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From Votes for Deletion
What is that doing here? Axeman89 17:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
An interesting note on Oral Roberts is he is of Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma descent, his mother being 1/4.
Yes, it is important because there was a big christian revival among the Cherokee of Oklahoma and that background is important to understand his later theology. Kenneth Copeland is also third generation from the big Oklahoma revival and also part native American.
I saw this on http://www.cherokeecommunityofcentralcalifornia.org/
"Oral Roberts, twentieth century evangelist and founder of Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, is a card-carrying member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, but many say he is also Cherokee."
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.26.96 ( talk) 03:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
http://www.cherokeecommunityofcentralcalifornia.org is a ten-year-old site without any references to back up the statement. 'Many say' is not fact but folklore and hearsay perhaps only a repetition of what Oral Roberts himself said. If he was a "card-carrying" member of the Choctaw, shouldn't there be a citation from their site, backing this up or a published article? This is an unsubstantiated claim without any proof, meaning a scholarly source or a credible article to prove it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Professorclee (
talk •
contribs)
16:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- There are various claims on the internet that Oral Roberts was both a "card-carrying member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma" and "of Cherokee descent", but neither claim seems to be verified. Neither of his parents are listed on the Dawes Rolls. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 22:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
A warning to all readers is that the external link "cephasministry.com" is arguably an anti-Charismatic/Pentacostal website. Oral Roberts and other healing evangelists are respected ministers among Charismatic and non-Charismatic evangelicals alike!
I beg to differ - greatly. Oral Roberts and many other well-known charismatic and pentecostal teachers (eg Benny Hinn, Rick Joyner) have been criticized quite heavily from non-Charismatic Christians. -- One Salient Oversight 06:33, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
While this is true, it is not such acrosss the board. There are many non-Charismatic evangelicals who support these ministries. My main point above is that the "cephasministry" website is anti-Charismatic in its views. The Charismatic Christian community is not some fringe group. It is a major sector of the evangelical Christian community that is growing every day.
You people have no right to judge the legitamacy of Oral Roberts. Keep objectivity, ok? -- Okiefromokla 15:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
We have a right to judge, but not to edit. Our right to judge comes with our membership in the human race, our right to edit is limited by objectivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.26.117.1 ( talk) 23:21, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
While it might be nice if Oral had scrupulously credited God with raising the dead each time he talked about it, the fact seems to be that he actually did say he (Oral) raised the dead. ("I had to stop and go back in the crowd and raise the dead person so I could go ahead with the service.") It's not for us to clean up what he said so it seems doctrinally sound. I think there's some question over whether God wanted $8 million for "sending medical missionaries to Africa" or to "pay Oral Robert's medical school for the training of physicians, ostensibly to be used as missionaries in Africa." - Nunh-huh 01:58, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
TULSA, Okla. – Evangelist Oral Roberts, whose plea for $8 million to save his life focused attention on his ministry earlier this year, said this week he has raised the dead and will return after his own death to rule alongside Jesus Christ.
Roberts’ comments, made to about 5,000 people at the closing session of the three-day Charismatic Bible Ministries Conference on Thursday, were broadcast nationally Friday on his son’s "Richard Roberts Live" program.
Richard Roberts acknowledged his father’s statements were sure to arouse controversy. He held up a newspaper with a headline about Oral Roberts’ claims.
"The good news is, they're printing the truth," Richard Roberts said. "I’m so glad the newspapers are beginning to get the story right..."
The elder Roberts, whose 40-year ministry originated with tent revivals in which the sick came to be healed, told his fellow ministers Thursday he also has brought the dead back to life.
"All of us in the ministry could talk about that—of certain dead ones raised, died right while I was preaching," Roberts said. "I had to stop and go back in the crowd and raise the dead person so I could go ahead with the service.
"That did increase my altar call (audience response) that night," Roberts said, drawing laughter from the crowd at Oral Roberts University’s Mabee Center.
On his program Friday, Richard Roberts said be recalled one instance in his boyhood when he said a dead child was brought back to life by his father.
"Right in the middle of my dad’s sermon a woman came running up to the platform with her baby in her arms screaming ‘My baby has just died,’" Richard Roberts said.
"The child had died during the service. My dad had to stop in the middle of his sermon and lay hands on that child. And that child came back to life again.
"There are probably dozens and dozens and dozen of documented instances of people who have been raised from the dead," Richard Roberts said after he and guests on the program recounted stories about the dead being revived…
[Oral] Roberts has criticized media coverage of his request for money to fund medical missionary scholarships at ORU. In March 1986, he said God told him to raise $8 million from followers or his life would be forfeited by the end of March 1987…
On April 1, Roberts announced that the money had been raised and that his life had been spared.
Your taking these quotes out of context and forgetting that these were directed at an audience who understood what he meant. Please leave the content of these articles to those who have a better understanding of the facts and doctrines of these Christian leaders, not the liberal media.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing. His ministry has been in existance since 1947 and is still going strong. If it was truly fraudulent, you'd think the authorities would have done something about it by now.
While on the subject of editing; it should be clarified that Oral Roberts did not gradute from OBU, while he did attend their for a semester and serve as an assistant basketball coach there he did not gradute and does not have any sort of degree from OBU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.101.77 ( talk) 18:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I would like to discuss the statements listed in the talk section stating that Oral Roberts believes that he heals and has raised the dead of his own accord. Just because he said he had to "raise the dead person", doesn't mean he believes he has that power. That line of reasoning is a straw man. Quoting DIRECTLY from Dr. Roberts' book "If You Need Healing, Do These Things" (copyright 2002: Richard and Lindsay Roberts):
"I cannot insist too strongly that you put your faith in God. Have confidence in His servant or prophet, but put your faith in Almighty God, not man. The person God has chosen to help you receive healing is an instrument only -- the means to an end. Your deliverance is by faith in God and His power...God, not the prophet or preacher, is the Healer." (pp. 43-44)
When Oral Roberts said that he had to "raise the dead person", he was saying that to people who knew what he meant. That being that he had to pray for the person to be raised from the dead. Since his audience knew he meant this, it was merely a short-hand way of saying "I had to pray that God would raise the dead person by the power of the Holy Spirit, but it has nothing to do with me." If he said that every time he discussed a miracle, it would be very cumbersome. The majority of his audience KNOWS he doesn't believe he has the power to heal.
Also, there was at one point a statement in the article stating that Oral Roberts believed he was going to "rule with Christ after his death". Of course he believes this! All evangelicals that believe in the rapture, tribulation, and millenium do. In Revelation 5:9-10, it says, "And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth"(NKJV). Therefore, a doctrine believed by many Charismatics and Evangelicals is that after the tribulation, all those who believed in Jesus Christ as Savior will return with Him to reign during the Millenium.
I hope this clarifies some things...the above quotation was "straight from the horse's mouth". Therefore, it should be presented as such in the Wikipedia article.
OK, well that's your opinion, but if all you can give me is "evidence" for that originating from people who have an anti-Charismatic viewpoint (such as the "Cephas Ministry" website), all you are giving me is your opinion. Those people are coming from the basic assumption that it is false in the first place. In other words, they are saying "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up". There is more evidence FOR the validity of Oral Roberts' ministry than for the lack of validity of it. I know several people who have received a healing from God through the ministry of the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association. If you want to discuss prophecies, how about the prophecy given by brother Roberts in the '50s stating that man would not destroy himself through nuclear weaponry in the Cold War. How about how he recieved a prophecy from God predicting the AIDS epidemic, before it was even discovered. That is beside the point. The point is that Christ said that "by their fruits, you will know them" (Matt. 7:20 NKJV). The ministry founded by Oral Roberts has existed since the aftermath of World War II. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached by them...the message that eternal life comes only through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They have a 24/7 prayer ministry that anyone can call into for prayer for salvation, healing, and deliverance (and they don't have to give money to be prayed for). He founded a University that opens classes with prayer and requires students to live by an honor code, as well as requiring them to go to the church of their choice every sunday. This school was rated the best in its region by The Princeton Review and U.S. News and World Report (see http://www.oru.edu/news/newsarc_20040824.htm). So, look at the fruits. Just because the City of Faith failed, does not mean it was not in the plan of God to build. God's original plan for mankind was not for it to fall into sin and corruption, yet it did. It takes money to operate a medical school/center. That has to be provided through the hands of men, it will not fall out of Heaven.
Also, as a believer who attends a Charismatic church, let me clarify to you that we believe that anyone can pray with someone to believe for their healing...not only leaders of large ministries. The person who needs the healing can pray for themselves as well. We believe, however, that part of the office of the evangelist is praying for the sick to recover. However, just like Jesus said in Mark 16:14-18, all believers are to preach the Gospel...and also..."they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover" (NKJV). I offer these facts to you out of respect for you as a fellow believer. God BLESS you...I appreciate the fact that you have been preaching God's Word!
Ok, now I believe you have misunderstood ME...I never said God didn't know the future, God is not bounded by time...that has nothing to do with the success or failure of the City of Faith. Many good churches with pastors who are called of God (of EVERY denomonation...not only Charismatic) have closed their doors...lack of MONEY, lack of PEOPLE...I have seen it first hand. Now, would you say that EVERY church that has closed its doors due to these elements was not called of God and was out of God's plan...NO. Same thing with individual people, when they end up leaving the church, this does not mean God did not have a plan for thier lives, circumstances and the gift of free will lead to that. Now, I know some people believe that they were never saved in the first place, but that is another issue that I will not discuss here. The issue here is NOT the sovereignty of God (which He the is TOTALLY omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient...LORD of all! I believe this with my whole heart). That is a red herring. The issue is the free will of man and the fallen state of God's creation. It was God's sovereign plan for a medical center to be built that not only treats the physical and mental ills of people, but the spiritual ills as well. Why would this NOT be in God's plan? However, it failed due to the same reasons good churches of all denomonations fail...lack of MONEY, lack of PEOPLE. I see a terrible double-standard being held by the critics of Charismatic Christians and ministries. They attack the ministers for trying to raise money for their projects, and then when their projects fail, they attack them for "being a false prophet". Instead of spending their time trying to discount "heretics", these people should stop majoring in minors and focus on the Great Commission. THIS is what matters, let God deal with heretics! All our job is is to preach the Gospel and serve God. Like the Westminster Catechism says..."What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever." I have been in both Conservative and Charismatic churches, and still continue to have exposure to both, and I do not see any major difference in their theology. The major difference I see is that Conservative churches do not believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today and they believe that God doesn't heal everybody. If you look at any of the major Charismatic organizations' doctrinal statements, the first points are always the sovereignty of God, the Trinity, the fall and redemtion of man, the deity of Christ, the infallability of Scripture, etc. Here are a few examples of some Charismatic doctrinal statements:
So, I want to end by saying...let's keep the MAIN thing the MAIN thing and work TOGETHER to reach the lost! Also, I want to say it is OK to talk about making sure the "scandals" are presented in the article...but what about mentioning all the good things about him too? Yes, there are many! I present this repsectfully.
P.S.: I apologize for the hunting you had to do with that link. ORU's page says it is listed by the Princeton Review as one of the best schools in the West and if you go to this link you will see them listed (they have broken up the list by state). ORU's news release ALSO says that they were rated in the top 50 schools in the Masters-West category. They still have been recognized by these organizations (The Princeton Review is a well-respected academic services organization...they have college test-prep and college stats...I don't think they should rate "beer drinking" or "marajuana use", etc. either...I graduated from a CONSERVATIVE Christian High School that used them for test prep.). ORU has a right to notify people about the fact that they were given good ratings.
I apologize for my delay in writing...I have been extremely busy these past few days. I will be happy to look through your articles to make sure your information is valid. I will research what you told me about Ted Haggard (I am not familiar with C. Peter Wagner). I'll let you know what I find. Also, I can tell you as a fact that Benny Hinn does not believe there are 9 persons in the godhead. I don't know where you saw that, but that is not valid...for example, here is the excerpt from the statement of faith on his website:
I am certain he is a believer...if you have ever attended one of his crusades, you know that he gives a Biblical Gospel message, the delivery is quite similar to that of other great Conservative evangelists. If you want to see the Gospel message given on Benny Hinn's website, click here. I look forward to your response.
P.S.: Thanks for the "unusual article" link! There were some strange things on that!
Moved an anon.'s witness from article. The scripture references may have some use to this article's group of editors.
WBardwin 10:48, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I marked this article for possible POV problems. The changes made today by 70.244.230.204 provide an overly-positive view of Oral Roberts, with sentences like "This was the largest health facility of its kind in the world, and sought to merged together the healing streams of prayer and medicine as God had revealed it to Oral Roberts." This is language straight from the ministry. We don't know if God revealed it to Oral or not. At the same time, the previous version of the article was a brief biography followed by a list of criticisms. I think we need something in between the two approaches. -- Beirne 16:10, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
I think the article should include the 1987 incident in which Oral Roberts said that God would "call him home" unless a certain sum was raised. This is surely one of the most memorable and referenced events in the history of the Oral Roberts ministry.
It is surely more memorable and distinctive than the 2004 "wake-up call".
Any knowledgable volunteers? Or suggestions for references? Phiwum 18:25, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
The recent edits to this article have turned it from an account of Mr Roberts into an attempt to preach to the majority of our readers who are not christians. Therefore I have tagged the article as not having a neutral point of view any more.
This tag can be lifted, but that should only be done when the text no longer reads like an advertisement for Mr Roberts and his businesses and instead starts to look like an entry in an encyclopedia.
If anyone editing here has any questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page and I'll be happy to help out. Thanks. ➨ ❝ REDVERS ❞ 19:38, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I see the article has been marked for cleanup. Could someone elaborate on what needs to be cleaned up? It's not a great article but a little direction would help. The reasons should be listed on the Wikipedia:Cleanup page and here on the talk page. -- Beirne 11:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Unless I missed it, the article does not answer the question of who he received the much joked-about nickname "Oral"? It seems like an obvious point this article should cover. Peter G Werner 18:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit suggests that Ronald Robert committed suicide because he was a homosexual. The citation is alternet.org. It is not at all obvious to me that this is a reliable source and I tend to think that this gossip and speculation should be removed. Comments? Phiwum 01:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
The original article had a gross inaccuracy, and I corrected it. The original article said his two surviving children were Richard and Rebecca. Richard is still around, of course, but it is Oral and Evelyn's other daughter, Roberta Potts, who is still alive. Rebecca Nash is the one who died in a plane crash years ago. (You can find the information at the official Oral Roberts webpage if you're interested.) Contributors to Wikipedia need to be a lot more careful and not make egregious errors like this one.--Susan Nunes, April 15, 2007
Thank you for contributing this article to the wiki. As you are aware, many people from all sorts of backgrounds and beliefs come to wikipedia for the facts, hopefully free of opinion and bias. You have a good start in this article but I would like to point out a few things which need attention. Improving this article to be more neutral and based in fact will improve the credibility of your cause. Please consider my notes. -Explain significance of Cherokee link to Christianity and/or Oklahoma history as you had mentioned, with a citation if needed. -A citation would be a good idea with regards to the number of books he has supposedly written -The term 'Healing Crusade' should be re-considered. Is it the actual name he used when referring to these journeys? If not, the term is a bit biased and certainly not common knowledge. I would consider using quotations to reflect that this is indeed the proper term used by Oral, explain the origin of the term, or replace it with something less sensational. -Please consider citing this article more thoroughly, especially around statements of fact, such as referring to '...thousands of people[..] in the healing line', links to the supposed testimony of doctors, the honor code associated with his school, etc. -City of Faith is a title, rather than a commonly used term if I am reading this correctly, you may consier annotating it as such. Again, to people who are not of your faith, nonchalantly referring to something as a City of Faith seems sensational unless there was a commonly understood term by that name with an already implied definition. -A citation on the claim of largest medical facility of its kind and dates of operation would add veracity to your article.
A good article with lots of good work, I hope a few of these suggestions can make it even better! When writing articles, thinking of everyone's point of view makes for a better read, and makes you look good in the process! Regards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Defiance167 ( talk • contribs) 18:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC).
This article is missing a key element, namely the influence of the Methodist tradition on his ministry and within the university ... particularly in the 1960s and 1970s. The Roberts family were members of one or more Methodist / United Methodist congregations (First UMC and Will Rogers UMC, to name a couple) in Tulsa during that time, leaving the UMC sometime in the late 1980s. This association was very influencial upon ORU students and graduates of the day. Someone more knowledgeable than me can provide more detailed information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.18.46 ( talk) 02:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone please add that O.R. was a member of the mainline United Methodist Church since 1968. See his obit at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121503225.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.126.62 ( talk) 18:40, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
All kidding aside, according to the biography Oral Roberts: An American Life (p.26), his birth name was Granville Oral Roberts, Granville being a family name and Oral being a name made up by his cousin, who later claimed she just liked the sound and didn't think she'd even heard the word before. [1] Since 23 December 2008, this article has apparently stated that his name is "Granville Richard James Oral Roberts III". I find no other source for this name at all, and it was added here by IP editor 72.204.4.71, who more recently made a similar, and more obviously spurious, change to Roberts' name. That edit was reverted immediately but the original "Richard James" edit from 23 December 2008 remained. I have now reverted it.-- Arxiloxos ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Or is the vandalism low level enough to simply deal with it? KillerChihuahua ?!? Advice 22:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Considering his importance in the field of televangelism, it is incredible that there are so few images of this man, let alone free ones. Burpelson AFB ( talk) 04:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
In the early 1940's, Mr. Roberts conducted tent revivals/healing meetings in and around Tulsa, Oklahoma, often accompanied by evangelist Steve Pringle and Church of the Nazarene preacher Jo Ella Oliver.
(Miss Oliver later became Jo Ella Herron, my mother.)
Thanks,
Rick Herron —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickh1977 ( talk • contribs) 13:57, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
This talk page is meant for improving the article (with reliable/verifiable sources), it's not a forum for personal views on the topic. Hence, comments here about Roberts are almost worthless unless they either cite new sources, or cite sources already in the article along with thoughts on how to deal with those sources. Moreover, the policy on living persons applies to Roberts' living family members and there is also a long standing consensus that BLP tends to apply to en.Wikipedia articles about the lately deceased. Otherwise unpublished recollections from folks who knew Roberts are original research and can't be put in the article. Either way, verifiable published sources must be cited. Gwen Gale ( talk) 16:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
What kind of name is Oral? Is it short for something? 99.53.169.167 ( talk) 17:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Cindy Jane
so what was he up to between 1941 and 1945? Consicering he would have been 23 when Pearl Harbor was bombed he would have been just the right age to participate in WWII. Anybody know how he spent those years? 66.134.170.155 ( talk) 13:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning this? [2]
"Only one organ made to bring forth life—it's the male organ. It's not in lesbianism for the tongue of a female goes into the vagina of another female. It's not in the male where the male organ goes into the part of the, of the body where the, the waste matter comes out of the body, the poison, and he penetrates that part of the body in homosexuality. It's not to be put into the mouth of the man, or the mouth of the man or the woman on the male organ! It is the male organ penetrating the vagina of the woman—the male and the female!..."
It certainly is. Religiously motivated control of peoples' sex lives is rampant in the U.S. and this guy represents a strong advocate for such control. It's the only reason I've heard of him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.183.54.102 ( talk) 20:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
I am somewhat surprised that this article contains no paragraph about all the criticism Oral Roberts has faced throughout the years. There have been several scandals surrounding his person and his activities and many of his religious views have been heavily criticized by Christians and non-Christians alike. At the very least I would think that some of those points should be reflected in the article. -- Hadoriel ( talk) 11:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I see the statement that Oral's impact was 2nd to Billy Graham's. I had removed this because while it was said by an expert, it is a subjective opinion. Even the expert is hedging, saying that it will take the long run to see the impact. There is no easy way to quantify this kind of impact, so this is really just an opinion, no more valid than if someone said Oral was the 2nd worst televangelist. It is good for the article to describe Oral's impact, but this statement doesn't mean much. -- Beirne ( talk) 18:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Using the Olympics as a precedent for how many, the top three deserve comparison and recognition. I disagree with you deleting the statement without building a consensus in this talk page. There was already a tacit consensus by the fact that 64 watchers let the statement stand for 23 consecutive days. Obankston ( talk) 04:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Choose which form of attribution you want, and I'll insert the statement with citation in the section →Ministry and university:
Obankston ( talk) 07:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I added a clarification tag to the statement that Oral laid the foundation for abundant life. It is obviously something he promoted, but I think technically Jesus laid the foundation for abundant life. Could someone who understands this better clarify this? -- Beirne ( talk) 23:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
There is an article stub for abundant life. There have been some discussions on improving this article at Talk:Abundant Life. While working on the Oral Roberts article, I used this article stub as a holding place for some material related to the Oral Roberts article but did not belong there. Unfortunately, writing new articles is not my strong point, so I am hoping that someone else will pick this up. The concepts Word of Faith, Prosperity Gospel, Health and Wealth Gospel, and Abundant Life are closely related, but not identical. The four articles are interlinked, and there is activity on the first three. Obankston ( talk) 02:49, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph says: "...he became embroiled in controversies and criticism from both Christians and non-Christians alike, particularly around the personal wealth that he accumulated from donations." While his personal wealth was an issue, I thought the bigger controversies were the 900-foot Jesus and saying God would call him home if people didn't donate enough. Also, some sources for the criticism should be referenced, especially for the Christian part. I know it is true but but that part of the statement is a bit vague. -- Beirne ( talk) 14:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The vagueness in the intro is a summary to the details that follow in the body of the article, not a place for statistics or definitions. It is subjective which controversy is the biggest, different people have different complaints. My biggest complaint and the complaints of people I knew at the time it happened are irrelevant to the article. My proposal is to replace the entire sentence.
Change from:
Change to (option #1, using quote):
Change to (option #2, rewording quote):
Obankston ( talk) 05:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I ask that the following sentence be deleted from the article because it does not quote any reference to substantiate what it claims.
"Scandals persisted through the 1980s as fraudulent healing practices were exposed." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.28.164.2 ( talk) 21:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Even someone not familiar with the guy can see it reads like an advertisement. The most POV bit is right at the end where it basically reads like an apologists section. This article isn't balanced, and certainly isn't NPOV. And to those who wrote earlier in the talk page such gems as.
"You people have no right to judge the legitamacy of Oral Roberts. Keep objectivity, ok?"
Objectivity is not using sites financed by this mans ministries as sources, or links.
"Your taking these quotes out of context and forgetting that these were directed at an audience who understood what he meant. Please leave the content of these articles to those who have a better understanding of the facts and doctrines of these Christian leaders, not the liberal media"
This is an encylopedia.. the whole point of it is that people reading it who don't know anything about a given subject may get an unbiased view ie NPOV, so leaving it's content to "those who have a better understanding", i.e. Fanboys who won't have a bad thing said against their chosen religious leader, is not a good idea at all.
This article isn't just a joke, it's a disgrace — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.69.7.114 ( talk) 07:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree this article is a JOKE, Roberts was a known con man. Whoever is editing this article wants to make a con man look like a lovely christian minister. Sellingstuff ( talk) 15:16, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
http://thegazette.com/2009/12/20/oral-roberts-nothing-more-than-a-con-artist
We have a media article now using that term, can you please add to the opening statement something with the term "con man" (because he was this is the default position not the one you are taking) and source that link? Thanks Sellingstuff ( talk) 07:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I deleted a reference attached to a sentence in the header. I searched for various words used *in* the sentence, in the reference and found none of them. Please attach references to the exact sections they encase, and use *quotes* to indicate what is being exactly said. Wjhonson ( talk) 16:10, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
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From Votes for Deletion
What is that doing here? Axeman89 17:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
An interesting note on Oral Roberts is he is of Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma descent, his mother being 1/4.
Yes, it is important because there was a big christian revival among the Cherokee of Oklahoma and that background is important to understand his later theology. Kenneth Copeland is also third generation from the big Oklahoma revival and also part native American.
I saw this on http://www.cherokeecommunityofcentralcalifornia.org/
"Oral Roberts, twentieth century evangelist and founder of Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, is a card-carrying member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, but many say he is also Cherokee."
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.26.96 ( talk) 03:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
http://www.cherokeecommunityofcentralcalifornia.org is a ten-year-old site without any references to back up the statement. 'Many say' is not fact but folklore and hearsay perhaps only a repetition of what Oral Roberts himself said. If he was a "card-carrying" member of the Choctaw, shouldn't there be a citation from their site, backing this up or a published article? This is an unsubstantiated claim without any proof, meaning a scholarly source or a credible article to prove it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Professorclee (
talk •
contribs)
16:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- There are various claims on the internet that Oral Roberts was both a "card-carrying member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma" and "of Cherokee descent", but neither claim seems to be verified. Neither of his parents are listed on the Dawes Rolls. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 22:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
A warning to all readers is that the external link "cephasministry.com" is arguably an anti-Charismatic/Pentacostal website. Oral Roberts and other healing evangelists are respected ministers among Charismatic and non-Charismatic evangelicals alike!
I beg to differ - greatly. Oral Roberts and many other well-known charismatic and pentecostal teachers (eg Benny Hinn, Rick Joyner) have been criticized quite heavily from non-Charismatic Christians. -- One Salient Oversight 06:33, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
While this is true, it is not such acrosss the board. There are many non-Charismatic evangelicals who support these ministries. My main point above is that the "cephasministry" website is anti-Charismatic in its views. The Charismatic Christian community is not some fringe group. It is a major sector of the evangelical Christian community that is growing every day.
You people have no right to judge the legitamacy of Oral Roberts. Keep objectivity, ok? -- Okiefromokla 15:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
We have a right to judge, but not to edit. Our right to judge comes with our membership in the human race, our right to edit is limited by objectivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.26.117.1 ( talk) 23:21, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
While it might be nice if Oral had scrupulously credited God with raising the dead each time he talked about it, the fact seems to be that he actually did say he (Oral) raised the dead. ("I had to stop and go back in the crowd and raise the dead person so I could go ahead with the service.") It's not for us to clean up what he said so it seems doctrinally sound. I think there's some question over whether God wanted $8 million for "sending medical missionaries to Africa" or to "pay Oral Robert's medical school for the training of physicians, ostensibly to be used as missionaries in Africa." - Nunh-huh 01:58, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
TULSA, Okla. – Evangelist Oral Roberts, whose plea for $8 million to save his life focused attention on his ministry earlier this year, said this week he has raised the dead and will return after his own death to rule alongside Jesus Christ.
Roberts’ comments, made to about 5,000 people at the closing session of the three-day Charismatic Bible Ministries Conference on Thursday, were broadcast nationally Friday on his son’s "Richard Roberts Live" program.
Richard Roberts acknowledged his father’s statements were sure to arouse controversy. He held up a newspaper with a headline about Oral Roberts’ claims.
"The good news is, they're printing the truth," Richard Roberts said. "I’m so glad the newspapers are beginning to get the story right..."
The elder Roberts, whose 40-year ministry originated with tent revivals in which the sick came to be healed, told his fellow ministers Thursday he also has brought the dead back to life.
"All of us in the ministry could talk about that—of certain dead ones raised, died right while I was preaching," Roberts said. "I had to stop and go back in the crowd and raise the dead person so I could go ahead with the service.
"That did increase my altar call (audience response) that night," Roberts said, drawing laughter from the crowd at Oral Roberts University’s Mabee Center.
On his program Friday, Richard Roberts said be recalled one instance in his boyhood when he said a dead child was brought back to life by his father.
"Right in the middle of my dad’s sermon a woman came running up to the platform with her baby in her arms screaming ‘My baby has just died,’" Richard Roberts said.
"The child had died during the service. My dad had to stop in the middle of his sermon and lay hands on that child. And that child came back to life again.
"There are probably dozens and dozens and dozen of documented instances of people who have been raised from the dead," Richard Roberts said after he and guests on the program recounted stories about the dead being revived…
[Oral] Roberts has criticized media coverage of his request for money to fund medical missionary scholarships at ORU. In March 1986, he said God told him to raise $8 million from followers or his life would be forfeited by the end of March 1987…
On April 1, Roberts announced that the money had been raised and that his life had been spared.
Your taking these quotes out of context and forgetting that these were directed at an audience who understood what he meant. Please leave the content of these articles to those who have a better understanding of the facts and doctrines of these Christian leaders, not the liberal media.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing. His ministry has been in existance since 1947 and is still going strong. If it was truly fraudulent, you'd think the authorities would have done something about it by now.
While on the subject of editing; it should be clarified that Oral Roberts did not gradute from OBU, while he did attend their for a semester and serve as an assistant basketball coach there he did not gradute and does not have any sort of degree from OBU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.101.77 ( talk) 18:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I would like to discuss the statements listed in the talk section stating that Oral Roberts believes that he heals and has raised the dead of his own accord. Just because he said he had to "raise the dead person", doesn't mean he believes he has that power. That line of reasoning is a straw man. Quoting DIRECTLY from Dr. Roberts' book "If You Need Healing, Do These Things" (copyright 2002: Richard and Lindsay Roberts):
"I cannot insist too strongly that you put your faith in God. Have confidence in His servant or prophet, but put your faith in Almighty God, not man. The person God has chosen to help you receive healing is an instrument only -- the means to an end. Your deliverance is by faith in God and His power...God, not the prophet or preacher, is the Healer." (pp. 43-44)
When Oral Roberts said that he had to "raise the dead person", he was saying that to people who knew what he meant. That being that he had to pray for the person to be raised from the dead. Since his audience knew he meant this, it was merely a short-hand way of saying "I had to pray that God would raise the dead person by the power of the Holy Spirit, but it has nothing to do with me." If he said that every time he discussed a miracle, it would be very cumbersome. The majority of his audience KNOWS he doesn't believe he has the power to heal.
Also, there was at one point a statement in the article stating that Oral Roberts believed he was going to "rule with Christ after his death". Of course he believes this! All evangelicals that believe in the rapture, tribulation, and millenium do. In Revelation 5:9-10, it says, "And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth"(NKJV). Therefore, a doctrine believed by many Charismatics and Evangelicals is that after the tribulation, all those who believed in Jesus Christ as Savior will return with Him to reign during the Millenium.
I hope this clarifies some things...the above quotation was "straight from the horse's mouth". Therefore, it should be presented as such in the Wikipedia article.
OK, well that's your opinion, but if all you can give me is "evidence" for that originating from people who have an anti-Charismatic viewpoint (such as the "Cephas Ministry" website), all you are giving me is your opinion. Those people are coming from the basic assumption that it is false in the first place. In other words, they are saying "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up". There is more evidence FOR the validity of Oral Roberts' ministry than for the lack of validity of it. I know several people who have received a healing from God through the ministry of the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association. If you want to discuss prophecies, how about the prophecy given by brother Roberts in the '50s stating that man would not destroy himself through nuclear weaponry in the Cold War. How about how he recieved a prophecy from God predicting the AIDS epidemic, before it was even discovered. That is beside the point. The point is that Christ said that "by their fruits, you will know them" (Matt. 7:20 NKJV). The ministry founded by Oral Roberts has existed since the aftermath of World War II. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached by them...the message that eternal life comes only through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They have a 24/7 prayer ministry that anyone can call into for prayer for salvation, healing, and deliverance (and they don't have to give money to be prayed for). He founded a University that opens classes with prayer and requires students to live by an honor code, as well as requiring them to go to the church of their choice every sunday. This school was rated the best in its region by The Princeton Review and U.S. News and World Report (see http://www.oru.edu/news/newsarc_20040824.htm). So, look at the fruits. Just because the City of Faith failed, does not mean it was not in the plan of God to build. God's original plan for mankind was not for it to fall into sin and corruption, yet it did. It takes money to operate a medical school/center. That has to be provided through the hands of men, it will not fall out of Heaven.
Also, as a believer who attends a Charismatic church, let me clarify to you that we believe that anyone can pray with someone to believe for their healing...not only leaders of large ministries. The person who needs the healing can pray for themselves as well. We believe, however, that part of the office of the evangelist is praying for the sick to recover. However, just like Jesus said in Mark 16:14-18, all believers are to preach the Gospel...and also..."they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover" (NKJV). I offer these facts to you out of respect for you as a fellow believer. God BLESS you...I appreciate the fact that you have been preaching God's Word!
Ok, now I believe you have misunderstood ME...I never said God didn't know the future, God is not bounded by time...that has nothing to do with the success or failure of the City of Faith. Many good churches with pastors who are called of God (of EVERY denomonation...not only Charismatic) have closed their doors...lack of MONEY, lack of PEOPLE...I have seen it first hand. Now, would you say that EVERY church that has closed its doors due to these elements was not called of God and was out of God's plan...NO. Same thing with individual people, when they end up leaving the church, this does not mean God did not have a plan for thier lives, circumstances and the gift of free will lead to that. Now, I know some people believe that they were never saved in the first place, but that is another issue that I will not discuss here. The issue here is NOT the sovereignty of God (which He the is TOTALLY omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient...LORD of all! I believe this with my whole heart). That is a red herring. The issue is the free will of man and the fallen state of God's creation. It was God's sovereign plan for a medical center to be built that not only treats the physical and mental ills of people, but the spiritual ills as well. Why would this NOT be in God's plan? However, it failed due to the same reasons good churches of all denomonations fail...lack of MONEY, lack of PEOPLE. I see a terrible double-standard being held by the critics of Charismatic Christians and ministries. They attack the ministers for trying to raise money for their projects, and then when their projects fail, they attack them for "being a false prophet". Instead of spending their time trying to discount "heretics", these people should stop majoring in minors and focus on the Great Commission. THIS is what matters, let God deal with heretics! All our job is is to preach the Gospel and serve God. Like the Westminster Catechism says..."What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever." I have been in both Conservative and Charismatic churches, and still continue to have exposure to both, and I do not see any major difference in their theology. The major difference I see is that Conservative churches do not believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today and they believe that God doesn't heal everybody. If you look at any of the major Charismatic organizations' doctrinal statements, the first points are always the sovereignty of God, the Trinity, the fall and redemtion of man, the deity of Christ, the infallability of Scripture, etc. Here are a few examples of some Charismatic doctrinal statements:
So, I want to end by saying...let's keep the MAIN thing the MAIN thing and work TOGETHER to reach the lost! Also, I want to say it is OK to talk about making sure the "scandals" are presented in the article...but what about mentioning all the good things about him too? Yes, there are many! I present this repsectfully.
P.S.: I apologize for the hunting you had to do with that link. ORU's page says it is listed by the Princeton Review as one of the best schools in the West and if you go to this link you will see them listed (they have broken up the list by state). ORU's news release ALSO says that they were rated in the top 50 schools in the Masters-West category. They still have been recognized by these organizations (The Princeton Review is a well-respected academic services organization...they have college test-prep and college stats...I don't think they should rate "beer drinking" or "marajuana use", etc. either...I graduated from a CONSERVATIVE Christian High School that used them for test prep.). ORU has a right to notify people about the fact that they were given good ratings.
I apologize for my delay in writing...I have been extremely busy these past few days. I will be happy to look through your articles to make sure your information is valid. I will research what you told me about Ted Haggard (I am not familiar with C. Peter Wagner). I'll let you know what I find. Also, I can tell you as a fact that Benny Hinn does not believe there are 9 persons in the godhead. I don't know where you saw that, but that is not valid...for example, here is the excerpt from the statement of faith on his website:
I am certain he is a believer...if you have ever attended one of his crusades, you know that he gives a Biblical Gospel message, the delivery is quite similar to that of other great Conservative evangelists. If you want to see the Gospel message given on Benny Hinn's website, click here. I look forward to your response.
P.S.: Thanks for the "unusual article" link! There were some strange things on that!
Moved an anon.'s witness from article. The scripture references may have some use to this article's group of editors.
WBardwin 10:48, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I marked this article for possible POV problems. The changes made today by 70.244.230.204 provide an overly-positive view of Oral Roberts, with sentences like "This was the largest health facility of its kind in the world, and sought to merged together the healing streams of prayer and medicine as God had revealed it to Oral Roberts." This is language straight from the ministry. We don't know if God revealed it to Oral or not. At the same time, the previous version of the article was a brief biography followed by a list of criticisms. I think we need something in between the two approaches. -- Beirne 16:10, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
I think the article should include the 1987 incident in which Oral Roberts said that God would "call him home" unless a certain sum was raised. This is surely one of the most memorable and referenced events in the history of the Oral Roberts ministry.
It is surely more memorable and distinctive than the 2004 "wake-up call".
Any knowledgable volunteers? Or suggestions for references? Phiwum 18:25, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
The recent edits to this article have turned it from an account of Mr Roberts into an attempt to preach to the majority of our readers who are not christians. Therefore I have tagged the article as not having a neutral point of view any more.
This tag can be lifted, but that should only be done when the text no longer reads like an advertisement for Mr Roberts and his businesses and instead starts to look like an entry in an encyclopedia.
If anyone editing here has any questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page and I'll be happy to help out. Thanks. ➨ ❝ REDVERS ❞ 19:38, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I see the article has been marked for cleanup. Could someone elaborate on what needs to be cleaned up? It's not a great article but a little direction would help. The reasons should be listed on the Wikipedia:Cleanup page and here on the talk page. -- Beirne 11:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Unless I missed it, the article does not answer the question of who he received the much joked-about nickname "Oral"? It seems like an obvious point this article should cover. Peter G Werner 18:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit suggests that Ronald Robert committed suicide because he was a homosexual. The citation is alternet.org. It is not at all obvious to me that this is a reliable source and I tend to think that this gossip and speculation should be removed. Comments? Phiwum 01:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
The original article had a gross inaccuracy, and I corrected it. The original article said his two surviving children were Richard and Rebecca. Richard is still around, of course, but it is Oral and Evelyn's other daughter, Roberta Potts, who is still alive. Rebecca Nash is the one who died in a plane crash years ago. (You can find the information at the official Oral Roberts webpage if you're interested.) Contributors to Wikipedia need to be a lot more careful and not make egregious errors like this one.--Susan Nunes, April 15, 2007
Thank you for contributing this article to the wiki. As you are aware, many people from all sorts of backgrounds and beliefs come to wikipedia for the facts, hopefully free of opinion and bias. You have a good start in this article but I would like to point out a few things which need attention. Improving this article to be more neutral and based in fact will improve the credibility of your cause. Please consider my notes. -Explain significance of Cherokee link to Christianity and/or Oklahoma history as you had mentioned, with a citation if needed. -A citation would be a good idea with regards to the number of books he has supposedly written -The term 'Healing Crusade' should be re-considered. Is it the actual name he used when referring to these journeys? If not, the term is a bit biased and certainly not common knowledge. I would consider using quotations to reflect that this is indeed the proper term used by Oral, explain the origin of the term, or replace it with something less sensational. -Please consider citing this article more thoroughly, especially around statements of fact, such as referring to '...thousands of people[..] in the healing line', links to the supposed testimony of doctors, the honor code associated with his school, etc. -City of Faith is a title, rather than a commonly used term if I am reading this correctly, you may consier annotating it as such. Again, to people who are not of your faith, nonchalantly referring to something as a City of Faith seems sensational unless there was a commonly understood term by that name with an already implied definition. -A citation on the claim of largest medical facility of its kind and dates of operation would add veracity to your article.
A good article with lots of good work, I hope a few of these suggestions can make it even better! When writing articles, thinking of everyone's point of view makes for a better read, and makes you look good in the process! Regards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Defiance167 ( talk • contribs) 18:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC).
This article is missing a key element, namely the influence of the Methodist tradition on his ministry and within the university ... particularly in the 1960s and 1970s. The Roberts family were members of one or more Methodist / United Methodist congregations (First UMC and Will Rogers UMC, to name a couple) in Tulsa during that time, leaving the UMC sometime in the late 1980s. This association was very influencial upon ORU students and graduates of the day. Someone more knowledgeable than me can provide more detailed information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.18.46 ( talk) 02:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone please add that O.R. was a member of the mainline United Methodist Church since 1968. See his obit at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121503225.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.126.62 ( talk) 18:40, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
All kidding aside, according to the biography Oral Roberts: An American Life (p.26), his birth name was Granville Oral Roberts, Granville being a family name and Oral being a name made up by his cousin, who later claimed she just liked the sound and didn't think she'd even heard the word before. [1] Since 23 December 2008, this article has apparently stated that his name is "Granville Richard James Oral Roberts III". I find no other source for this name at all, and it was added here by IP editor 72.204.4.71, who more recently made a similar, and more obviously spurious, change to Roberts' name. That edit was reverted immediately but the original "Richard James" edit from 23 December 2008 remained. I have now reverted it.-- Arxiloxos ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Or is the vandalism low level enough to simply deal with it? KillerChihuahua ?!? Advice 22:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Considering his importance in the field of televangelism, it is incredible that there are so few images of this man, let alone free ones. Burpelson AFB ( talk) 04:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
In the early 1940's, Mr. Roberts conducted tent revivals/healing meetings in and around Tulsa, Oklahoma, often accompanied by evangelist Steve Pringle and Church of the Nazarene preacher Jo Ella Oliver.
(Miss Oliver later became Jo Ella Herron, my mother.)
Thanks,
Rick Herron —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickh1977 ( talk • contribs) 13:57, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
This talk page is meant for improving the article (with reliable/verifiable sources), it's not a forum for personal views on the topic. Hence, comments here about Roberts are almost worthless unless they either cite new sources, or cite sources already in the article along with thoughts on how to deal with those sources. Moreover, the policy on living persons applies to Roberts' living family members and there is also a long standing consensus that BLP tends to apply to en.Wikipedia articles about the lately deceased. Otherwise unpublished recollections from folks who knew Roberts are original research and can't be put in the article. Either way, verifiable published sources must be cited. Gwen Gale ( talk) 16:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
What kind of name is Oral? Is it short for something? 99.53.169.167 ( talk) 17:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Cindy Jane
so what was he up to between 1941 and 1945? Consicering he would have been 23 when Pearl Harbor was bombed he would have been just the right age to participate in WWII. Anybody know how he spent those years? 66.134.170.155 ( talk) 13:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning this? [2]
"Only one organ made to bring forth life—it's the male organ. It's not in lesbianism for the tongue of a female goes into the vagina of another female. It's not in the male where the male organ goes into the part of the, of the body where the, the waste matter comes out of the body, the poison, and he penetrates that part of the body in homosexuality. It's not to be put into the mouth of the man, or the mouth of the man or the woman on the male organ! It is the male organ penetrating the vagina of the woman—the male and the female!..."
It certainly is. Religiously motivated control of peoples' sex lives is rampant in the U.S. and this guy represents a strong advocate for such control. It's the only reason I've heard of him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.183.54.102 ( talk) 20:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
I am somewhat surprised that this article contains no paragraph about all the criticism Oral Roberts has faced throughout the years. There have been several scandals surrounding his person and his activities and many of his religious views have been heavily criticized by Christians and non-Christians alike. At the very least I would think that some of those points should be reflected in the article. -- Hadoriel ( talk) 11:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I see the statement that Oral's impact was 2nd to Billy Graham's. I had removed this because while it was said by an expert, it is a subjective opinion. Even the expert is hedging, saying that it will take the long run to see the impact. There is no easy way to quantify this kind of impact, so this is really just an opinion, no more valid than if someone said Oral was the 2nd worst televangelist. It is good for the article to describe Oral's impact, but this statement doesn't mean much. -- Beirne ( talk) 18:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Using the Olympics as a precedent for how many, the top three deserve comparison and recognition. I disagree with you deleting the statement without building a consensus in this talk page. There was already a tacit consensus by the fact that 64 watchers let the statement stand for 23 consecutive days. Obankston ( talk) 04:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Choose which form of attribution you want, and I'll insert the statement with citation in the section →Ministry and university:
Obankston ( talk) 07:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I added a clarification tag to the statement that Oral laid the foundation for abundant life. It is obviously something he promoted, but I think technically Jesus laid the foundation for abundant life. Could someone who understands this better clarify this? -- Beirne ( talk) 23:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
There is an article stub for abundant life. There have been some discussions on improving this article at Talk:Abundant Life. While working on the Oral Roberts article, I used this article stub as a holding place for some material related to the Oral Roberts article but did not belong there. Unfortunately, writing new articles is not my strong point, so I am hoping that someone else will pick this up. The concepts Word of Faith, Prosperity Gospel, Health and Wealth Gospel, and Abundant Life are closely related, but not identical. The four articles are interlinked, and there is activity on the first three. Obankston ( talk) 02:49, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph says: "...he became embroiled in controversies and criticism from both Christians and non-Christians alike, particularly around the personal wealth that he accumulated from donations." While his personal wealth was an issue, I thought the bigger controversies were the 900-foot Jesus and saying God would call him home if people didn't donate enough. Also, some sources for the criticism should be referenced, especially for the Christian part. I know it is true but but that part of the statement is a bit vague. -- Beirne ( talk) 14:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The vagueness in the intro is a summary to the details that follow in the body of the article, not a place for statistics or definitions. It is subjective which controversy is the biggest, different people have different complaints. My biggest complaint and the complaints of people I knew at the time it happened are irrelevant to the article. My proposal is to replace the entire sentence.
Change from:
Change to (option #1, using quote):
Change to (option #2, rewording quote):
Obankston ( talk) 05:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I ask that the following sentence be deleted from the article because it does not quote any reference to substantiate what it claims.
"Scandals persisted through the 1980s as fraudulent healing practices were exposed." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.28.164.2 ( talk) 21:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Even someone not familiar with the guy can see it reads like an advertisement. The most POV bit is right at the end where it basically reads like an apologists section. This article isn't balanced, and certainly isn't NPOV. And to those who wrote earlier in the talk page such gems as.
"You people have no right to judge the legitamacy of Oral Roberts. Keep objectivity, ok?"
Objectivity is not using sites financed by this mans ministries as sources, or links.
"Your taking these quotes out of context and forgetting that these were directed at an audience who understood what he meant. Please leave the content of these articles to those who have a better understanding of the facts and doctrines of these Christian leaders, not the liberal media"
This is an encylopedia.. the whole point of it is that people reading it who don't know anything about a given subject may get an unbiased view ie NPOV, so leaving it's content to "those who have a better understanding", i.e. Fanboys who won't have a bad thing said against their chosen religious leader, is not a good idea at all.
This article isn't just a joke, it's a disgrace — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.69.7.114 ( talk) 07:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree this article is a JOKE, Roberts was a known con man. Whoever is editing this article wants to make a con man look like a lovely christian minister. Sellingstuff ( talk) 15:16, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
http://thegazette.com/2009/12/20/oral-roberts-nothing-more-than-a-con-artist
We have a media article now using that term, can you please add to the opening statement something with the term "con man" (because he was this is the default position not the one you are taking) and source that link? Thanks Sellingstuff ( talk) 07:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I deleted a reference attached to a sentence in the header. I searched for various words used *in* the sentence, in the reference and found none of them. Please attach references to the exact sections they encase, and use *quotes* to indicate what is being exactly said. Wjhonson ( talk) 16:10, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
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