in a life time opportunity when MCC messed up the system and gave her an early release, she admittedly didn't know where to go. The war on drugs deeply affects these women socially to a point where they dont know how to live in the outside world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.12.243 ( talk) 01:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Normally I wouldn't add cast information for a series whose next season isn't premiering until the following year, but considering that the information is well-sourced ( [1] [2]), I don't see an issue for including what I added. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 23:49, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
@ BSCD128 and Drovethrughosts: Is the big table necessary in this article when the main list article is linked? I propose we move the table to the list article and present cast & character information in prose and/or a bullet list. Readers can click on the list article for a detailed list & table. Lapadite ( talk) 04:50, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
So Michelle Hurst hasn't appeared on the show or been credited in cast list since season 1 (character was sent to maximum security), and Biggs had not appeared on the show since season 2; he had a cameo in season 5. Shouldn't these two actors be under recurring instead of main cast? Lapadite ( talk) 05:59, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Can somebody tell me why "A new Emmy rule in 2015 forced the series to change categories from comedy to drama. [1] " is relevant to the lede? Why is Emmy ruling relevant in the lede for an article on a TV series? Also if you read the MOS guidelines you'll see that actually we generally don't source the lede anyway, the material will be sourced within the body. I detect some strong ownership issues surrounding some of these articles. Lapadite77, care to explain why this is really relevant?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:23, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
"Until this year, it was a show's prerogative to identify itself as a comedy or a drama. There was no specific governing board making those calls, which led to just about any fairly dramatic show with a handful of comedic elements competing in the comedy categories, where they were often quite successful. In 2014, the most notable beneficiary of this policy was Netflix's Orange Is the New Black ... The Academy ultimately decided that three of those hour-long shows — Glee, Jane the Virgin, and Shameless — could compete in the 2015 Emmys as comedies, while Orange Is the New Black must compete as a drama. But where the more outwardly silly Glee and Jane made more immediate sense as comedies, it's not clear why Shameless is a comedy and Orange Is the New Black is a drama, given that both shows boast fairly equal divides of both genres.")
You don't OWN the article Lapadite, why should I have to ask to edit? The lede does not need to be sourced. Have you never contributed a featured article? What relevance does discussing Emmy policy have to do with the series in the lede though? It's superfluous waffle. One of the biggest problems this site has is people who think they own popular articles. It means that so many of them fail to be improved because people act like bodyguards in blocking changes. You claim that this is the most watched TV series, but what makes Grantland.com and Hollywood Reporter a WP:Reliable source? HR is a notorious tabloid. Grantland.com. Do you really think these are respectable sources for such a huge claim? Find a proper reliable source for this claim. Can you find a more reputable sources from a more esteemed publisher to verify such a big claim? It's dubious information to me, supported by shoddy sources.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:02, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
OK, I've reworded it slightly and stuck to using a Variety source, is that agreeable to you?♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:35, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm mostly surprised I'm one of the biggest editors here when I've barely edited it. Reading the lede at the minute, I think the mention of the category change probably is not necessary. In it's current form it states it was forced to change, but without context, response or some attached notable controversy, I don't think this minor mention provides enough information. It is definitely something that should be mentioned and perhaps investigated deeper in the article to look at how it affected the awards success of the show, but I don't think it should be in the lede. At least not how it is at the moment. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 09:04, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
I notice that it's been labelled as a comedy-drama since 2013 so it's not some recent interpretation. Call me crazy but there's no chance no way that it's a comedy of any sort. Even if the initial Crazy Eyes scenes somehow qualified as comedy, which we could argue it wouldn't be enough to call the whole series a comedy. Slight Smile 13:46, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I think the distinction here between main cast and recurring cast is problematic and I was wondering what was the rationale for this specific distinction. Did it come from an official list? Chrissy9876 ( talk) 14:25, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Was entirely too long. I shortened it significantly, removing all the labels and subdivisions among the recurring cast members. Please remember, wikipedia is not a an WP:INDISCRIMINATE list of information. The cast listed should not be the entire litany of every insignificant (and even unnamed) characters to ever appear in one episode. It should be significant only, there's no fixed number or cut-off per se but the explanation can be found at Wikipedia:CASTLIST:
"Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so it is encouraged to name the most relevant actors and roles with the most appropriate rule of thumb for the given film: billing, speaking roles, named roles, cast lists in reliable sources, blue links (in some cases), etc."
The version I edited had something like 30 or 40 names on it, so I reduced it accordingly. JesseRafe ( talk) 05:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
The article says that the show takes place at a prison in Litchfield, NY, which I believe to be a mistake. Litchfield, CT seems more likely to me as the town actually contains a former women's low-security prison, and is in the same state where Piper Kerman was imprisoned in real life. Can anyone find an authoritative source either way?
Rob ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:29, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I think that Litchfield, New York is a fictionalized location based on Danbury, Connecticut which was for females at the time. RichardBond ( talk) 07:12, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Just finished watching the first season of this and was wondering about the accuracy/authenticity of the show (as compared to Piper Kerman's actual account). Can we get some info on how similar the characters and stories in the show are to what's in her memoir? I mean, are all the characters based on real people? Were their names just changed, or are they fictional creations? I think we need a section dealing with this. -- Hibernian ( talk) 05:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
´:It's also kinda striking that in order to introduce a transpersón they had to make her look remarkably like Beyoncé, even through the character is only halfway through hormone treatment (which has been broken off when she went to the pen?), hasn't had any kind of surgery and has been through a rough stretch in life for a long time. Almost no SRS transwomen achieve that kind of ravishing look (many come off their operations fairly unattractive) and certainly not without a good deal of specialized make-up, a place in life encouraging self-confidence and physical training. To picture a halfway, pre-op TG sitting in jail and looking like Beyoncé (or Jackie Kennedy) is a bit like expecting to find leaves of a Gutenberg Bible at the local Salvation Army thrift shop. 83.254.149.58 ( talk) 20:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
And if not, should it be built out further here or in the Piper Kerman article? Thomas Craven ( talk) 21:18, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Why does the article refer to Piper as bisexual when she doesn't identify as such in the show? 86.25.93.238 ( talk) 22:20, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Why is the word 'is' capitalized in the title? I thought words like that were usually lower case. JDDJS ( talk) 23:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
The source for Jason Biggs' unknown status got their information from the Christian Post, which only runs on assumptions and not facts. As far as I'm concerned, he should still be listed as a main character in the cast listing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FB90:270E:ED62:1FFD:BC83:A9C2:FF20 ( talk) 20:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
Is it relevant to have information like this on the 'main cast'? As most of the recurring characters have became the main cast, and it says like the title of this next to their names. Does it matter? As it looks quite clunky at the moment. The "Main Cast" section can refer to cast/characters from the most current season and how they are cast, we don't need to reference how they were previously, except maybe like "Season 1 - present", or not at all. It looks quite clunky and messy at the moment with the copy/paste of it.
Shall we just delete that information, and just leave "main cast" being whatever main cast it is in the current season? It isn't really relevant at this time now, if they were or weren't before hand. We aren't going to be judged on it, as the information will be up to date to the current season. Charlr6 ( talk) 23:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
What do you guys think on this?
I believe that this is an issue that isn't really discussed. Many of the women in the show including Piper are doing exaggerated amounts of time in prison due to the War on Drugs. Like when Tasha was released and due to the demonizing system she didn't know how to go back to her normal life so she broke parole and was sent back to Litchfield. And in another case when Angie was given the once in a life time opportunity when MCC messed up the system and gave her an early release, she admittedly didn't know where to go. The war on drugs deeply affects these women socially to a point where they dont know how to live in the outside world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.12.243 ( talk) 01:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Normally I wouldn't add cast information for a series whose next season isn't premiering until the following year, but considering that the information is well-sourced ( [1] [2]), I don't see an issue for including what I added. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 23:49, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
@ BSCD128 and Drovethrughosts: Is the big table necessary in this article when the main list article is linked? I propose we move the table to the list article and present cast & character information in prose and/or a bullet list. Readers can click on the list article for a detailed list & table. Lapadite ( talk) 04:50, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
So Michelle Hurst hasn't appeared on the show or been credited in cast list since season 1 (character was sent to maximum security), and Biggs had not appeared on the show since season 2; he had a cameo in season 5. Shouldn't these two actors be under recurring instead of main cast? Lapadite ( talk) 05:59, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Can somebody tell me why "A new Emmy rule in 2015 forced the series to change categories from comedy to drama. [1] " is relevant to the lede? Why is Emmy ruling relevant in the lede for an article on a TV series? Also if you read the MOS guidelines you'll see that actually we generally don't source the lede anyway, the material will be sourced within the body. I detect some strong ownership issues surrounding some of these articles. Lapadite77, care to explain why this is really relevant?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:23, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
"Until this year, it was a show's prerogative to identify itself as a comedy or a drama. There was no specific governing board making those calls, which led to just about any fairly dramatic show with a handful of comedic elements competing in the comedy categories, where they were often quite successful. In 2014, the most notable beneficiary of this policy was Netflix's Orange Is the New Black ... The Academy ultimately decided that three of those hour-long shows — Glee, Jane the Virgin, and Shameless — could compete in the 2015 Emmys as comedies, while Orange Is the New Black must compete as a drama. But where the more outwardly silly Glee and Jane made more immediate sense as comedies, it's not clear why Shameless is a comedy and Orange Is the New Black is a drama, given that both shows boast fairly equal divides of both genres.")
You don't OWN the article Lapadite, why should I have to ask to edit? The lede does not need to be sourced. Have you never contributed a featured article? What relevance does discussing Emmy policy have to do with the series in the lede though? It's superfluous waffle. One of the biggest problems this site has is people who think they own popular articles. It means that so many of them fail to be improved because people act like bodyguards in blocking changes. You claim that this is the most watched TV series, but what makes Grantland.com and Hollywood Reporter a WP:Reliable source? HR is a notorious tabloid. Grantland.com. Do you really think these are respectable sources for such a huge claim? Find a proper reliable source for this claim. Can you find a more reputable sources from a more esteemed publisher to verify such a big claim? It's dubious information to me, supported by shoddy sources.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:02, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
OK, I've reworded it slightly and stuck to using a Variety source, is that agreeable to you?♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:35, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm mostly surprised I'm one of the biggest editors here when I've barely edited it. Reading the lede at the minute, I think the mention of the category change probably is not necessary. In it's current form it states it was forced to change, but without context, response or some attached notable controversy, I don't think this minor mention provides enough information. It is definitely something that should be mentioned and perhaps investigated deeper in the article to look at how it affected the awards success of the show, but I don't think it should be in the lede. At least not how it is at the moment. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 09:04, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
I notice that it's been labelled as a comedy-drama since 2013 so it's not some recent interpretation. Call me crazy but there's no chance no way that it's a comedy of any sort. Even if the initial Crazy Eyes scenes somehow qualified as comedy, which we could argue it wouldn't be enough to call the whole series a comedy. Slight Smile 13:46, 21 November 2016 (UTC)