This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I would suggest reviewing the following paper entitled Democracy and Propaganda: NATO’s War in Kosovo by Dr. Mark A. Wolfgram, Assistant Professor of Political Science at Oklahoma State University original (doc) google cache (html)
Here is a portion of the abstract:
Perhaps we can incorporate some citations to this work and the sources referenced in the paper in the article. // Laughing Man 06:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
There should be a link to the following leaflet that was distributed by Rugova's government AFTER the bombing started, to encourage the outflow of refugees. http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2007/04/expelled.html
User:Nikola Smolenski has removed a signiticant part of article without prior discussion. Removed informations were directly related to the article's topic so I have put it back. Removal of controversial content requires prior discussion.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 12:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
We do not know does such Plan ever existed, but we know that the Republic of Serbia "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians in order to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province. We also know, from the legally binding verdict of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, that deliberate actions of Serbian forces during the campaign "provoked the departure of at least 700,000 ethnic Albanians from Kosovo in the short period from late March to early June 1999."
Those informations are completely relevant to the article and the references used do mention Operation Horseshoe. If you challenges any information from the article, please name specific problem. You can't simply remove any information you don't like. We have to present all relevant informations in the article, not to hide it.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 23:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
From the Report of UK Committee on Foreign Affairs (paragraph named OPERATION HORSESHOE):
The Balkans in the new millennium: in the shadow of war and peace, by Tom Gallagher:
War and change in the Balkans: nationalism, conflict and cooperation, by Brad K. Blitz:
Yugoslavia as history: twice there was a country, by John R. Lampe:
Max Planck Yearbook of United Nations Law 2000, by Jochen Abr Frowein, Rüdiger Wolfrum:
Twenty-first-century peace operations, by William J. Durch:
Collision course: NATO, Russia, and Kosovo, by John Norris:
War since 1945, by Jeremy Black:
The Guardian also wrote about Operation Horseshoe ( Milosevic and Operation Horseshoe):
Timothy Garton Ash also wrote about Operation Horseshoe ( available on Serbian):
Obviously, many authors use term "Operation Horseshoe" for a large-scale campaign of ethnic cleansing carried out by Serbian forces, to expel the Albanian population from Kosovo.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 23:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The passage of Noam Chomsky's criticism is evidently false (perhaps on purpose?). He reveals that on March 27, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported that 4000 had fled Kosovo, and on April 1, the flow was high enough for UNHCR to begin to provide daily figures. Its Humanitarian Evacuation Programme began on April 5. The 200,000 figure is what the UNHCR was reporting for displaced persons within Kosovo, a figure that had been fairly stable for about a year.
Here is a slightly more complete report, from his book New Military Humanism. Prior to the bombing, and for two days following its onset, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported no data on refugees, though many Kosovars -- Albanian and Serb -- had been leaving the province for years, and entering as well, sometimes as a direct consequence of the Balkan wars, sometimes for economic and other reasons.NOTE{For details on the refugee flows, and the history generally, see Miranda Vickers, _Between Serb and Albanian: A History of Kosovo_ (Columbia, 1998).} After three days of bombing, UNHCR reported on March 27 that 4000 had fled Kosovo to Albania and Macedonia, the two neighboring countries. Until April 1 the UNHCR provided no daily figures on refugees, according to the _New York Times_. By April 5, the _Times_ reported that "more than 350,000 have left Kosovo since March 24," relying on UNHCR figures, while unknown numbers of Serbs fled north to Serbia to escape the increased violence from the air and on the ground. After the war, it was reported that half the Serb population had "moved out when the NATO bombing began." There have been varying estimates of the number of refugees within Kosovo before the NATO bombing. Cambridge University Law Professor Marc Weller, Legal Adviser to the Kosova (Kosovo Albanian) Delegation at the 1999 Rambouillet Conference on Kosovo, reports that after the withdrawal of the international monitors (KVM, Kosovo Verification Mission) on March 19, 1999, "within a few days the number of displaced had again risen to over 200,000." Basing himself on U.S. intelligence, House Intelligence Committee Chair Porter Goss gave the estimate of 250,000 internally displaced. The UNHCR reported on March 11 that "more than 230,000 people remain displaced within Kosovo."NOTE{Carlotta Gall, _NYT_, April 5. Summary based on NATO and UNHCR beginning April 1, _NYT_, May 29, 1999, accompanying a John Kifner retrospective. Serbs, Guy Dinmore, _Financial Times_, April 1; Kevin Cullen, _BG_, June 12, 1999. Weller, "The Rambouillet Conference," _International Affairs_ 75.2, April 1999. Goss, BBC, "Panorama: War Room, 19 April, 1999. UNHCR press release, March 11, 1999.} — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:430:0:38:DD77:ABD3:538B:ED03 ( talk) 09:46, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
According to Dr. Mark A. Wolfgram (Assistant Professor of Political Science - Oklahoma State University): Democracy and Propaganda: NATO’s War in Kosovo [1] (Science artical about this topic):
-- Alexmilt ( talk) 15:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
First of all, books and articles have no the same weight as judicial verdicts and reliable international reports.
Second, the Tribunal verdict speaks about planned activities, planning of operations, etc: [2]
Thirdly, the British House of Commons conclude that "there were orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan. Outside observers could have been aware of this plan as it would have required significant preparation. We also conclude that the withdrawal of OSCE monitors together with the international media and the start of NATO's bombing campaign encouraged Milosevic to implement this plan.
-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 22:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
German documentary: Es began mit einer Lüge (It began with a lie) [3] shows the proof that so called "Operation Potkovica" was made by German Verteidigungsministerium. Dokumentary shows the proofs how this "Operation" was made with false proofs (vilage Randubrava and vilage Sanhovici or Petershtika).
Same movie [4] Heinz Loquai: (rough translation) "I ask for a meeting in Defence Ministerium, which took place in November, and there was said to me that there was no "Operation Horseshoe..."
Heinz Loquai was german general that worked in OSCE in Vien during the war and he his job was to prepare peace missions of OSCE. He worked on place where he should be first to know for some Operation plan Horseshoe - he was a direct witness to events.
He said in show Panorama of German main state TV ARD: [5] "Diese Grafiken sind entstanden im deutschen Verteidigungsministerium, das hat man mir jedenfalls gesagt."
translation: "This diagrams (of Operation Horseshoe) were made in German Defence Ministery, that was told to me."
Today all what Yugoslav army did in Kosovo war is not secret becouse:
There are a lot of writers and publicist who are accusing German goverment of that time and who are saying that this "operation" was a false operation but this here are people who really work with this topic or they were closed to know what realy happend. Today many publicist just say that there was this operation without to go deep in this topic. -- Alexmilt ( talk) 15:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Was not this war religiously motivated? I thought that the ethnic peculiarity of the "to be cleansed" group was religion. Would someone clarify that, please, and if I am correct indicate the religion of the involved groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.129.241 ( talk) 01:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The operation clearly taret civillians with the objective of wiping out the Albanian-speaking population from Kosovo. It was, in fact, a TERROR OPERATION made by the dictatorship of Slobodan Milosevic. NATO intervened to stop this terror.-- 189.33.173.42 ( talk) 15:37, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
OK, sources told us that Bulgaria invented the plan, that was NOT EXISTING, and send it to Germany as "truth" find by their Military intelligence.
Please, dont remove POV tag, as this article should be fixed, even if we fix this subject. -- WhiteWriter speaks 13:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
(unindent)There is no wp:silence and if WW can't provide a source except for the Serbian (state) media Tanjug both the POV and the alleged part will be removed within a week. This began as a dispute between WW and bobrayner, an IP from Serbia that has been blocked since then intervened i.e if no RS is provided within a week for the alleged label, I'll revert back to bobrayner's stable version. In fact most of the content WW has been reverting isn't even in the sources as quoted above. Btw if WW continues to attribute to Nejski comments that she has never made I'll ask for immediate admin intervention as it isn't just source misrepresentation but also BLP violation. -- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Brazda-Stenkovac refugee camp.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 12 March 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Brazda-Stenkovac refugee camp.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:43, 19 March 2012 (UTC) |
An image used in this article,
File:Kosovo refugees in Macedonia 1999.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 1 May 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Kosovo refugees in Macedonia 1999.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:00, 2 May 2012 (UTC) |
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:15, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
The topic of this article is controversial and should probably be put under some kind of probation which I believe would reduce a possibility for continuation of the disruption (like using edit lines to refer to other editors' work as "crap" ( diff)).-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 08:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Here we come Serb propaganda again… the majority of these little numbers point to texts written by marginal, far-left-wing publications in the Western World or Serbian sources. It seems like someone has to appease the souls of Milosevic and Arkan in Hell.
In the same paragraph, we see the world “pretext for NATO”, comparing the attitude of the Western military alliance to Nazi Germany in the Gleiwitz incident…-- 179.153.193.237 ( talk) 13:46, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
How a site like this can be a kind of source at all ( http://www.spectrezine.org/war/kosovo.html)? How it can be a source even for a word of "alleged"? It's totally biased far-left anti-Western propaganda. -- Smörre ( talk) 01:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Operation Horseshoe. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:07, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Operation Horseshoe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:52, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Whilst many sources corroborate that Bulgaria supplied intelligence to Germany, and thus NATO, regarding 'horseshoe', none of the sources corroborate that Bulgaria gave the name, some explicitly refer to Germany giving the name, and several (eg Gdn), say that Bulgaria was not the only source at NATO's disposal for their conviction that such a plan existed. Pincrete ( talk) 15:45, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Yugoslav Army military response to KLA attacks culminated in Operation Horseshoe directed not only against KLA fighters but also including systematic expulsions of Kosovar civilians. [2] During the armed conflict in 1998 Yugoslav Army and Serbian police used excessive and random force, which resulted in property damage, displacement of population and death of civilians [3]
Some who? date Operation Horseshoe's effective beginning to the summer of 1998, when hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians were driven from their homes. [4]
Withdrawal of Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe monitors, together with the start of NATO's bombing campaign, encouraged Milošević to implement this "orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan". [5] On 20 March 1999, the Serbian offensive, known as Operation Horseshoe, was already in motion. [6] [7]
If it comes to the NATO bombing, if it comes to the American aggression, we Serbs will quite suffer, but the Albanians in Kosovo will be no more. [8]
— Vojislav Šešelj, Yugoslavia Deputy Prime Minister
Firstly, the bolded sentence does not have anything to do with "Operations before NATO intervention". Quite the opposite, it refers to the start of NATO bombing and "Milošević's plan" as a consequence. Secondly, "NATO intervention" should be referred to as "NATO bombing", as in the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia wiki page. In particular, the bombing of Kosovo is highly correlated with the displacement of people, and this is never commented on in this page. Thirdly, the plan is only alleged, and no proof of its existence was shown (from what I understood from this article), as noted in the beginning of the page, even though this is completely disregarded throughout the page.
Finally, this wiki article is a complete mess, and I do not understand why is it allowed. It goes completely against Wikipedia standards, and should be completely re-written, specially when it comes to polarising subjects, such as recent wars.
Withdrawal of Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe monitors, together with the start of NATO's bombing campaign, encouraged Milošević to implement this "orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan"because it doesn't fit under "Operations before NATO intervention." Third, I agree that no proof of the existence of Operation Horseshoe has been shown in the article; although for WP:NPOV reasons, I have kept the citations from authors that take as given the existence of Operation Horseshoe. SchuttenbachPercival ( talk) 23:34, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
References
In this edit, I deleted the following:
Claims that the plan was being implemented were NATO's justification for their bombing of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. [1] Human Rights Watch said that in early 1999, the Yugoslav army and the Serbian police "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province. [2]
My reasoning is that
SchuttenbachPercival ( talk) 04:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Media reports later claimed that the Austrian government had warned NATO before the bombing that a large-scale Serbian offensive was in preparation. The allegation was repeated two weeks into the bombing by the German government, which said that Operation Horseshoe-a plan to expel Albanians from Kosovo-had been drafted six months prior to the air war.82 A retired brigadier general in the German Army, however, later stated that the claims of a plan were faked from a vague intelligence report in order to deflect growing criticism in Germany of the bombing.83 [3]
It is debated whether or not the plan existed and whether it was enacted by Serbian forces. However, during the Kosovo War, Serbian forces expelled 848,000–863,000 Kosovo Albanians and caused the displacement of up to 590,000 Albanians within Kosovo. I removed the text as none of the sources actually mention "Operation Horseshoe". As the sources do not mention "Operation Horseshoe", it is thus very easy to fall into the WP:OR trap. A discussion should occur on where the content should be moved to possibly War crimes in the Kosovo War if it already isn't covered? ElderZamzam ( talk) 00:54, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
'
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I would suggest reviewing the following paper entitled Democracy and Propaganda: NATO’s War in Kosovo by Dr. Mark A. Wolfgram, Assistant Professor of Political Science at Oklahoma State University original (doc) google cache (html)
Here is a portion of the abstract:
Perhaps we can incorporate some citations to this work and the sources referenced in the paper in the article. // Laughing Man 06:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
There should be a link to the following leaflet that was distributed by Rugova's government AFTER the bombing started, to encourage the outflow of refugees. http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2007/04/expelled.html
User:Nikola Smolenski has removed a signiticant part of article without prior discussion. Removed informations were directly related to the article's topic so I have put it back. Removal of controversial content requires prior discussion.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 12:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
We do not know does such Plan ever existed, but we know that the Republic of Serbia "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians in order to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province. We also know, from the legally binding verdict of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, that deliberate actions of Serbian forces during the campaign "provoked the departure of at least 700,000 ethnic Albanians from Kosovo in the short period from late March to early June 1999."
Those informations are completely relevant to the article and the references used do mention Operation Horseshoe. If you challenges any information from the article, please name specific problem. You can't simply remove any information you don't like. We have to present all relevant informations in the article, not to hide it.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 23:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
From the Report of UK Committee on Foreign Affairs (paragraph named OPERATION HORSESHOE):
The Balkans in the new millennium: in the shadow of war and peace, by Tom Gallagher:
War and change in the Balkans: nationalism, conflict and cooperation, by Brad K. Blitz:
Yugoslavia as history: twice there was a country, by John R. Lampe:
Max Planck Yearbook of United Nations Law 2000, by Jochen Abr Frowein, Rüdiger Wolfrum:
Twenty-first-century peace operations, by William J. Durch:
Collision course: NATO, Russia, and Kosovo, by John Norris:
War since 1945, by Jeremy Black:
The Guardian also wrote about Operation Horseshoe ( Milosevic and Operation Horseshoe):
Timothy Garton Ash also wrote about Operation Horseshoe ( available on Serbian):
Obviously, many authors use term "Operation Horseshoe" for a large-scale campaign of ethnic cleansing carried out by Serbian forces, to expel the Albanian population from Kosovo.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 23:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The passage of Noam Chomsky's criticism is evidently false (perhaps on purpose?). He reveals that on March 27, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported that 4000 had fled Kosovo, and on April 1, the flow was high enough for UNHCR to begin to provide daily figures. Its Humanitarian Evacuation Programme began on April 5. The 200,000 figure is what the UNHCR was reporting for displaced persons within Kosovo, a figure that had been fairly stable for about a year.
Here is a slightly more complete report, from his book New Military Humanism. Prior to the bombing, and for two days following its onset, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported no data on refugees, though many Kosovars -- Albanian and Serb -- had been leaving the province for years, and entering as well, sometimes as a direct consequence of the Balkan wars, sometimes for economic and other reasons.NOTE{For details on the refugee flows, and the history generally, see Miranda Vickers, _Between Serb and Albanian: A History of Kosovo_ (Columbia, 1998).} After three days of bombing, UNHCR reported on March 27 that 4000 had fled Kosovo to Albania and Macedonia, the two neighboring countries. Until April 1 the UNHCR provided no daily figures on refugees, according to the _New York Times_. By April 5, the _Times_ reported that "more than 350,000 have left Kosovo since March 24," relying on UNHCR figures, while unknown numbers of Serbs fled north to Serbia to escape the increased violence from the air and on the ground. After the war, it was reported that half the Serb population had "moved out when the NATO bombing began." There have been varying estimates of the number of refugees within Kosovo before the NATO bombing. Cambridge University Law Professor Marc Weller, Legal Adviser to the Kosova (Kosovo Albanian) Delegation at the 1999 Rambouillet Conference on Kosovo, reports that after the withdrawal of the international monitors (KVM, Kosovo Verification Mission) on March 19, 1999, "within a few days the number of displaced had again risen to over 200,000." Basing himself on U.S. intelligence, House Intelligence Committee Chair Porter Goss gave the estimate of 250,000 internally displaced. The UNHCR reported on March 11 that "more than 230,000 people remain displaced within Kosovo."NOTE{Carlotta Gall, _NYT_, April 5. Summary based on NATO and UNHCR beginning April 1, _NYT_, May 29, 1999, accompanying a John Kifner retrospective. Serbs, Guy Dinmore, _Financial Times_, April 1; Kevin Cullen, _BG_, June 12, 1999. Weller, "The Rambouillet Conference," _International Affairs_ 75.2, April 1999. Goss, BBC, "Panorama: War Room, 19 April, 1999. UNHCR press release, March 11, 1999.} — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:430:0:38:DD77:ABD3:538B:ED03 ( talk) 09:46, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
According to Dr. Mark A. Wolfgram (Assistant Professor of Political Science - Oklahoma State University): Democracy and Propaganda: NATO’s War in Kosovo [1] (Science artical about this topic):
-- Alexmilt ( talk) 15:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
First of all, books and articles have no the same weight as judicial verdicts and reliable international reports.
Second, the Tribunal verdict speaks about planned activities, planning of operations, etc: [2]
Thirdly, the British House of Commons conclude that "there were orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan. Outside observers could have been aware of this plan as it would have required significant preparation. We also conclude that the withdrawal of OSCE monitors together with the international media and the start of NATO's bombing campaign encouraged Milosevic to implement this plan.
-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 22:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
German documentary: Es began mit einer Lüge (It began with a lie) [3] shows the proof that so called "Operation Potkovica" was made by German Verteidigungsministerium. Dokumentary shows the proofs how this "Operation" was made with false proofs (vilage Randubrava and vilage Sanhovici or Petershtika).
Same movie [4] Heinz Loquai: (rough translation) "I ask for a meeting in Defence Ministerium, which took place in November, and there was said to me that there was no "Operation Horseshoe..."
Heinz Loquai was german general that worked in OSCE in Vien during the war and he his job was to prepare peace missions of OSCE. He worked on place where he should be first to know for some Operation plan Horseshoe - he was a direct witness to events.
He said in show Panorama of German main state TV ARD: [5] "Diese Grafiken sind entstanden im deutschen Verteidigungsministerium, das hat man mir jedenfalls gesagt."
translation: "This diagrams (of Operation Horseshoe) were made in German Defence Ministery, that was told to me."
Today all what Yugoslav army did in Kosovo war is not secret becouse:
There are a lot of writers and publicist who are accusing German goverment of that time and who are saying that this "operation" was a false operation but this here are people who really work with this topic or they were closed to know what realy happend. Today many publicist just say that there was this operation without to go deep in this topic. -- Alexmilt ( talk) 15:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Was not this war religiously motivated? I thought that the ethnic peculiarity of the "to be cleansed" group was religion. Would someone clarify that, please, and if I am correct indicate the religion of the involved groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.129.241 ( talk) 01:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The operation clearly taret civillians with the objective of wiping out the Albanian-speaking population from Kosovo. It was, in fact, a TERROR OPERATION made by the dictatorship of Slobodan Milosevic. NATO intervened to stop this terror.-- 189.33.173.42 ( talk) 15:37, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
OK, sources told us that Bulgaria invented the plan, that was NOT EXISTING, and send it to Germany as "truth" find by their Military intelligence.
Please, dont remove POV tag, as this article should be fixed, even if we fix this subject. -- WhiteWriter speaks 13:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
(unindent)There is no wp:silence and if WW can't provide a source except for the Serbian (state) media Tanjug both the POV and the alleged part will be removed within a week. This began as a dispute between WW and bobrayner, an IP from Serbia that has been blocked since then intervened i.e if no RS is provided within a week for the alleged label, I'll revert back to bobrayner's stable version. In fact most of the content WW has been reverting isn't even in the sources as quoted above. Btw if WW continues to attribute to Nejski comments that she has never made I'll ask for immediate admin intervention as it isn't just source misrepresentation but also BLP violation. -- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:19, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Brazda-Stenkovac refugee camp.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 12 March 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Brazda-Stenkovac refugee camp.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:43, 19 March 2012 (UTC) |
An image used in this article,
File:Kosovo refugees in Macedonia 1999.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 1 May 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Kosovo refugees in Macedonia 1999.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:00, 2 May 2012 (UTC) |
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:15, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
The topic of this article is controversial and should probably be put under some kind of probation which I believe would reduce a possibility for continuation of the disruption (like using edit lines to refer to other editors' work as "crap" ( diff)).-- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 08:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Here we come Serb propaganda again… the majority of these little numbers point to texts written by marginal, far-left-wing publications in the Western World or Serbian sources. It seems like someone has to appease the souls of Milosevic and Arkan in Hell.
In the same paragraph, we see the world “pretext for NATO”, comparing the attitude of the Western military alliance to Nazi Germany in the Gleiwitz incident…-- 179.153.193.237 ( talk) 13:46, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
How a site like this can be a kind of source at all ( http://www.spectrezine.org/war/kosovo.html)? How it can be a source even for a word of "alleged"? It's totally biased far-left anti-Western propaganda. -- Smörre ( talk) 01:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Operation Horseshoe. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:07, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Operation Horseshoe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:52, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Whilst many sources corroborate that Bulgaria supplied intelligence to Germany, and thus NATO, regarding 'horseshoe', none of the sources corroborate that Bulgaria gave the name, some explicitly refer to Germany giving the name, and several (eg Gdn), say that Bulgaria was not the only source at NATO's disposal for their conviction that such a plan existed. Pincrete ( talk) 15:45, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Yugoslav Army military response to KLA attacks culminated in Operation Horseshoe directed not only against KLA fighters but also including systematic expulsions of Kosovar civilians. [2] During the armed conflict in 1998 Yugoslav Army and Serbian police used excessive and random force, which resulted in property damage, displacement of population and death of civilians [3]
Some who? date Operation Horseshoe's effective beginning to the summer of 1998, when hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians were driven from their homes. [4]
Withdrawal of Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe monitors, together with the start of NATO's bombing campaign, encouraged Milošević to implement this "orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan". [5] On 20 March 1999, the Serbian offensive, known as Operation Horseshoe, was already in motion. [6] [7]
If it comes to the NATO bombing, if it comes to the American aggression, we Serbs will quite suffer, but the Albanians in Kosovo will be no more. [8]
— Vojislav Šešelj, Yugoslavia Deputy Prime Minister
Firstly, the bolded sentence does not have anything to do with "Operations before NATO intervention". Quite the opposite, it refers to the start of NATO bombing and "Milošević's plan" as a consequence. Secondly, "NATO intervention" should be referred to as "NATO bombing", as in the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia wiki page. In particular, the bombing of Kosovo is highly correlated with the displacement of people, and this is never commented on in this page. Thirdly, the plan is only alleged, and no proof of its existence was shown (from what I understood from this article), as noted in the beginning of the page, even though this is completely disregarded throughout the page.
Finally, this wiki article is a complete mess, and I do not understand why is it allowed. It goes completely against Wikipedia standards, and should be completely re-written, specially when it comes to polarising subjects, such as recent wars.
Withdrawal of Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe monitors, together with the start of NATO's bombing campaign, encouraged Milošević to implement this "orchestrated elements to the campaign of expulsions, which could be described as a plan"because it doesn't fit under "Operations before NATO intervention." Third, I agree that no proof of the existence of Operation Horseshoe has been shown in the article; although for WP:NPOV reasons, I have kept the citations from authors that take as given the existence of Operation Horseshoe. SchuttenbachPercival ( talk) 23:34, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
References
In this edit, I deleted the following:
Claims that the plan was being implemented were NATO's justification for their bombing of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. [1] Human Rights Watch said that in early 1999, the Yugoslav army and the Serbian police "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province. [2]
My reasoning is that
SchuttenbachPercival ( talk) 04:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Media reports later claimed that the Austrian government had warned NATO before the bombing that a large-scale Serbian offensive was in preparation. The allegation was repeated two weeks into the bombing by the German government, which said that Operation Horseshoe-a plan to expel Albanians from Kosovo-had been drafted six months prior to the air war.82 A retired brigadier general in the German Army, however, later stated that the claims of a plan were faked from a vague intelligence report in order to deflect growing criticism in Germany of the bombing.83 [3]
It is debated whether or not the plan existed and whether it was enacted by Serbian forces. However, during the Kosovo War, Serbian forces expelled 848,000–863,000 Kosovo Albanians and caused the displacement of up to 590,000 Albanians within Kosovo. I removed the text as none of the sources actually mention "Operation Horseshoe". As the sources do not mention "Operation Horseshoe", it is thus very easy to fall into the WP:OR trap. A discussion should occur on where the content should be moved to possibly War crimes in the Kosovo War if it already isn't covered? ElderZamzam ( talk) 00:54, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
'