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I propose that we merge a lot of the separate articles on Abhorsen Trilogy-related articles into a few concise articles. They are not independantly notable, and can be adequately covered in concise sections on appropriate major articles. My proposal is thus:
I'll post a link to this discussion on the talk pages of the above articles. seresin | wasn't he just...? 00:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Erm, in the book, I believe that it was mentioned there were Male Clayr, but that they were rare. Can anyone go through Lirael and find it? 207.14.79.72 ( talk) 22:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
None of the sections were irrelevant enough to the plot to be trimmed, especially to that level. I move to re-seperate some of the more important pages from Google cache, such as Death, the Bright Shiners, and the main charecters. Little to no information is currently available about specific details, and a single "Old Kingdom" page with details would be too long. Link hyrule5 ( talk) 02:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
In the books, the bells had little "sub-names," and I think they should be listed. I don't recall them all rightoff, but I think it was something like... Ranna/Sleeper, Mosrael/Waker, Kibeth/Walker, Dyrim/Speaker, Saraneth/Binder, and Astarael/Weeper. I don't remember the short name for Belgaer, and I may be off on Dyrim. Which is why I think they should be added to the article. Meichigo ( talk) 07:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[quote] ...Garth Nix has recently signed a reported seven figure deal for three new titles, with two being additions to the Old Kingdom series, a prequel and a sequel; the first, which has the working title Clariel: The Lost Abhorsen,[1] will appear in 2010 and 2011...
Okay. I visited the blog and the third book doesn't have anything to do with the Old Kingdom (it's called Confusion of Princes?). Does anyone want to re-word that part? Does anyone have any problems with me re-wording that part?
And: Where does it say something about a "seven-figure deal?" I didn't see anything like that when I visited the reference.
Bludie ( talk) 07:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
The executioner in Measure for Measure is named Abhorson. The "motley fool" in As You Like It is named Touchstone. I highly doubt this is a coincidence. 130.215.204.105 ( talk) 17:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Might it be reasonable to add in content from the short story relating to the Old Kingdom in "Across the Wall"? I suppose it deals more with Ancelstierre than with the Old Kingdom, but this article is dealing with the universe and setting in general, no?
Chansebout ( talk) 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I have taken a bold move in moving the article from Old Kingdom Trilogy to Old Kingdom series due to the upcoming additional books to the series. I think this is also more appropriate since many internal links from other related articles already direct to "Old Kingdom series". Since this is a major change, I will let others add input into what the appropriate title of the article should be before making changes to the links in other articles. -- Tea with toast ( talk) 17:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
The magic section appears to have various issues.
It seems like it would be best for it to be moved to a separate article along the lines of "Magic in the Old Kingdom".
Just reading through this article there are a few sections that really stand out as quite odd.
The Charter and Free Magic: -This seems like it would be better if separated into two sections dealing with the types of magic separately. -The statement that some free magic exists in service of the charter has been edited out.
Beastiary: -States there are four types of supernatural but lists five. -Separates Mordicant into a separate group from Dead but also states that they are a kind of dead. Given that greater and lesser dead are grouped, Mordicants make sense in this grouping. -Constructs seem like they should either be grouped with free magic, free magic elementals or removed. they are specified as type of free magic and not actual creatures so it seems peculiar to have them listed in a bestiary.
The Bells: -The statement that the bells "prefer to sound in service of the Charter, and will actively resist necromancer" sounds very incorrect given the fact that the books refer to the bells being dangerous to Necromancers AND the Abhorsen.
The Nine Brightshiners: -The seven who created the charter were not referenced to as the Seven Bright Shiners. -The statement "it is almost certain that Saraneth and Ranna invested themselves in the Abhorsen bloodline" is pure conjecture. Lirael is the daughter of an Abhorsen and a Clayr, this is a large part of the plot and as such it seems more likely that the quote this statement is based on is just another reference to this fact. It also ignores the later section "Aborsens" which implies that the Aborsen bloodline began with Astarael(which should also be looked at). This looks like it was edited 25 April 2010, with both the current and previous versions showin conjecture with little fact behind their statements.
Death: -The Ninth gate cannot be resisted, if one looks at the gate and it is their time then they will go through. Hedge only avoided the gate because he did not look at it, the moment he did he was called through it.
Wikidmage ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
This hour I have rewritten the lead section primarily by reference to ISFDB. (a source that is very slow to arrive here). It is The lead is now shorter, and it is clear about the names of the series, but the parenthetical dates are ugly and may be more than necessary.
At the same time I have relegated all details and most mentions of the short fiction and forthcoming novels to section "Series", in retitled section 1.4 and new sections 1.5 to 1.7.
-- P64 ( talk) 23:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Is the boarding school setting important in this series? -- P64 ( talk) 23:42, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Category: Old Kingdom series, that's a good name. Here are its contents:
The variation is a little surprising. The fantasy series isn't strictly limited to books, and "series" (always small 's') is rarely necessary.
Old Kingdom without disambiguation redirects to O.E. of Egypt, which seems appropriate.
The Old Kingdom redirects here. That seems to me a good name for the article, as ISFDB names the series The Old Kingdom /Abhorsen, which suggests The Old Kingdom in Britain and Abhorsen in America. Other candidate names, I suppose, are " Old Kingdom series" which now redirects here and " The Old Kingdom series" which is the Nix biography section heading.
The word "series" (always small 's') doesn't need to be used in page names. Compare Shasta (Narnia); Shift (Narnia); Tash (Narnia); Underland (Narnia); also Category:The Chronicles of Narnia books.
Last hour I deleted "series" from four group names in navigational box {{ Garth Nix}}, and removed italics because the articles do not treat the series names as titles (unlike The Chronicles of Narnia).
Editors should consider similar renames for all Nix articles, at latest when he continues the series and these articles get more attention again. -- P64 ( talk) 22:00, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
In the section on The Nine Bright Shiners, it is suggested that the Third Precinct is Yrael's and the Ninth belongs to Orannis. Not only is this speculation, but the mapping between Ninth Precinct and Orannis doesn't make any sense, and is not based on the extract from the Journal of Idrach on the website – all the website mentions is that there is no bell for the Third Precinct. (IMO, it would make more sense for Orannis to have the Eighth, since it's full of fire, and Nine seems to match with Astarael, but that's pure speculation.) If anyone has a source for the Third->Yrael and Ninth->Orannis assertion, I'd love to see it added back into the article, but without one, it can't stay. anowlcalledjosh 🦉 ( talk) please ping in replies 22:03, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Under the description of the greater dead Chlorr of the Mask is referred to as a past Abhorsen. I am pretty sure this is incorrect, if not please add that side note back into the article. Jacquelynqs ( talk) 07:44, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I propose that we merge a lot of the separate articles on Abhorsen Trilogy-related articles into a few concise articles. They are not independantly notable, and can be adequately covered in concise sections on appropriate major articles. My proposal is thus:
I'll post a link to this discussion on the talk pages of the above articles. seresin | wasn't he just...? 00:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Erm, in the book, I believe that it was mentioned there were Male Clayr, but that they were rare. Can anyone go through Lirael and find it? 207.14.79.72 ( talk) 22:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
None of the sections were irrelevant enough to the plot to be trimmed, especially to that level. I move to re-seperate some of the more important pages from Google cache, such as Death, the Bright Shiners, and the main charecters. Little to no information is currently available about specific details, and a single "Old Kingdom" page with details would be too long. Link hyrule5 ( talk) 02:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
In the books, the bells had little "sub-names," and I think they should be listed. I don't recall them all rightoff, but I think it was something like... Ranna/Sleeper, Mosrael/Waker, Kibeth/Walker, Dyrim/Speaker, Saraneth/Binder, and Astarael/Weeper. I don't remember the short name for Belgaer, and I may be off on Dyrim. Which is why I think they should be added to the article. Meichigo ( talk) 07:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[quote] ...Garth Nix has recently signed a reported seven figure deal for three new titles, with two being additions to the Old Kingdom series, a prequel and a sequel; the first, which has the working title Clariel: The Lost Abhorsen,[1] will appear in 2010 and 2011...
Okay. I visited the blog and the third book doesn't have anything to do with the Old Kingdom (it's called Confusion of Princes?). Does anyone want to re-word that part? Does anyone have any problems with me re-wording that part?
And: Where does it say something about a "seven-figure deal?" I didn't see anything like that when I visited the reference.
Bludie ( talk) 07:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
The executioner in Measure for Measure is named Abhorson. The "motley fool" in As You Like It is named Touchstone. I highly doubt this is a coincidence. 130.215.204.105 ( talk) 17:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Might it be reasonable to add in content from the short story relating to the Old Kingdom in "Across the Wall"? I suppose it deals more with Ancelstierre than with the Old Kingdom, but this article is dealing with the universe and setting in general, no?
Chansebout ( talk) 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I have taken a bold move in moving the article from Old Kingdom Trilogy to Old Kingdom series due to the upcoming additional books to the series. I think this is also more appropriate since many internal links from other related articles already direct to "Old Kingdom series". Since this is a major change, I will let others add input into what the appropriate title of the article should be before making changes to the links in other articles. -- Tea with toast ( talk) 17:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
The magic section appears to have various issues.
It seems like it would be best for it to be moved to a separate article along the lines of "Magic in the Old Kingdom".
Just reading through this article there are a few sections that really stand out as quite odd.
The Charter and Free Magic: -This seems like it would be better if separated into two sections dealing with the types of magic separately. -The statement that some free magic exists in service of the charter has been edited out.
Beastiary: -States there are four types of supernatural but lists five. -Separates Mordicant into a separate group from Dead but also states that they are a kind of dead. Given that greater and lesser dead are grouped, Mordicants make sense in this grouping. -Constructs seem like they should either be grouped with free magic, free magic elementals or removed. they are specified as type of free magic and not actual creatures so it seems peculiar to have them listed in a bestiary.
The Bells: -The statement that the bells "prefer to sound in service of the Charter, and will actively resist necromancer" sounds very incorrect given the fact that the books refer to the bells being dangerous to Necromancers AND the Abhorsen.
The Nine Brightshiners: -The seven who created the charter were not referenced to as the Seven Bright Shiners. -The statement "it is almost certain that Saraneth and Ranna invested themselves in the Abhorsen bloodline" is pure conjecture. Lirael is the daughter of an Abhorsen and a Clayr, this is a large part of the plot and as such it seems more likely that the quote this statement is based on is just another reference to this fact. It also ignores the later section "Aborsens" which implies that the Aborsen bloodline began with Astarael(which should also be looked at). This looks like it was edited 25 April 2010, with both the current and previous versions showin conjecture with little fact behind their statements.
Death: -The Ninth gate cannot be resisted, if one looks at the gate and it is their time then they will go through. Hedge only avoided the gate because he did not look at it, the moment he did he was called through it.
Wikidmage ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
This hour I have rewritten the lead section primarily by reference to ISFDB. (a source that is very slow to arrive here). It is The lead is now shorter, and it is clear about the names of the series, but the parenthetical dates are ugly and may be more than necessary.
At the same time I have relegated all details and most mentions of the short fiction and forthcoming novels to section "Series", in retitled section 1.4 and new sections 1.5 to 1.7.
-- P64 ( talk) 23:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Is the boarding school setting important in this series? -- P64 ( talk) 23:42, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Category: Old Kingdom series, that's a good name. Here are its contents:
The variation is a little surprising. The fantasy series isn't strictly limited to books, and "series" (always small 's') is rarely necessary.
Old Kingdom without disambiguation redirects to O.E. of Egypt, which seems appropriate.
The Old Kingdom redirects here. That seems to me a good name for the article, as ISFDB names the series The Old Kingdom /Abhorsen, which suggests The Old Kingdom in Britain and Abhorsen in America. Other candidate names, I suppose, are " Old Kingdom series" which now redirects here and " The Old Kingdom series" which is the Nix biography section heading.
The word "series" (always small 's') doesn't need to be used in page names. Compare Shasta (Narnia); Shift (Narnia); Tash (Narnia); Underland (Narnia); also Category:The Chronicles of Narnia books.
Last hour I deleted "series" from four group names in navigational box {{ Garth Nix}}, and removed italics because the articles do not treat the series names as titles (unlike The Chronicles of Narnia).
Editors should consider similar renames for all Nix articles, at latest when he continues the series and these articles get more attention again. -- P64 ( talk) 22:00, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
In the section on The Nine Bright Shiners, it is suggested that the Third Precinct is Yrael's and the Ninth belongs to Orannis. Not only is this speculation, but the mapping between Ninth Precinct and Orannis doesn't make any sense, and is not based on the extract from the Journal of Idrach on the website – all the website mentions is that there is no bell for the Third Precinct. (IMO, it would make more sense for Orannis to have the Eighth, since it's full of fire, and Nine seems to match with Astarael, but that's pure speculation.) If anyone has a source for the Third->Yrael and Ninth->Orannis assertion, I'd love to see it added back into the article, but without one, it can't stay. anowlcalledjosh 🦉 ( talk) please ping in replies 22:03, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Under the description of the greater dead Chlorr of the Mask is referred to as a past Abhorsen. I am pretty sure this is incorrect, if not please add that side note back into the article. Jacquelynqs ( talk) 07:44, 14 January 2017 (UTC)