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Since the article deals at some length with the Stalingrad Front commander and his decision not to attack until the fog had lifted, I think his name should be mentioned. It appears from the Southern Front and Andrei Yeremenko articles that Yeremenko was the commander of Stalingrad Front at this time, but can that be confirmed? Pirate Dan ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi from russia! I do not speak English. But I'll help you. Google translator) I'll simply write. Uranium = Vatutin Rokossovsky, eremanenko. Three fronts. Army Commander: Malinowski, Chistyakov, Baht, Romanenko, Chuikov and others.
Eremenko commandir the Stalingrad front. He is a hero. Eremenko, defenders of Stalingrad. But Stalin told Zhukov. End battle Rokossovsky (Don Front). You say Eremenko. Eremenko was offended. he suffered. Eremenko wrote in his diary about Zhukov very bad. But completing the battle Rokossovsky. . I will make a good article about Vatutin. He commanded the Southwestern Front. The main blow in the Battle of Stalingrad. Make it a translation for his Wikipedia. We read in the Russian German British American historians. They lie and make up .)))) It was a great victory for our people. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
If you want the truth about the Eastern Front. Refer to the Russian. We open archives in 2010. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC) write to me on Wikipedia, and other authors Russian wiki. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Hard to believe this wasn't covered already. Disagree with the notion that horse-drawn artillery was "obsolete equipment". The Germans used it for the entire war. You'll need a quote to back up that assertion. Seems to me most other nations outside of the British Commonwealth and U.S. also relied on horse-drawn artillery. Nothing "obsolete" about it in 1942 unless you have a reliable source stating that it was, indeed, Hitler's opinion that it was (the context of the comment I removed). "Obsolete" means that it is outmoded, but horse-drawn artillery was perfectly capable of doing the jobs expected of it. Indeed, in some types of Russian weather and terrain, it was superior to motor vehicles of the day. 139.48.25.60 ( talk) 19:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
This is perhaps the biggest waste of time argument I have seen in my time here. The sentence says HITLER THOUGHT they were strong allies, BUT IN REALITY they weren't...-- Patton t/ c 20:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is Austria shown as a separate country on the map, rather than as part of Germany? 68.113.166.243 ( talk) 01:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there no Russian term for this operation that could go in the lead? SGGH ping! 09:22, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
There was an adult picture apparently from a sex related article posted as the article's main template. I changed it to another picture from this article as I didn't know what the original template was. I hope someone can sort this out. 193.6.150.66 ( talk) 10:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, I think having an English article entitled "Operation Ur Anus" on the front page, without locking editing straight away, is an invitation to vandalism :p -- 77.254.37.157 ( talk) 13:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Uranus was a Soviet initiative. Yet all the images are of axis generals and forces. Can we see some of the Soviet commanders and what their forces looked like please. Lumos3 ( talk) 13:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Any thoughts about adding the Italian commander to the info box?
Surv1v4l1st (
Talk|
Contribs)
13:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Couldn't we have a translation of Operation Uranus to Russian (in Cyrillic) on the first line right after the boldfaced article title. For example, look at the first line of the article on Moscow. - RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 15:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I did it. It is Операция «Уран» in Russian. -- Dr. Klim ( talk) 16:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
In the info box you have Adolf Hitler as a commander whereas Stalin is not listed, it seems that this implies major tactical decisions made by Hitler and my understanding is that, in general, he was responsible for major troop movements but not individual tactical decisions. Could someone clarify why one is included and not the other? SADADS ( talk) 16:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Since the article deals at some length with the Stalingrad Front commander and his decision not to attack until the fog had lifted, I think his name should be mentioned. It appears from the Southern Front and Andrei Yeremenko articles that Yeremenko was the commander of Stalingrad Front at this time, but can that be confirmed? Pirate Dan ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi from russia! I do not speak English. But I'll help you. Google translator) I'll simply write.
Eremenko commanded the Stalingrad front. He is a hero. But Stalin told Zhukov. Check out the battle will Rokossovsky (Don Front). You say Eremenko. Eremenko was offended. he suffered. Eremenko wrote in his diary about Zhukov very bad. But completing the battle Rokossovsky. . I will make a good article about Vatutin. He commanded the Southwestern Front. The main blow in the Battle of Stalingrad. Make it a translation for his Wikipedia. We read in the Russian German British American historians. They lie and make up .)))) It was a great victory for our people. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
If you want the truth about the Eastern Front. Refer to the Russian. We have discovered the archives in 2010. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC) write to me on Wikipedia, and other authors Russian wiki. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
'Romanian Lieutenant Gerhard Stöck...' I believe Stock was the German liason officer to the Romainians. He was also a noted former olympic athlete.
Walter S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.195.116 ( talk) 22:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
He seems to be right. At least according to the Gerhard Stöck article. But this area is not speciality, so I would ask one of you Smart people to act. Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 05:12, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
There are two conflicting numbers for Soviet tanks, both cited to the same source, I think its a typo. In the infobox it says 894 tanks, but in the section Soviet forces involved it says 804 tanks. -- Sherif9282 ( talk) 04:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Vi: Tôi vừa vẽ xong ảnh này, các bạn nếu thấy tốt thì cứ sử dụng cho bài viết nhé :D.
Lưu Ly (
talk)
08:43, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
This article describes well what happened. I'm left thinking "how/why did experts of war like the Germans leave their flanks so weak and allow themselves to be surrounded ?". Did they over-estimate the strength of their Romanian and Hungarian allies, underestimate the Soviet strength, believe that they were actually about to break right through the Russians ? This sort of total encirclement of a German army is just about unique - was Paulus the worst general in German history, was he badly advised, was he given false information by his allies on the flanks, did the Soviets brilliantly disguise their real strength, or was he forced to carry out a typically high-risk Hitler plan which could only work against some inferior enemy : "head of Army General Staff General Franz Halder had been dismissed in September after his efforts to warn about the danger which was developing along the over-extended flanks of the Sixth Army and the Fourth Panzer Army" and "Hitler expressed confidence in the ability of non-German Axis units to protect German flanks,[28] in reality these units relied on largely obsolete equipment and horse-drawn artillery, while in many cases the harsh treatment of enlisted personnel by officers caused poor morale.[29] In regard to mechanization, the First Romanian Armored Division was equipped with around 100 Czech-built Panzer 35(t) tanks,[24] armed with a 37-millimeter (1.5 in) gun[30] ineffective against the armor of Soviet T-34 tanks". This needs to be discussed to provide the How and Why to support the What. As I read it, it seems that if a student officer at a war college had proposed this German campaign plan he would have been given a fail mark, but Hitler and his inner circle were blind to reason. Correct ? Rcbutcher ( talk) 10:17, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello,
"McTaggart" and "McCarthy & Syron" seems to relie on old German sources that are known to be severly biased. As the German propaganda during the war they tend to minimise German failures and to blame their Romanian allies.
Everything linked to their work should be doublechecked with more "concensual" authors imho (such as Beevor or Glantz)
Ereinon ( talk) 12:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I had enough of hearing that our army was weak. You know what? We did just as good during Uranus as the Germans during Winter Storm. Romanian-and-proud ( talk) 11:40, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
In the penultimate para of the Aftermath section is the phrase "the distance between the outer and inner encirclements". I've just read the whole article (which is good) and I believe that only the outer encirclement has been mentioned before. Boscaswell talk 18:30, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Dont u ppl think that we should include the 200,000 ish casualties? or else , wait. is uranus only encirclement or is it the annhilation of the pocket? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E0CC:8300:24F9:2885:40B:FACF ( talk) 19:06, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
they lost 100,000 plus men and inflicted like 26,000 casualties. they are worse than the untrained volkssturm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E0CC:8300:24F9:2885:40B:FACF ( talk) 19:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Were there not other axis air forces involved in the operation that had ground forces that didn't take part in the Operation like the Italians? Originalcola ( talk) 00:08, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins "On 22 November Soviet forces began to cross the Don River..." is very confusing. It starts as it should with events of 22 November. It then digresses starting with "Meanwhile, on a later date of Dec.13, the 26th Tank Corps split of southwards along the Liska river inlet in a small advance towards a bridge near the town of Nish Tschirskaya" (and perhaps "split of" should be "split off"). It later returns to the events of 22 November (the sealing of the Stalingrad pocket. I cannot tell if various information in the middle of the paragraph applies to 22 Nov. or 13 Dec. For example, which day did "a bombardment from BM-13 Katyusha rocket launchers" occur?
I see no reason for the events of 13 Dec. to be in this paragraph at all. They should be deleted or moved to another part of the article. I would do it, but as I said cannot figure out whether some items are for 22 Nov. or 13 Dec. Johnmastell ( talk) 20:27, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Operation Uranus article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Operation Uranus is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 20, 2009. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Since the article deals at some length with the Stalingrad Front commander and his decision not to attack until the fog had lifted, I think his name should be mentioned. It appears from the Southern Front and Andrei Yeremenko articles that Yeremenko was the commander of Stalingrad Front at this time, but can that be confirmed? Pirate Dan ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi from russia! I do not speak English. But I'll help you. Google translator) I'll simply write. Uranium = Vatutin Rokossovsky, eremanenko. Three fronts. Army Commander: Malinowski, Chistyakov, Baht, Romanenko, Chuikov and others.
Eremenko commandir the Stalingrad front. He is a hero. Eremenko, defenders of Stalingrad. But Stalin told Zhukov. End battle Rokossovsky (Don Front). You say Eremenko. Eremenko was offended. he suffered. Eremenko wrote in his diary about Zhukov very bad. But completing the battle Rokossovsky. . I will make a good article about Vatutin. He commanded the Southwestern Front. The main blow in the Battle of Stalingrad. Make it a translation for his Wikipedia. We read in the Russian German British American historians. They lie and make up .)))) It was a great victory for our people. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
If you want the truth about the Eastern Front. Refer to the Russian. We open archives in 2010. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC) write to me on Wikipedia, and other authors Russian wiki. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Hard to believe this wasn't covered already. Disagree with the notion that horse-drawn artillery was "obsolete equipment". The Germans used it for the entire war. You'll need a quote to back up that assertion. Seems to me most other nations outside of the British Commonwealth and U.S. also relied on horse-drawn artillery. Nothing "obsolete" about it in 1942 unless you have a reliable source stating that it was, indeed, Hitler's opinion that it was (the context of the comment I removed). "Obsolete" means that it is outmoded, but horse-drawn artillery was perfectly capable of doing the jobs expected of it. Indeed, in some types of Russian weather and terrain, it was superior to motor vehicles of the day. 139.48.25.60 ( talk) 19:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
This is perhaps the biggest waste of time argument I have seen in my time here. The sentence says HITLER THOUGHT they were strong allies, BUT IN REALITY they weren't...-- Patton t/ c 20:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is Austria shown as a separate country on the map, rather than as part of Germany? 68.113.166.243 ( talk) 01:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there no Russian term for this operation that could go in the lead? SGGH ping! 09:22, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
There was an adult picture apparently from a sex related article posted as the article's main template. I changed it to another picture from this article as I didn't know what the original template was. I hope someone can sort this out. 193.6.150.66 ( talk) 10:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, I think having an English article entitled "Operation Ur Anus" on the front page, without locking editing straight away, is an invitation to vandalism :p -- 77.254.37.157 ( talk) 13:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Uranus was a Soviet initiative. Yet all the images are of axis generals and forces. Can we see some of the Soviet commanders and what their forces looked like please. Lumos3 ( talk) 13:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Any thoughts about adding the Italian commander to the info box?
Surv1v4l1st (
Talk|
Contribs)
13:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Couldn't we have a translation of Operation Uranus to Russian (in Cyrillic) on the first line right after the boldfaced article title. For example, look at the first line of the article on Moscow. - RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 15:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I did it. It is Операция «Уран» in Russian. -- Dr. Klim ( talk) 16:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
In the info box you have Adolf Hitler as a commander whereas Stalin is not listed, it seems that this implies major tactical decisions made by Hitler and my understanding is that, in general, he was responsible for major troop movements but not individual tactical decisions. Could someone clarify why one is included and not the other? SADADS ( talk) 16:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Since the article deals at some length with the Stalingrad Front commander and his decision not to attack until the fog had lifted, I think his name should be mentioned. It appears from the Southern Front and Andrei Yeremenko articles that Yeremenko was the commander of Stalingrad Front at this time, but can that be confirmed? Pirate Dan ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi from russia! I do not speak English. But I'll help you. Google translator) I'll simply write.
Eremenko commanded the Stalingrad front. He is a hero. But Stalin told Zhukov. Check out the battle will Rokossovsky (Don Front). You say Eremenko. Eremenko was offended. he suffered. Eremenko wrote in his diary about Zhukov very bad. But completing the battle Rokossovsky. . I will make a good article about Vatutin. He commanded the Southwestern Front. The main blow in the Battle of Stalingrad. Make it a translation for his Wikipedia. We read in the Russian German British American historians. They lie and make up .)))) It was a great victory for our people. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
If you want the truth about the Eastern Front. Refer to the Russian. We have discovered the archives in 2010. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC) write to me on Wikipedia, and other authors Russian wiki. Urslingen1 ( talk) 19:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
'Romanian Lieutenant Gerhard Stöck...' I believe Stock was the German liason officer to the Romainians. He was also a noted former olympic athlete.
Walter S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.195.116 ( talk) 22:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
He seems to be right. At least according to the Gerhard Stöck article. But this area is not speciality, so I would ask one of you Smart people to act. Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 05:12, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
There are two conflicting numbers for Soviet tanks, both cited to the same source, I think its a typo. In the infobox it says 894 tanks, but in the section Soviet forces involved it says 804 tanks. -- Sherif9282 ( talk) 04:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Vi: Tôi vừa vẽ xong ảnh này, các bạn nếu thấy tốt thì cứ sử dụng cho bài viết nhé :D.
Lưu Ly (
talk)
08:43, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
This article describes well what happened. I'm left thinking "how/why did experts of war like the Germans leave their flanks so weak and allow themselves to be surrounded ?". Did they over-estimate the strength of their Romanian and Hungarian allies, underestimate the Soviet strength, believe that they were actually about to break right through the Russians ? This sort of total encirclement of a German army is just about unique - was Paulus the worst general in German history, was he badly advised, was he given false information by his allies on the flanks, did the Soviets brilliantly disguise their real strength, or was he forced to carry out a typically high-risk Hitler plan which could only work against some inferior enemy : "head of Army General Staff General Franz Halder had been dismissed in September after his efforts to warn about the danger which was developing along the over-extended flanks of the Sixth Army and the Fourth Panzer Army" and "Hitler expressed confidence in the ability of non-German Axis units to protect German flanks,[28] in reality these units relied on largely obsolete equipment and horse-drawn artillery, while in many cases the harsh treatment of enlisted personnel by officers caused poor morale.[29] In regard to mechanization, the First Romanian Armored Division was equipped with around 100 Czech-built Panzer 35(t) tanks,[24] armed with a 37-millimeter (1.5 in) gun[30] ineffective against the armor of Soviet T-34 tanks". This needs to be discussed to provide the How and Why to support the What. As I read it, it seems that if a student officer at a war college had proposed this German campaign plan he would have been given a fail mark, but Hitler and his inner circle were blind to reason. Correct ? Rcbutcher ( talk) 10:17, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello,
"McTaggart" and "McCarthy & Syron" seems to relie on old German sources that are known to be severly biased. As the German propaganda during the war they tend to minimise German failures and to blame their Romanian allies.
Everything linked to their work should be doublechecked with more "concensual" authors imho (such as Beevor or Glantz)
Ereinon ( talk) 12:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I had enough of hearing that our army was weak. You know what? We did just as good during Uranus as the Germans during Winter Storm. Romanian-and-proud ( talk) 11:40, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
In the penultimate para of the Aftermath section is the phrase "the distance between the outer and inner encirclements". I've just read the whole article (which is good) and I believe that only the outer encirclement has been mentioned before. Boscaswell talk 18:30, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Dont u ppl think that we should include the 200,000 ish casualties? or else , wait. is uranus only encirclement or is it the annhilation of the pocket? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E0CC:8300:24F9:2885:40B:FACF ( talk) 19:06, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
they lost 100,000 plus men and inflicted like 26,000 casualties. they are worse than the untrained volkssturm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E0CC:8300:24F9:2885:40B:FACF ( talk) 19:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Were there not other axis air forces involved in the operation that had ground forces that didn't take part in the Operation like the Italians? Originalcola ( talk) 00:08, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins "On 22 November Soviet forces began to cross the Don River..." is very confusing. It starts as it should with events of 22 November. It then digresses starting with "Meanwhile, on a later date of Dec.13, the 26th Tank Corps split of southwards along the Liska river inlet in a small advance towards a bridge near the town of Nish Tschirskaya" (and perhaps "split of" should be "split off"). It later returns to the events of 22 November (the sealing of the Stalingrad pocket. I cannot tell if various information in the middle of the paragraph applies to 22 Nov. or 13 Dec. For example, which day did "a bombardment from BM-13 Katyusha rocket launchers" occur?
I see no reason for the events of 13 Dec. to be in this paragraph at all. They should be deleted or moved to another part of the article. I would do it, but as I said cannot figure out whether some items are for 22 Nov. or 13 Dec. Johnmastell ( talk) 20:27, 31 August 2023 (UTC)