The most recent poll entry included Kahlon among the "Right-religious", though most others appear to include him on the "centre-left" bloc. Until recently, all the entries included Kahlon among the "Right-religious" bloc. It's difficult to fit him into a particular category. Kahlon was a member of Likud until recently. Perhaps we should have some discussion as to where he fits best. For now, I'll shift him to the "centre-left" bloc in the most recent entry for the sake of consistency.
Lip pike ( talk) 18:26, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Exactly which parties are Centre-left and which parties are Right-religious? I'm not entirely sure where some parties fit in. Could someone help me out? David O. Johnson ( talk) 06:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Right-religious are Likud, Yisrael Beitenu, Jewish Home, Shas, UTJ, and Otzma. Centre-left are Yesh Atid, Labor, Meretz, Hatnuah, Hadash, UAL-Ta'al, Balad, and Kadima.
Kulanu was listed as Right-religious until this past week when they were switched to centre-left, a switch I strongly disagree with. Their party founder and head himself last week self identified as slightly right of center.
Also, the listing itself is misleading, as Hadash, UAL-Ta'al, and Balad are Arab parties, and though correctly identified as left, Arab parties have never been part of any coalition in Israel, right of left, so their inclusion in the centre-left bloc is not an indicator of potential coalition forming post election. If the left were to form a coalition, it would be via getting some moderate right parties (like Yisrael Beitenu and Kulanu) or religious parties (Shas and UTJ) to sign on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.170.27 ( talk) 16:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I will note that the Arab parties are traditionally added to the left-wing bloc in newspaper pie charts. 79.177.209.207 ( talk) 17:24, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Current format is confusing and misleading. Instead of two categories, it would be best presented as 5 categories: Left (Labor/Hatnuah/Meretz), Center (Yesh Atid/Kulanu/Beitanu), Right (Likud/Jewish Home/Otzma), Religious(Shas/UTJ/Haam Itanu), and Arab. 71.196.163.215 ( talk) 05:37, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I assume the current ordering of the parties in the table is according to descending number of seats, with a grandfathered exception made for Yisrael Beiteinu because it was part of the Likud when the table was created.
Now that Labor and Hatnuah have been merged and future polls will presumably keep them together, might it be a good idea to move the Hatnuah column over to next to Labor? It'd be a lot of work, of course, and somebody would need to double-check that I didn't mess anything up, but I don't have a problem doing it myself. I just don't want to rearrange the current order without asking first.
(Also, do we want to prune year-old polls from this table?) Kimpire ( talk) 11:06, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
The two columns with center-left and right-religious are a bit problematic. There are some parties that fit perfectly well in one column or the other, but some parties are hard to say. And who makes the call? If it's us, it violates WP:OR. We're not allowed to classify a party one way or the other. In addition, the point of the column is not clear to me. I guess it's inspired by opinion polling for elections in some other countries where there really are two clear blocks, and the block that wins will form the government. That's not the case in Israel. Virtually every Israeli government has been a mix of some parties called center-left and some called right-religious. Does anyone seriously expect that if the so-called center left column gets a majority, then Herzog would form a government with Balad and Ta'al? Or does anyone think Netanyahu is very keen on a 'right-religious' government where every party in government would be more religious than Likud? In short If it's not clear which parties are center-left and right-religious, and if neither of these 'blocks' is likely to form the next government, then the point of having the two columns is not clear. Jeppiz ( talk) 14:58, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
These problems could be easily solved if someone just split the charts in 4 instead of 2, as their are 4 clear political affiliations in Israel. Newspapers don't do this as each newspaper has its own agenda and manipulation it wants to foment by breaking it into "left-center" and "right-religious". The four would be Zionist Right, Zionist Left, Charedi, and Arab (the first two seeing Israeli independence day as a holiday, and the latter two being either neutral or hostile to it). The center stuff is nonsense, as parties on both right and left try to portray themselves as centrist. It is just some are "right leaning" and some are "left leaning." Charedi parties like Shas and UTJ rarely care about standard right-left issues and will join coalitions based on who they get along with. (They happen to get along with Bibi and hate Lapid). And of course, Arab parties never join the coalition. The only question left would be Yishai's new party, as he seems to be both legitimately Haredi and Right. Though if he combines with Tekuma, he clearly belongs in the right camp, and according to http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/politics-and-military/politics/eli-yishai-10193 Yishai said he will only join a Netanyahu coaltion, which makes him clearly right as well. Right leaning is Likud, Habayit HaYehudi, (Tekuma if they break off), Kulanu, Yisrael Beytenu, and Otzma (if they make polls). Left leaning is Labor-HaTnuah, Yesh Atid, Meretz, Kadima if they are around. Arab is Ual-Taal, Balad, and Hadash. Haredi is Shas and UTJ. 24.186.248.116 ( talk) 01:36, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This argument renders the page meaningless to all but those well versed in Israeli politics. It seems to me as if political squabbles are getting in the way of the page's true intent which is to pass meaning on to others in the best way it can. The bottom line isn't your particular preference but accepting that Kadima failed two elections ago to create a government with the largest party because these blocks are ideological and exist in fact. If the Labour / Livni partnership wins this time it will perhaps face similar if not greater difficulty. These columns accurately describe an issue that effects both the elections and the outcome. It's removal renders the entire page worthless but for the select few who have the grounding necessary to be reading it in Hebrew anyway. I don't care whether it is left/centre oe centre/right or both...But if you want to make the page make sense put them in. If I were to suggest, I'd go centre/right because it carries the greatest accuracy and you do not need to begin doing headstands to place Kulanu and esp Yisrael Beytenu with the Arab Israeli parties - that makes a complete mockery of it all. It might help you sleep better at night, but it wont help come the time the winner will begin building the coalition - and that is what needs to be represented on this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.116.130 ( talk) 07:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah, I see now. I am not well versed in the Wiki edits or the TOS and stumbled into this blindly. I have read most of the comments here now and apologise for my intrusion. Different posters are placing parties to the left centre or right centre according to their own personal affiliation which makes any categorization that is made here, what you call 'OR'. It is a shame because it does provide light on what is in effect a complicated subject for those who do not understand the way Israeli politics works, however I now understand and agree with the removal entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.116.130 ( talk) 19:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Around the ten latest opinion polls here all go back to the same source, a blog. This violates WP:RS. When referring to an opinion poll, the reference should be either to the page of the organization doing the poll or to a respected newspaper publishing it. A blog writing about different polls is not WP:RS. Let's take a day or two for proper sources to be added, otherwise I suggest removing these polls. In the future, please provide proper sources. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:39, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Concerning these edits, [3] [4] this isn't a random facebook page; it is the official facebook page of the Knesset channel, and thus a legitimate source. Though even if we for some odd reason prefer inn.com, I don't see where the 0 for Hadash comes from; that sources shows a combined 10 seats for the arab lists. Rami R 09:55, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
Would it be possible for the centre-left / religious- right blocks to be coloured so that it is easier for people to know which parties are which? it would make it a lot clearer for those who do not know all these different political parties if for example the right/relgiion were coloured blue, and the other were coloured like red or left blank? ObserverUI ( talk) 11:23, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
There should be an "Others" column, where parties that were projected to receive seats in only a very small number of polls can go. Otzma should probably go there. The Greens could, too (they received seats in one poll, if I remember correctly, but that's it). FiredanceThroughTheNight ( talk) 03:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
As some users (and an IP SPA) insist on inserting columns for religious-right and centre-left, can I please inform about the rule against original research, WP:OR. This is not a matter of opinion, it's a basic Wikipedia policy. Unless you present a reliable source stating which parties belong in which group, your own insertions of parties in one group or the other is original research and must be deleted under Wikipedia policies. Jeppiz ( talk) 18:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Just wanted to comment I've been checking this page every few days for the last several months. It has been a terrific source of information for the latest polling data and comparatives. You all are doing a huge service. Thank you for your efforts. CD-Host ( talk) 21:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
It should be assumed, now that the parties are actually running together, that any poll that does not explicitly say otherwise is polling them together. Does anybody know if the Haaretz poll at #2 on the list polled them together or separately? Kimpire ( talk) 11:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Given that Kadima is not actually running in this election, and has not crossed the threshold in any poll in almost a year, I would like to propose removing the useless column from the table. A footnote can be added to any old polls in which the party still showed relevance. Kimpire ( talk) 11:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
I added a poll that had 121 seats [5] and changed it to a source that had 120 seats overall [6]. The revision was undone. Maybe we could find a third source for the poll and see what is says? David O. Johnson ( talk) 20:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There's another poll here [7] that hasn't been added to the article yet. However, I can't access it. Can someone add it? David O. Johnson ( talk) 18:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
The Time of Israel site covered the poll. I'm going to go ahead and add it. David O. Johnson ( talk) 23:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
On 17 March from 10pm onwards the Knesset Channel broadcast the results of a poll - possibly that of Panels? - in addition to those broadcast on Channels 1, 2 and 10. It's results should be included in the table. Mcljlm ( talk) 03:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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The most recent poll entry included Kahlon among the "Right-religious", though most others appear to include him on the "centre-left" bloc. Until recently, all the entries included Kahlon among the "Right-religious" bloc. It's difficult to fit him into a particular category. Kahlon was a member of Likud until recently. Perhaps we should have some discussion as to where he fits best. For now, I'll shift him to the "centre-left" bloc in the most recent entry for the sake of consistency.
Lip pike ( talk) 18:26, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Exactly which parties are Centre-left and which parties are Right-religious? I'm not entirely sure where some parties fit in. Could someone help me out? David O. Johnson ( talk) 06:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Right-religious are Likud, Yisrael Beitenu, Jewish Home, Shas, UTJ, and Otzma. Centre-left are Yesh Atid, Labor, Meretz, Hatnuah, Hadash, UAL-Ta'al, Balad, and Kadima.
Kulanu was listed as Right-religious until this past week when they were switched to centre-left, a switch I strongly disagree with. Their party founder and head himself last week self identified as slightly right of center.
Also, the listing itself is misleading, as Hadash, UAL-Ta'al, and Balad are Arab parties, and though correctly identified as left, Arab parties have never been part of any coalition in Israel, right of left, so their inclusion in the centre-left bloc is not an indicator of potential coalition forming post election. If the left were to form a coalition, it would be via getting some moderate right parties (like Yisrael Beitenu and Kulanu) or religious parties (Shas and UTJ) to sign on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.170.27 ( talk) 16:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I will note that the Arab parties are traditionally added to the left-wing bloc in newspaper pie charts. 79.177.209.207 ( talk) 17:24, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Current format is confusing and misleading. Instead of two categories, it would be best presented as 5 categories: Left (Labor/Hatnuah/Meretz), Center (Yesh Atid/Kulanu/Beitanu), Right (Likud/Jewish Home/Otzma), Religious(Shas/UTJ/Haam Itanu), and Arab. 71.196.163.215 ( talk) 05:37, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I assume the current ordering of the parties in the table is according to descending number of seats, with a grandfathered exception made for Yisrael Beiteinu because it was part of the Likud when the table was created.
Now that Labor and Hatnuah have been merged and future polls will presumably keep them together, might it be a good idea to move the Hatnuah column over to next to Labor? It'd be a lot of work, of course, and somebody would need to double-check that I didn't mess anything up, but I don't have a problem doing it myself. I just don't want to rearrange the current order without asking first.
(Also, do we want to prune year-old polls from this table?) Kimpire ( talk) 11:06, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
The two columns with center-left and right-religious are a bit problematic. There are some parties that fit perfectly well in one column or the other, but some parties are hard to say. And who makes the call? If it's us, it violates WP:OR. We're not allowed to classify a party one way or the other. In addition, the point of the column is not clear to me. I guess it's inspired by opinion polling for elections in some other countries where there really are two clear blocks, and the block that wins will form the government. That's not the case in Israel. Virtually every Israeli government has been a mix of some parties called center-left and some called right-religious. Does anyone seriously expect that if the so-called center left column gets a majority, then Herzog would form a government with Balad and Ta'al? Or does anyone think Netanyahu is very keen on a 'right-religious' government where every party in government would be more religious than Likud? In short If it's not clear which parties are center-left and right-religious, and if neither of these 'blocks' is likely to form the next government, then the point of having the two columns is not clear. Jeppiz ( talk) 14:58, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
These problems could be easily solved if someone just split the charts in 4 instead of 2, as their are 4 clear political affiliations in Israel. Newspapers don't do this as each newspaper has its own agenda and manipulation it wants to foment by breaking it into "left-center" and "right-religious". The four would be Zionist Right, Zionist Left, Charedi, and Arab (the first two seeing Israeli independence day as a holiday, and the latter two being either neutral or hostile to it). The center stuff is nonsense, as parties on both right and left try to portray themselves as centrist. It is just some are "right leaning" and some are "left leaning." Charedi parties like Shas and UTJ rarely care about standard right-left issues and will join coalitions based on who they get along with. (They happen to get along with Bibi and hate Lapid). And of course, Arab parties never join the coalition. The only question left would be Yishai's new party, as he seems to be both legitimately Haredi and Right. Though if he combines with Tekuma, he clearly belongs in the right camp, and according to http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/politics-and-military/politics/eli-yishai-10193 Yishai said he will only join a Netanyahu coaltion, which makes him clearly right as well. Right leaning is Likud, Habayit HaYehudi, (Tekuma if they break off), Kulanu, Yisrael Beytenu, and Otzma (if they make polls). Left leaning is Labor-HaTnuah, Yesh Atid, Meretz, Kadima if they are around. Arab is Ual-Taal, Balad, and Hadash. Haredi is Shas and UTJ. 24.186.248.116 ( talk) 01:36, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This argument renders the page meaningless to all but those well versed in Israeli politics. It seems to me as if political squabbles are getting in the way of the page's true intent which is to pass meaning on to others in the best way it can. The bottom line isn't your particular preference but accepting that Kadima failed two elections ago to create a government with the largest party because these blocks are ideological and exist in fact. If the Labour / Livni partnership wins this time it will perhaps face similar if not greater difficulty. These columns accurately describe an issue that effects both the elections and the outcome. It's removal renders the entire page worthless but for the select few who have the grounding necessary to be reading it in Hebrew anyway. I don't care whether it is left/centre oe centre/right or both...But if you want to make the page make sense put them in. If I were to suggest, I'd go centre/right because it carries the greatest accuracy and you do not need to begin doing headstands to place Kulanu and esp Yisrael Beytenu with the Arab Israeli parties - that makes a complete mockery of it all. It might help you sleep better at night, but it wont help come the time the winner will begin building the coalition - and that is what needs to be represented on this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.116.130 ( talk) 07:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah, I see now. I am not well versed in the Wiki edits or the TOS and stumbled into this blindly. I have read most of the comments here now and apologise for my intrusion. Different posters are placing parties to the left centre or right centre according to their own personal affiliation which makes any categorization that is made here, what you call 'OR'. It is a shame because it does provide light on what is in effect a complicated subject for those who do not understand the way Israeli politics works, however I now understand and agree with the removal entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.116.130 ( talk) 19:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Around the ten latest opinion polls here all go back to the same source, a blog. This violates WP:RS. When referring to an opinion poll, the reference should be either to the page of the organization doing the poll or to a respected newspaper publishing it. A blog writing about different polls is not WP:RS. Let's take a day or two for proper sources to be added, otherwise I suggest removing these polls. In the future, please provide proper sources. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:39, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Concerning these edits, [3] [4] this isn't a random facebook page; it is the official facebook page of the Knesset channel, and thus a legitimate source. Though even if we for some odd reason prefer inn.com, I don't see where the 0 for Hadash comes from; that sources shows a combined 10 seats for the arab lists. Rami R 09:55, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
Would it be possible for the centre-left / religious- right blocks to be coloured so that it is easier for people to know which parties are which? it would make it a lot clearer for those who do not know all these different political parties if for example the right/relgiion were coloured blue, and the other were coloured like red or left blank? ObserverUI ( talk) 11:23, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
There should be an "Others" column, where parties that were projected to receive seats in only a very small number of polls can go. Otzma should probably go there. The Greens could, too (they received seats in one poll, if I remember correctly, but that's it). FiredanceThroughTheNight ( talk) 03:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
As some users (and an IP SPA) insist on inserting columns for religious-right and centre-left, can I please inform about the rule against original research, WP:OR. This is not a matter of opinion, it's a basic Wikipedia policy. Unless you present a reliable source stating which parties belong in which group, your own insertions of parties in one group or the other is original research and must be deleted under Wikipedia policies. Jeppiz ( talk) 18:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Just wanted to comment I've been checking this page every few days for the last several months. It has been a terrific source of information for the latest polling data and comparatives. You all are doing a huge service. Thank you for your efforts. CD-Host ( talk) 21:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
It should be assumed, now that the parties are actually running together, that any poll that does not explicitly say otherwise is polling them together. Does anybody know if the Haaretz poll at #2 on the list polled them together or separately? Kimpire ( talk) 11:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Given that Kadima is not actually running in this election, and has not crossed the threshold in any poll in almost a year, I would like to propose removing the useless column from the table. A footnote can be added to any old polls in which the party still showed relevance. Kimpire ( talk) 11:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
I added a poll that had 121 seats [5] and changed it to a source that had 120 seats overall [6]. The revision was undone. Maybe we could find a third source for the poll and see what is says? David O. Johnson ( talk) 20:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There's another poll here [7] that hasn't been added to the article yet. However, I can't access it. Can someone add it? David O. Johnson ( talk) 18:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
The Time of Israel site covered the poll. I'm going to go ahead and add it. David O. Johnson ( talk) 23:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
On 17 March from 10pm onwards the Knesset Channel broadcast the results of a poll - possibly that of Panels? - in addition to those broadcast on Channels 1, 2 and 10. It's results should be included in the table. Mcljlm ( talk) 03:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)