This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Oracle article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
It seems the scholastics have been through here. I pulled up the first version of this page, which deals clearly with the most famous oracle of all, that of Apollo, at Delphi. Since then, that specific topic has been moved to the last-mentioned page, while a whole constellation of articles on this oracle or that have been written.
I don't argue that good content has been added, but I find it overprecise, perhaps imprecise, to discuss all oracles as though they were merely their sibyls. The Oracle was not a crazy woman raving in a room; she herself was considered unimportant by her contemporaries, a mere conduit. The Oracle was the voice of the god Apollo, high in the Pantheon, and taken very seriously indeed.
I see no reason for this radical revisionism, but I lack the time and patience to pick a fight over this, overhauling the entire complex of articles. I do insist on a simple link to the only Classical oracle most readers have ever known. — Xiong 熊 talk * 14:58, 2005 August 13 (UTC)
Should a link be added to the Oracle Corporation? I think, in modern times the word "Oracle" actually refers to the company, almost as often, or as often, as the prophetic Oracle. - Tejastheory 01:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
http://www.digitalbuilder.co.nz/Society_SubconciousLanguage.asp
I heard something weird and I thought it was true, I have Schizoprehnia so I will not say for sure it is true, but merely learn what I can from it.
I suggest the default result for the serach Oracle go directly to the disambiguation page, as it is likely most users searching for oracle are actually looking for information on the company/database Rtcpenguin 21:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed ancient Macedonia from the sentence about semi-Hellenic countries.Most historians agree that it was a Hellenic one.-- Hectorian 12:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I would imagine that most people (like 98% or so) doing an internet search on Oracle intended to find Oracle database. Are there any objections to reversing the default so this page becomes Oracle (prophecy) and Oracle points to Oracle database? As a compromise Oracle could point to the disambiguation page. I'm posting this here because I figure this is where the objections are most likely if there are any.
See this for a shorter version: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/05/20/MN209661.DTL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.40.140 ( talk) 12:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
The 'Oracle' corporation was originally intended to be a[ny] company that would provide a computer program to aggregate and collate information about a rare mucousal artifact -- an oracle-bead chronicle. However, no such computer programming has yet been applied to the discovery of the artifact, other than facsimiles/e-mails sent to the Archaeological Institute of America which have presumably been retained somewhere in that overall database. The Oracle Corporation addresses business-domain applications only, and has never demonstrated any intent or purpose to aid investigation of the tiny bead artifact found in Degolia, PA. Therefore, in my opinion, the corporation should be the odd entry out (disambiguation). Beadtot 66.217.65.184 ( talk) 03:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I removed the text:
because it appears to contradict Famous oracular statements from Delphi, which records prophecies from the 4th century. I replaced it with this from Pythia:
Neither claim is referenced, so verification is needed. -- Beland 00:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved per discussion (non-admin closure). PeterSymonds | talk 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
As stated here in the past, the majority of the people looking for "Oracle" will search for the multi billion company Oracle Corporation, and not for the philosophic alternative which discusses persons referred to as oracles.
As both topics are quite high profile, i would like to suggest moving the current "Oracle" article to a different article name, and point "Oracle" to Oracle (disambiguation). To me it makes much more sense to point people to a page where multiple options are being given, then blindly sending them to either one of different topics. Even trough there is a {{otheruses}} i don't think that this should warrant the current situation. Excirial ( Talk, Contribs) 18:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Oracle 11g, Siebel, PeopleSoft | Oracle, The World's Largest ...
The world's largest enterprise software company, Oracle is the only vendor to offer solutions for every tier of your business -- database, middleware, ...
Stock quote for ORCL
www.oracle.com/ - 44k - Cached - Similar pages
Oracle Technology Network | Downloads, Discussions, and ...
Oracle Technology Network provides services and resources to help developers, DBAs, and architects build, deploy, manage, and optimize applications using ...
www.oracle.com/technology/index.html - 73k - Cached - Similar pages
Oracle Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Encyclopedia article about the company, including history, products and services, and controversies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Corporation - 137k - Cached - Similar pages
Something should be added about Dorje Shugden oracle. Maybe this [1]? or that [2]?
select ename sal from emp; —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.49.5.45 ( talk) 15:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Discussion moved from User talk:Bkonrad as this is about this page.
I have reverted your reversion of my edit of the hatnote for Oracle. The corporation is only one of a number of other uses of the word and does not belong there. DionysosProteus ( talk) 17:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
"When a term has a primary meaning and two or more additional meanings, the hatnote on the primary topic page should link to a disambiguation page.
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
may be used for this."
The example provided to illustrate proper use is: This article is about the mazelike labyrinth from Greek mythology. For other uses, see Labyrinth (disambiguation). As you can see, the version of the hatnote that I have edited on Oracle is the correct version. Accordingly, I have restored it. DionysosProteus ( talk) 13:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
{{
otheruses4|USE2|PAGE2|USE3|PAGE3|USE4|PAGE4|USE5|PAGE5}}
also supports multiple parameters. I suggest that you self-revert your ill-advised edits -- if not because you are wrong, then because you have violated
WP:3RR.
older ≠
wiser
14:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)OED has:
I suggest these three main meanings are a mater of disambiguation. Otherwise we just get a pointless list of cultures, religions and mythologies. -- dab (𒁳) 14:18, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I am not sure we understand each other. You are more or less suggesting what I am proposing in the first place. I have introduced the "in other cultures" section. Before that, "Greek" was just listed as one culture among others. Of course the article can retain a brief paragraph about parallel institutions in other cultures, especially when based on references that explicitly draw such parallels. But the {{ main}} article for that section would be the existing Divination article.
Of course divination in Chinese culture can remain a section redirect until there is enough material, but where should that section be? Perhaps at divination, perhaps at fortune-telling, perhaps at traditional Chinese religion, but hardly in an article about Greek polytheism. -- dab (𒁳) 08:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
ok, the article is devolving into a pointless "list of divination practices by cultural region". I think this should be split off to the divination topics, and if possible to standalone articles, before much more material piles up here. -- dab (𒁳) 09:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the flagged line about Dalai Lama consulting Dorje Shugen before fleeing Tibet; the dramatic story of him consulting Nechung Oracle before fleeing Tibet is well-known from his autobiography. I also added some information about other oracles that I don't know how to source: it was told to me directly by the Secretary to HH the Dalai Lama, but it's not been printed anywhere yet. Perhaps I'll try to get a brief article about it published somewhere soon and come back to add the source; in the meantime, maybe it would be best to flag it as "citation needed" and leave it be, if anything, until I can come back to it. It's definitely the truth though. Yonderboy ( talk) 04:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The tradition of the oracles of the Latter-day Saints does not seem to meet the definition of oracle in this article. The description given is as follows:
It seems to me this refers to an interpretation of scripture rather than a "prediction or a precognition of the future" (as the article's definition of "oracle" intends). Nathan Oman, in an article entitled: "'The Living Oracles': Legal Interpretation and Mormon Thought" discusses this in reference to a quote from William Blackstone: "The judges in the several courts of justice... are the depositary of the laws; the living oracles...” "The Living Oracles" of the Mormon tradition are thus normative, rather than predictive. I've removed the section of this title from the article. However, if I've got something wrong, let's discuss it here. Sunray ( talk) 19:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The article links to the Basque goddess Mari, but the context is about a Near Eastern entity. I don't believe the text correctly linked.
The article on the Basque goddess makes no mention of divination, prediction, or any other oracular powers. She is apparently a weather goddess. The only possible connections I see are that she is related to serpents and lives in a cave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kibi78704 ( talk • contribs) 20:27, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi, I am not too familiar with editing Wikipedia but I would like to point out that a section of the page says "Oracles were thought to be portals through which the gods spoke directly to people. In this sense they were different from seers (manteis, μάντεις) who interpreted signs sent by the gods through bird signs, animal entrails, and other various methods." I find this part quite ambiguous, as the term "oracle" isn't even from ancient times, and literally the most famous "oracle" is supposedly Pythia from the Delphi, who is literally the head priestess of the "Μαντείο". Can someone more experienced take a look at this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:CC24:F209:E41F:D6A4:F3A7:C4C3 ( talk) 16:12, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Currently the lead section begins with the line, "An oracle is a person or agency considered to provide wise and insightful counsel..." Is 'agency' really the right word here?? Seems odd. -- Twomatters ( talk) 02:36, 19 May 2022 (UTC) Oracle (GKGN No. 0643064) — mount, Sakhalin Oblast; Oracle (GKGN No. 0124728) — river, Republic of Sakha (Yakutia); Oracle River, Yakutia in Russia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.65.97.58 ( talk) 20:28, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Oracle article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
It seems the scholastics have been through here. I pulled up the first version of this page, which deals clearly with the most famous oracle of all, that of Apollo, at Delphi. Since then, that specific topic has been moved to the last-mentioned page, while a whole constellation of articles on this oracle or that have been written.
I don't argue that good content has been added, but I find it overprecise, perhaps imprecise, to discuss all oracles as though they were merely their sibyls. The Oracle was not a crazy woman raving in a room; she herself was considered unimportant by her contemporaries, a mere conduit. The Oracle was the voice of the god Apollo, high in the Pantheon, and taken very seriously indeed.
I see no reason for this radical revisionism, but I lack the time and patience to pick a fight over this, overhauling the entire complex of articles. I do insist on a simple link to the only Classical oracle most readers have ever known. — Xiong 熊 talk * 14:58, 2005 August 13 (UTC)
Should a link be added to the Oracle Corporation? I think, in modern times the word "Oracle" actually refers to the company, almost as often, or as often, as the prophetic Oracle. - Tejastheory 01:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
http://www.digitalbuilder.co.nz/Society_SubconciousLanguage.asp
I heard something weird and I thought it was true, I have Schizoprehnia so I will not say for sure it is true, but merely learn what I can from it.
I suggest the default result for the serach Oracle go directly to the disambiguation page, as it is likely most users searching for oracle are actually looking for information on the company/database Rtcpenguin 21:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed ancient Macedonia from the sentence about semi-Hellenic countries.Most historians agree that it was a Hellenic one.-- Hectorian 12:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I would imagine that most people (like 98% or so) doing an internet search on Oracle intended to find Oracle database. Are there any objections to reversing the default so this page becomes Oracle (prophecy) and Oracle points to Oracle database? As a compromise Oracle could point to the disambiguation page. I'm posting this here because I figure this is where the objections are most likely if there are any.
See this for a shorter version: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/05/20/MN209661.DTL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.40.140 ( talk) 12:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
The 'Oracle' corporation was originally intended to be a[ny] company that would provide a computer program to aggregate and collate information about a rare mucousal artifact -- an oracle-bead chronicle. However, no such computer programming has yet been applied to the discovery of the artifact, other than facsimiles/e-mails sent to the Archaeological Institute of America which have presumably been retained somewhere in that overall database. The Oracle Corporation addresses business-domain applications only, and has never demonstrated any intent or purpose to aid investigation of the tiny bead artifact found in Degolia, PA. Therefore, in my opinion, the corporation should be the odd entry out (disambiguation). Beadtot 66.217.65.184 ( talk) 03:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I removed the text:
because it appears to contradict Famous oracular statements from Delphi, which records prophecies from the 4th century. I replaced it with this from Pythia:
Neither claim is referenced, so verification is needed. -- Beland 00:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved per discussion (non-admin closure). PeterSymonds | talk 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
As stated here in the past, the majority of the people looking for "Oracle" will search for the multi billion company Oracle Corporation, and not for the philosophic alternative which discusses persons referred to as oracles.
As both topics are quite high profile, i would like to suggest moving the current "Oracle" article to a different article name, and point "Oracle" to Oracle (disambiguation). To me it makes much more sense to point people to a page where multiple options are being given, then blindly sending them to either one of different topics. Even trough there is a {{otheruses}} i don't think that this should warrant the current situation. Excirial ( Talk, Contribs) 18:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Oracle 11g, Siebel, PeopleSoft | Oracle, The World's Largest ...
The world's largest enterprise software company, Oracle is the only vendor to offer solutions for every tier of your business -- database, middleware, ...
Stock quote for ORCL
www.oracle.com/ - 44k - Cached - Similar pages
Oracle Technology Network | Downloads, Discussions, and ...
Oracle Technology Network provides services and resources to help developers, DBAs, and architects build, deploy, manage, and optimize applications using ...
www.oracle.com/technology/index.html - 73k - Cached - Similar pages
Oracle Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Encyclopedia article about the company, including history, products and services, and controversies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Corporation - 137k - Cached - Similar pages
Something should be added about Dorje Shugden oracle. Maybe this [1]? or that [2]?
select ename sal from emp; —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.49.5.45 ( talk) 15:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Discussion moved from User talk:Bkonrad as this is about this page.
I have reverted your reversion of my edit of the hatnote for Oracle. The corporation is only one of a number of other uses of the word and does not belong there. DionysosProteus ( talk) 17:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
"When a term has a primary meaning and two or more additional meanings, the hatnote on the primary topic page should link to a disambiguation page.
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
may be used for this."
The example provided to illustrate proper use is: This article is about the mazelike labyrinth from Greek mythology. For other uses, see Labyrinth (disambiguation). As you can see, the version of the hatnote that I have edited on Oracle is the correct version. Accordingly, I have restored it. DionysosProteus ( talk) 13:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
{{
otheruses4|USE2|PAGE2|USE3|PAGE3|USE4|PAGE4|USE5|PAGE5}}
also supports multiple parameters. I suggest that you self-revert your ill-advised edits -- if not because you are wrong, then because you have violated
WP:3RR.
older ≠
wiser
14:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)OED has:
I suggest these three main meanings are a mater of disambiguation. Otherwise we just get a pointless list of cultures, religions and mythologies. -- dab (𒁳) 14:18, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I am not sure we understand each other. You are more or less suggesting what I am proposing in the first place. I have introduced the "in other cultures" section. Before that, "Greek" was just listed as one culture among others. Of course the article can retain a brief paragraph about parallel institutions in other cultures, especially when based on references that explicitly draw such parallels. But the {{ main}} article for that section would be the existing Divination article.
Of course divination in Chinese culture can remain a section redirect until there is enough material, but where should that section be? Perhaps at divination, perhaps at fortune-telling, perhaps at traditional Chinese religion, but hardly in an article about Greek polytheism. -- dab (𒁳) 08:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
ok, the article is devolving into a pointless "list of divination practices by cultural region". I think this should be split off to the divination topics, and if possible to standalone articles, before much more material piles up here. -- dab (𒁳) 09:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the flagged line about Dalai Lama consulting Dorje Shugen before fleeing Tibet; the dramatic story of him consulting Nechung Oracle before fleeing Tibet is well-known from his autobiography. I also added some information about other oracles that I don't know how to source: it was told to me directly by the Secretary to HH the Dalai Lama, but it's not been printed anywhere yet. Perhaps I'll try to get a brief article about it published somewhere soon and come back to add the source; in the meantime, maybe it would be best to flag it as "citation needed" and leave it be, if anything, until I can come back to it. It's definitely the truth though. Yonderboy ( talk) 04:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The tradition of the oracles of the Latter-day Saints does not seem to meet the definition of oracle in this article. The description given is as follows:
It seems to me this refers to an interpretation of scripture rather than a "prediction or a precognition of the future" (as the article's definition of "oracle" intends). Nathan Oman, in an article entitled: "'The Living Oracles': Legal Interpretation and Mormon Thought" discusses this in reference to a quote from William Blackstone: "The judges in the several courts of justice... are the depositary of the laws; the living oracles...” "The Living Oracles" of the Mormon tradition are thus normative, rather than predictive. I've removed the section of this title from the article. However, if I've got something wrong, let's discuss it here. Sunray ( talk) 19:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The article links to the Basque goddess Mari, but the context is about a Near Eastern entity. I don't believe the text correctly linked.
The article on the Basque goddess makes no mention of divination, prediction, or any other oracular powers. She is apparently a weather goddess. The only possible connections I see are that she is related to serpents and lives in a cave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kibi78704 ( talk • contribs) 20:27, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi, I am not too familiar with editing Wikipedia but I would like to point out that a section of the page says "Oracles were thought to be portals through which the gods spoke directly to people. In this sense they were different from seers (manteis, μάντεις) who interpreted signs sent by the gods through bird signs, animal entrails, and other various methods." I find this part quite ambiguous, as the term "oracle" isn't even from ancient times, and literally the most famous "oracle" is supposedly Pythia from the Delphi, who is literally the head priestess of the "Μαντείο". Can someone more experienced take a look at this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:CC24:F209:E41F:D6A4:F3A7:C4C3 ( talk) 16:12, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Currently the lead section begins with the line, "An oracle is a person or agency considered to provide wise and insightful counsel..." Is 'agency' really the right word here?? Seems odd. -- Twomatters ( talk) 02:36, 19 May 2022 (UTC) Oracle (GKGN No. 0643064) — mount, Sakhalin Oblast; Oracle (GKGN No. 0124728) — river, Republic of Sakha (Yakutia); Oracle River, Yakutia in Russia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.65.97.58 ( talk) 20:28, 7 July 2024 (UTC)