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Oliver North is now also implicated along with the CIA in the killing of Portuguese Prime Minister Sá Carneiro. On 8 April 2012, José Esteves received from Fernando Farinha Simões an 18 page confession which asserts that the CIA and Oliver North were behind the plot to place the bomb on the plane. Because Adelino Amaro da Costa was about to denounce the covert CIA drug and gun trade that was secretly passing through Portugal he was targeted and so was Sá Carneiro because he was anti-US. The covert operation lasted for years with Oliver North's involvement. [1] Colon-el-Nuevo ( talk) 20:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I found this PR release which states, "His latest [book], 'Heroes Proved' is a gripping tale of intrigue and duplicity at the highest levels of the U.S. government." Currently, the article states his latest book is American Heroes. --anon. 71.183.133.71 ( talk) 20:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
This article indicates that Lt. Col. North died on 20 February. I've just seen him on the news with live commentary, Sunday, 23 February. I've looked for other indications of his demise and I see nothing. Gnerphk ( talk) 22:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Oliver North was a prominent reference in an American Dad episode where Stan Smith bought Oliver North's house and digs up his yard to find his gold. Can we get a blip about that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.31.113.26 ( talk) 16:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
How is the word treason not mentioned once on a page about a man who sold arms to our enemies and used the proceeds to fund terrorism? Especially after he had been directly ordered not to do this by congress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.57.9.142 ( talk) 13:38, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
As Oliver North was a chief authority in managing the Contras, the article should do more than just mention the Boland Amendment in passing. We need more background for such a multifaceted issue as Iran-Contra: for instance why was the Boland Amendment passed? Because of the nature of the Contras battle strategy -- specifically, terrorism and the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians (as nearly all human rights reports from the era confirm)... North was an avid supporter of these tactics, famously earning him the name "Blood and Guts." I'll look up some good, credible quotes from a reputable source such as Americas Watch, and include them. HR groups like that are reliable sources so I'll refrain from quoting the Sandinistas.
Also, the drug trafficking issue is interesting, but also tends to get sensationalized and people should be able to find some more specific info here for the sake of clarity. For instance, in all likelihood, North was more of an enabler for the drug traffickers, rather than a direct participant on drug trafficking. This is not immediately clear from the article. Perhaps we could mention the leak of North's notebooks which very much illuminate the issue -- such as the part in his notebooks where he says "Honduran DC-6 which is being used for runs out of New Orleans is probably being used for drug runs into U.S." This corroborates the general thesis of the Kerry report: specifically, that although North was clearly a crucial enabler for the traffickers, he was almost certainly not a participant in their trafficking activities and there is no evidence he derived any personal benefit from them. The declassified documents collected at the National Security Archive are good primary sources for this, as is the Kerry report. 100.37.244.200 ( talk) 17:35, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
There's a whole article about that. Whoever decided to have the first paragraph dedicated to the Iran Contra scandal instead of, you know, the VERY INDIVIDUAL THIS PAGE IS ABOUT should be banned and have 100% of their input on this site removed. If I want to read about Contra, I can do so by checking the very page that its first mention is linked to. Ruining this article for political reasons is ignorant, annoying, and downright treasonous. Fix this now so I don't have to log in and do it for you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.7.217.138 ( talk) 06:34, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of pro-North bias in this article. For example, how relevant is that his opponent received "only" 46%? "Only" reveals a judgment that should be left to the reader. I've noticed several other parts with similarly slanted language, but am on my phone so can't fix / make a more comprehensive list. 209.6.219.106 ( talk) 02:31, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Per WP:BLPREMOVE, I have removed the section titled "Allegations of involvement with drug traffickers" from the article and posted it here for further discussion:
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
In a WP:BLP it is crucial that all material, particularly WP:REDFLAG claims like the above, are addressed appropriately. The first citation is a cherry-picked section from an appendix in the Kerry Committee report. It does not support either of the first two sentences that precede it. ( WP:BLPPRIMARY and WP:CHERRY are relevant, although the second is less so since the citation doesn't even support the statement.) The second citation is to a claim in Gary Webb's Dark Alliance whose major claims were rejected by DoJ and House investigations. Primary source claims of this nature are insufficient per WP:REDFLAG. The third citation is primary source material from the aforementioned DoJ report; it doesn't mention North. Furthermore, the absence of the DoJ's conclusion at the bottom of the document (i.e. "The OIG has found no evidence whatsoever that the government's efforts to ensure a lower sentence for Blandon were based on anything other than its assessment of his cooperation. There is no evidence of any intervention by the CIA or any intelligence agency. Nor is there any evidence that Blandon received special consideration because of any affiliation with the Contras.") is why we don't allow cherry-picking.
I do not object to the mention of these allegations towards North, however, whatever is written needs to start with whatever coverage appears in multiple reliable secondary sources. - Location ( talk) 16:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
References
Why does the very top of the article refer to North as a convicted felon first and foremost, but later on it states that, "However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[28] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony...Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991."
If his convictions are vacated and reversed, and all charges dismissed, then he isn't a convicted felon. I'm not a huge North fan, but this wiki entry is for a living person who happens to be a decorated veteran and it should be accurate. I updated it for the sake of accuracy. Tpkatsa ( talk) 17:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
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Some enlightening additional sources on the “assassination plot” North mentioned in his exclusive Cigar Aficionado interview:
First, on July 22 of 1988, in the Post:
A week later the AP reports that eight men, including the aforementioned alleged plotter, were indicted for financial crimes, but it prominently states “The 40-count indictment did not make any mention of previous accusations that one of the defendants, Mousa Hawamda, took part in a plot to assassinate a senior U.S. official. The target of the alleged plot has been identified as Oliver North, who helped plan the 1986 aerial bombing of Libya.”.
And then in Time (paywalled, but this part is before the jump):
Would try to work this in myself, but the article is protected at the moment.
OrderOfNineNagles ( talk) 04:45, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Footnote 17 links to an article that DOES NOT in any way relate to the sentence it follows.
In multiple places this article incorrectly implies that the charges against North were found to be incorrect. The only time any of these claims actually have a source is footnote 17, which links to an article that never says this. If you want people to trust Wikipedia you cannot allow propaganda like this page.
It makes Wikipedia look like a joke. I am appalled. NateDyer ( talk) 18:36, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Whether North was aiding the Khomeini regime or the Pahlavi regime is pertinent information, and helpful to readers. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 18:57, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Recent edit labels North 'former drug smuggler', looks like straightforward BLP violation, deleted. Please discuss here before reinstating. Rgr09 ( talk) 02:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I assume the fact that the page is locked is somehow related to the lack of mention in the first paragraph of the main thing the subject of the article is known for, ie his involvement in the Iran-Contra Affair? 2A00:23C5:1203:CE01:5538:E689:294C:D34E ( talk) 12:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I am not saying this is wrong but I don't think this would be an email as we generally understand it in 2021. The internet and emails as we know them came out around 1991. Does this need clarification in the main script? 188.221.24.17 ( talk) 18:33, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
I have ordered and received two copies of this book and both have been misprinted. Please advise. 23.119.184.26 ( talk) 01:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Oliver North is now also implicated along with the CIA in the killing of Portuguese Prime Minister Sá Carneiro. On 8 April 2012, José Esteves received from Fernando Farinha Simões an 18 page confession which asserts that the CIA and Oliver North were behind the plot to place the bomb on the plane. Because Adelino Amaro da Costa was about to denounce the covert CIA drug and gun trade that was secretly passing through Portugal he was targeted and so was Sá Carneiro because he was anti-US. The covert operation lasted for years with Oliver North's involvement. [1] Colon-el-Nuevo ( talk) 20:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I found this PR release which states, "His latest [book], 'Heroes Proved' is a gripping tale of intrigue and duplicity at the highest levels of the U.S. government." Currently, the article states his latest book is American Heroes. --anon. 71.183.133.71 ( talk) 20:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
This article indicates that Lt. Col. North died on 20 February. I've just seen him on the news with live commentary, Sunday, 23 February. I've looked for other indications of his demise and I see nothing. Gnerphk ( talk) 22:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Oliver North was a prominent reference in an American Dad episode where Stan Smith bought Oliver North's house and digs up his yard to find his gold. Can we get a blip about that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.31.113.26 ( talk) 16:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
How is the word treason not mentioned once on a page about a man who sold arms to our enemies and used the proceeds to fund terrorism? Especially after he had been directly ordered not to do this by congress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.57.9.142 ( talk) 13:38, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
As Oliver North was a chief authority in managing the Contras, the article should do more than just mention the Boland Amendment in passing. We need more background for such a multifaceted issue as Iran-Contra: for instance why was the Boland Amendment passed? Because of the nature of the Contras battle strategy -- specifically, terrorism and the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians (as nearly all human rights reports from the era confirm)... North was an avid supporter of these tactics, famously earning him the name "Blood and Guts." I'll look up some good, credible quotes from a reputable source such as Americas Watch, and include them. HR groups like that are reliable sources so I'll refrain from quoting the Sandinistas.
Also, the drug trafficking issue is interesting, but also tends to get sensationalized and people should be able to find some more specific info here for the sake of clarity. For instance, in all likelihood, North was more of an enabler for the drug traffickers, rather than a direct participant on drug trafficking. This is not immediately clear from the article. Perhaps we could mention the leak of North's notebooks which very much illuminate the issue -- such as the part in his notebooks where he says "Honduran DC-6 which is being used for runs out of New Orleans is probably being used for drug runs into U.S." This corroborates the general thesis of the Kerry report: specifically, that although North was clearly a crucial enabler for the traffickers, he was almost certainly not a participant in their trafficking activities and there is no evidence he derived any personal benefit from them. The declassified documents collected at the National Security Archive are good primary sources for this, as is the Kerry report. 100.37.244.200 ( talk) 17:35, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
There's a whole article about that. Whoever decided to have the first paragraph dedicated to the Iran Contra scandal instead of, you know, the VERY INDIVIDUAL THIS PAGE IS ABOUT should be banned and have 100% of their input on this site removed. If I want to read about Contra, I can do so by checking the very page that its first mention is linked to. Ruining this article for political reasons is ignorant, annoying, and downright treasonous. Fix this now so I don't have to log in and do it for you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.7.217.138 ( talk) 06:34, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of pro-North bias in this article. For example, how relevant is that his opponent received "only" 46%? "Only" reveals a judgment that should be left to the reader. I've noticed several other parts with similarly slanted language, but am on my phone so can't fix / make a more comprehensive list. 209.6.219.106 ( talk) 02:31, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Per WP:BLPREMOVE, I have removed the section titled "Allegations of involvement with drug traffickers" from the article and posted it here for further discussion:
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
In a WP:BLP it is crucial that all material, particularly WP:REDFLAG claims like the above, are addressed appropriately. The first citation is a cherry-picked section from an appendix in the Kerry Committee report. It does not support either of the first two sentences that precede it. ( WP:BLPPRIMARY and WP:CHERRY are relevant, although the second is less so since the citation doesn't even support the statement.) The second citation is to a claim in Gary Webb's Dark Alliance whose major claims were rejected by DoJ and House investigations. Primary source claims of this nature are insufficient per WP:REDFLAG. The third citation is primary source material from the aforementioned DoJ report; it doesn't mention North. Furthermore, the absence of the DoJ's conclusion at the bottom of the document (i.e. "The OIG has found no evidence whatsoever that the government's efforts to ensure a lower sentence for Blandon were based on anything other than its assessment of his cooperation. There is no evidence of any intervention by the CIA or any intelligence agency. Nor is there any evidence that Blandon received special consideration because of any affiliation with the Contras.") is why we don't allow cherry-picking.
I do not object to the mention of these allegations towards North, however, whatever is written needs to start with whatever coverage appears in multiple reliable secondary sources. - Location ( talk) 16:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
References
Why does the very top of the article refer to North as a convicted felon first and foremost, but later on it states that, "However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[28] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony...Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991."
If his convictions are vacated and reversed, and all charges dismissed, then he isn't a convicted felon. I'm not a huge North fan, but this wiki entry is for a living person who happens to be a decorated veteran and it should be accurate. I updated it for the sake of accuracy. Tpkatsa ( talk) 17:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:11, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Some enlightening additional sources on the “assassination plot” North mentioned in his exclusive Cigar Aficionado interview:
First, on July 22 of 1988, in the Post:
A week later the AP reports that eight men, including the aforementioned alleged plotter, were indicted for financial crimes, but it prominently states “The 40-count indictment did not make any mention of previous accusations that one of the defendants, Mousa Hawamda, took part in a plot to assassinate a senior U.S. official. The target of the alleged plot has been identified as Oliver North, who helped plan the 1986 aerial bombing of Libya.”.
And then in Time (paywalled, but this part is before the jump):
Would try to work this in myself, but the article is protected at the moment.
OrderOfNineNagles ( talk) 04:45, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Footnote 17 links to an article that DOES NOT in any way relate to the sentence it follows.
In multiple places this article incorrectly implies that the charges against North were found to be incorrect. The only time any of these claims actually have a source is footnote 17, which links to an article that never says this. If you want people to trust Wikipedia you cannot allow propaganda like this page.
It makes Wikipedia look like a joke. I am appalled. NateDyer ( talk) 18:36, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Whether North was aiding the Khomeini regime or the Pahlavi regime is pertinent information, and helpful to readers. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 18:57, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Recent edit labels North 'former drug smuggler', looks like straightforward BLP violation, deleted. Please discuss here before reinstating. Rgr09 ( talk) 02:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I assume the fact that the page is locked is somehow related to the lack of mention in the first paragraph of the main thing the subject of the article is known for, ie his involvement in the Iran-Contra Affair? 2A00:23C5:1203:CE01:5538:E689:294C:D34E ( talk) 12:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I am not saying this is wrong but I don't think this would be an email as we generally understand it in 2021. The internet and emails as we know them came out around 1991. Does this need clarification in the main script? 188.221.24.17 ( talk) 18:33, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
I have ordered and received two copies of this book and both have been misprinted. Please advise. 23.119.184.26 ( talk) 01:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)