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This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Castellano antiguo from the Spanish Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. |
That is understandable - some of the grammar, for instance, resembles French (i.e., the usage of "ser" similar to "être" in French vis-à-vis the similarity between the conjugation of the past tenses in Old Spanish and the passé composé in Modern Standard French), which is my second language. -- 64.222.62.131 ( talk) 16:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed a little problem between the Latin and Spanish. The translations are not exactly literal, maybe they're not meant to be, but I thought I'd point it out...When it says:
et, non, nos, hic e, et; non, no; nós; í y, e; no; nosotros; ahí
I'm not sure that's quite correct. "Et" means "y," which is right, and "non" means "no," while "nos" means "nosotros/as." But "hic" actually means "esto," not "alli." "Alli" means "there" in Spanish. But "hic" means "this" in English and Spanish. The Spanish equivalent is "esto" in the masculine--remember "hic, haec, hoc..." (singular). But I think you are right that "hic" can point out "alli" as in Spanish, but I think its main usage is as "esto/a," this...or this man, woman, thing, etc.
Also:
stabat; habui, habebat; facere, fecisti estava; ove, avié; far/fer/fazer, fezist(e)/fizist(e) estaba; hube, había; hacer, hiciste
...is not quite right either. "Stabat" means "was standing" or "was remaining" in English and "estava parado/a" in Spanish, not just "estava." "Habui" means "I had" which is more like "tenia" than "habia" in Spanish.
They're just small things I noticed. Take them with as much salt as you wish. You know more than I do!
I want to know more about the transition between Latin, Old Spanish, and Spanish, so feel free to expand the article. It's a little short and unelaborated as it stands (though I like it).
70.72.45.131 ( talk) 00:45, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
The word hondo in modern Spanish means deep. Fondo most commonly means bottom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.170.198.158 ( talk) 02:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
It is claimed that /b/ and /v/ remained distinct phonemes in the medieval period. Is there any orthographic evidence as to when they merged, presuming that this change was generalized during the later medieval period? Most importantly, considering that this distinction was maintained, is there anything on when fricative/approximate intervocalic allophones of /d, g/ developed? This is universal in all dialects, so we'd suppose this had occurred by the Early Modern period.
Iotacist ( talk) 00:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)Iotacist
I don't recall reading anywhere that Old Spanish had the phonemes /kʷ/ or /gʷ/. Can anyone comment? -- Jotamar ( talk) 23:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)-- Jotamar ( talk) 23:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Does anyone know the rules on how to use cedilla, 'ç' in Old Spanish. I thought it was the equivalent of modern Spanish z before an a, u, and o. For example modern day Spanish for apple is manzana while in Old Spanish it's maçana. But heavens, cielos, is written as çielos in El Cid. JamesCook1728 ( talk) 13:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @ Mr. Information1409.
The oldest attestation of Spanish that I am aware of is the tenth-century Nodicia de kesos. Even that could be challenged on the grounds that it is rather Leonese, but nevermind that. I am not aware of a ninth-century attestation; could you name the document in question?
- Nicodene ( talk) 14:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Castellano antiguo from the Spanish Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. |
That is understandable - some of the grammar, for instance, resembles French (i.e., the usage of "ser" similar to "être" in French vis-à-vis the similarity between the conjugation of the past tenses in Old Spanish and the passé composé in Modern Standard French), which is my second language. -- 64.222.62.131 ( talk) 16:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed a little problem between the Latin and Spanish. The translations are not exactly literal, maybe they're not meant to be, but I thought I'd point it out...When it says:
et, non, nos, hic e, et; non, no; nós; í y, e; no; nosotros; ahí
I'm not sure that's quite correct. "Et" means "y," which is right, and "non" means "no," while "nos" means "nosotros/as." But "hic" actually means "esto," not "alli." "Alli" means "there" in Spanish. But "hic" means "this" in English and Spanish. The Spanish equivalent is "esto" in the masculine--remember "hic, haec, hoc..." (singular). But I think you are right that "hic" can point out "alli" as in Spanish, but I think its main usage is as "esto/a," this...or this man, woman, thing, etc.
Also:
stabat; habui, habebat; facere, fecisti estava; ove, avié; far/fer/fazer, fezist(e)/fizist(e) estaba; hube, había; hacer, hiciste
...is not quite right either. "Stabat" means "was standing" or "was remaining" in English and "estava parado/a" in Spanish, not just "estava." "Habui" means "I had" which is more like "tenia" than "habia" in Spanish.
They're just small things I noticed. Take them with as much salt as you wish. You know more than I do!
I want to know more about the transition between Latin, Old Spanish, and Spanish, so feel free to expand the article. It's a little short and unelaborated as it stands (though I like it).
70.72.45.131 ( talk) 00:45, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
The word hondo in modern Spanish means deep. Fondo most commonly means bottom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.170.198.158 ( talk) 02:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
It is claimed that /b/ and /v/ remained distinct phonemes in the medieval period. Is there any orthographic evidence as to when they merged, presuming that this change was generalized during the later medieval period? Most importantly, considering that this distinction was maintained, is there anything on when fricative/approximate intervocalic allophones of /d, g/ developed? This is universal in all dialects, so we'd suppose this had occurred by the Early Modern period.
Iotacist ( talk) 00:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)Iotacist
I don't recall reading anywhere that Old Spanish had the phonemes /kʷ/ or /gʷ/. Can anyone comment? -- Jotamar ( talk) 23:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)-- Jotamar ( talk) 23:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Does anyone know the rules on how to use cedilla, 'ç' in Old Spanish. I thought it was the equivalent of modern Spanish z before an a, u, and o. For example modern day Spanish for apple is manzana while in Old Spanish it's maçana. But heavens, cielos, is written as çielos in El Cid. JamesCook1728 ( talk) 13:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @ Mr. Information1409.
The oldest attestation of Spanish that I am aware of is the tenth-century Nodicia de kesos. Even that could be challenged on the grounds that it is rather Leonese, but nevermind that. I am not aware of a ninth-century attestation; could you name the document in question?
- Nicodene ( talk) 14:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)